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Baseball Software Can't Score What Jean Segura Did Friday 223

Posted by timothy
from the for-some-values-of-uncommon dept.
JimboFBX writes "Interesting piece of baseball history happened on Friday. Jean Segura of the Milwaukee Brewers stole second, tried to steal third too early, but made it back to second before being tagged. The problem was that teammate Ryan Braun already made it to second on the steal attempt. After tags were applied to both baserunners, Segura started trotting to the dugout before realizing that he wasn't out, Braun was, and his only option was to make it back to first. He then of course proceeded to try to steal second base again. The software for keeping the box score? Doesn't (yet) support someone running backwards on the bases. Looks like that will have to change." Here is video of the sequence.
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Baseball Software Can't Score What Jean Segura Did Friday

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  • by EvanED (569694) <evaned@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Saturday April 20, 2013 @08:38PM (#43506837)

    This link someone else posted has a video and a much more comprehensible account of what transpired: []

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:05PM (#43506971)

    Are you sure? Can I please get a source on that?

    The following links says otherwise. (Though admittedly they are unreferenced and generally not trust-worthy).
    1 []
    2 []
    3 []
    4 []
    5 []
    6 []

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:14PM (#43506989)

    No, it's just not a good idea to do from second base where a right-handed pitcher can easily see you leading off and stealing. That also depends on whether the pitcher is throwing from the wind-up or the stretch. Typically, a pitcher delivers from the stretch with runners on base, as the motion is quicker and he can more easily see runners on 1st attempting to steal.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:17PM (#43507011)

    I hate replying to my own comment, but throwing from the wind-up allows for a delivery mechanic that is more powerful. More force = faster pitch = faster reaction time required to hit. That's why I like baseball - just the act of delivering a pitch has so much complexity that such slight changes can result in differentiation of game outcomes.

  • by SternisheFan (2529412) on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:28PM (#43507059)
    Alright, I'm gonna have to call myself 'out' on this. Rules say you have to touch all the bases or it doesn't count. []

    Also, rule 5.06 applies... []

    I learned an urban myth as a kid, I guess. Something about Babe Ruth not having to run the bases after he hit another out, he ran them for the crowd.

  • by elashish14 (1302231) <profcalc4@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:36PM (#43507083)

    I think clip is available here: [] - you can clearly see the runner trotting off the field before he realizes that he's not out and safely reaches first.

    Also, in this year's World Baseball Classic, Italy made it to the second round (top 8 of 16) and the Netherlands reached the semifinals (top 4). Not a bad showing for the Europeans....

  • by sk999 (846068) on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:49PM (#43507123)

    It is not against the rules, and I saw it happen, when Willie Davis of the Dodgers stole second against the New York Mets while the pitcher held the ball the entire time. This was way back when the Mets played in the Polo Grounds. Even thought the Mets were bad, it was still not a nice thing to do. It was one of many incidents that has led to my current mantra:

    "If the Dodgers lose, it was a good day in baseball"

  • by Trepidity (597) <delirium-slashdot&hackish,org> on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:51PM (#43507129)

    This is the software that codes those records for storage. "Scoring" in baseball in this sense means compiling the records of what happened in the game, the kind of stuff you see printed in a newspaper box score and stored in game databases.

  • by jfengel (409917) on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:53PM (#43507133) Homepage Journal

    No, that's what retarded people think "understanding baseball" means. The rule book is actually littered with dozens of complications: ground rule double, infield fly rule, fourth-out rule, etc. The basics of the game are simple, but there are a lot of corner cases in unusual situations, including the one this article is talking about.

  • by SternisheFan (2529412) on Saturday April 20, 2013 @09:59PM (#43507153)
    I couldn't click your hyperlink (I think because of the space in it) on my tablet, found it on wiki:

    The game was tied 2–2, going into the top of the 15th inning, until Mets pitcher Octavio Dotel gave up an RBI triple to Keith Lockhart, giving the Braves a 3–2 lead. In the bottom of the 15th inning, the Mets loaded the bases against Braves relief pitcher Kevin McGlinchy. Mets catcher Todd Pratt drew a bases loaded walk, tying the score 3–3.

    The next batter was Mets third baseman Robin Ventura. Ventura crushed the 2–1 pitch over the wall in right-center for an ostensible grand slam, winning the game for the Mets and driving the Mets players and fans into a frenzied celebration. Ventura, however, never reached second base as Todd Pratt, the runner who was on first, picked up Ventura in celebration. Subsequently, Ventura was mobbed by his teammates, never finishing his trot around the bases. Because he failed to touch all four bases, the hit was officially scored a single. Roger Cedeño, the runner on third at the time, was ruled the only runner to have crossed home plate before the on-field celebration began and the Mets were awarded a 4-3 victory. Thus, Ventura was only credited with a single and one RBI. As a result, there had never been an official walk-off grand slam in MLB postseason history until Nelson Cruz hit one to allow the Texas Rangers to beat the Detroit Tigers 7–3 in Game 2 of the American League Championship Series on October 10, 2011.

    And the video on []

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2013 @10:23PM (#43507259)

    From what I understand of the link: Segura made multiple minor league baserunning mistakes in this play.
    Segura was leading off second base and could have attempted to steal third base regardless if the pitcher threw the ball home or not, he just made his first baserunning mistake and went too early for third and saw that the pitcher could have easily thrown him out at third, so then Segura ran back to second before the pitcher could attempt to pick him off at second. Braun made it to second base, and in that situation Braun is automatically called out because two baserunners cannot occupy the same base at the same time. Segura's second baserunning mistake was when he thought he was tagged out on the play, so he started running back to the dugout. A runner more heads-up would know to just stay on second base. So Segura was still safely within the basepath when he was going back to the dugout (if he was outside of the basepath he'd be out) and was close enough to first base that the first base coach told him to get on first base and stay there. Segura possibly made a third mistake when he was never called out by an umpire, yet he still thought he was out on the play.
    Segura later attempted to steal second again, but was caught stealing second base, after he had previously stole second base in the same inning without the team batting around. Very bizarre indeed.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2013 @10:34PM (#43507301)

    All bases have to be touched, including home plate. If the hitter is unable to make it, a pinch-runner will have to do it for him, it's happened before.
    I've also played in a game where the hitter who hit the homerun was so ecstatic that he missed first base during his homerun trot. On the next plate appearance the pitcher pitched out to first base and the previous batter was called out, so no homerun on that at-bat!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20, 2013 @10:47PM (#43507341)

    You're right, but the ump didn't see the second tag on Segura while he was calling Braun out. I suppose if the home-plate ump saw it, he could have over-ruled the call. The third baseman didn't need to tag Braun either because he would've been out anyways, the tagging was just for good measure.

  • Does England not have the room for a proper field

    Hilarious, because cricket grounds are *much* bigger than baseball grounds ;p

    Okay here is a deal: Explain me baseball, and I will explain you Cricket, because frankly baseball is totally whacky for me (not that cricket is any simpler, mind you...)

    In baseball the object is to iterate as many tokens as you can through a 4 slotted dequeue FIFO (implemented internally as a self referencing doubly linked list); Iteration run time is earned by the batting team by causing the hardest to solve ball sorting problems possible for the other team (most entropic ball state). The opposing team manages a counter labeled "Outs" initialized to 0 each "inning". If the counter is incremented to 3 the teams switch objectives, and a the out counter is reset. Each full iteration of a player though the buffer increments a team's "run" variable. The team with the greatest runs wins (typically by earning the most loop execution time).

    The team managing the out counter distributes themselves optimally around the field such that they'll be able to detect the ball's location within a short period of time -- AND -- so that they can sort the ball back to their prime ball holder, the "pitcher". To get a chance to increment the out counter (and thus eventually have their turn at bat, and increase their runs) the pitching team gives the batting team a chance to hit the ball (and cause the ball sorting problem). While the ball is being sorted player tokens can iterate through the FIFO buffer nodes (bases). Only one additional player can enter base queue per sorting problem created. The bases are allowed to be null (no players), and players can move in both directions around the loop.

    A pitcher must give adequate chance for the ball sorting problem to be created by passing the ball through a volume called the "strike zone" which is created by clipping the prismatic space above home plate to the vertical interval between the batter's knees and the midpoint in their chest. The midpoint is a point half way between the shoulders and top of the pants. Note: Creating an impossible planar strike zone by pulling one's pants down to the knee and bending at the waste to bring the shoulders in line is considered extremely rude "unsportsmanlike conduct". If the batter does not swing at a valid pitch then it is counted against them as a "strike". If the bat is swung at the ball and no valid sorting problem is created it is considered a strike whether the ball passed through the strike zone or not. If a batter accumulates 3 strikes it is converted to an out and their iteration is preempted. The pitcher may throw outside the strike zone to trick the player into leaping at an unfair starting condition, but if the player does not swing at such invalid pitches then they are considered unfit "balls", four such balls allows the player to automatically reach 1st base safely, and if occupied the bases will increment, possibly causing a run to be scored. This is called Walking, since there is no danger of being interrupted. Walks in the park are quite nice, but do not make for good games.

    A batter must cause a valid sorting problem with the ball within 3 attempts (swings) at valid pitches, or they lose their chance to enter the FIFO and the out counter is decremented. Valid sorting problems are those where the post-hit ball travel vector is within the area formed by rotating a ray extending from home through base 0 until it intersects base 3 (inclusive). If the valid ball is hit out of the park (or strikes the pole erected along the base lines to make the problem space visible, while above the fence) then the ball sorting problem is considered infinitely complex and the iteration queue can be emptied of all players actively in the FIFO buffer and they all count as runs -- This is called a home run. The ball sorting problem is considered too simple if the ball is caught from out of the air dir

Thus spake the master programmer: "After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless." -- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"