Mandatory Brake-Override Proposed For All Cars 911
Hugh Pickens writes "The LA Times reports that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration wants to require automakers to include a brake-throttle override system in all their cars and light trucks to help drivers regain control when a vehicle accelerates suddenly when the throttle becomes stuck or jammed. 'America's drivers should feel confident that any time they get behind the wheel they can easily maintain control of their vehicles — especially in the event of an emergency,' says Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. The move came after a fiery 2009 Lexus crash after a floor mat was improperly installed and may have trapped the accelerator pedal, causing the vehicle to race down California Highway 125 outside San Diego at more than 100 miles per hour, crashing and bursting into flames, killing an off-duty California Highway Patrol Officer and three members of his family. That crash led to a recall of 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles to fix the floor mat problem, and Toyota issued millions more recall notices to fix sticking gas pedals and other issues. Now Toyota has made a brake-override system standard, implementing it in all vehicles the company sold by the end of 2010, and most other automakers offer such a system on many of their vehicles or are adding it. Other automakers would have about two years to comply with the proposal (PDF). 'We learned as part of the comprehensive NASA and NHTSA studies of high-speed unintended acceleration that brake-override systems could help drivers avoid crashes,' says NHTSA Administrator David Strickland."
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wait, wtf, NASA again?!? (Score:5, Informative)
After months of study conducted for the National Research Council by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), researchers concluded that the unintended acceleration accidents in 2009 and 2010 couldn't be traced to any problems with engines' electronic throttle control systems.
cite [edmunds.com].
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:5, Informative)
Brake override is built-in already ... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't believe there has ever been a production model of car or truck where the brakes aren't FAR more powerful than the engine/transmission.
If you apply the brake firmly, you WILL stop, even if the engine is at Wide-Open Throttle.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-to-deal-with-unintended-acceleration [caranddriver.com]
Re:You can already do this on your own (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:4, Informative)
Most modern cars have a rev limiter in the computer, which will make a lot of noise but will prevent immediate engine damage.
Older cars without a rev limiter will over-rev, but not infinitely.
Also nobody ever said you couldn't do both; shift to neutral briefly, get lined up for the side of the road, shut off engine, coast / brake to stop.
The brake booster holds enough for 1-2 normal pedal applications; after that use both feet on the brake pedal, works just fine.
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Toyota's had a lot of problems since the late 9 (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, Toyota reliability is still top notch. My family has owned 6 of them and they have all lasted 20 years at least.
2012 Consumer Reports top 9 most reliable brands were Japanese. Scion, Lexus and Toyota were three of those 9.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/cr-recommended/best-worst-in-car-reliability/reliability-findings/reliability-findings.htm [consumerreports.org]
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:2, Informative)
Turning off the engine with the car still in gear could damage the gearbox and/or engine, as the gearbox and engine will now be being driven by the wheels due to existing momentum of the car.
Modern cars have rev limiters which will prevent the engine from going too far into the red, also you will only redline the engine for as long as it takes you to pull off the road and stop, then you can turn the engine off too.
Bouncing off the ref limiter with no load on the engine for a couple of minutes isn't going to do much damage, if any.
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:2, Informative)
Do you also have trouble operating a microwave? Because "push button" is literally as simple as it gets. The days are long over that the ignition was actually wired - in any serious way - to critical engine systems.
Most push button start cars will NOT shut off with a simple push of the button. Some require you to hold it in for several seconds, or perform other actions.
Re:Just turn off the car? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wait, wtf, NASA again?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Plus: When this happened a bunch of motor magazines tried braking when the car was under full throttle and the brakes won. Every time. Even with muscle cars. cite [caranddriver.com]
You can also put the car in neutral [consumerreports.org].
Not sure what this says about the "Highway Patrol Officer"'s abilities as a driver. If he couldn't manage either of those then this new system won't save him.
"just put it in Neutral" (Score:4, Informative)
In a stick shift that's probably what drivers would naturally do. In an automatic, it's not necessarily that easy.
I've practiced this. So should anybody who plans to try it in an emergency.
In my 98 Toyota Sienna, it works great, although it's easy to shift pass Neutral and go to Reverse.
In our '06 Prius, at moderate/high speeds the car simply won't let you shift from D to N, and I really doubt the computer would pay any attention at all if the driver were to try holding the power button down. But I'll try that out when I get a chance.
Re:Wait, wtf, NASA again?!? (Score:3, Informative)
I was actually taught by one of my dad's friends how to handle this situation.
Let's say you're in the passenger seat and the driver passes out, foot stuck on the accelerator. What do you do?
One of two things. You could change the gear to neutral. There's a chance it will destroy your gearbox but it's better than crashing.
The other thing is to - get this - turn the car off. Just turn the ignition and pull the keys. Either way, you have to then try to control the car to a stop.
Do try to flip on the hazard indicators if you can. You can almost never reach the brake pedal from the passenger side, and there is almost no indication to other drivers as to what's going on other than the fact that you are slowing down. Someone inattentive might miss it and rear-end you.
Re:Wait, wtf, NASA again?!? (Score:2, Informative)
The other thing is to - get this - turn the car off. Just turn the ignition and pull the keys. Either way, you have to then try to control the car to a stop.
Good luck controlling the car with the steering wheel locked. Sound like a sure fire way to roll the vehicle to me.
Re:Wait, wtf, NASA again?!? (Score:5, Informative)
turn the car off. Just turn the ignition and pull the keys.
Definitely do not turn it all the way off and "pull the keys". If you do this, you may engage the steering wheel lock feature, and the driver could try to swerve and find the wheel locked in the turned position. If you do chose to turn off the car, just turn it one click to kill the engine. But as has been mentioned above, simply applying the brakes firmly should always be effective, and failing that, neutral is a good option. Neither of these have the steering wheel lock danger.
Re:Wait, wtf, NASA again?!? (Score:5, Informative)
I just went and looked, the Lexus that officer was driving had no actual key... it was one of those fob things with a push-button engine start.
Trick is with those, when the car is in gear and moving, you have to press that button and hold it for 5+ seconds to shut the engine off to prevent accidental engine shutoff while moving. Of course, this doesn't happen when the car is stopped with the transmission in Park, you just tap the button and the engine shuts off.
I have had this experience with a very old Toyota...
I can sort of imagine how it went for him:
1. Car does not show sign of stopping acceleration
2. Driver takes foot off gas pedal
3. Driver looks at gauges, notices car is still accelerating
4. Driver looks at pedal, can't really see anything
5. Driver steps on brakes (not hard enough in the officer's case)
6. Driver tries to shut car off (which is what I did, I have a keyed ignition, I rolled off to the side of the road and stopped here) - officer taps the engine start button and nothing happens
7. Driver goes "Oh shit!", doesn't know what else to do and tries 911.
After I stopped I got out and found the gas pedal was caught on the transmission tunnel mat.
I know when I bought my new truck (not a Toyota) the dealer went through with me emergency procedures like the fuel cutoff and various other things. Maybe Lexus (and other auto dealerships) should make a point of informing customers on how the push-button engine start works if the car is equipped with it. It probably wasn't mentioned, other than here's how to start and stop the car (at a stop.)
I also read the manual for my new vehicle, but maybe some people can't be bothered?