GNOME: Staring Into the Abyss 535
New submitter zixxt writes "GTK+ Developer Benjamin Otte talks about the stagnation and decline of the Gnome Project. He describes how core developers are leaving GNOME development, how GNOME is understaffed, why GNOME is a Red Hat project and why GNOME is losing market and mind share. Is the Gnome project on its deathbed? Quoting: 'I first noticed this in 2005 when Jeff Waugh gave his 10×10 talk. Back then, the GNOME project had essentially achieved what it set out to do: a working Free desktop environment. Since then, nobody has managed to set new goals for the project. In fact, these days GNOME describes itself as a “community that makes great software”, which is as nondescript as you can get for software development. The biggest problem with having no goals is that you can’t measure yourself. Nobody can say if GNOME 3 is better or worse than GNOME 2. There is no recognized metric anywhere. This also leads to frustration in lots of places.'"
Reason? GNOME3 (Score:5, Interesting)
GNOME was a good thing until version 3. It changed everything. The warning signs were there for years before. The attitude of a few dictating what was 'best' for the users, even when the users were screaming NO! NO! NO! started with the GNOME2 rewrite. They finally listened to some of the loudest arguments that time and restored enough functionality that it could become the standard Free Desktop.
GNOME3 turned that stupid up to eleven though, putting it a whole different category. It is explicitly declared it OK if any/all existing users leave, a pure "my way to the highway" deal. It is pretty much accepted that it is unusable on a standard desktop with a mouse and this isn't debatable as an issue in need of repair. The only rational explanation is that somehow, someone in that project assumes they are going to get an OEM preload deal on tablets somewhere. But GNOME's hardware requirements are higher than Android so it won't be some low end creep into the market through the back door deal, it will have to be on somebody's mid to top end hardware. Maybe RedHat has struck the deal in secret already and we are all going to be in awe of their mad negotiating skills. But it isn't the way to bet.
Or perhaps they assume that Win8 will force everyone to accept touchscreens and everything running maximized... even on 27" displays... so they just want to be there first, like how Compiz was doing the Vista eye candy a year or so before Vista shipped. Doubtful. If Win8 doesn't quickly get a recognizable default desktop on desktop class hardware users will just insist on Win7. Everything doesn't benefit from a touchscreen, keyboards and mice still have a place and aren't likely to go the way of the dodo anytime soon.
Guess if the article is right about the number of active devs left it really doesn't matter anymore because there doesn't appear to be enough left to rewrite their way out the the GNOME Shell disaster. Several of the alternates have similar manpower except KDE which has much more. It was a good desktop, it will be missed.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:3, Interesting)
People love complaining about Gnome Shell. I'm sure that the number of people that have been converted to Linux because of Gnome Shell greatly outnumber the gnome/start menu diehards from the 1990. What is actually preventing you from using Gnome Shell with a mouse? I do it everyday on 2 computers and 4 screens. Controls are logical and the default settings customise the desktop to you - virtual desktops are created automatically, you can drag and drop windows between desktops in the windows screen, and so on. Animations are smooth and the whole design works around the lack of support for minimized composite windows in X.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah... MATE is GNOME now, far as I'm concerned.
-uso.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm feeding a troll, but here are the few no go's I have personally ran in to. The lack of configuration options are enough by themself but these are functionality that is lost. Over and under dual monitors doesn't work, such as a laptop panel as the primary lower and secondary monitor above. No go.. can't move apps through the ENFORCED top bar. Static IP addresses can't be done with the gui with default software. When trying to add Network printers from the gui, it doesn't allow you to see properties for each printer until AFTER it has been added, so no way from the gui to tell which printer is which in the list if you have multiple printers of the same model on the same network. You have to use the CUPS web interface. The old gnome 2 printer additions dialogs and wizards were just fine. The programmers are idiot control freaks..... their way or the highway.. at least cinnamon restores some level of sanity to the gnome 3 desktop.
Re:MATE (Score:4, Interesting)
Hopefully those developers leaving GNOME are heading over to work on MATE. Hopefully.
I'd love to use MATE, but I don't want to get invested when it's still essentially someone's personal project.
KDE4 or XFCE for me, meanwhile. I keep flirting with fluxbox too, but I miss some of the more integrated aspects of a full DM like KDE.
Unity wins (Score:4, Interesting)
Everybody was all up in arms with Ubuntu went with Unity. It was a head scratcher for a lot of folks unless you think about it from their point of view. The desktop is arguably the most important part - if users don't like it, that's it baby game over. Now imagine putting your whole product's future in the hands of Gnome or KDE. Those teams are like herds of ADHD children running amok with knives. KDE and Gnome had a decade to get their act together, they missed the boat on a Windows CE epic scale.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:5, Interesting)
The one thing I like on gnome 3 is pushing the mouse cursor up in the upper left and getting a choice of windows. But other than that, it makes things harder.
I tried for a while to find a way to have a CPU and Network monitor like you could have it docked on a panel in gnome 2 but finally gave up.
I also often use more than one terminal window, but when you click on the terminal icon in the apps list, it just takes you back to the terminal you already have open.
For vitual desktops, I personally prefer a fixed layout... email and web browser in upper left, work vitrual computer in lower left, etc. The ever-changing dynamic list doesn't work well for me.
The worst is that I can't get it to behave right with my laptop and external monitor. Laptops today come with shitty short screens, so when I work at home, I keep the lid closed and just use my external monitor. Gnome3 can't seem to grasp this and always assumes the laptop's monitor is the primary monitor, so I can't reach the widgets, menus, etc. Sure, I can muck with the display settings to fix it during a session, but I have to do it all over again if I reboot or need to open the lid for some reason.
For me, it just has an illogical way of doing things and completely breaks my work flow.
I've used a lot of linux variants over the years, but I don't really enjoy having to keep figuring out all the obscure ways to get it work right again... over and over.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, I felt the same way a year ago. I still wish it was more tweakable, but the extensions are helping. I am much faster at getting around my desktop in Gnome-Shell than I am with Gnome2. Reason being is I can do more with just the keyboard.
I was a big Gnome-Do user. That's pretty much built-in now. I don't have to touch my mouse to move around apps. Their Alt+Tab feature is pretty slick. It shows Chromium and Alt+~ moves through the multiple instances I have open (OK so I don't usually have more than one thanks to tabs, but as an example...)
It's a bigger resource hog, but I have 12GB of RAM in the box I run it on. It doesn't feel that polished, but I really have few serious problems.
What they should be doing is focusing on the extensions paradigm. Let people create extensions to turn it into whatever type of system they want. If you want a traditional taskbar, get an extension. Distros could apply whatever extensions they want to create varying types of "Gnome". That would give them some direction that they say the project has lost.
It wasn't GNOME 3 (Score:4, Interesting)
The day that Miguel abandoned it and handed the reins to Havoc was the day the music died. That was the start of a downward spiral that never ended. What was the users' DE became Czar Havoc's DE. Shortly thereafter I switched to XFCE and never looked back.
GNOME3 and one other thing (Score:5, Interesting)
GNOME 3 represents the kind of "I'm not going to listen to the users" once displayed by XFree86. But there are other problems as well. Recently I have come to realize that there is a problem that few have noticed.
Imagine an application and an OS sharing the same libraries... not unusual in some instances, but I have come to realize that I can't run GiMP 2.8.0 on CentOS 6.x because the GTK and related libraries and dependencies are so connected with GNOME that all of GNOME needs to be upgraded in order to be able to run the application! While that's not 100% true in that I was able to compile all the needed libraries in /opt/gnome-2.8, the resulting compiled code doesn't integrate well with my existing GNOME 2.x desktop. It's frustrating and annoying. The operating environment shouldn't be such that it conflicts with applications. Someone wasn't paying attention to certain unexpected consequences. So here I sit with Windows having better support for GiMP than a current Linux distribution. Sad and pathetic.
GNOME is breaking my heart with all of this. I was quite loyal to its use but damn... GNOME3, then Unity? People have made it clear they don't want this. They keep going as if by forcing it down our thoats, we will learn to accept it. The missing ingredient here is CRITICAL MASS. Critical mass is the main ingredient in Microsoft's disgusting recipe. We all hate it but we eat it because there's nothing else. GNOME doesn't have that ingredient. Whatever they are trying to do isn't going to work and will result in their becoming another failed project... another lesson learned in failed Linux projects.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:3, Interesting)
I have two suggestions for people when it come to those. Lower level people get LXDE and higher level get Xfce. Personally, I flip between which I like more. LXDE has more windows-like UI features, which makes going between the two easier; Xfce always seems to follow what I want, rather than fighting it or figuring out how it wants me to do it.
I finally mostly like Gnome 3.4 (Score:5, Interesting)
Gnome 3.0 had me trying out various tiling window managers to get rid of the horrible Shell.
Gnome 3.2 came out and I went back to the Shell. I needed a ton of extensions to get a usable desktop.
Now, with 3.4, all I need to add is a direct shortcut to each desktop. Alas, the GUI offers me shortcuts only for the first four desktops, but at least it is possible to set shortcuts for all of them on the command line. I no longer have any extensions installed. Super + typing part of the application name is wonderful.
All in all, 3.4 is IMHO nicer than Gnome 2. The road to get there has been horrendous and it may have cost too many users and developers for Gnome to be viable in the future. I hope Gnome will survive, because it is the best desktop I have tried so far.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:4, Interesting)
PREACH IT BROTHER!
I was a 4 year user of linux (RedHat, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mandriva, and Yellow Dog off the top of my head) until Gnome 3 came along. Then the configuration became a chore every time I wanted to use my home computer. Then I switched jobs into a position which forces Win7 use. Then I wanted to play Borderlands with a few friends of mine. Then I was/am writing a dissertation across the library/home/work/school/travel computers and need EndNote and Word to work.
My computer still dual-boots, but it has been over 9 months since I've booted to Linux.
I was using Linux when it easy, and wasn't getting in the way. Now I use Windows 7 for the same reason. I will happily switch in the event that things reverse themselves again.
Re:Desktop Environment Fad is finally ending. (Score:2, Interesting)
Should't that be a function of the operating system? It always seemed to me that GNOME and KDE were taking over functions that were originally implemented in the OS, and doing them their own way, incompatible with everything else. That was one of the reason why I gave up on them long time ago, and purged as many GNOME and KDE components from my system as i could, while still the few applications that I find useful.
Re:Unity wins (Score:5, Interesting)
Except that Unity is absolutely the worst kind of horror: unrepentant horror. They refuse to acknowledge that they've done wrong. I work in a company with a strong Linux element, and while ubuntu is the preferred distro, nobody runs unity. Describing KDE or Gnome as having run amok is somewhat unfair, the desktop in Linux has improved significantly over the past decade. I doubt they achieved all their goals, but they have achieved something significantly positive.
A lemming should be the Gnome mascot. (Score:5, Interesting)
It was Gnome that convinced me to jump over to Linux once I'd decided to abandon Windows completely. I'd looked at OS/X but I couldn't make head nor tail of it, everything was awkward on the Mac. Gnome 2 with all the eye candy working was a thing of beauty and everythiing either just worked or could be got to work with a quick web search - I can't believe I'm writing that about Linux but there it is.
It was Unity that pushed me away from Ubuntu, and Gnome 3 that pushed me away from Gnome. KDE is not easy and it's not logical but I've come to love it and it has grown up. Yesterday I plugged two monitors of different resolutions into a KDE machine and they just worked with no dead zone and wallpapers all fixed up for the new resolutions. That would not have happened even a year ago.
I'm installing Linux on a computer for a newbie this weekend and where once I would have put Gnome on it I am now putting Lubuntu onto it instead. If Gnome is staring into the abyss it is because it chose to - a lemming intent on its own demise. Ave atque vale, Gnome.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:5, Interesting)
I too am in a world where I there are things I HAVE to do in Windows, but I really prefer working in a Linux environment (especially when I find one I really like).
I used to dual-boot as well, but after a harddrive crash a couple years ago, I re-evaluated my set up and discovered VirtualBox. Virtualization had come a long way since I had last checked. So now I run strictly in Linux and have VBox virtual computers to run Windows XP and Windows 7 in as needed. I even managed to take an old work laptop and virtualized an image of its harddrive so I no longer have to carry a computer back and forth for work.
The nice thing with the virtual computing is you can easily back up the whole computer by just copying the virtual hard disk somewhere. You can also set up your windows working environment on another computer by just coping the virtual harddrive file and making a new virtual computer there.
VirtualBox also has pretty decent integration with the host computer (you can map directories on the host as drives on the guest) so it makes things pretty seamless. It's also the only way I can use my canon scanner, since there are no Linux drivers that work for it... and the same with my old Creative Zen mp3 player and iPod.
It might be worth looking into when you get a break from your dissertation.
I'm going back to grad school as well and since I'll be taking transit and biking, I got a netbook for my work at school. I tried Linux Mint on it and it's been a real pleasure to use... very few complaints, and I think those are more of an Acer issue than a Linux one. I don't dual boot on my home computer, but I did set up the netbook to dual boot into Windows 7... in case I really needed a native Windows 7, but I haven't needed it so far.
I just not as young and carefree as I used to be. Like you, I don't have as much time to trick-out my computer to get it just so... I just want it to work reliably.
Re:Reason? GNOME3 (Score:4, Interesting)
I switched to Xfce (on Fedora) without even trying Gnome 3.
I switched to a fork of Gnome 3 [wikipedia.org] that works and looks beautiful. Isn't it great when open source helps us users the way it's supposed to?