Tesla Delivers First Batch of Model S Electric Sedans 311
After years of tantalizing pictures and promises, on Friday the first 10 Model S sedans left Tesla's Fremont, California factory. This first handful of the new S has long been spoken for, and the cars have been delivered (or are on the way) to buyers around the U.S. Even with tax-supported subsidies, the new sedan isn't cheap: the subsidized base price is just under $50,000. Still, 10,000 people have put down five grand apiece for the chance to own one. Wired has a brief piece on what the S is like to drive. What's a 160-miles-per-charge, $50k car worth to you?
To streamline future posts (Score:5, Interesting)
Just to save some time and energy for posts to come. Yes it's over 20K so you aren't interested.
Why can't they make one for under 20K? Batteries are too expensive.
160 miles isn't enough? It wasn't made with you in mind.
Gasoline suits me fine! Then be prepared for $5 and eventually $10 a gallon. Oil is running out and it will happen eventually. If you get solar panels to recharge from the cost of sunlight never goes up and the trend is for solar panels to get cheaper.
Re:Amazing electric car, but (Score:4, Interesting)
large flickr thread just about that:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/7408464122 [flickr.com]
by the guy who got VIN # 1
Re:To streamline future posts (Score:5, Interesting)
Or we could, you know, move toward public transportation in big way - it absolutely excels in high-density urban areas. Want a fast conversion without a lot of expensive infrastructure? Simply set aside one lane on every multi-lane street as a dedicated bus lane and then make sure the drivers stay on schedule (via carrot and/or stick). The resultant increase in both bus speed and automotive congestion would instantly make buses considerably faster, cheaper, and more convenient than cars, strongly incentivizing their use. They technique has proven quite popular pretty much everywhere it's been done, after the initial adjustment period has past.
Re:Solar panels will get more expensive (Score:4, Interesting)
Why not use solar energy to produce the solar panels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_Solar_Breeder_Project [wikipedia.org]
Tesla compared to other electric cars and hybrids (Score:3, Interesting)
I was recently in the market for a new car and I had the chance to research several of the electric and plugin hybrids on the market and test drive them. I'll brain dump some of my research here in case someone else finds it useful.
Tesla Model S - The car looks really awesome, and I loved the styling of it. It is quite expensive with the base model starting at just under $50k after a $7,500 federal tax credit. The big reason I didn't but this was that the base model isn't even out yet. They are manufacturing the signature series first which is the fancier model with the giant 85 kwH battery pack. Also, I live in Arizona which doesn't yet have a Tesla showroom to see/drive the car or a service center to service it. You would have to pay a mechanic per mile to come out and service it. Scottsdale, AZ is getting a showroom and a service station later this year though.
Nissan Leaf - I test drove the leaf, and as with most electric cars this thing was pretty zippy. If you haven't had a chance to test drive an electric car yet I highly recommend trying it. Having 100% of your torque at 0 RPM is very nice. The main disadvantage to the Leaf is the only 100 mile range. I drive between Tucson and Phoenix often enough that this is impractical for me. I would imagine that for many people in large cities or on the east coast where things are closer together this would be more practical.
Chevy Volt - I really like the design of the engine of the Chevy Volt. An electric drive train with a range extending ICE is a good design that I think other plugin hybrids should pick up and run with. You could design the ICE to be optimized to run at a constant RPM and be way more efficient. The electric range on the Volt was between 25-50 miles with an average of 35 miles. This was actually an excellent range for my daily commute of 26 miles. I could in theory have driven the Volt almost entirely on electricity and only used gasoline very rarely. It has a few mechanisms to support using almost no gasoline. First if the gas engine hasn't come on at all in 6 weeks then it will briefly engage the gas engine to make sure everything stays lubricated and in good condition. Also the gas becoming stale in the tank can be an issue. In general you would want to go through a tank of gas at least once a year. Ultimately I didn't like the cargo space on the Volt and the fact that it only seats 4 people as the center rear position is taken up by the battery running down the center of the car.
Great comparison of the Volt vs. the Plugin Prius:
http://gm-volt.com/2012/04/13/cost-per-mile-comparison-2012-volt-vs-2013-prius-plug-in/
Plugin Prius - This was the car I was leaning towards getting for a while. It's probably the most practical of the other cars that I looked into. I was already a fan of the amazing gas mileage the regular Prius gets and it is a tried and tested technology. Even if you never plugged in the vehicle then you could drive it like a regular Prius and get great gas mileage. The cargo space on the Prius is pretty amazing (you can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in there). One drawback is that to fit the new batteries in the plugin model they got rid of the spare tire. They give you basically a fancy fix-a-flat and then tell you not to use it because it will damage the tire pressure monitoring system which costs $600 to fix. However the biggest drawback is the price. While it's only about $3,000 more than a comparably equipped regular Prius, you have to get a bunch of options that I didn't care about. The base model plugin Prius starts at $32k with a $2,500 Federal tax credit putting the final cost at $29,500. The base model (Package 2) Prius costs only $24,000. You do get some features like the navigation system, voice activated dialing, and Entune but all of that are worthless options if you have a smart phone. If I could have bought the plugin prius with the package 2 options for only $3k more then I would have done that, but as it stands it would've been $5,500 more for the plugi
Re:To streamline future posts (Score:5, Interesting)
I have mixed feelings about mass public transportation. My largest complaint is that it is a whole bunch of hurry up and wait, where personal vehicle which do point to point travel is legitimately seen as desirable, where you don't need to worry about making connections or fighting transportation system schedules just to make appointments.
I've seen some public transportation systems that act very much like a Taxi service providing point to point travel at prices approaching bus transit or cheaper, so it is possible. The largest problem with such a system is that it requires a significant build-out of infrastructure before it becomes something useful.
Regardless, while some people like living in ant farms like Manhattan (how it is sort of viewed from outside), there are many who don't as well. It is one thing to say it should become more economical for people to move into a situation of high density urban living, but from a standpoint of basic liberties it shouldn't be something forced on people either. I'm also not convinced that the economics of moving most of the world's population into such high density urban lifestyles is even possible to make work without a larger infrastructure in place elsewhere that also needs a fairly large population of people in medium or low density housing.
Re:If you`re buying one of these . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
I've owned a German luxury sedan and wasn't so impressed - the build quality is fine, but there's a lot of hype too. Ultimately, most cars sold in America are built in America, and you can't judge a car by where the stockholders live. I seriously considered the S before I bought my current (Japanese) car, and the only reason I didn't get the Tesla was fears about reliability: at this price range, I can't afford a back-up car.
The Tesla looks great - it and the much more expensive Jaguars are the best looking sedans out there IMO. The performance is great, and it has the tech toys to match Inifinit and BMW (which Jaguar doesn't have yet). If the 160 mile range is real, that reaches the sweet spot where I can make my long commute and still run errands if I need to.
If I were the early-adopter sort, I'd have ordered an S, and if Tesla makes it I'll likely be choosing them next time around.
Re:To streamline future posts (Score:4, Interesting)
Just wondering here, is there any reason why Tesla isn't going for other high-end electric vehicle markets?
Specific markets would include things like Delivery vans (like the local delivery trucks used by UPS, DHL, and FedEx), short haul semi-tractors, and other kinds of larger vehicles that would seem like perfect markets for electric vehicles that have a need for real performance. I realize that other companies are getting into those areas as well and that is just a pure business decision on entering such markets, but it would seem like those are some markets where a company making relatively few editions of a high-priced vehicle could work out better than trying to break into the mass consumer market. Other automobile manufacturers have gone into those markets (for gasoline or even diesel powered vehicles), so it isn't that big of a stretch.
Re:To streamline future posts (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm jealous. I really am.
We have public transport in my city too. There's a website which allows you to plan your trip. It comes up with such useful things as "Get on train at 5:30, get to Central Station at 6:00" OR option B: "Get on train at 5:00, go two stops forward, get off train, wait for next train, get to Central Station at 6:00"
Not that this matters. The published timetables are complete works of fiction anyway, for trains as well as buses. Buses also have another feature where they frequently fill up and start skipping stops unless someone was willing to get off which makes it impossible to catch a bus into the city during peak hour if you live close to the city.
Then there was the classic pricing problems. $4.50 one person one way for a train ticket. My mate and I don't even bother. I don't have a NFC card. It's too expensive. On a weekend some of the parking garages in the city charge a flat rate of $15. It's cheaper, faster and more certain to simply drive if more that one person is going.
The stupid thing is this is the best the public transport has ever been. 10 years ago we used to joke about not needed to go to theme parks as a bus ride would outdo the thrill and fear of even the highest roller-coaster. I tried to cycle everywhere, except my city isn't built for it and the road rage here is incredible.
At least the car I bought has a tiny 1.4L engine so it's cheap to run.
Re:Electric Fuel more expensive (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously there is the environmental question too but to be able to answer that you would have to now the environmental impact of manufacturing the battery pack as well as the electricity to charge it. My guess would be that the Tesla would come out on top overall but probably not by a lot (but that is a pure guess).
My wife wants to order either the X or S. We crunched the numbers just for the S @ $50, using the day rate of Xcel (.11/kwh). What it comes out to, is that compared to any other care that costs $35K on up, the S kills it. It is when you compare the S to cars under $30K. Of course, that is like comparing a Mercedes to a Cruiz or an apple to a boat. IOW, these are all different groups. There really is NO comparison. So, you want to compare the S against $40-65K cars. And the tesla comes WAY out on top. Simple as that.
Now, the costs of the battery is a none issue. Tesla's are warrentied for 8 years. So, the question becomes, what did batteries look like 8 years ago, and what will they look like 8 years out? Well, 12 years ago the EV-1 had just died, which used Lead Acid and then NiMH. The Gas powered Hybrids came about 6 years ago, and they STILL use NiMH batteries.
IBM is saying that they are working on Li-air batteries and expect to have them in production by 2020, which is 8 years out. These are expected to have about 5-10K charges, and in terms of charge density, will hold 5-15x what today's batteries hold. Heck, even now, there is a new Li battery out that has double the energy denisty, takes fast charges without a hitch and has some 2K+ charges for the same price.