Microsoft Prepares Rethink On Windows 8 536
jones_supa writes "Microsoft has confirmed to be preparing to reverse course over elements of Windows 8. 'Key aspects' of how the software is used will be changed when Microsoft releases an updated version of the operating system this year, Tami Reller, head of marketing and finance for the Windows business, said in an interview with the Financial Times. Referring to difficulties many users have had with mastering the software, she added: 'The learning curve is definitely real.'"
While this decision is generally being framed as a frantic backtrack for Microsoft, it comes as the company has recently passed 100 million Windows 8 licenses sold. Clearly they see this as more of a course adjustment than bailing water from a sinking ship. Microsoft also plans to preview the update called 'Windows Blue' in June.
good (Score:5, Insightful)
mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:5, Insightful)
I am no Microsoft fan however I am glad to see them responding to customer feedback on their product. IT is good to see large companies shape products based on customer response - particularly when they command a very large share of a market.
100 million Windows 8 licenses sold (Score:1, Insightful)
Of course that's what Microsoft cares about, but it's irrelevant to the point of fixing this broken OS.
People don't buy Windows; they buy computers.
Re:mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:2, Insightful)
"Learning curve" is missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
This just further demonstrates that Microsoft doesn't get it. They seem to think that it's because it's all "different" and there is a "learning curve" which is why people don't like it.
The real reasons:
1) Metro apps default to one app on the screen, and break any sophisticated workflow which requires multiple widows. This is removed functionality, not just an interface change.
2) The UI requires more wrist movement or "gorilla arms", which forces people to do more physical work which adds up for things like muscle strain.
3) They try to force the same interface on two different kinds of setups - small touchscreen tablets/hybrids, and desktop setups with potentially multiple large monitors. There is no way to have a nice uniform interface for both kinds of setups.
There are certainly many more, but those are the worse that I can think of. It's not about learning a different interface - it's that there are genuine drawbacks and genuine functionality removed that needs to be given back.
Licenses sold... (Score:5, Insightful)
100 million Windows 8 licenses sold.
I just bought a notebook for my mother's birthday.
Since she is used to Ubuntu on the desktop computer, is was the natural OS of choice.
Windows 8 never saw the light of the day... yet since it came preloaded, it still counts as a sale for Microsoft.
100 million licenses sold, but to whom? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Windows 8 haters had the right of it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:good (Score:5, Insightful)
Start screen has never bothered me, as whenever I used the old start menu, all of my attention was focused on it anyway. For me, having a start screen just means that I can display more icons at once, which is a plus. I would love a boot to desktop mode, though.
Re:100 million Windows 8 licenses sold (Score:5, Insightful)
The 100 million number is very misleading. They sold licenses to OEM's. Also, the Windows computers I've bought since Windows 8 came out have had a license for Windows 8 (along with an install disc) but have come with Windows 7 pre-installed.
Re:The betting pool is now open... (Score:5, Insightful)
"OTOH, for ordinary users, they've kind of made it clear; they want everyone in consumer-land to get used to the whole Metro (or whatever they call it now) thing."
And the users have made it clear, Microsoft can fuck right off. No really, people I talk to that are not at all computer savvy have heard "the new windows" or windows 8 sucks, and are in some cases actually buying used computers to avoid Windows 8.
Ditching forced Metro & adding the start button is probably all Microsoft has to do to assuage these fears, and it was IMHO sure egotism that prevented them from doing this to begin with.
Inertia (Score:5, Insightful)
But and this is a big but. Things like LibreOffice can suit many user's needs and if I were a student doing term papers I would use a combination of google drive and google docs. Docs so my stuff is everywhere and can't be lost and Drive so that if I loose connectivity I have it on my machine. This might seem like a small market but the students of today are the consumers of tomorrow.
Lastly many home consumers are skipping the whole home desktop/laptop all together. A larger screened phone is generally all they need for most of their needs. This also goes for corporate types. The average higher level manager / road warrior is fine with a tablet / BB combo or some other mobile technology.
Soon the only people really needing a Windows machine (as opposed to some agnostic OS that primarily serves up a browser) will be specialty users such as accountants. Many other power users will be fine with either a Mac or Linux.
Which then leads to the whole server market. Linux is pretty dominating. My personal experience is that the MS shops out there are hard core MS evangelists who don't mind buying and managing huge piles of licenses which is getting even harder with many larger companies going with internal cloud systems that can spool up 20/200/2000 new machines on a whim.
I don't think that Windows 8 is the problem. I don't think it is the Metro interface beyond the fact that some MBAs at MS probably had these great spreadsheets showing huge desktop app sales. MS is declining for many other reasons. Preinstalled Bloatware would be a big one. But the key question is why I should not be using Linux, Android, MacOS, QNX? What is it that MS offers me to come back? For some reason it just doesn't appeal to me to pay an extra $100 when I buy a $500 device just so that I can run Windows. I don't see why I would want to run servers that could get me sued if I don't manage the licensing. I can see why people might stay through inertia but that isn't a very good business model in the long term.
"Creativity" (Score:3, Insightful)
From the article:"There’s a level of risk and creativity going on that would never have happened two years ago.”
Creativity is not forcing people to use an iPad interface on their desktops, a better word would be idiocy. Idiocy, as in forcing system admins to use an iPad interface on Windows Server 2012. Idiocy, as in having two taskbars, one on the bottom, and one auto-hiding on the right side.
Bring back Aero to replace flatland look (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"Learning curve" is missing the point. (Score:2, Insightful)
This just further demonstrates that Microsoft doesn't get it. They seem to think that it's because it's all "different" and there is a "learning curve" which is why people don't like it.
The real reasons:
1) Metro apps default to one app on the screen, and break any sophisticated workflow which requires multiple widows. This is removed functionality, not just an interface change.
2) The UI requires more wrist movement or "gorilla arms", which forces people to do more physical work which adds up for things like muscle strain.
3) They try to force the same interface on two different kinds of setups - small touchscreen tablets/hybrids, and desktop setups with potentially multiple large monitors. There is no way to have a nice uniform interface for both kinds of setups.
There are certainly many more, but those are the worse that I can think of. It's not about learning a different interface - it's that there are genuine drawbacks and genuine functionality removed that needs to be given back.
I cannot agree strongly enough. All along, Microsoft has (publically) considered this a training issue and nothing more. They don't seem to comprehend that people may fully understand how Metro works and still prefer not to use it, for valid usability reasons.
This makes me very concerned that when they "fix" Windows 8, they won't actually fix it properly. It's hard to fix a problem you don't understand. My only hope is that privately, the Windows 8 developers do understand the problem, and this exclusive focus on training is a PR/marketing mandate.
Re:The betting pool is now open... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not good enough. The Start menu has to return; that was always the sticking point, not the replacement of the button with a hot corner. And I never want to see any part of Metro at all.
Re:mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:2, Insightful)
You said it man. That's exactly the point, with Microsoft you are stuck and have zero choices. It doesn't matter to me if they add the start menu back or not, I moved to Linux last year and wouldn't go back to that sorry excuse for an OS if you paid me a Million green backs. But I understand people are 'hooked' into the OS like I was. I sucked it up after 15 years and decided it was time to take back my freedom and choice.
Re:Windows 8 haters had the right of it. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's sesame street UI.
Here, compare:
sesamestreet.org's muppets page [sesamestreet.org]
And
The UI formerly known as Metro [in.com]
Personally, I prefer my UI to treat me like my age is greater than a single digit. Simplicity can be a good thing, in moderation. This is not in moderation, was forced, unwanted, and hurtful to their brand and reputation.
Sesamestreet UI is a nonstarter on a desktop.
Re:The betting pool is now open... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not good enough. The Start menu has to return
No, it doesn't. Microsoft doesn't have to do anything. Haven't you figured that out yet?
Re:mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:4, Insightful)
Change for the sake of change is not a rational nor beneficial paradigm.
Know what else hasn't changed much over the aeons? Bacteria. Sure, they have a chemical arms race with each other, but the basic package? Been basically the same for hundreds of millions of years, because it is the best at what the germs need to survive.
Simply because something "has been around forever!" Does not mean it should be abandoned.
Perhaps a different quote is needed? "If it isn't broke, don't fix it." For MANY users, the start menu is NOT broken. There is no need to "fix" it, outside of the arrogance of self important design idiots, who feel that UIs should change like yearly fashion trends, and for the same reasons.
Newsflash. Just because something is old, doesn't mean it is the wrong tool for the job, nor does it mean holding onto it is wrong.
Just take the CLI out of a mainstream linux, and force the GUI experience 100% for all tasks, and state blithely that "some people just can't let go of the command line". Watch your userbase run for the hills.
For a company who's tagline is "where do you want to go today?", they sure have a strange way of listening to the answer to that question.
The userbase has clearly and definitively spoken on the issue.
Asserting that the userbase is wrong/afraid of change/some other canard is completely wrongheaded.
Either give your customers what they want, or they will find somebody else who will.
Re:mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:100 million Windows 8 licenses sold (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:5, Insightful)
Do tech support for your mother in law. Then you'll see just how critically important a start menu is.
Re:good (Score:5, Insightful)
The actual hierarchical start menu? Worthless legacy cruft that has been more or less replaced by search anyway.
Not worthless. Search assumes you know what you want to search for and have some idea about what it is called. If I know I want to use one of the administrative tools but I can't remember what it is called, a hierarchical system makes sense. I can choose "administrative tools" as a starting point for self discovery. If I have no idea, I can start at the top and work my way through the options that have been categorized in some meaningful way. If I am in a branch of the hierarchy that is unrelated to what I am looking for, I can move on quickly -- I don't have to scan an unorganized list of all the possible options.
My biggest complaint (and others share this view) about Metro is that the interface is not self discoverable - you can't just look at the interface and get visual clues as to what you need to do (or even can do). Lack of a hierarchical menu system that contains all the options is a big part of this.
Re: The betting pool is now open... (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:The betting pool is now open... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not good enough. The Start menu has to return
No, it doesn't. Microsoft doesn't have to do anything. Haven't you figured that out yet?
I do not think Microsoft is as arrogant as people on this very anti-MS site make it them out to be. They have a corporate culture of release first and ask questions and fixes later. This is due to MS past as a monopolist. If it is ok it will take over the market. If it sucks then fix it next release after it has baked a little bit etc.
1st versions ... failed ... failed (Mac users are oddly what kept Excel alive in the earlier years) ... failed ... failed ... failed ... failed ... failed
Windows
Office
Windows NT
Internet Explorer
WindowsCE
Vista
Visual Studio
All these products are the hallmark of what MS is today and bring in the revenue. So they assume once it is out they can improve as people will automatically use just because it is from Microsoft. They are sadly still right in this area. Microsoft assumes oh, next release we will tweek it and Apple will be out of business next.
What bothered me most about Windows 8 is that METRO had HUGE potential but it was so fucking rushed. If Metro had a task bar, start menu, had app stacking, more than 1 app at a time, aero to navigate, then I could multitask with the applets and keep my mouse and keyboard. On touch or a small 12 inch screen then auto-hide by default and BAM!
Even better if they couldn't add that do something like "Click here to start! which told lusers where the start menu is instead say "Click here to app cycle" in the corners. Windows 95 had the polish. Windows 8 did not.
Instead they made it 4 colors from 16 million, made Office 2013 blinding headache white in ALL CAPS, took areo out, and just unpolished it. What MS is making a mistake is the market is not the same as it was in the 1990s. No we are not little good sheep and our bosses who forced us to upgrade very 2 - 3 years for the greatest have a love affair with the 11 year old XP and refuse change out of fear! Windows 7 is like pulling teeth with these same users who came to XP in droves.
Apple has the mindshare with Google right behind. If tablets are going to take over the only advantage MS has is office and it was smart for MS not to port Office over to Android/iOS as it would all be over for them. MS needs to react quick and fucking polish like they did with Windows 95. Not do the old way because it worked before and we wont change motto. That start menu will be coming back. The demo artist shot of Windows 8 from 2009 is still superior in so many ways and MS has its work cut out for Windows 9.
Re:mature response to a corporate stumble (Score:2, Insightful)
Metro is good as it forces people to into an iOS-style walled garden where Microsoft gets 30% of all sales and gets to control what people install. I'm hoping you weren't looking for how Metro is good for users, because in the short and long term, it's not.
Re:The betting pool is now open... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's your point? All these big companies have a long long list of product failures, here's just a few from the portfolios of some of the big ones:
Apple:
Lisa: failed
Pippin: failed
QuickTake Camera: failed
eMate: failed
eMac: failed
eWorld: failed
G4 Cube: failed
Macintosh TV: failed
Macintosh Portable: failed
20th Anniversary Mac: failed
Ping: failed
Every second OSX release: fails (the Windows SP1 rule)
Google:
Hotpot: failed
Buzz: failed
Answers: failed
Page Creator: failed
Desktop: failed
Dictionary: failed
Audio Ads: failed
Dodgeball: failed
FastFlip: failed
Wave: failed
Google+: failing
Re:good (Score:5, Insightful)
Searching for a command/program/document you don't know the name of is like looking up how to spell words in a dictionary .... it's possible but awkward
If I already know what I am searching for then it is quicker, but if I don't ..... so it's not really a search but a quickfind ?