Windows RT vs. Windows 8 Could Burn Consumers 297
Nerval's Lobster writes "The Surface currently available for pre-order runs Windows RT, a version of the operating system designed to run on ARM architecture. Windows RT looks virtually identical to Windows 8, which, like previous versions of Windows, runs on the x86 architecture that dominates the laptop and desktop market. Microsoft's early marketing materials aren't exactly highlighting that differences between Windows RT and Windows 8 — and as a result, there's a high potential for unsuspecting consumers to end up burned when they buy a Windows RT tablet expecting the complete Windows experience. But Windows RT won't support legacy Windows applications — instead, users will need to hope and pray that developers port those applications to the Windows Store, the only venue for RT-supported apps. Over at The Verge, the intrepid Sean Hollister asked eight Microsoft Store representatives about the differences between Windows 8 and Windows RT, and received several confusing responses. 'To their credit, half of the representatives admitted that Windows RT wasn't as capable as Windows 8,' he wrote. 'The other half not so much. Moreover, those reps who did admit issues seemed dismissive of Windows RT as a whole.'"
A terrible mistake. (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft is making a terrible mistake by not trying their absolute hardest to optimize the heck out of the Common Language Runtime for ARM. I don't think anyone would expect a tablet to be an acceptable desktop replacement machine - nobody thinks that of an iPad - but the fact they're not leveraging an existing architecture to bring application compatibility to the RT is going to cause major consumer headaches. No "native" apps would be a fine limitation, but they really should have the .NET CLR available for developers.
I occasionally chat with a few Microsoft SDEs who are directly involved in the development of native RT apps, and it usually goes something like this: "ARM is fucking terrible, it's weak and powerless!" "How come other platforms, including Linux, can run on ARM successfully?" "ARM isn't powerful enough to run Windows applications, that's what we mean. That's why we have to rewrite everything to be more highly optimized for these few Windows RT apps." "So, the reason Windows RT can't run Windows apps is because most Windows software is so bad, it wouldn't perform acceptably on something being run at its limits?" "Pretty much."
Re:I never expected my iPad to run OSX application (Score:5, Informative)
...and I didn't have to read a disclaimer from Apple stating "Will not run OSX applications"...
I had to crush the hopes and dreams of more than a few who didn't successfully draw that inference...
Also, that was called 'iPad' rather than "OSX AR on Apple iPad"...
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Difference: They still call both Windows. (Score:5, Informative)
Macs Run OS X.
iPad Runs iOS.
x86 and ARM machines both run "Windows 8".
Here is a perfect example of this SNAFU:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/category/windows-tablets/31088.aspx?path=6d56ed26a8e2432d145864a8ee45cd37en01 [futureshop.ca]
This is the biggest Electronics retailer in Canada (does link work outside Canada?).
The First two tablets listed, both $599, Both look physically the same. Both have the exact same blue screen "Windows 8" logos on their screen.
There is absolutely no way that you can know by looking at any of the information at this level, that one of these tablets in x86 and will run legacy applications, and the other is ARM and won't.
If you go to each product page you can find in the fine print of specifications that one runs Intel, the other Tegra and one is Windows 8 RT. Which is incomprehensible nerd speak to most people.
It is that fact that they look the same, are marketed the same with the same graphical "Windows 8" is going to confuse almost everyone that isn't a hard core nerd.
Re:A terrible mistake. (Score:5, Informative)
1. .NET languages are JIT compiled not interpreted.
2. GTK and Qt don't work for all OSes.
Re:Difference: They still call both Windows. (Score:5, Informative)
x86 and ARM machines both run "Windows 8".
x86 runs Windows 8
ARM run Windows RT
And if you look at the tech specs, one is identified as using OS:
Windows RT, the other is identified using OS Windows 8.
Now that said, I agree 100% that most consumers won't catch that.
But I really think that in this case ***Futureshop*** is confusing customers, not Microsoft.
Those stock photos showing the Windows 8 logo were not likely provided by ASUS for the RT product. Reading the Asus product anouncement for the Vivo Tab, and Vivo Tab RT -- the Vivo tab talks about windows 8 experience all over the place. While the Vivo Tab RT announcement talks about windows RT and doesn't mention Windows 8 anywhere at all.
There is definitely going to be confusion, but Futureshop is the one making the mess here.
Not Microsoft, not even Asus.
Re:I never expected my iPad to run OSX application (Score:4, Informative)
There's a different scale here. Sure someone trying to install a standard windows program on a phone will fall down at any old technological hurdle. The two are designed completely different, look completely different, and interact completely different.
But ... RT vs Windows 8. They have the same interface (metro), they run on the same type of hardware (laptops / slates), they come with identical software pre-installed (internet explorer 10, email clients, etc).
It's really not a stretch to see that this is going to be a far larger problem then the usual "Oh my god why are you even trying to use technology" type of crowd.
Re:I never expected my iPad to run OSX application (Score:5, Informative)
What is especially jarring is seeing all the tablet-esque window management misfeatures at play even as it has never been cheaper to have a couple of big monitors on your desk. In particular, the behavior where 'full-screen' on one application causes all your other monitors to blank to a grey background [apple.com] can only be Apple's way of giving the finger to their remaining pro users...
Re:Difference: They still call both Windows. (Score:4, Informative)
The Win8/WinRT dichotomy will be baffling to anyone who isn't technically savvy enough to know there are different chip architectures, and retailers will find it difficult if not impossible to effectively explain the difference, if they even know it.
Here's how to explain the difference for non-tech savvy people:
Windows RT has this new touch user interface called 'metro' that only runs apps you buy online from the microsoft app store. It doesn't run anything else. Its a lot like how an ipad works with itunes.
Windows 8 has everything Windows RT has, but it also has an extra tile called "Desktop Mode" where you can run software designed for desktop mode. It will also run software from previous versions of windows in "desktop mode".
Its not that baffling.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I never expected my iPad to run OSX application (Score:2, Informative)
No, the summary correctly explains that this is a disaster waiting to happen for support. Windows has been Windows for the last 30 years because they've reasonably well managed compatibility from one version to the next, and usually several versions beyond that. Microsoft money doesn't work anymore, but I have stuff from the late 90's that works fine on regular windows 8.
Windows RT is a different animal entirely, and I hope it's not intended as a serious product but just as a bone being thrown to the ARM guys in case that really becomes a future necessity, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like they really are forking windows with the hope that new programs will support both. I certainly know I'm not supporting windows RT with anything I'm working on though, but who knows, maybe the big guys at EA and Activision will.
With Windows 8, and Windows RT and surface microsoft has picked fights with their biggest supporters, developers, consumers and manufacturers, in that order. This is bad all ways around. The app store risks limiting the open platform nature of Windows, Windows RT is going to confuse everyone who isn't on /. on a daily basis, and Surface is making all of the hardware partners wonder if microsoft is more competitor than ally. All of this could go very badly for everyone, although the hardware partners needed a good kick in the pants 10 years ago. And I haven't even gotten into the clusterfuck that is the design of windows 8.
Re:A terrible mistake. (Score:4, Informative)
So was java. How many corporate apps in the office that require Java only work on Windows or IE 6/7? 90% of them.
In my experience it's more like 10% of them. And I'm not sure how IE fits into Java desktop apps.