Texas Opens Fastest US Highway With 85 MPH Limit 992
Hugh Pickens writes "Most highways in the U.S. top out at 75 mph, while some highways in rural West Texas and Utah have 80 mph speed limits. All that is about to change as Texas opens a stretch of highway with the highest speed limit in the country, giving eager drivers a chance to rip through a trip between two of the state's largest metropolitan areas at 85 mph for a 41-mile toll road between Austin and San Antonio. While some drivers will want to test their horsepower and radar detectors, others are asking if safety is taking a backseat. A 2009 report in the American Journal of Public Health found that more than 12,500 deaths were attributable to increases in speed limits on all kinds of roads and that rural highways showed a 9.1 percent increase in fatalities on roads where speed limits were raised. 'If you're looking at an 85 mph speed limit, we could possibly see drivers going 95 up to 100 miles per hour,' says Sandra Helin, president of the Southwestern Insurance Information Service. 'When you get to those speeds, your accidents are going to be a lot worse. You're going to have a lot more fatalities.'"
Rest of the world already ahead (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, that's 136km/h - that's what our recommended travelling speed (130) on the "Autobahn" is in Germany.
It has proven to be an excellent balance between emission (gears and cars are tuned to that speed), moving forward, but not braking too much due to other people's influences.
Once again I have deep mis-respect for you "best country in the world" guys.
It's an Effing Toll Road (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't get any simpler than that.
Autobahn (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad fact is that its not speed that kills, its differential speed. Unfortunately our drivers training here is not really up to the standards it should be with modern machines. If you look at Germany they take drivers ed a lot more seriously, as well as licencing, with 6 month courses costing thousands of dollars being the norm. As well the rules of the Autobahn are strictly enforced, if you're going slow in the left lane you WILL be pulled over, just as quick if not quicker than you would for "speeding". Same with sudden lane changes, and just general bad driving. Speed doesnt kill, dumb drivers do.
stupidest argument ever (Score:5, Insightful)
That happens anytime you raise the speed limit. from 55 to 65. from 45 to 55. from 10 to 20. We've already had this argument brought up multiple times, and you lost. Take that argument and go away.
Statistically speaking anyway, once you're hurtling down the road at 65 mph or faster, you're already well over the curve for speed-to-lethality tradeoff. Dropping your odds of survival from 2% to 1.8% really doesn't impress me that much.
Stay out of the left lane if you're not passing (Score:5, Insightful)
Just stay out of the left lane when not passing and driving will be much safer for everyone.
Apples and Oranges (Score:1, Insightful)
I've seen Autobahn drivers - they're mostly courtious, follow the rules, and usually don't do anything stupid.
Here we're talking about Americans - specifically Texans. Expect to see many many shoot outs, accidents, law suits and fatalities.
Re:Rest of the world already ahead (Score:1, Insightful)
The Autobahn is built and maintained to standards that the U.S. Interstate Highway System is not willing to pay for. The asphalt is twice as thick, for one thing. I've seen a video of an Autobahn construction crew and they were using a laser-level on poured concrete. That kind of thing doesn't happen with an American road crew.
Re:Rest of the world already ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, that's 136km/h - that's what our recommended travelling speed (130) on the "Autobahn" is in Germany. It has proven to be an excellent balance between emission (gears and cars are tuned to that speed), moving forward, but not braking too much due to other people's influences.
Once again I have deep mis-respect for you "best country in the world" guys.
From Expatica: [expatica.com]
Compare that to getting a license in the US:
- @ 15.5 yrs, take lame written exam
- @ 16 yrs, take lame driving "test" where you drive a couple laps around the city square or a big empty parking lot, then parallel park
That is pretty much all the training most US drivers get, which may explain why we have significantly higher accident rates than Germany, even with lower speed limits on highways.
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:4, Insightful)
Ehhh sorry, I have lived for nearly 20 years here and I would like to ask where these courtious, follow the rules and don't try to do anything stupid drivers are. You see I have a car that can, and have driven 250 KPH. Let me tell you there are more idiots out there than you let on. I can't tell you how often I have to slow down from 230 to 120 because a driver feels he has the right to a pass a truck doing 80. Yes folks trucks are allowed a maximum of 80.
You can drive safely at high speeds if people realize that you are driving at highspeeds and I will argue that even Americans clue into it.
Re:Autobahn (Score:3, Insightful)
Technically, its energy transfer, disruption of tissue, and blood loss. But, other aspects of the regulatory and transit context remaining constant, higher highway speed limits -> more differential speed -> more collisions producing energy transfer, tissue disruption, etc.
Well, yeah, better driving training, more selective admission criteria for the driving club, and more transit options so that people don't need to drive as much (all of which Germany -- and lots of other places -- have compared to the US) can all mitigate the increased danger of higher-speed driving.
But I don't see evidence that Texas is adopting those along with the raised speed limit, so that observation is irrelevant, or at least tangential to the immediate issue.
Re:stupidest argument ever (Score:5, Insightful)
Add that to research that suggests that many people drive at the speed they feel comfortable at, regardless of the posted limit, and it really is a very good question.
What is the point? Personally, I think its because some people like the idea of being able to pull over any car at will. Just keep the rules in that area where most people break a few as a matter of course, but not so egregious that its obvious thats what you are doing, and its both a money source and a source of arbitrary abuse of power.
I have heard it directly from cops mouths.... if they want to pull someone over, the standard wisdom is, all they have to do is watch them for a few minutes and they will find a reason. What does that say about the standards that are set?
Re:Nothing new (Score:5, Insightful)
Not necessarily. The problem with speed limits is they do not take into consideration the vehicle that's being driven, the vehicle's tires, or other various factors that contribute to the safety of those speeds.
I agree that it increases the potential for Darwinism, but just because one drives at 90-100 MPH on the freeway does not necessarily mean that he or she is driving any more risky than someone driving at 60. Those of us who value our own (and our family's) well being don't drive based entirely on the speed limit. In certain conditions, I drive much slower than the speed limit because that's what's wise. It would be nice if I were also allowed to drive faster when safe.. you know, to make up for the times that I had to drive slower.
Ultimately, I feel the real problem is that people have been trained to rely on the government to tell them what's right and wrong, what's safe and what's dangerous. It's total bullshit.
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was stationed in (middle-of-nowhere) Texas in 1987--8, the drivers were courteous to a fault, and pulling over onto the (fully paved) shoulder to allow a faster car overtaking one was the norm.
Re:Autobahn (Score:2, Insightful)
The German Autobahn's have no speed limits in rural areas. I have driven at 160 Kph (i.e., 100 mph) and been routinely passed by faster vehicles. In fact, if you are in the left lane at that speed, they may get pretty annoyed with you if you don't get over immediately.
Thanks, that reminded me of something I've been wanting to tell the people I share the roads with:
When you're piddling along in the left lane, and you see a car coming up on you fast, flashing their lights, it means you need to GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY - not slow down and stay in the passing lane, not pace the car next to you, and definitely not slam on your fucking brakes.
The next one of you monkey-fuckers that tries to kill me just because you're too goddamn selfish or stupid to understand why it's called the passing lane is getting run off the road and beaten with cudgels.
Capisce?
Re:Nothing new (Score:4, Insightful)
Come back when team medicine has advanced to the point where the other guy being held liable is sufficient to scrape my central nervous system off the steering column... Ideally, bring a population of replacement humans who don't have a hilariously dodgy risk-discounting algorithm as a matter of empirical fact...
Re:80's flashback (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Rest of the world already ahead (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, Germans take driving seriously and in my experience are probably better than most Americans. I know getting a license is more difficult there, and you never see anyone driving around eating a burger or talking on their cellphone. Even in the cities, people whip around very quickly, but I have never seen an accident during my stays.
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Rest of the world already ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Autobahn (Score:1, Insightful)
Both to you and the GP: Get the idea of "fast lanes" and "slow lanes" out of your heads. That's not what it is. It's a passing lane. Whether it's the Autobahn or a Pennsylvania highway, the passing lane is for passing only - it isn't just "slower traffic" that should keep right, it's ALL traffic. When you're in the passing lane, your only goals should be to overtake the vehicle(s) in the right lane, and then move back over ASAP. That's the law on the Autobahn, and it's on the books in most states even if they don't enforce it. Drive on the right, pass on the left.
There's nothing Darwin about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
There is nothing unsafe about driving very fast on roads designed for driving very fast. You are FAR safer driving on a restricted-access divided highway at 100 MPH than you are driving on a 45 MPH city street with cross traffic, or a country road. Especially now that many states are putting up those cables in the median that prevent cars from getting across into oncoming traffic.
Even the article summary has to grasp for straws in trying to provide a "balanced" summary.... this 85 MPH divided highway is apparently unsafe because.... driving fast on country roads increases fatalities!
But a divided highway is not a country road.
Accidents between two cars going in the same direction at relatively the same speed (+/- 10-15 mph) are rare. It's the car going 35 MPH+ one way that encounters another car going 35 MPH+ in a different direction (hed-on or cross traffic) that kills people. Divided highway fatalities are usually coming up on stopped traffic in fog or at night, or falling asleep and leaving the highway.
One more point to note ... if you're going to get in a single-car accident at 65 MPH and hit a pylon or something, you're dead. If you do it at 85 or 90 MPH, you're just REALLY dead. Same difference.
Re:There's nothing Darwin about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
65mph frontal crashes into a wall/pylon larger than the car's front are survivable in plenty of modern cars. Just barely, perhaps, but they are. Arguably, for such a "survivability", I'd much rather go 85MPH and not make it for sure.
Re:There's nothing Darwin about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Thing is, this isn't a politician, scientists, or institution saying this, it is the insurance companies. They tend to do a pretty good job of cutting through the BS since their profits are directly connected to actually things right.
And while it is true that such collisions are 'rare', they are still common enough to be a daily occurrence on most major highways
U.S. driver training (Score:4, Insightful)
If California is on par with the rest of the states wrt drivers tests, then yeah, having an autobahn (which I have driven on during a vacation) would be a very, very bad idea in the states. Driving is a privilege not a right, you should have to work hard to get it (learn to drive and be tested accordingly).
Be glad you're in California, it's actually got one of the better driver training & licensing programs in the country. In the Midwest the program seems to be, "let's assume you've been driving your Father's tractor since 8 years old and call that equivalent experience". Out East I've had natives in New Jersey honk at me for not turning left across traffic at a red light; what lack of training is needed to think that is acceptable should be criminal. California may not have the most courteous drivers, but it could be a lot worse...
Re:Nothing new (Score:5, Insightful)
There are also well published statistics about how fatalities increase as a result of going at a higher speed (which should be pretty obvious if you give it more than a few minutes of thought).
Fatalities increase with speed, yes. Because higher speed means a crash has more destructive force than a lower speed. However, that does NOT mean that a higher speed CAUSES more crashes. It just means the crashes that may or may not have occurred either way are far more likely to kill you. And even at 65mph, if you wipe out, you're going to have a really bad day more often than not.
You don't know anything about this. (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't think road crews in America check to make sure the highways they build are level? You don't know what you're talking about.
Re:Rest of the world already ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Autobahn (Score:5, Insightful)
If I'm doing the speed limit in the far left lane you have no right to bitch.
If you are not passing another vehicle, than you are breaking the law and are doing something that is not safe. If you are not passing another vehicle, get out of the passing lane.
Re:It's an Effing Toll Road (Score:5, Insightful)
What, what an asshole move. Not only do you care so little about safety that you threaten to cause bodily harm to another driver because you *don't like the way they drive*, but you're perfectly fine with causing massive traffic jams. Have you ever noticed how most instances of really heavy (but rolling) traffic occur because there's some inconsiderate driver with no lane discipline, no ability to look in their mirrors, and a self-important outlook on their driving, who is holding up countless cars behind them by going slow in the left lane?
Yeah, probably not. You wouldn't notice something like that.
Re:There's nothing Darwin about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
People like to point to the Autobahn for speeds like this but there are clear differences.
- Licenses are much harder to get in Germany and require much stricter testing
- The high speed roads are very well maintained and are not straight so they tend not to create driving "hypnosis"
- People take driving more seriously on the Autobahn instead of treating it like a game or a chance to play with their phones
Hit a bump in a road at 90+ and your average SUV would probably lift off the ground and lose control.
Re:There's nothing Darwin about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
most of us are driving 70-80mph anyways when the limits are 55-65mph...and arbitrarily enforced. Why not just make the limits 85mph and enforce it strictly? Far less ambiguity and stress for the driver. And no need to negotiate down tickets or argue when pulled over.
Re:There's nothing Darwin about it. (Score:4, Insightful)
A brother in law of a friend hit a tree at 80 kph and died instantly from the sudden stop.
Re:It's an Effing Toll Road (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's an Effing Toll Road (Score:4, Insightful)
And if you're on the cellphone doing whatever, you should be shot.
FTFY.
And by the way, the laws in some (probably many) states do state that you HAVE to go the speed limit, with a few exceptions. For example, here is the text from Arizona law:
"A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed that is less than the speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions unless the speed that is reasonable and prudent exceeds the maximum safe operating speed of the lawfully operated implement of husbandry."
"The speed that is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions" is defined elsewhere in the law as the speed limit if there's no bad weather, road hazards, etc.
Most people driving below the limit would argue that it exceeds the max safe operating speed of the vehicle, but in reality most newer vehicles can drive the limit just fine. It's the driver who's not comfortable with driving the limit, blaming the car is just a convenient excuse.
Of course, this provision is never, ever enforced. But it should be pretty obvious why it's there. People driving 20 MPH under the speed limit add nearly as much danger to the roads as people driving 20 MPH over the speed limit.
Re:Yeah but... (Score:3, Insightful)
People refuse to obey the speed limits because the speed limits are retarded. Take any major highway in North America and you'll find massive stretches of more or less completely straight road where there's no reason you couldn't drive all day at your car's top speed, except, the posted speed limit is a third (or less) of said top speed.
This will never change because the government strongly prefers to keep everyone a criminal, they're much easier to control that way. If speed limits were strictly enforced (and not increased to sane values), there would be riots in the streets.