Gimp 2.8 Finally Released 737
Cryophallion writes "After many years of development, GIMP 2.8 is finally released. Among its features: the oft-desired single-window mode, layer groups, and many other massive improvements, including some of the GIMP UI team's work. This might be the release that helps make The GIMP a much more user friendly experience for newcomers, and has features that are rivaling those of certain exceptionally expensive commercial programs. While the porting of GEGL is still ongoing (and recently reported to have made massive advances made), this is a major step forward for one of the premier open source projects." Here are the official release notes.
Maaaaaan... (Score:5, Insightful)
The Gimp Users website is a design trainwreck.
The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
They really ought to consider re-naming it. Try installing it in - say - a junior high school some time. See how that goes over.
Re:Maaaaaan... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I think the prominent headline, "GIMP on Linux - Compile it yourself!" tells you the sort of people who designed it.
2.6 for Windows (Score:4, Insightful)
Here comes the complaning... (Score:5, Insightful)
I for one, am glad that GIMP exists and want to thank all the people involved for all their hard work. It is not perfect but gets better with every release. I happily use it for all my photo manipulation needs.
Re:The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
I actually used to teach a class where I wanted to use it. But the name stopped me. A real shame. Wish someone would fork it with a name that isn't so childish and offensive. They can improve it all they like, but no one is ever going to take it seriously with that name.
Change the name, please! (Score:3, Insightful)
The first unnatractive GIMP feature is its name. Please change it to something more appealing while describes what it does. Photoshop, Paintshop, Illustrator,Inkscape, Pencil, etc. are good names for similar programs, please find a more clever name.
Re:Here comes the complaning... (Score:5, Insightful)
I tried Photoshop, and I didn't like it because it wasn't the GIMP.
I'm sure PS is fine, but once you've learned one UI it's difficult to adapt to a different one.
Re:The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
Warning: non native English speaker here.
I didn't know gimp was an offensive word. Do children recognize it as offensive? Is it because it sounds like "chimp"? Are monkeys offensive?
Children? Nah, the only reason they think the word might be offensive is because of the way idiotic, childish adults react to it.
Re:Here comes the complaning... (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you for posting this.
You get a feature rich, stable, complete application for absolutely free and you still complain about it not being something else. Gimp may have a very steap learning curve and may lack some features of photoshop but it is still a solid package and we should be absolutely greatful that there are people out there who dedicate their time to provide the package to us for free.
I am absolutely sure that most people here, who complain about gimp not being photoshop, do not even have a valid license for photoshop. Additionally, if you think its so much worse, why dont you go ahead and try to make it better, its open source after all. But that would actually require you to do some work.
I am happy that gimp 2.8 finally got released. I continue to use and support it :)
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
GNU
Image
Manipulation
Program
It is only offensive to those who feel a deep seated need to be offended.
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who just can not spend a whole day without being "Deeply Offended" by something.
Re:The Name (Score:2, Insightful)
Boo hoo. If you can't get over the name, it's pretty clear who is the childish one.
Re:CMYK (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:how about a new name? Use name, not acronym (Score:4, Insightful)
Rather than introduce it by it's acronym why not use it's full name when recommending it?
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering your signature, I fear this is going to fall on deaf ears. You have a very high threshold for offense, and believe everyone should too. I suspect this because you are willing to equate a piece of computer hardware to criminal sodomy out in public, but please correct me if I am wrong.
But here's the thing, if you are a disabled person then Gimp is just like "the N word", and insult hurled at you in anger and derision. It is also a word you reserve the right to yourself. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree, but you do have to accept that, because that is the reality out in the world — at least with enough people to matter.
And I can see why you think your explanation, giving the name in full, is cogent. But here's the thing: If the default were to say "The GNU Image Manipulation Program" and some people shortened it to "GIMP" then that would be one thing. Unfortunately that isn't the case. The devs of the program called it GIMP from the beginning, and took a very long time to accept that anyone could be offended by that. And now it is a line in the sand to them, one they will not cross.
The name is a problem. It stops people using it, it stops schools teaching it, it hurts the app.
Re:The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
It's only offensive to people who are crippled, know somebody who is crippled, feel the need to not offend people who are crippled, or who work in a professional business and don't want to potentially offend customers/employees/etc. who may be crippled, etc.
In other words, it speaks volumes about the marketing ability of geeks. Just as I said. If I created the worlds greatest network monitoring system and named it "Portable Enterprise Network Information System" it wouldn't matter. Nobody is going to install PENIS in a professional environment.
GIMP is a stupid name. You may not care. I may not care. It's still a stupid name.
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
As an engineer I have to fight the tendency to assign acronyms to things that don't need them, or even discard/alter acronyms that come out "wrong". GIMP does not get off the hook for having a silly name because it's an acronym. In fact the full name of the program looks like it was chosen to create the acronym - which is doubly silly.
Bemoan it all you want, but GIMP is a stupid name and it ought to change if it wants to be taken seriously.
Re:Here comes the complaning... (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time there is anything posted about GIMP the entire comments consist of nothing but people complaining that it is not photoshop. What does it contribute to the discussion?
The reason people complain is that they really *WANT* to get away from Photoshop and its 600$+ price tag (no everyone can get away with using a pirated copy), but the Gimp Team will not prioritize features that *professional* users want.
Are they features that *everyone* (or even most) users want? Maybe not, but before Gimp can gain widespread acceptance among the various *professional* users, the Gimp team needs to set a high priority on addressing their needs.
And this would be a good thing, many of those people whining about Gimp desperately want to dump Photoshop - It just isn't possible with Gimp in its current state.
And, they lame-assed come-back "It's Open Source, why don't YOU write some code" is, well, lame and doesn't really need addressing.
Re:The Name (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't matter if the acronym works. It's an offensive word. If CHINK, HONKEY, WETBACK, or NIGGER were legitimate acronyms would you say they're a good idea for an app's name?
Re:The Name (Score:3, Insightful)
The name was not a problem.
First came the name. Then came the problem.
Also.
The "N" word is fucking stupid. If someone is being offensive and says the word "Nigger" then they are an easy to spot dumb fuck.
Blacks can use the word nigger all they want. I will be modded down because I have used the word twice.
I did not use it offensively. The word itself is not offensive because blacks can say it all they want.
That means that is is only offensive because I am not black.
That is racism. That to me is offensive.
I am not often offended, but people who corrupt language to change thinking are in my opinion evil and highly offensive.
Re:CMYK (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't understand. You imply that GIMP isn't sufficient for professional work for stuff like paper publications, yet you state that GIMP is good for screen graphics. This is despite the fact you mention one of the inadequacies with it which is font rendering, an issue that is very much existing with screen graphics no less than on paper. Am I reading your statement incorrectly?
Re:Here comes the complaning... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't care that it isn't photoshop. I do, however, care that when it comes to features GIMP 2.8 still compares badly to Photoshop 7. No non destructive editing, no CYMK, I don't see anything in the announcement about high color depths, etc.
I don't need GIMP to be a clone of photoshop. I don't need the keystrokes, the icons, even the core philosophy to be the same. But I do need it to compare well against the feature set of PS7, which came out a decade ago.
We know that small teams can produce apps that are comparable to PS7, in much less time than the 16 years it took us to get to GIMP 2.8 — Paint.NET, Acorn, Pixelmator, etc.
It is more than time to stop giving the GIMP team a pass, and start holding them to a higher standard.
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
Your stubborn refusal to consider someone else's feelings, combined with your signature, makes me think you have a remarkable lack of sensitivity, empathy, and social awareness. As such, you may not get much out of this post.
Sometimes one has to pick one's battles. You can choose to fight on the naming of a piece of software based on your assertion that it's only offensive to people who want to be offended. Alternatively, you can choose to accept that whether you agree with the sentiment or think it's foolish, nonetheless the term is offensive and/or silly and/or nebulous to potential users. The bigger issue could be that you want to spread the word about free and open source software and this is a great example of something that has come out of the community and matured, but which potentially is being held back by its name.
I'm not a FOSS evangelist, but if I were I'd think it was a valid concern and wonder if I could give up the battle ("I wanna keep the name GIMP!") so that I have a better shot at winning the war. (And I really dislike using that terminology, by the way, because it should be about choice and giving people something that's better, not a fight against the enemy.)
Look, it comes down to this. Like it or not, the name is a problem for more than a handful of people. Do you really want that to be the impediment that stops one of the best examples of free and open source software from being more widely adopted? Is it really that important to you? Where do your priorities lie?
(And no-one is going to call it "GNU Image Manipulation Program". One syllable versus eleven. Easy choice.)
Re:The Name (Score:2, Insightful)
The "Bigger issue" is not in my opinion FOSS.
The bigger issue is PC.
Political Correctness of speech is what offends me.
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
What, that geeks don't value marketing?
No, that 99% of geeks are so clueless about marketing that they don't even understand why it's desirable.
This isn't a business that's seeking to conquer the world and "gain market share", it's an open source project where people want to create a tool for others to use.
If they want others to use it........then change the fucking name. How difficult is this concept, really?
It's been extraordinarily successful in that regard.
No, it's been somewhat successful. It could have been and could still be extraordinarily successful, were the developers not clueless twits.
If some people can't get past a name just to use a product, then why is that the developers problem and not the people who choose to not use a product for childish reasons?
It's the developer's problem because the developers will go down in history as clueless twits who provided a marginally useful tool, rather than smart folks who genuinely "got it", understood their user base, and provided a seriously useful tool for them.
I mean, as another poster suggested, why not call it NIGGER? I'm sure there'll be leagues of those "childish" people flocking to it, right?
A good mechanic when shopping for used cars, can tell the difference between a car maintained by a fucking moron, and one by a person with half a clue. Guess which car he will gravitate towards purchasing?
A materials scientist who is a plastics expert isn't going to buy some cheap ass garbage plastic basket made out a material which he knows won't last 6 weeks; he's going to buy the one next to it that costs a dollar or ten dollars more. It's not even that the cheap one will break; it's the *knowledge* of it being a cheap piece of shit that would haunt him in his sleep if he knowingly bought such garbage.
So given all the above logical, reasonable statements, why the fuck would you assume that an artist is any different? Why would a person who is finely attuned to artwork and design sense gravitate towards a half assed graphics program so moronically designed that the very name gives it away?
I think it's a stupid name, but I also think if someone is that hyper-sensitive to a name, then perhaps they should fork over a few hundred bucks for photo shop so they won't be offended. I kind of like the idea that being hyper-sensitive to things costs people money.
No--being hypersensitive to things makes people money.....a concept the "GIMP" developers might have half a hope of understanding, were they actually artists rather than your average geeks with zero artistic sense. It is precisely because the GIMP geeks aren't anything like their ideal user base (you know....artists) that their tool is nowhere near as good and as popular as it could be.
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
The name was not a problem.
First came the name. Then came the problem.
Also.
The "N" word is fucking stupid. If someone is being offensive and says the word "Nigger" then they are an easy to spot dumb fuck.
Blacks can use the word nigger all they want. I will be modded down because I have used the word twice.
I did not use it offensively. The word itself is not offensive because blacks can say it all they want.
That means that is is only offensive because I am not black.
That is racism. That to me is offensive.
I am not often offended, but people who corrupt language to change thinking are in my opinion evil and highly offensive.
A couple of points for you to consider...
As for the naming of GIMP and whether it should be changed... would it be such a big deal? We've watched many projects go through forks and renames and changes of ownership. StarOffice, OpenOffice.org, LibreOffice. Phoenix, Firebird, Firefox. I think we'd get along just fine with a name change.
To be obstinate on this topic is short-sighted if we (as a community) would like to see this product succeed at an ever-growing rate. If the name is holding it back from adoption or acceptance to any measurable degree, isn't it a good thing to seek improved marketing?
Re:The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
If someone is calling your nephew "gimp" then they are being offensive.
If some hick walk up to a black man and says "outta my way nigger", then he is being offensive.
GIMP as the name of a program that has nothing to do with disabilities is not offensive.
Nigger when used by a black comedian is not offensive.
Let me go slowly here.
Words are not in and of themselves offensive. People can be. People who are being offensive use words.
If I were to say that "Your nephew is a strange looking person with limited intelligence and no hope of being a full human being."
That would be highly offensive and a horrible thing to say to someone.
What word there is at fault? Which of those words are "offensive"?
Words are not and never have been the problem. As long as we try to fix the words we will never fix the problem.
Be offended all you want about words that in and of themselves are not offensive.
Re:The Name (Score:3, Insightful)
>That acronym would not be offensive if used by a black person.
You keep saying that. Why is it surprising to you? The same is true for words used towards all kinds of groups.
I don't think it is words themselves that are offensive but the intent behind them. Obviously as we are not all mind readers, people have to take a guess at intent based on the words used, the tone and, yes, the person doing the talking. When a member of a particular group uses a potentially offensive term for their own group, it is usually pretty clear that they do not intend to offend. When someone outside the group does it, it is not so clear.
As well as racial groups, this applies to all kinds of groups like gays, jews, ginger haired people, nerds, people from specific cities/countries/regions.
People can sometimes be over sensitive (I have certainly come across people who look for opportunities to be offended) but if you know a word will be considered offensive when you use it, why not choose a different word, assuming you don't intend to offend?
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite right.
Aside from any offensive connotations, which of these names clearly fails at being clear about what it does?
Photoshop
Paint
GIMP
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not based solely on the color of the speaker. It's also based on the history of that word. You cannot deny that the word nigger has a very, very negative connotation, especially when coming from a white person to a black person.
Honestly, you're starting to sound like one of those jackasses who likes being offensive purely for the sake of being offensive.
Re:The Name (Score:3, Insightful)
One could argue the same for Git [wikipedia.org]... but it's used in professional environments all the time despite it being "unparliamentary language [wikipedia.org]."
Stop fussing about one definition of the word. You're just like the asshats that want to preserve the purity of the word "hacker."
Re:The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
You can choose to fight on the naming of a piece of software based on your assertion that it's only offensive to people who want to be offended
Offense is always a choice on the part of the offended. Maybe they should pick their battles.
Do you really want that to be the impediment that stops one of the best examples of free and open source software from being more widely adopted? Is it really that important to you? Where do your priorities lie?
As long as the software is good, it doesn't matter. Those who choose not to use it based on the name are missing out. The developers lose nothing if they don't use it.
If it was really such a big deal, why hasn't GIMP forked yet? Just do with GIMP what Debian has done with Iceweasel and you're good to go. The fact that this hasn't happened yet indicates that people aren't really serious about their objection to the name.
Re:The Name (Score:5, Insightful)
You may pretend words don't have a connotation. But you're wrong.
Re:The Name (Score:4, Insightful)
Huh? I was saying exactly the opposite, IMNSHO.
No, the GIMP used to rely on windos managers to, well, manage all the tool windows. Now it has had to reimplement all that window manager functionality and manage all the tools etc in one large window because users kept consistently selecting very bad window managers and then whining that the gimp was at fault, not the window managers.
Winding back how far? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's possible that Slashdot didn't even exist before that was changed - after all the graphics was originally done using gimp, which was a few years old by then.
Back then photoshop didn't even have "undo" and nobody gripes about that now. Back then of course I was told "real professionals save frequently so don't need undo" - fanboys will be fanboys.