Ultra-Orthodox Jews Rally For a More Kosher Internet 430
Hugh Pickens writes "Michael Grynbaum writes that 40,000 ultra-Orthodox Jewish men filed through the gates of Citi Field to discuss the dangers of the Internet. For the attendees, many of whom said they came at the instructions of their rabbis, it was a chance to hear about a moral topic considered gravely important in the Hasidic community: the potential problems that can stem from access to pornography and other explicit content on the uncensored, often incendiary Web. Schlomo Cohen, 24, said he came to Citi Field because the rally was a good way to remind his community to keep temptation at bay. 'Desires are out there,' said Cohen. 'We have to learn how to control ourselves.' The rally was sponsored by a rabbinical group, Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachane, that is linked to a software company that sells Internet filtering software to Orthodox Jews. Those in attendance were handed fliers that advertised services like a 'kosher GPS App' for iPhone and Android phones, which helps users locate synagogues and kosher restaurants. 'No one here is a Luddite who denies the manifold benefits that technology has brought to mankind as a whole,' says Eytan Kobre, spokesman for the event. 'But at a certain point, a mature, thinking individual stops and says, "I've got to make a cost-benefit analysis [of] what ways it is enriching my life, [and] in what ways it is undermining it."'"
No wonder they hate the Internet (Score:5, Informative)
It lets people find out things like this [guardian.co.uk]
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like they're trying to help people figure out how to USE the internet to their benefit, not how to censor it. Did you read a completely different article?
Re:No wonder they hate the Internet (Score:5, Informative)
Does this one work? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/29/brooklyn-orthodox-jews-child-abuse-cover-up-feature [guardian.co.uk]
It is not just about pornography (Score:5, Informative)
Just keep in mind that the second you start talking about fucking with MY internet
Jews do not generally go around telling non-Jews what to do with their personal lives. If you take a look at the Talmud, there are sections that deal with how Jews should live when they are surrounded by non-Jews; the Talmud was written at a time when non-Jews were pagans whose rituals would be disgusting by modern standards, but the Talmud only commands Jews to stay away from pagan temples and to be careful about letting pagans become to "familiar" with a Jew's animals, and some regulations about wines and eating utensils that might be used by pagans. Note that the Talmud does not command Jews to stop pagans from practicing their religions or to judge them for their rituals. As long as you are not bringing your laptop full of pornography into an ultra-orthodox community, they really do not care what you are doing or what sort of information is on your computer network.
It isn't just porn (Score:5, Informative)
It isn't just porn. The charedi(ultra-orthodox) are having serious troubles with people leaving the fold due to simply learning about things on the internet, like evolution and the age of the Earth. Many of them don't become outright atheists or agnostics but instead transition to being some form of Modern Orthodox, or Yeshivish. But for most of the ultra-Orthodox population that's about as close to as bad as completely abandoning the religion. In some respects it is worse, because when they stay some form of Orthodox, it is a lot harder to get friends and families to shun a person who leaves, which means the person now becomes an influx of new ideas into the community. It also doesn't help the charedim, that there are organizations like Footsteps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footsteps_(organization) [wikipedia.org] specifically geared to getting people to leave the fold.
Incidentally, it seems that people commenting on this article are slightly confused about terminology. Chassidic or hassidic is not a synonym for ultra-orthodox. The Chassidim are a specific movement founded around 1800 that have specific belief sets and communal organizations where each sect centers around a Rabbinic dynastic that leads that sect. Chassidim are essentially a subset of ultra-orthodox. The more general term for ultra-orthodox as whole is "charedi" (or in the plural "charedim"), although in some contexts that term is used to mean ultra-orthodox who aren't chassidic.
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:2, Informative)
That is the most inaccurate and ill-informed thing I've read today (although it is early here). I don't agree with the practice, but how do you equate "men and women on different sides of the room" with "will beat or slice off parts of women's bodies if they try to read or drive"? Remember that the people discussed in the article are an extreme subset of Judaism- the vast majority of Jews have zero problems with female participation in public life.
Also note that they're not saying websites they don't like shouldn't exist, they're just sharing info on how to avoid them.
Re:Listen to Schlomo (from TFA) (Score:4, Informative)
It's not anti-semitic really. Muslims don't do pork either. Maybe it's anti-anti-pork.
Anti-Salmonellaism is revolting. All of you White Meat Supremists with your $/lb flags and ham slogans and bacon guns...
MMmm.... bacon.
Who said they hate the Internet? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.chabad.org/ [chabad.org]
This conference is about deciding what sort of rules should be applied to the Internet within the ultra-orthodox community, not banning the Internet all together. As for the issue of child molestation, yes, it is a problem within the community; and guess what? There are Jews standing outside of the conference protesting its purpose and demanding that the issue of child molestation be addressed first. So much for hating the Internet.
You know what the worst thing you can do is? Point fingers at the ultra-orthodox and scream about child molestation, since that is exactly what they are afraid of happening if people speak about it outside of their community -- you are basically validating what they are saying to themselves when they keep it a secret. How about we take the rational approach and just bring child molesters to court, where they can be tried and sentenced like anyone else, without shouting about how they are Jewish?
Re:Either you can control yourself, or you can't (Score:5, Informative)
If you are saying that you need filtering or censoring software, then you are saying you can't trust yourself to follow your beliefs.
Judaism has a concept of a "geder", a "fence" around a law to prevent oneself from getting close to violating it. For example, one is supposed to avoid being in a room alone with a woman one is not married to or related to, to prevent temptation. The geder isn't there to stop someone determined to violate the law, it's there to prevent a situation from casually escalating.
I suspect that these folks are viewing filtering software as a geder.
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:4, Informative)
Orthodox Jews don't rape nine-year olds
Well, some of them do, and if the the act is reported to authorities, the victims and those reporting the crime are shunned [nytimes.com], since the authorities are not kosher and the group must hold together.
Re:Listen to Schlomo (from TFA) (Score:4, Informative)
I can understand his point of view. Jewish, Muslim, or Vegan, there's something serious wrong about not liking bacon.
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:1, Informative)
This "tradition" is almost as savage as the Taliban's treatment of women. This state of affairs saddens me very much.
"Almost" is not appropriate here. Orthodox Jews don't rape nine-year olds, kidnap girls of other religions, stone rape victims to death for adultery, etc. A backward prachice? Yes. Savage like Islam? No.
Yes it is. Religion is religion no mater the name. They are all depraved freaks willing to commit untold atrocities in the name of their made up god.
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:5, Informative)
Every bigger religion has had bad apples, that's true. What's unique about Islam is that their leader Muhammed himself raped, enslaved, kidnapped, murdered and at least ordered people to stone in his name. This is pretty well documented in Hadith, an important source of Islamic knowledge for every interpretation of Islam as far as I know.
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:4, Informative)
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:4, Informative)
>>>Sounds like they're trying to help people figure out how to USE the internet to their benefit, not how to censor it. Did you read a completely different article?
I guess. "Despite this new openness, the rabbis involved insist they still oppose the Internet. 'The purpose of the [gathering] is for people to realize how terrible the Internet is and, of course, the best thing for every [good Jew] is not to allow it in his home at all,' Rabbi Matisyahu Salomon told the Brooklyn Orthodox daily Hamodia. Salomon, spiritual guide of Beth Medrash Govoha, a large and prominent ultra-Orthodox yeshiva in Lakewood, N.J., is one of the lead sponsors of the CitiField rally. Internet without a filter, he told the paper, is 'treif gamur,' or completely unkosher."
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/156102/orthodox-rally-for-a-more-kosher-internet/?p=all#ixzz1vWBF4YoT [forward.com]
Re:Welcome to Gaza (Score:1, Informative)
Don't even get me started on the UN School bombing where they killed all those civilians
Do you mean the one where the terrorists were using the school to launch rockets, knowing the Israelis would fire back? I know, it all started when the Israelis returned fire. And how many of 'all those' were actually terrorists, and how many were civilians the terrorists forced at gunpoint to stand near the rocket launchers?
Re:Brooklyn's Orthodox child abuse (Score:5, Informative)
I read this story as well, and the ongoing coverage on the NYT. The story isn't the abuse itself, by "one or two abberent (sic) individuals", but the fact that when one or two parents reported the rabbi in question, they were ostracized by everyone in the community. Not all Jews are ultra-orthodox, but there seems to be some kind of omertà in effect when it comes to reporting religious authorities to the police.
Re:...Or you could just not go to porn sites (Score:5, Informative)
Well, living in Jerusalem my experience is rather different.
A while back they used to have these huge protest over the opening of a parking lot on Saturday, blocking off streets burning trash containers, a friend of mine told me that one day he was driving home they actually rolled a burning trash container onto the road and he almost hit it.
There was this whole thing about their treatment of women in the news a few months ago, exemplified by grown men spitting on a nine year old girl on her way to school because she wasn't dressed modestly enough for them.
A deli that I lived down the street from got vomit smeared on its doors because it sells non-kosher meat.
And the list goes on.
You might not hear of Jewish suicide bombers anytime soon but the fundamentalists around here certainly don't think their rules only apply to themselves.
And personally I'm planning to move somewhere else before they become the majority around here and start passing these things into law.