Is Silicon Valley Morally Bankrupt and Toxic? 469
concealment sends this quote from a post about how the goals of many tech companies are at odds with what's good for consumers:
"Since I've been out of the Silicon-Valley-centered tech industry, I've become increasingly convinced that it's morally bankrupt and essentially toxic to our society. Companies like Google and Facebook — in common with most public companies — have interests that are frequently in conflict with the well-being of — I was going to say their customers or their users, but I'll say 'people' in general, since it's wider than that. People who use their systems directly, people who don't — we're all affected by it, and although some of the outcomes are positive a disturbingly high number of them are negative: the erosion of privacy, of consumer rights, of the public domain and fair use, of meaningful connections between people and a sense of true community, of beauty and care taken in craftsmanship, of our very physical well-being. No amount of employee benefits or underfunded Google.org projects can counteract that. Over time, I've come to consider that this situation is irremediable, given our current capitalist system and all its inequalities. To fix it, we're going to need to work on social justice and rethinking how we live and work and relate to each other. Geek toys like self-driving cars and augmented reality sunglasses won't fix it. Social networks designed to identify you to corporations so they can sell you more stuff won't fix it. Better ad targeting or content matching algorithms definitely won't fix it."
maybe Silicon Valley is no longer Silicon Valley (Score:5, Interesting)
I am not completely convinced (Score:5, Interesting)
I once had the fortune to work for a very large international corporation that was entirely family owned, with no external stock holders. And I can tell you that the culture and mentality within that corporation was completely different compared to other workplaces I have been in.
They were much more concerned with continuously building the value of the brand / family name, than to make profit for the share holders. If they were convinced something was the right thing to do, they would allow it to take time and money.
So I would say the problem lays more in the way that companies are financed today, and the effects that has on their operations, than whether they are located in Silicon Valley or not.
Stopping road deaths is a "geek toy"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since when are self-driving cars a "geek toy"? Road safety is a huge thing. Unless you hate old people, the disabled, and people who are just unlucky, getting humans away from the steering wheel is going to be up there with curing cancer.
Re:Is it broke? (Score:5, Interesting)
How do you figure?
Go watch TV. Then come back. We'll talk then........
Back? OK, notice how TV ransoms you shit? Like the news & weather, the plot twist, etc? Much of the web does not do this. Paywalls are going up some places, and other places (like this one) let you pay to be free of the damn ads. Let's say you pay for TV from cable or sat dish provider. They inject local ads into the stream to target you, so even if you pay for the service you have to pay additional to get the few "premium" channels that don't have commercials. Imagine if your ISP were inserting ads into the sites you visit. Some tried, I believe, it was a huge stink and they stopped... settling for DNS redirects (use a different DNS).
TV is only about AV media and only secondarily about information and interactive stuff, but the web isn't, nor are the companies presented. However, I think they do a better job than the old media has. I can barely stand to watch TV at all the commercials are so intrusive in comparison.
In a word, YES! (Score:4, Interesting)
I moved there in 1997 to work for the Lighthouse Design division of Sun Microsystems (formerly the division did NeXT software). As a mid-size city kid from the Canadian prairies, I was immediately struck by, not just the moral bankruptcy, but what I felt was literally a soul-destroying culture. I left soon after and only returned a couple times, each time having that impression confirmed.
Here are some of the things I observed. Some are general to the United States and its form of capitalism, some (seem to be) specific to the Bay Area and Silicon Valley:
1. Culture of guns and violence. Simply a belief that enough other people are "bad" that you must protect yourself and it would be okay to kill someone else to do that. There are lots of places in the world where that belief is not pervasive and they seem to be nicer places to live. It's kinda like the justice system is supposed to work: it's fairer if you presume innocence and that actually encourages people to behave nicely whereas if you presume guilt, people will live up to that expectation.
2. Extreme Culture of Materialism. Money matters, and getting rich matters even more. The expression "F***-You Money" is a good indicator of this. I knew a few people who had their "F***-You Money" and they weren't enlightened... they were spoiled. It's like the "American Dream" taken to an unhealthy extreme. People were generally extremely busy and most friendly conversation was either about money, money other people make, technology, sex or drugs. Very little friendly conversation was about community, relationships, or the soul.
3. A Bizarre Hypocrisy around Tolerance/Inclusion. San Francisco, in particular, was bad for this; blind to its own racism yet so proud that it was inclusive and tolerant. If you know the area, I only need say "East Palo Alto" (it's been a few years so maybe it's gentrified now) and you should be able to figure out what I mean. We tolerate all religions, all philosophies, all genders, all types of cultures... except the black and spanish folks in our midst who only work menial or retail service jobs. The real problem is that most people there were completely blind to what was blindingly obvious to me as an outsider.
4. Pervasive, Persuasive Moral Bankruptcy. The longer I was there, the more I "got into" the culture. I've seen this happen to other friends from outside the area. It kills people's souls. Maybe not everyone... I'm sure there are some people who are shining examples of enlightenment... but I couldn't resist it, and I don't know anyone else who has (save one person). Of course, this is "normal" - we adjust to and eventually adopt the culture of our surroundings unless we actively work against it. I _was_ actively working against it and it still changed me to my own detriment.
I believe that the organizations that are there (Google, Facebook, etc.) are not "to blame" as they are just participating in the culture and trying to be successful in that culture. (Or to be more accurate, the people in those organizations are doing this.) But anyone who has an idealistic bone in them will quickly have it gellified and unconsciously begin to give up that idealism for the much more flexible moral relativism and then eventually the outlook that, heck, capitalism isn't so bad after all! not realizing that the ideology in that area is beyond capitalism: it's imperial corporatist capitalism that cares only for growth, and at any human cost (just so long as it doesn't harm the bottom line).
Not a Luddite screed (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder if there could ever be a sane market again where you paid what a phone costs and got secure communication without being tracked, or paid for email with built in PGP and avoided getting spammed and having your email property of and stored by your provider forever, paid for a social networking service without having your life exposed or your face secretly scanned and sold to the government. I think those times are gone.
'Social Justice' is a ridiculous concept (Score:5, Interesting)
It's an airy concept devoid of any real meaning. It's has the flimsiest of justifications for its existence and every time I hear it I want to hit someone. It's a high-minded sounding renaming of whatever particular pet grievance the current user of the term has in mind at the moment. It's an attempt to avoid any real debate over the merits of the grievance by presenting a piece of the picture and appealing to someone's sense of fairness. It's dishonest, deceitful and doesn't belong in polite conversation. It's the race-baiting of the left.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you. Silicon Valley is toxic and morally bankrupt. Just as bad in its way as Wall Street.
The problem, as I see it, is the profit motive. Which is not exactly a problem precisely. It's when the profit becomes the goal instead of the reward.
When you structure a business, you have to structure it so it makes financial sense, so it can support itself, so it can make money. Structuring it to extract the maximum possible value out of the system is counter-productive. With the right kinds of locks and business tricks you can keep anybody else from getting into your value stream at all. Microsoft is the king of this. Unfortunately this behavior is long-term toxic to the business ecosystem. And it's long-term toxic to the fabric of society.
No, you should have a goal in your business that has nothing to do with money. The goal you have is the value you provide. Then think about how to get enough money out of the system to achieve that goal grow modestly and make you and your employees reasonably well-off. Your profit is your reward for doing something people value. It's not the goal.
Of course, there are puzzles like Facebook. Facebook has never been profitable. They're greedy because they have no idea how to extract value. So any means is considered fair game because they're hungry. Which is a different (but related) kind of attitude problem.
To me, the evil of Facebook is one of centralization. Whenever you have that kind of centralization you will get something that uses its control to the detriment of everybody else. It might not happen right away (aka Google), but it will inevitably happen. Centralization is a bug, never a feature.
Corporations are profit motivated (Score:4, Interesting)
Period.
- Don't ever think a corporation does anything directly to benefit their customers.
- Don't ever think a corporation does anything directly to benefit their internal employees.
- Don't ever think a corporation does anything directly to benefit the "public"
For corporations, everything is done in the name of profit. If it happens to benefit other parties, that's a side effect, not the intention. In most cases, it has to benefit other parties to make a profit, but by no means is original intention. The original intention is profit.
AC states this as a fairly generalized statement. There are exceptions - corporations who fall outside this stereotype, private companies who are not necessarily interested in a profit, non-profits, etc. However, for most cases, don't delude yourself into thinking there was ever any true intention other than profit.
Re:For the umpteenth time... (Score:5, Interesting)
When independent leaders ask the people to treat their fellow members of the human race better, they are advocating for social justice.
When an enormously powerful government takes things from one class to earn the political support of another class, that is NOT social justice.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't believe a one dimensional political continuum is adequate to describe the diverse spectrum of political beliefs out there. I'm libertarian-leaning, which some would characterize as "far right", but that's a half truth at best.
I would consider both parties to be generally left leaning to the extent that they are both obsessed with the use of government power as the basis for society. All the Republican talk about limited and non intrusive government is just rhetoric and Democrats openly advocate bigger government.
Where does individual liberty vs. authoritarianism fit in the left/right dichotomy? If libertarians are "far right" then the Republican ideology of big government, erosion of civil liberties and perpetual war has to be center-left or far left.
What do you call Obama's advocacy for massive government intervention in the healthcare system if not "socialist"?
I think what we're seeing is a government in Washington DC where neither party represents the people to any great extent. You're "far left" and think the government is center-right, giving you no representation. I'm "far right"(or whatever) and think the government is center left, giving me no representation. Basically the federal government doesn't represent us. That's why we should all agree to dismantle large parts of the federal bureaucracy and transfer revenue and power back to the states and local communities.
Re:For the umpteenth time... (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you ever been to Silicon Valley? I live here and can tell you that the answer is "no". SV is not like Detroit with 3 companies that make up the economy, it's pretty much everything you can think of dealing with technology. Why do you rate such a massive amount of technological knowledge on 2 companies in the valley? For instance, Rambus is here as well as every other company designing computer memory. All of the companies designing switching equipment are here also. That's right, Ericsson (formerly Redback and Entrisphere also), Brocade, Cisco, AT&T are all here designing and building the switching equipment for your phones, PCs, servers, and more. Apple is here, as is Dell, HP, Oracle, IBM, and countless others that design and build everything from PDAs to massive servers. Yes, all designed and developed in SV as well as most of the software you use to run on them.
Okay, piss and moan about Google's lack of morals. Why not also pay attention to the products and services they provide for "FREE" to cynical douche bags like the author of TFA? Don't like Google for their morals, simple answer is don't use their products and tell others the same. That's how the free market works you know, we have the power as consumers to either keep companies in business or put them under in time.
And look, I'm as cynical as the rest (maybe more) when it comes to Government. You can check my post history if you have doubts. But companies are not the same (at least currently in the US) as the Government. People still have power in the market, but you have to be smart enough to use the power you have.
So the answer again is "No", you obviously have no idea what Silicon Valley is or does to make such an ignorant argument. Come visit sometime, surprisingly most of the people you meet here are very courteous and helpful. I will warn you to keep the arrogant attitudes at home though, pricks are frowned upon here and it's a very big place.. easy to get lost if you get my meaning.
Like my parents and three of my grandparents, I was born in "Silicon Valley." My family has had a front-row seat to the transformation of the South Bay from orchards to technology companies and I have watched the Silicon Valley culture completely takeover and displace the existing culture. If you happen to be in a profession that benefits from Silicon Valley, then good for you, you get to stick around and watch Silicon Valley subsume everything that was great about the Bay Area; that unique mix of red neck farmers, libertarian outdoorsmen, and hippies. Of course if, like my family, you happen to be blue collar and your sleepy little town lies within commuting distance of Cupertino or downtown SF then you get to watch rich assholes from out of state move in and buy every house in sight for ten times what its worth. They wait like vultures until someone who probably built their house when they came back from WWII drops dead and, when the children can't afford the taxes on the inflated real estate, they generously step in to buy the house, which they promptly tear down or remodel into a walled fortress. Your close-knit neighborhood, surrounded by oak trees and poppies where you used to wander with impunity..? Yah, that's now an up-scale area with high fences and manicured yards; everything else is an over-grown mess because everyone is too important to pitch in and trim back the brush on weekends.
I remember when stores were still closed on Sundays in San Jose because they were all small, locally-owned businesses. There was a small, local grocery store near my grandparents' old house--which they were forced to sell when they retired because of the skyrocketing cost of living and property values--that I used to buy candy at after school. I visited a couple of years ago and was happy to see that it was still standing. I was, however, enraged to find that it had become a "specialty market," selling gluten free bullshit and $10 loaves of "artisan bread" to the owners of the expensive German car
Re:For the umpteenth time... (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh, you're speaking now of the 1% who engineer the laws to take money from taxpayers and give it to themselves?
http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591842484 [amazon.com]
http://www.unjustdeserts.com/inside.cfm [unjustdeserts.com]