Is Phoenix the Next Silicon Valley? 555
SpicyBrownMustard writes "There's no secret to a rising level of 'Silicon Valley fatigue' lately, and the new reality show certainly isn't helping. And with hacker hostels packing in twenty somethings fueling the 'it's okay to fail' incubator culture that now is actually hurting startups, it's no wonder weariness with the culture is setting in. Forbes.com asks the question: Is Phoenix The Next Silicon Valley? The article covers a startup with a couple names you might know, who picked Phoenix due to its much lower cost of living and different quality of life. The startup's CTO, 'explains that having so much more financial freedom lowers the stress associated with working for a startup, as he can enjoy work/live balance.' Their location certainly didn't hurt fundraising, as they managed $2 million in seed capital. Are we indeed moving on from Silicon Valley for tech startups?"
Re:No, it isn't. (Score:5, Informative)
If only the Valley could cut its property prices by like 80%, then they might survive the next decade and still be on top :P. I'm sorry, but the cost of living there is just outrageous compared to more-reasonable places that are also full of hackers and startups.
Name one.
There's a reason why it's cheaper to live in Hicksville. It sucks out there. There's nothing to do.
There's a reason why it's expensive in the valley. It's awesome. It's where you can walk out of a tech job and still have thousands of other companies in the same field in the same metropolitan area that you can apply to. It's where you can go for lunch and overhear intelligent conversations everywhere. It has a buzz thanks to being full of people bouncing ideas off of each other and venture capital not too far away if investors see an opportunity that might go somewhere. It's where it's at. It has a pleasant climate. It has great outdoor pursuits close by. There's stuff to do. People want to live here.
"The valley" is not a sentient being with the power to "cut its property prices by like 80%", it's a highly south-after location and the wages in the place make it possible to live here.
Re:No, it isn't. (Score:3, Informative)
There's a reason why it's expensive in the valley. It's awesome. It's where you can walk out of a tech job and still have thousands of other companies in the same field in the same metropolitan area that you can apply to. It's where you can go for lunch and overhear intelligent conversations everywhere. It has a buzz thanks to being full of people bouncing ideas off of each other and venture capital not too far away if investors see an opportunity that might go somewhere. It's where it's at. It has a pleasant climate. It has great outdoor pursuits close by. There's stuff to do. People want to live here.
Where the heck do you live? I've been in Phoenix most of my life and the place you are describing is not Phoenix. Go for lunch and overhear intelligent conversations? Good lord, every conversation I hear in this place is in barely intelligible and broken English - and that's from the citizens! Most of the illegals speak better than the high school grads around here. The climate sucks. Phoenix is a case study in urban sprawl and heat bubble affects. Outdoor pursuits, really? There are outdoor pursuits as long as you get in your car with air conditioning and drive somewhere ELSE.
No, because Phoenix cannot attract talent. (Score:4, Informative)
In general, Phoenix is a boring place, and boring doesn't attract talent. For some reason, Phoenicians chose to build themselves a flat, heat-magnifying city of asphalt and concrete in an already hot location, instead of shade trees and tall buildings to help block the sunlight. Consequently, there are few vibrant, walkable areas (downtown Tempe is/was a notable exception), and there's not much to do in the summer except watch TV or go to the theater, the mall, or a water park.
No, Phoenix isn't a good tech incubator. Phoenix is where you move your company after you've completed the real innovation and you just need cheap labor to keep the business running.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:3, Informative)
Life time Arizona resident here.
Actually the high tech industry is thriving here. It's as easy to get immigrants to work here as anywhere else. I should know, I work for a fortune 100 tech company who is based out of Phoenix, and we have a fair share of immigrant employees. Arizona only discriminates against illegal immigration. And it's not just white people that do it, even the legal immigrants have a problem with illegal immigration.
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:4, Informative)
Since you didn't bother to specify which, now disbanded, Arizonian "minutemen" group, there's the murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores by Shawna Forde (State of Arizona vs. Shawna Forde (court case number CR-20092300-001, Pima County)), the founder of the splinter group Minutemen American Defense, and Jason Bush (State of Arizona vs. Jason Eugene Bush (court case number CR-20092300-003, Pima County)).
Re:Arizona? No Thanks (Score:5, Informative)
Actually federal law already requires ALL immigrants to register and carry some form of documentation at all times, legal or otherwise. A green card will suffice.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1304 [cornell.edu]
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1306 [cornell.edu]
So the "papers please" argument already applies nationwide.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Informative)
There's a lot of drivel there that doesn't deserve comment ("very few decent places to eat"? are you old or broke?), but this is ridiculous:
It's been rated by several places as the worst city in America to drive in, mainly because it's so chaotic and because there's no consistent driving style (the frequent road-rage shootings don't help).
What's the problem, does the square NS-EW street grid confuse you? You're going to need to back up that claim, because Phoenix is nowhere near the worst cities to drive in:
http://fillmyemptyblogspace.com/2010/12/24/10-worst-american-cities-to-drive-in/ [fillmyemptyblogspace.com]
http://www.businessinsider.com/cities-with-most-car-crashes-2010-10?op=1 [businessinsider.com]
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/15-dangerous-cities-for-driving.html [yahoo.com]
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/22/going-nowhere-10-worst-u-s-cities-for-traffic/ [time.com]
In fact, if you look closely, you can see Chandler listed by Allstate as one of the safest cities to drive in.
violent home invasions are common
Define "common". The police claimed that for 2008 there were "over 300" home invasions and kidnappings (fewer than 1 per day, in an area with 4.2 million people), and that claim was investigated by the feds to see if it was exaggerated to get more funding:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2011/01/26/20110126phoenix-crime-stats-federal-audit.html [azcentral.com]
You can't bicycle here (one of my favorite outdoor activities) because of the heat most of the year
People bike here year round, Facebook posts from other people doing just that are proof. You choose not to, that doesn't mean other people don't do it also. There are people enjoying the Phoenix Mountain Preserve, Dreamy Draw, and South Mountain year round.
They used to have Mill Avenue in Tempe that was kinda fun to walk along, which used to have a bunch of quirky little independent shops, but the Tempe government drove all those out of business to make room for a bunch of mall stores and high-rises, which of course went south when the economy crashed, so most of the place is boarded up now.
Really? The main recreational area next to the largest university by enrollment in the country is boarded up now, huh? That's weird. [google.com]
This place sucks, and I can't wait to move out in a couple of months.
Neither can I. Let me know if you need help leaving.