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Internet Responds To Racist Article, Gets Author Fired 1208

In the wake of the Trayvon Martin tragedy in February, many publications posted articles about "the talk" — a phrase denoting the conversation many black parents have at some point with their children to explain the realities of racism. Last Thursday, writer John Derbyshire penned an article titled "The Talk: Nonblack Version," which codified a similar set of lessons he had given to his children over the years. Unfortunately, those lessons turned out to be horribly racist themselves. "The remarkably long list of how to teach children to stay safe by avoiding black people goes on for two pages and Derbyshire contends is a true lifesaver. There is no irony or clarification that, perhaps, this is a joke, no matter how much you may want to find a disclaimer after you’re done reading." Reader concealment writes to point out that the internet and the media vocalized their disgust quickly and at length, and now Derbyshire has been fired from his position at the conservative National Review magazine (the offending article appeared in a different publication called Taki's Magazine).
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Internet Responds To Racist Article, Gets Author Fired

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @03:56PM (#39622167)

    When I was a kid, I had a liberal stepdad and a conservative dad. I always thought my dad was just a racist who didn't know what he was talking about. At one point we had it out and so I left my lilly-white hometown to to live with my mom and stepdad in what happened to be a predominantly black school district (which my liberal stepdad considered a great opportunity for me to learn a valuable cultural lesson). After I got a harsh lesson in anti-white racism by getting my ass kicked for about the 10th time at said school, I realized that dad may not be so stupid after all and moved back with in him. It was one of those hard lessons in life about the difference between how things *should* be and how they actually *are*. It's not that my dad wanted to teach me to be some racist cross-burner or something, he just wanted to teach me that racism cuts BOTH ways--and that walking into the wrong school/neighborhood/bar with white skin can be just as dangerous as the vice versa. And it's a lot easier to learn that lesson the easy way than the hard way, believe me.

    I like to think that maybe things have changed since I was a kid. I'm not sure, as I learned to avoid these situations altogether by keeping my dumb ass out of where I wasn't wanted.

    Of course, no one is ever going to say any of that publicly. You're more likely in the modern world to encounter the Loch Ness monster than any truly honest dialogue on race.

  • by alphatel (1450715) * on Monday April 09, 2012 @03:59PM (#39622209)
    It happens on both sides. Some black parents tell their kids to segregate themselves and establish identity. One question though: If a black scholar wrote an article on how to keep the white man's hands out of your pockets, would they also get fired?
  • The Talk (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Johnny Mnemonic (176043) <mdinsmore&gmail,com> on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:03PM (#39622263) Homepage Journal

    I wasn't aware of "The Talk" before reading about it in the summary.

    As a (white) father of two young boys, I can't imagine a harder conversation. "Remember all that talk about how you have unlimited potential? Yeah, it's all bullshit. Fight the power (but dont' get killed)."

    I can't imagine how it looks to have the hope in their eyes die in front of you.

  • Few Surprises (Score:5, Insightful)

    by American AC in Paris (230456) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:04PM (#39622269) Homepage

    Discovering that John Derbyshire is a racist is somewhat akin to discovering that the sun rises in the east. The man's been quite candid about his views for years.

    Kudos to National Review for finally discovering this fact and taking the blindingly obvious course of action, though.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:06PM (#39622289)

    Like a lot of these types of things, it's really a CLASS issue, not a race issue. There's plenty of predominantly white if not totally white neighborhoods that other white people don't go into because either the neighborhood is a lot more poor than "you," and you're in danger, or the neighborhood is too rich for you, and you'll get the cops called on you. You don't have to have a different color skin if you drive the wrong kind of car, or aren't dressed appropriately. Humans are tribal, and trival societies aren't known for their inclusive nature.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:07PM (#39622295)

    One talk says "Be careful, because racist people will treat you poorly, and bad things can happen because of it". The other one says "Be careful, because this other race is much worse than your race, so stay away from members of that race or bad things can happen. (oh but make one black friend so you don't look racist, although there's so few "good" black people that you'll have heavy competition among whites looking for a black friend)". Do you see the difference now? Seriously, that was the most racist fucking thing I've ever read. I feel dirty.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:08PM (#39622313)

    How is it "censorship" to not have someone you don't like use your business/property to broadcast their message? He's still free to get his message out using his own stuff.

  • I dunno, could be you're just an asshole.

    I'm white, but went to a predominantly black High School in a major metro. I had a few altercations, but I never had my ass kicked.

    As one of my (black) friends so eloquently put it to me: "You know when they're talking about the N*****s up at G******d, they're talking 'bout you, too."

  • intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:10PM (#39622329)

    Think of it like this, one has a long history of enslaving and oppressing the other and using technological dominance to enshrine its superiority the national conciousness. Which would you be more worried about repeating past offenses?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:10PM (#39622331)

    Here's a quote:

    "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage of my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved".

    Who said that? Oh yeah...Jesse Jackson. It's not like white people are the only ones who don't want to walk by a 6'3" black teenager in a hoodie at night. Black people don't want to walk by them as well.

  • by RandLS (637452) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:14PM (#39622363)
    This guy gets fired, Tyler Perry gets a pass for describing how his mother always taught him how to act if he got held up by white cops and then suing for discrimination basically because 2 white cops didn't know he was famous. All in the same week, and with no incredulity about the double standard. I love our media. And by love, i mean despise.
  • refutation please (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fche (36607) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:14PM (#39622367)

    "Unfortunately, those lessons turned out to be horribly racist themselves."

    Be that as it may. It would be worthwhile to provide an item-by-item refutation to the article, than simply scream "racism" and leave it at that.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:19PM (#39622425)

    ...that PEOPLE (irregardless of whether they're black, white, red, yellow, green or purple) are the problem.

  • by bbbaldie (935205) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:21PM (#39622449) Homepage
    (standing, applauding)

    Picture the following situation: a black neighborhood watch volunteer kills an unarmed white kid. Two white preachers jump into the fray and make loud declarations about the racial nature of the killing.

    They would be roasted by the media and the mainstream public as racist nutbags, true?

    So, why don't the reverends Sharpton and Jackson get the same treatment?

  • by sunking2 (521698) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:22PM (#39622463)
    He got fired because apparently enough people were upset with his views that it threatened to hit the companies bottom line. There is a subtle difference.
  • by chispito (1870390) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:22PM (#39622481)

    intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself

    Except that it is. You are saying that everyone needs to work your value of tolerance into their belief system, changing that belief system as necessary. You'll get more results if you are clearer about what you want.

  • by Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:23PM (#39622485) Journal

    I have to second that. There were a lot of problems with gang violence at my highshool. I treated everyone with dignity and respect, and they did the same to me. Only assholes got jumped.

  • Oh, it's much worse than just getting away with an article - we (the western world) allowed a terrorist organisation to take control of a country because we felt bad for what the previous regime had done to blacks in that country.

    Yes, I'm talking about the ANC.

  • by Surt (22457) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:24PM (#39622509) Homepage Journal

    Only if you believe that their representation in prison is proportional to their criminality. And if you do believe that, you have some reading to do about the justice system.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:24PM (#39622511)

    So would you say...around blacks, never relax?

    You probably deserved it. I was white kid #20/34 at a predominately black and hispanic high school and I never heard of anyone catching a beatdown for being white/black/hispanic/whatever. If you caught an asswhupping it was mostly for talking shit, or some retarded beef outside of school. I never got real shit for being white outside of some jokes.

    Anecdotes are anecdotes.

  • Re:The Talk (Score:2, Insightful)

    by CubicleZombie (2590497) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:24PM (#39622513)
    You will have to tell your kids that they must work harder to get accepted into college because they're white. (but be sure to be P.C. and say "Caucasian American".)
  • NPR is "government funded" like oil companies are "government funded". NPR is no BBC.
  • Glenn Beck effect (Score:5, Insightful)

    by saveferrousoxide (2566033) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:26PM (#39622537)
    I was right there with him until I sensed the twist in the logic right at the end of paragraph 5. Then paragraph 6 took the left turn at Albuquerque and it all when horribly wrong culminating in paragraph 15 identifying "desirable" black people as trophies for powerful/rich white people. At that point I was left open mouthed, not so much at what he said as at the fact he seemed to genuinely believe this was not a racist viewpoint because it was backed up by "facts" of some sort and qualified by "personal experience." Glenn Beck, you've met your match!
  • by localman (111171) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:26PM (#39622539) Homepage

    Actually, if you want to make broad judgements, there's a much more significant group that makes up nearly all of the prison population. This group is so ill-adjusted, they are over represented in criminal activity by a factor of nearly 20:1. This group, of course, is men.

    If you want to keep it real, you ought be a lot more concerned about why men are such fuck-ups before you worry about what color the men are.

  • Heh, you know what? I'm sat here now thinking "I shouldn't have posted that because now I'm going to get labeled as a racist..."

    Funny eh?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:26PM (#39622547)

    Culture and law has been against the black community in America for how many hundreds of years?

    How many generations were denied opportunity and a chance to rise above their parents?

    How much influence do these factors have on the education and by proxy the crime rates of the black community?

    Who created and reinforced these cultural and legal practices which helped to segregate and harm the black community?

    Jesse Jackson is lamenting about the very real consequences of the racist policies and agendas in the United States. Many of which lead to higher rates of incarceration because of broken families, lack of education, lack of job opportunities, and poor and manipulative housing conditions.

    Because you couldn't possibly believe that blacks commit more crimes because of a natural preponderance, right?

  • Re:Few Surprises (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:29PM (#39622593) Homepage

    I've never heard of him before, so I went and read the article. After a few paragraphs, I was thinking "this guy is definitely politically incorrect, but does he really deserve to be fired over this?"

    Then I read the various sub-points under 10, and yes, it was that bad.

    Then I kept reading, and it just got worse.

    Wow. It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to turn this into "A Modest Proposal" style satire. By the end, where is he talking about the relative value of "IWSB"s, I mean he is one or two steps away from saying that "IWSB"s should be bought and sold so as to provide the most value for society.

  • by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:29PM (#39622605)

    Government-funded NPR.... yeah, no. It's member-station funded for the large majority, and the member stations are funded to 60% (depending on the station) by listener contributions. Unless you have an axe to grind or are willing to delve into the details of their funding, NPR is listener-funded. As for why he was fired: I'd say he was fired for being a moronic news analyst. Not sure that him being black had anything to do with it, but Fox News definitely got some marketing and PR miles out of it.

  • by sdguero (1112795) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:30PM (#39622629)
    Except it was one line:

    "Just keep in mind that while most whites think people are racist, blacks know people are racist."

    He (white guy) grew up in a black neighborhood in Detroit during the 1960s.
  • by eln (21727) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:30PM (#39622631) Homepage
    If the influx has only been happening for the past 10 years, then it's far too early to make those sorts of claims. Unemployment in Ireland has been steadily rising and they're just now starting to implement the types of austerity measures that have tipped Greece into chaos. When economic times get tough and people start losing their jobs, they start to look for people to blame. Foreign immigrants are an easy target.

    You may be right that Ireland will be able to escape the rampant racism and ethnic conflicts that usually occur in situations like that when the economy goes south, but I think it's too early to tell how it will pan out.
  • by Kozz (7764) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:30PM (#39622633)

    I recall the government-funded NPR recently fired a black reporter after he made a guest appearance on FOX and said some things NPR did not like. So to answer your question: Yes.

    The ideal would be no censorship but of course that doesn't apply to private organizations. They censor things all the time.

    Honestly, SHUT UP about "government-funded" already. Combined federal, state and local gov't contributions make up about 5.8% [npr.org] according to their latest figures. The vast majority of their funding comes from individuals, businesses, and universities (amongst others). Your phrasing seems to suggest you think that gov't funding is holding the purse strings... puh-leeze. Would you also say Dunkin' Donuts gov't funded? Or would that be a deliberate misrepresentation of the complete body of facts?

  • by cpu6502 (1960974) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:31PM (#39622659)

    Ron Paul gave a speech last year about his very subject (prisons are mostly filled with blacks). He also argued that the Drug Prohibition is mostly targeted against blacks, and therefore it's a racist policy that needs to be ended.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:33PM (#39622685)

    Concentrated poverty produces high crime rates. News at 11.

  • by krept (697623) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:33PM (#39622689)
    It ends at him expressing beliefs not directly associated with, or contrary to the business paying him. I thought that was pretty clear? Take for example a pro-athlete, who is paid by a professional sports organization, and who has become rich and famous using the brand of that organization. They acquire millions of devoted followers (think twitter) who are almost obsessed with everything that athlete tweets, hundreds of times per week. Now let's say that athlete tweets something extremely offensive to thousands of people. Is that sports organization not supposed to punish the athlete for his/her comments? Should brands continue endorsing? Otherwise wouldn't it show that by continuing to support this athlete, it somehow aligns with the intentions of the company? Never mind if it wasn't published through an official medium such as a team press release. The association is implied.
  • by MozeeToby (1163751) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:36PM (#39622723)

    "There is nothing more painful to me..."

    And that right there is the difference difference. Everyone has prejudices, they're driven into our subconscious from day we're born to the day we die. Do you fight against them, consciously avoid letting them affect your decision making, feel shame over them? Or do you rationalize them with bad science, teach them to your children, and pretend that your prejudices are not only accurate, but also just?

  • by CanHasDIY (1672858) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:37PM (#39622747) Homepage Journal
    From Wikipedia:

    As to the reason for the termination of Williams' contract, NPR’s President and CEO Vivian Schiller offered the following comment: "News analysts may not take personal public positions on controversial issues; doing so undermines their credibility as analysts..."

    Williams was terminated for the same reason your post should not be modded Informative; he was acting as a pundit and spouting his opinion (which just so happened to be a prime example of xenophobic hysteria) while misrepresenting himself to be a credible news analyst.

    While hyperbole might make for good TV and Slashdot posts, it's not really appropriate for someone whose job is to report factual information.

  • by g0bshiTe (596213) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:38PM (#39622759)
    Segregation also perpetuates these myths. A black child not exposed to white children will not know how to act when exposed, vice versa for while children not exposed to black children. When you realize a man is a man regardless the color of his skin and deserves to be treated like a human with respect, you will go a lot further.
  • by Un pobre guey (593801) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:39PM (#39622793) Homepage
    Bingo. When talking heads prattle on about "post-racial America," they unwittingly raise the specter of classism in America, and therefore come perilously close to talking about class struggle. Class struggle is far more taboo than racism. Far, far more. We pretend it doesn't exist because if it does then all sorts of left wing contentions are automatically validated. In America, that is implicitly forbidden. That would be tantamount to validating Marxism.
  • by MozeeToby (1163751) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:42PM (#39622839)

    No, Jesse Jackson said he has a subconscious and shameful (to himself) fear of black youths in certain environments. This guy, said to his kids "Don't go where black people gather, if black people show up at an event leave, you are almost certainly smarter than any random black person you're going to meet, and black people in positions of authority deserve more scrutiny than their white counterparts". You don't see the difference?

  • by CanHasDIY (1672858) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:43PM (#39622847) Homepage Journal

    Oh! I thought you were talking about Obama/Sarkozy's assisting Al-queda take over Libya.

    Citation or it didn't happen.

    I was certain he was referring to Reagan/Bush selling missiles to Iran, funding the Contras, paying terrorists to hold Marines hostage, setting up the original Al Qaeda training camps, and so on, and so forth.

    What's that? You were just looking for an opportunity to blatantly bash 'liberals,' as if neocons aren't guilty of the same (or worse) crimes?

    Well, color me "surprised."

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:45PM (#39622893)

    Your false situation is total garbage, though because it would NEVER happen. There would never have been the need for public outcry because the black neighborhood watch guy would have undoubtedly been arrested and an actual investigation, arrest would have been made and charges would have been filed.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:48PM (#39622943)

    You don't know much about the South if you think Central Florida is part of it.

  • by GodInHell (258915) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:49PM (#39622951) Homepage
    This is pretty much Citzenship 101 -- you are free to say whatever the hell crazy bullshit you want. The government will not arrest you or hold you hostage for your views.

    I, however, as an individual citizen can hate you for what you say. I can exile you from my home, my office and my life. That is my freedom, I can choose not to associate with you, and I can choose not to allow your crazy into the places I control. I cannot, however, call a cop and have you thrown out of the public park where your ranting is bothering me.

    See the difference?

  • by Nugoo (1794744) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:49PM (#39622959)
    The white preachers wouldn't need to jump into the fray because the black volunteer would have been arrested.
  • by Libertarian001 (453712) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:50PM (#39622961)

    You know you're attacking the victim, right? And making generalizations about him? And notice how he didn't agree with his father and moved out over it, and yet you're claiming he towed the line? Nice.

    Fact: Racism cuts both ways.

  • by cpu6502 (1960974) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:50PM (#39622967)

    >>>NPR is "government funded" like oil companies are "government funded".

    Really? The oil companies get billions-of-dollars in U.S. Treasury checks like NPR and PBS do? Hmmmm. I. Did not. Know that. (Probably because your statement is false.)

  • by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:51PM (#39622981)

    You're again missing the problem entirely. Everyone is aware that there a nutjobs out there who will shoot someone if they thing someone is looking at them funny. The real problem is that in the real-world, the police didn't bother to do anything but to take the shooter at his word that it was self-defense. You can bet your sorry ass that if a black watch volunteer would have killed a white kid, he would have been in prison post-haste.

    That's the difference, and that's why all your attempts at moral equivocation are absolutely laughable: in the words of Token Black, "You just don't get it."

  • by GodInHell (258915) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:51PM (#39622985) Homepage
    Yehp. And the entire concept of modding down is to say "this message isn't worth the space on my screen."
  • by malkavian (9512) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:51PM (#39622991) Homepage

    Possibly not. In Bristol, UK, there was a City Councillor (herself of African descent, and oddly, spending most of her time in Florida) who accused another councillor of being a "coconut", which is a racist slur meaning someone who is "black/brown on the outside, and white on the inside". This happened in session (on the official public record). After having several firings of caucasians over implicit racist slurs, this one was practically ignored. It took a big backlash in the public to get the politicians to even begin an investigation. The councillor herself stated "I can't be racist, because I'm black.".
    In the end, she got a slap on the wrist.

    Yes, racism does cut both ways. However, by and large, you don't get to claim racism unless your skin is non-white.

    Studies confirm that there is a general racial bias in everyone (succinctly put in Avenue Q's "Everyone's a little bit Racist"). However, being adults, we should pretty much be trying to accept that we're flawed individuals, and get on with making everyone's life a bit better as long as they live up to society's expectations (if you're arrogant, violent and antisocial, don't expect people to like you whatever the colour of your skin).

    In the article, there are some actual truths. Basically, in any given social segment of any size, you'll meet all kinds of people. Nice and nasty and everything in between. Treat people as people, because that's who they are.

  • by s.petry (762400) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:55PM (#39623041)

    Having grown up in Detroit, I know very well the perils of being the wrong race in the wrong area. I have been the victim, and know many people who were also victims of simply being white in the wrong neighborhood (car broke down, made a wrong turn down the wrong block, etc...). A real problem is, that you can't talk about that problem (racism against whites) without being declared a racist. Minorities that have been the victims of legal racism seem to want retribution much more than equality?

    Now with that said, I read through the article. Some statements match the way things are, street wise, for a guy that grew up in a city that is largely anti-white. Other statements seem to be something from a Klan rally. I can see why he was canned and why there was backlash.

  • by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Monday April 09, 2012 @04:58PM (#39623075)

    No, it's not.

    You are saying that everyone needs to work your value of tolerance into their belief system, changing that belief system as necessary.

    Yes, but tolerance itself is a very different value than "brush your teeth", "eat an apple a day" or "work hard" and "pray to a specific entity in a specific place". Here's why:
    * tolerance is a value that allows for the peaceful coexistence of a lot of people with lots of different ideas on what is "right. Intolerance is a value that focuses on segregation across many lines.
    * tolerance is a value focuses on the acceptance of others. intolerance is a value that focuses on the rejection of others.

    As a result, intolerance of intolerance is absolutely not the same thing as generic intolerance. And quite frankly, anyone who claims that it is is either is a shining example of why a liberal arts education is important, or ought to live life alone, outside any group.

  • by Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:01PM (#39623131)

    I don't know which is sadder, that you're so ashamed of your own heritage or that there is so little memory of actual Irish culture amongst Irish Americans. The national motto is céad míle fáilte, a hundred thousand welcomes, and it holds as true today as ever, despite history, or perhaps because of it. Much has been lost. Northern Ireland is a completely different story mind you, it really is a different culture completely, for reasons I won't go into here.

  • by aardvarkjoe (156801) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:01PM (#39623133)

    Whites are not the minority.

    Blacks are a minority and there is a long history or racism against them, especially in the south.

    Racism is just as bad -- and inexcusable -- when a minority does it.

  • by at_slashdot (674436) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:01PM (#39623137)

    That's a good point, and actually the clothes are probably more important than the color of the skin, just think about meeting a black guy dressed with a Hugo Boss suit somewhere in downtown and meeting in a bad part of town a white dude with tattoos and pants that hangs down... yes, don't deny it, you are probably going to pre-judge them, but which one are you going to be afraid of?

  • by samkass (174571) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:02PM (#39623143) Homepage Journal

    >>>NPR is "government funded" like oil companies are "government funded".

    Really? The oil companies get billions-of-dollars in U.S. Treasury checks like NPR and PBS do? Hmmmm. I. Did not. Know that. (Probably because your statement is false.)

    Neither receive billions in U.S. Treasury checks. In "total compensation", including tax breaks and indirect funding, NPR receives a greater percentage of its revenue from the Government than the oil industry, but much, much less in total dollars. NPR's total budget last year was about $200M, so it's really an apple-and-oranges comparison, though.

    Of course, you're probably thinking NPR includes PBS, PRI, APT, APM, and PRX, or even CPB which it doesn't. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which is actually where the Government money goes directly to be redistributed to the other entities, had a budget of around $420M.

    So I'm sure they'd very much welcome a Treasury check of billions, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

  • by GodInHell (258915) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:03PM (#39623167) Homepage

    or by tax write off which has the same effect on government.

    This is such a specious argument. I get a standardized deduction for being alive and a citizen. Therefore the Federal Government is sponsoring everything I buy. After all, the U.S. Gov't could have elected to take that money from me. Ergo, every purchase I make is gov't spending. Apparently, the U.S. Gov't has a penchant for fine cheese, cigars, and port. I knew it! Those guys spend our money on the most wasteful things.


  • by mosb1000 (710161) <mosb1000@mac.com> on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:06PM (#39623217)

    Murdering a murderer isn't the same as murder itself. Stealing from a thief isn't theft. Creating on your cheating wife isn't cheating. A sarcastic response to an intellectually dishonest comment isn't sarcasm.

    Black is white, up is down, and east is west, but you and people who agree with you on this still don't know what you're talking about. Either you believe in being tolerant, or you don't. Believing that intolerance is wrong, except when it applies to intolerance is a dangerous kind of doublethink. Someone who is intellectually honest with himself will know that if you believe it's ok to be intolerant of one thing, it may be ok to be intolerant of another.

    The reality is you should tolerate some things and not tolerate others. A blanket enthusiasm for tolerance is completely unwarranted and nonsensical. Do you think you should tolerate rape, or murder, or theft, or any number of other things that are almost universally understood as bad? You're simply holding up a principle that makes no sense.

  • by Nugoo (1794744) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:08PM (#39623241)

    You're using the wrong statistic. You should be giving the odds of someone being arrested given that they're male (1,352 per 100,000) vs. them being arrested given that they're female (126 per 100,000).
    Also of note, white male arrest rate (1,775 per 100,000) vs. black male arrest rate (4,347 per 100,000).
    Well... looks like the difference is still much greater between men and women, than it is between white and black. As a half-black man, I still wouldn't want to live there, though.

    Source [wikipedia.org]

  • by cayenne8 (626475) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:15PM (#39623343) Homepage Journal

    Williams made remarks to the effect that he feared for his safety when he saw someone who looked (to him) like a Muslim board an airplane, and that anyone who wears "Muslim garb" obviously identifies themselves as a Muslim first and an American second (if they are American at all).

    I'd venture to guess, that MANY people that are non-muslims feel that same tinge of fear or apprehension when they see someone get on a plane with "muslim garb".

    I know I do....just natural these days, especially when this statement was made by Juan not that long after 9/11. I think it was just a few years after 2011 wasn't it?

    But on a larger scale...call it racist or what...but there are stereotypes for reasons. They weren't just made out out of the clear blue sky.

    Me? Sure, if I'm walking a street alone (especially in New Orleans) and I see some black teen males walking behind me or coming near me...I keep a very wary eye out on them, and often will cross to the other side of the road and keep an eye out for my options to get to safety in case of a mugging.


    Well,young black teens commit an overwhelming amount of muggings down here. They are often caught on the cameras wearing gang-banger clothes. If I see that, I naturally am apprehensive.

    If said young black men, were wearing suits, or dressed in a more normal, non-threatening middle class manner, no...I'd not likely be worried for my safety.

    Racist? I dunno....I think it is more like knowing the dangers that can occur around you and being aware of the situation.

  • by s0nicfreak (615390) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:18PM (#39623383) Homepage Journal
    I have lived all over the US and in parts of Asia, in varying class-dominated areas. In some areas, regardless of what race is the majority, yes there is a danger. But in some areas you are in danger of being robbed, arrested, or even beat up... in the poor black areas, you are in danger of being shot. Yes I know that isn't PC, that it's stereotypical, and it's based on my anecdotal experiences (of having several people I know shot, most fatally, and seeing several strangers shot) etc. but, oh well. I'm going to teach my children whatever I think they need to know to stay safe.
  • by toadlife (301863) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:35PM (#39623609) Journal

    The term reverse racism is itself a racist term. I know that white people don't mean it that way, but the term implies that racism is only supposed to go in one direction.

  • Re:The Talk (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TheGratefulNet (143330) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:40PM (#39623649)

    because: usually its in your 30's and 40's that hope is lost (you see the world for the injust place it really is). some people its ealier and some its later. some never see the real world; but most people lose their starry eyed idealism in middle age.

    I'll say it again, the world is no disney picture. things eat each other 'out there' and I'm not just talking literally.

    lets also admit that we encircle ourselves in lots of layers. your religion, your color, where your parents were born, your weath level, your education level, the area in the country you live, the country itself, the region of the world.

    countries and cultures fight all the time. its an us-vs-them theme and it gets repeated at the macro and micro levels.

    color is just one of the circles. lets realize that its one but only one and that if we ever solved 'the race issue' how would we solve the country/culture/language/vocation/etc issue? we will ALWAYS draw lines around our groups and groups of groups.

    I think its a bad thing, overall. but its how humans and some animals are wired. it just is.

  • by AK Marc (707885) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:42PM (#39623679)
    The oil companies get free oil, free land leases, and other non-cash concessions of direct discernible value.
  • by TheRaven64 (641858) on Monday April 09, 2012 @05:51PM (#39623797) Journal

    And if you do believe that, you have some reading to do about the justice system.

    Let's call it a legal system. The phrase justice system may be guilty of misleading advertising.

  • by F69631 (2421974) on Monday April 09, 2012 @06:08PM (#39624031)

    I agree with all those statements....so, am I a racist?

    If you think that white parents should instruct their children to avoid events that might attract a lot of black people and, when choosing a point of time to visit amusement parks, avoid days when there are a lot of blacks visiting... Yes, I think that pretty much makes you a racist and/or very xenophobic. Even if there is statistical correlation with blacks and crime rates, I don't think that you can make a reasonable argument that "Avoid blacks whenever possible" is a proper and rational response.

    Also, I can't help but notice this

    I am fiercely independent ... I'm not going to apologize however for wanting to be comfortably surrounded by people who think and act like me ...

  • by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Monday April 09, 2012 @06:16PM (#39624147)

    Ah, the attempt to put a new meaning to the word racist, and derail the conversation into a discussion on semantics. Cute. You're behind the times though, and even the Stormfront people have settled on just coining a new term, after their attempts to redefine the word failed pretty miserably.

    The question is: am I right in my assertion? Based on conviction rates alone of specific sets of crimes that ought to be colorblind (crack convictions, for example), I am. I am interested to hear your counter argument. What you've presented so far is not one.

  • by s73v3r (963317) <s73v3r@ g m a i l.com> on Monday April 09, 2012 @06:16PM (#39624157)

    It ends at him expressing beliefs not directly associated with, or contrary to the business paying him.

    Unless you are a significant public figure for your business (and even then I'm not so sure), what you believe and what you say should have fuck all to do with your employer. You are paid to do a job, not paid to do whatever the fuck they say, both on and off the clock. The sooner employers realize they have no fucking right whatsoever to have anything to do with employees off the clock, the better everyone will be.

  • by s73v3r (963317) <s73v3r@ g m a i l.com> on Monday April 09, 2012 @06:52PM (#39624657)

    The fact is: I don't see any difference between Bush/Obama/Romney.

    Yet, you seem to hold Obama responsible for all of it, and only bash Obama. Doesn't really fit with your claim of "not seeing any difference".

  • by mydn (195771) on Monday April 09, 2012 @07:17PM (#39624923)
    Does that mean that the government "owns" churches, since their contributions are tax exempt?
  • by Peristaltic (650487) * on Monday April 09, 2012 @07:44PM (#39625155)

    If you think that sounds ridiculous, maybe you should reexamine your own stereotypes.

    It does sound ridiculous, because you're standing up a straw man- Why not take a minute and respond directly to his argument instead:

    Me? Sure, if I'm walking a street alone (especially in New Orleans) and I see some black teen males walking behind me or coming near me...I keep a very wary eye out on them, and often will cross to the other side of the road and keep an eye out for my options to get to safety in case of a mugging. Why? Well,young black teens commit an overwhelming amount of muggings down here. They are often caught on the cameras wearing gang-banger clothes. If I see that, I naturally am apprehensive. If said young black men were wearing suits, or dressed in a more normal, non-threatening middle class manner, no...I'd not likely be worried for my safety.

    While stereotyping is more often misused than not, it is not ridiculous to be apprehensive if approached while walking alone down Rampart in New Orleans by a group of black teenage teen males dressed in clothing typically worn by gang members.

    It is also not ridiculous to be apprehensive if approached by a group of rough-looking rednecks while walking alone in a small East Texas town.

    I've been in both situations, and would have been foolish had I not been apprehensive in each. By the same token, had the teenagers been dressed in clothing not similar to that worn by violent gangs, and if the rednecks had been dressed differently and had hidden a couple of (big) tattoos I usually associate with prison life (and had later not idled slowly past me in a pickup truck, sporting a confederate flag decal and plastered with bumper stickers that advocated some pretty rotten stuff for "liberals" and "yankees"), I would have been less concerned about my well-being.

    Granted, not all black teenagers on Rampart that walk in groups and wear gang-affiliated clothing are a threat to lone individuals walking nearby, and the same may be said for groups of scruffy-looking rednecks in east Texas that drive beat-up pickup trucks with offensive bumper stickers, but based upon the crime rates in specific areas and in specific situations, there is an elevated risk. In some situations, it is not unreasonable or bigoted to be apprehensive based upon a stereotype.

  • by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Monday April 09, 2012 @09:31PM (#39626095)

    You appear to be claiming that "liberals" always get away with murder and "conversavtives" don't. The problem here is the "always" part. Rather is a counter-example as is Limbaugh and his slut-tirade. So what if Roland Martin got a slap on the wrist? NPR fired their head of fund-raising for privately saying he thought the tea party were a bunch of kooks, and then they went on to fire their CEO in the fall-out. Meanwhile Ann Coulter non-ironically says things like "camel jockey" and "raghead" and doesn't even get a slap on the wrist.

    What you've got is a case of confirmation bias. Some people get fired, some don't on all sides.

  • But if every business pushes an agenda that is a lie, when does it officially become newspeak? Lets be honest folks...how many here think that the average white person, just minding their own business, would walk through say Harlem or Watts or any other major big city all black neighborhood unscathed? Now what if it were the other way? in most places the worst that would happen to the black man would be a cop asking him what he was doing which is a far cry from ending up beaten or dead. Can't blame it on poverty either because WV is the poorest state in the nation and also has one of the lowest crimes rates as well.

    AG Holder has the balls to call us cowards for not talking about race, even after crap like this? Then lets talk about race and the real problems we are seeing in America. there is a good reason why places like Harlem were once considered jewels and are now hellholes, its because 50 years of welfare rewarding destructive behavior like having multiple children by multiple partners combined with a black culture that glorifies violence, drugs, weapons, and the treatment of women as nothing more than sperm receptacles and punching bags has destroyed the black community!

    How sad that nobody can speak anything but PC Newspeak anymore, no matter how many facts and figures you can provide to back it up. How many know that the AP refuses to publish the race if the attacker is black and the victim white? How many here even heard about the white kid that was doused in gas and set on fire by black kids shouting "Kill whitey for Trayvon"? How sad is it that Klan has nothing on "thug life!" culture when it comes to killing black people?

    Until more are willing to point out that the combination of "thug life!" culture and welfare teaching a complete lack of values is creating the very situations that the racists used to use as propaganda I expect we will see nothing more than PC newspeak while those same elites that publish their PC mags quietly go back to their all white gated communities with armed guards, ignoring the mass slaughters, rapes, and robberies happening thanks to the rise of the violent urban ghettos.

  • by MaskedSlacker (911878) on Monday April 09, 2012 @10:59PM (#39626691)

    how many here think that the average white person, just minding their own business, would walk through say Harlem or Watts or any other major big city all black neighborhood unscathed?

    When I worked for political campaigns in LA I did this all the time. I was never harassed (except by the occassional guard dog behind a fence). There were a few skeevy looking guys that made me nervous (net tattoos and obvious drugs/money exchange), but they never actually bothered or threatened me.

    In Beverly Hills on the other hand? I had people track my plates and leave harrassing messages on my home phone number (a number they could only have gotten by looking up the car's registration). I was chased down the street by one crazy asshole with a broom. I had things thrown at me. Lost track of the number of times I talked to the cops.

    I'll let you figure out where I felt more safe. (Just to clarify, I'm as white as the driven snow). Maybe you just face up to the fact that you're a raving racist if you really think a white person can't walk safely through the neighborhoods south of the 10.

  • Thanks. And NOW do you see why I said AG Holder was full of shit? what we have is a classic case of Newspeak where holder says "We should talk about race' but what he meant was 'You should just agree with everything i say and if you don't why you are a Nazi!" because it was less than 2 posts before i got called a racist, which is this year's pedo apparently, just for pointing out that 50 years of welfare have frankly been worse than an atomic bomb on the black community.

    As you pointed out those straight off the boat from Africa, in fact many in my oldest boy's med classes are from Ethiopia and they aren't having a problem at all getting excellent grades. Why isn't "whitey keeping them down" because as you so rightly pointed out REAL racists don't care where they are from, just the color of their skin. Can't say its poverty, look up the stats for WV which is the poorest state in the nation and also has one of the lowest crime rates.

    How sad that liberal used to be a good word, it meant "doing something new when the old things didn't work' yet now it means "turn a blind eye to failure as long as they vote democrat" which has enough irony you could choke since it was the dems in the 50s that were ANTI equal rights, going so far as to have a split in their own party.

    In the end i could post the numbers, but what is the point? I'd just be accused of somehow manipulating the data (even though the FBI and DoJ already manipulate it by listing Hispanics as white and even with TWO races VS the American black culture the blacks still come out worse across the board for incarceration, rape, murder, and more than 30% against whites compared to less than 6% the other way around) or that it was poverty or they would just play the race card as we saw right here.

    But in the end Newspeak can't erase the truth, only twist it. And the truth is 50 years of welfare combined with the combination of a culture that glorifies criminal behavior while condemning those that try to learn and rise above as "Uncle Toms" is frankly doing a better job of destroying blacks than the Klan ever could. And as long as "community leaders" like Sharpton and Jackson can profit from white guilt and pushing that it is "all whitey's fault" then this destruction by their own race will sadly continue.

1 Mole = 25 Cagey Bees