How a 3-Year-Old Can Open a Gun Safe 646
New submitter bupbin writes "We are providing a detailed report and analysis of eleven different popular gun safes produced by Stack-On, GunVault, and Bulldog to warn the public of the dangers inherent in some of these products because the manufacturers nor their major retailers will do so. In that report you can view eight different Stack-On models, one produced by Bulldog, and one manufactured by GunVault. A similar design defect is demonstrated in an inexpensive safe for storing valuables that is sold by AMSEC, a very reputable safe manufacturer in the United States. Unfortunately, their digital safe with their claim of a 'state-of-the-art electronic lock' can also be opened (literally) by a three-year-old because of a common mechanism used in the industry that is subject to circumvention."
they aren't safes (Score:5, Informative)
Umm... the StackOn, etc. aren't safes. They are locking steel boxes, kinda flimsy, no fire rating, not UL listed, etc.
Compare with products from Liberty, Cannon, etc.
Re:what is a "gun safe"? (Score:4, Informative)
It's a safe whose dimensions and interior is specifically designed for storing firearms.
Re:gun safe? (Score:5, Informative)
Not correct.
A gun is designed to kill other things, not explicitly people, though people are often the target.
This is something that gets me very unhappy with the gun control crowd. A pistol *IS* an indispensable farm implement.
(Ever tried to shoot a pack of coyotes eating your spring calves using a bolt action rifle? You tend to get only one of the bastards, and then you end up losing another calf the next night. Something more rapid fire and quick to handle is required for effective pest control.)
warranty of fitness for a particular purpose (Score:5, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty [wikipedia.org]
Those safes are not fit for their intended purpose.
Start suing.
Re:gun safe? (Score:4, Informative)
I own no guns designed to kill other people. One is designed to kill small game, another to kill turkeys and another for deer.
What sort of guns are you buying?
I compare them because they are both deadly in the wrong hands.
Re:gun safe? (Score:4, Informative)
A pistol is not the right tool for this job.
You want an SKS or if you have more money a Mini-30. Coyotes are small enough that even cheap FMJs are quite effective.
Re:gun safe? (Score:0, Informative)
(Ever tried to shoot a pack of coyotes eating your spring calves using a bolt action rifle? You tend to get only one of the bastards, and then you end up losing another calf the next night. Something more rapid fire and quick to handle is required for effective pest control.)
Stupidest thing I've ever heard right there. You want accuracy and you want quick reloads. Coyotes aren't going to let you get close enough for a pistol to be effective. Smart farmers use semi-automatic rifles and if you'd prefer a safer weapon and are willing to take your time shooting, a pump action or lever action gun. Pistols and handguns have one purpose: shooting humans. They offer neither accuracy nor shorter time between shots -- in fact the recoil on the pistol is greater than on a rifle so your aim is worse. Handguns are used for their ability to be concealed and portability -- distinctly non-farm traits that are instead better suited for shooting other humans at close range.
Re:gun safe? (Score:0, Informative)
Guns owned by private owners mostly kill or hurt innocent animals or people.
Leaving aside questions of innocence, that is most certainly false. There are more rounds of ammunition expended, more man hours of gun handling, and likely more total guns involved, in the Knob Creek machine gun shoot, than over the course of all hunting seasons in the US combined, along with all homicides involving firearms. Let along other shooting event like the hundreds of GSSF shoots, the Grand American Trap Shoot, etc etc etc.
But thinking more broadly, there are many millions of people on the earth who will never ride in a car in their lifetimes and certainly don't use one for a commute. They are luxury items meant for rich people. Why is their indulgence worth the thousands of lives lost every year? And what about computers? Most, in private hands, are used for dinking around on the internet and largely pointless communication. And hacking. So why not eliminate hacking by banning privately owned computers? It isn't like we will lose much.
Re:gun safe? (Score:3, Informative)
More stupid non-gunowner talk right above me.
You do realize they sell handguns for hunting right?
Large frame revolvers are well suited to such a task. If the recoil is so great as to be a problem the shooter has selected a round to large for them to safely handle.
Pump actions nor lever guns are any safer than a large single action revolver.
Re:gun safe? (Score:0, Informative)
Pump actions nor lever guns are any safer than a large single action revolver.
You should probably go back to your gun safety training class (if you ever took it). The mere physics of how easily it is to unintentionally point a handgun makes them more dangerous to their owners and flat out less safe. The safest guns require a mechanic action in between shots and effort to point the gun in any direction.
Try committing suicide with a lever action Winchester. Now try committing suicide with a large single action revolver. Notice any differences?
"Real gun owner" - right (Score:5, Informative)
A real gun owner would know this.
1) The guy whose kids got into the lockbox was a cop.
2) The lockbox had been issued to him by his police department.
Re:what is a "gun safe"? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:gun safe? (Score:5, Informative)
The odds of my being killed by a gun have almost no relationship to whether I own one myself.
Actually, they do. People with guns in the home are around twice as likely to be murdered and 10 times as likely do die of suicide as people without guns (source [oxfordjournals.org]). People carrying guns are about 5 times as likely to get shot as people who aren't carying guns (source [nih.gov]). This is not even considering accidental shootings. You say you're "not the sort of idiot who is likely enough to shoot myself by accident," and I hope you're right, but I doubt many accidental shooters thought they were either.
Re:News For Nerds??!! (Score:4, Informative)
Cue up the comments that have nothing to do with this story and use it to further their own political agendas.
Like, er, yours?
How is this really news for nerds? That's an easy one: it's about three year old hardware hackers! What I'd like to know, is what idiots moderated that useless comment "insightful?" You could probably get more insight from a three year old hardware hacker!
This isn't a "guns are bad, mkay" story, this is a "some engineers really fucked up" story.
as a gun owner (Score:4, Informative)
As far as the safe goes? It's supposed to be bolted to a concrete floor you morons. You've got a loaded gun, in a safe that's not bolted down, you're really lucky the gun didn't just go off INSIDE the damned safe while the kids were bumping it around. And no, the safe probably wouldn't stop the round. Read the directions next time.