U.S. Senate's Big Immigration Bill Seeks Centralized Database For H-1B Jobs 251
dcblogs writes "The U.S. Senate comprehensive immigration bill, due Tuesday, will allow the H-1B cap to rise from 65,000 to as high as 180,000. The bill, overall, contains some interesting provisions. It will require the U.S. Labor Dept. to create a website of H-1B job openings that employers must post to. The jobs must be posted least 30 calendar days before hiring an H-1B applicant to fill that position. The bill also raises wages for H-1B workers to make them more competitive, although the amount wasn't specified. One provision that will affect India, in particular, limits H-1B visa use to 50% of a firm's U.S. workforce. The provision may prompt India firms to buy U.S. companies to expand their U.S. presence."
why? (Score:5, Insightful)
So they can encourage foreign outsourcing? Doesn't anyone see this as having a negative impact on domestic unemployment? (as well as a trade deficit effect as they ship their US$ off to India)
Why is this necessary???
Wrong Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:why? (Score:5, Insightful)
So they can encourage foreign outsourcing? Doesn't anyone see this as having a negative impact on domestic unemployment? (as well as a trade deficit effect as they ship their US$ off to India)
Why is this necessary???
Well it might have a positive effect on domestic employment as well.
If it makes US firms use of foreign workers very visible people (and congress) will be able to see to what
extent these companies are using H1B workers in place of US workers laid off.
Right now this is pretty well a hidden level of replacement that no one agency has a good handle on. Immigration may know the numbers, but Dept of Labor only knows about the unemployed.
By making a public website where these jobs are listed, it can be used for in-country job search as well.
Expect the H1B employers to fight this tooth and nail.
Simple solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not just mandate a H1B be paid at least $100,000 a year, no exceptions. If they're really so good, they deserve the money and $100k would be a bargain.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Where, exactly, are these alleged companies that supposedly save millions of dollars by hiring H1B workers? I've worked for 3 very, very large corporations in the telecommunications and banking industries that hire H1B workers, and as far as anybody could tell, our H1B coworkers got paid the same amount as everyone else, and actually cost *more* for the company to hire and employ due to greater paperwork requirements.
That's because you're working for legitimate companies. There are also companies full of fresh-from-college hires that pay far under going rate and lie to their employees egregiously about the immigration process and how easy it is to change jobs with an H-1B. Taking advantage of people young enough not to know any better isn't an "immigrant" thing, however. My first full time programming job paid $18k - as a US citizen in a big city! I think there's a false belief that it's somehow only the H-1B consulting shops that abuse their employees to pay them nothing - that's just not visa-specific!
From TFS:
One provision that will affect India, in particular, limits H-1B visa use to 50% of a firm's U.S. workforce
That would be a huge change for the better - exactly because it would break the current model of the companies that exist just to abuse the system. Sure, in 5-10 years they'll have a new model, just as abusive, but that will be a good 5-10 years!
Re:Not all H1 Bs are bad (Score:5, Insightful)
I came in as F1, got a H1B, got green card and got citizenship just in time to vote against Rick Santorum. Hip hip hurrey!
But how did your salary compare to that of your American colleagues while you were an H1B employee?
H1Bs are not bad because on one ever stays in US, but because it allows for worker exploitation/underpayment (while on H1B).
The truth is (Score:4, Insightful)
We are trying to hire Java developers in Chicago for a salary range of 80k-120k and NOTHING. H1-B or not. The market is very tight.
What America needs ... (Score:5, Insightful)
What America needs is not what this bill is providing
I am saying this as an American, as one who have funded many startups in America, and as one who have providing jobs to many of my fellow Americans
What America needs are people who are entrepreneurial, who are risk takers, who provide jobs for others
What this bill intends to do is to import even more tech-grunts under the H1-B visas, and to open up the gate for MILLIONS of undocumented aliens, most of them unskilled/low-skilled, lacking in enthusiasm to compete, and they will end up burdening the already over-burdened social welfare system that we have in our country
Re:The truth is (Score:4, Insightful)
We are trying to hire Java developers in Chicago for a salary range of 80k-120k and NOTHING. H1-B or not. The market is very tight.
Maybe the problem is that you're trying to hire "Java developers" instead of good programmers. That's a mentality that seems to have become pervasive. There was a time when people would be embarrassed to say they were looking for a "language X developer". I once interviewed at a place where the interviewer started to ask me about a specific language. Then he stopped himself right in the middle and said "sorry, stupid question".
Can't find somebody who knows your language du jour? Hire any decent programmer on a probationary basis. If they're not up to speed on the flavor-of-the-year in a month or two, then get rid of them. If you're not willing to invest or chance a month or two then you're not in serious need.
Re:why? (Score:2, Insightful)
I feel the same way, and have made my position clear many times.
If $large mega corp$ feels it is in their best interest to outsource jobs in this "global economy" why are our DVD's still region coded?
Please dont give me the "top releases are sent to the US first"... I think the real reason is to prevent re-importation.
This "one way street" stuff needs to end. Either we have a global economy and you should charge $4 for a DVD and $10 for a school text book (same they often charge other regions) or we dont and you pay someone in India the same wages you would pay someone in North America.
Re:Not all H1 Bs are bad (Score:5, Insightful)
H1Bs get paid good salaries in tech firms, actually, on par with what the native employees are paid - at least based on my anecdotal evidence (as an H1B with plenty of friends on the same). Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Facebook all do that, and they also start green card applications for their H1Bs as soon as they become eligible - which wouldn't really make much sense if the purpose was to exploit the dependent status. Most people which do this see it as an immigration track towards eventual citizenship, and start settling down almost right away - some don't even wait for a green card to get a home mortgage etc.
The places that are really abusing the program hard seem to be the "business consulting" sweatshops like Tata, for whom outsourcing is, essentially, the entire business model and their raison d'etre. Those tend to have predominantly Indian employees, who are not sponsored for green cards, and who are considerably underpaid. Also, since those employees know that they won't remain in the country in the end, they tend to spend money less and save it more, since it will have more purchasing power for them once they return to their home country (so they aren't as invested in US economy, further exacerbating the effects).
Consequently, the obvious solution to this problem would be to ditch H1B as a temp. worker visa, and remake it as a work-towards-citizenship program. This would imply that any person coming to the country on such a visa would has to apply for a green card; and make this process easier and reduce the current (5.5 years and growing!) backlog. It would also be nice to make it easier to switch jobs while still on H1B (I'd say get rid of it entirely, except that you want to ensure that new job has the necessary qualifications - i.e. above prevailing wage, local applicants prioritized etc); most importantly, make it so that changing jobs doesn't reset the green card process, so that employers can't use it as a stick.
Re:What America needs ... (Score:4, Insightful)
What America, no, the world simply needs is that work has to pay. Simple as that. The good ol' American Dream has to work again. Get a job, work your way up, take a risk or two, work some more and you'll have the chance to play up in the heavens as well.
As long as it's more profitable to push money around and play the stock roulette (where, unlike entrepreneurial minded people who HAVE to risk it all, you play with a bailout net below you), this country (as any country, don't feel left out, Europe!) will never get back on its feet.