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Google Blocks YouTube App On Windows Phone (Again)

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  • Boo (Score:4, Insightful)

    by symbolset (646467) * on Friday August 16, 2013 @12:34AM (#44580419) Journal
    Hoo
    • Only relevant line (Score:5, Informative)

      by ShieldW0lf (601553) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:03AM (#44580521) Journal

      "Google claims that one problem with our new app is that it doesn’t always serve ads based on conditions imposed by content creators."

      Nothing more needed to be said. The rest of the article is manipulation.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by symbolset (646467) *
        Wait. You forgot to say "Microsoft says". Surely that is relevant.
        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:53AM (#44580735)
          Even funnier, Microsoft says

          "There was one sticking point in the collaboration. Google asked us to transition our app to a new coding language – HTML5... At the end of the day, experts from both companies recognized that building a YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming,"

          So one of the largest software companies in the world can't code an app to display content from a web page in HTML5?

          Maybe they should hire some people who've moved past VBA or consider getting out of the business?

          • by shutdown -p now (807394) on Friday August 16, 2013 @02:43AM (#44580931) Journal

            The problem is that "displaying content from a web page in HTML5" doesn't give you the full experience that you get from YouTube apps on iPhone and Android.

            If you want to see what I mean, delete the app from your device and try using the browser instead for a few days.

            • The YouTube website will have to deal with multiple browsers with varying capabilities and it seems unlikely Google would invest much time optimizing for a browser that has such low market-share. If the shoe was on the other foot, it's not like MS would worry about anyone else. Indeed, they didn't in the past.

              HTML5 is pretty rich now. If you're building an HTML5 for a single browser, it isn't hard to build something that's almost like a native app.

              I suspect part of the real reason for MS not wanting to
          • by gl4ss (559668)

            that's even funnier considering that MS says their browser for windows phone is desktop quality.

            (it isn't, of course, at least if you think desktop quality as supporting stuff their desktop ie10 does and of course stuff that it doesn't support is the stuff that makes it easier to develop flexible screen size pages)

            anyways.. try to make an unofficial hotmail client and good luck with that!

          • The meaning of open (Score:5, Interesting)

            by recoiledsnake (879048) on Friday August 16, 2013 @06:21AM (#44581669)

            It's curious to see Google pull this.
            From http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/meaning-of-open.html [blogspot.com]

            "At Google we believe that open systems win. They lead to more innovation, value, and freedom of choice for consumers, and a vibrant, profitable, and competitive ecosystem for businesses. Many companies will claim roughly the same thing since they know that declaring themselves to be open is both good for their brand and completely without risk. After all, in our industry there is no clear definition of what open really means. It is a Rashomon-like term: highly subjective and vitally important." ..
            "To understand our position in more detail, it helps to start with the assertion that open systems win. This is counter-intuitive to the traditionally trained MBA who is taught to generate a sustainable competitive advantage by creating a closed system, making it popular, then milking it through the product life cycle. The conventional wisdom goes that companies should lock in customers to lock out competitors." ...
            "To understand our position in more detail, it helps to start with the assertion that open systems win. This is counter-intuitive to the traditionally trained MBA who is taught to generate a sustainable competitive advantage by creating a closed system, making it popular, then milking it through the product life cycle. The conventional wisdom goes that companies should lock in customers to lock out competitors. There are different tactical approaches — razor companies make the razor cheap and the blades expensive, while the old IBM made the mainframes expensive and the software ... expensive too. Either way, a well-managed closed system can deliver plenty of profits. They can also deliver well-designed products in the short run — the iPod and iPhone being the obvious examples — but eventually innovation in a closed system tends towards being incremental at best (is a four blade razor really that much better than a three blade one?) because the whole point is to preserve the status quo. Complacency is the hallmark of any closed system. If you don't have to work that hard to keep your customers, you won't." ...
            "In other words, Google's future depends on the Internet staying an open system, and our advocacy of open will grow the web for everyone - including Google."

            The entire thing is a good read.

        • by rtfa-troll (1340807) on Friday August 16, 2013 @02:24AM (#44580845)

          Wait. You forgot to say "Microsoft says". Surely that is relevant.

          not to mention smarmy bits like

          inconsistent with Google’s own commitment of openness

          Which basically means

          we would never let you be compatible for free; look at how we block free implementations of ActiveSync; however we demand that Google let us into their market so we can fuck them because they aren't nearly as nasty as we are

          Microsoft are a bunch of hypocrites as ever. Google should not be opening up anything for them until Microsoft fully opens all of their server protocols; clearly shows remorse for the things they have done in the past (including clearly identifying who was responsible and ensuring that they are handed over to the justice system) and fully and clearly compensates all of the companies and people (Sendo; Netscape; Borland; Novell; IBM etc.) they have damaged in the past through abuse of their monopoly situation.

          If some guy has come by and been caught robbing you several times, that does not make it discrimination if you don't invite him when you invite all your other neighbours over.

          • by symbolset (646467) *
            Agreed. Microsoft's CEO: "I'm going to fucking kill Google. I've done it before and I can do it again." Not much ambiguity there. Backed up by more than $16B in spend so far.
      • by tlhIngan (30335) <slashdot@ w o r f.net> on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:22AM (#44580613)

        "Google claims that one problem with our new app is that it doesnâ(TM)t always serve ads based on conditions imposed by content creators."

        Nothing more needed to be said. The rest of the article is manipulation.

        And Microsoft claims the API doesn't let them do that, which is possible. Perhaps Google doesn't expose the necessary APIs. Or perhaps to get the ad, you call "GetAd" with the video ID, and expect Google to Do The Right Thing(tm) and return an appropriate ad (which makes sense - do you expect the client to retrieve the ad, do some analysis and if it doesn't work, get another ad? Geez, look at the bandwidth waste!). Of course, perhaps Microsoft isn't dumb and they looked at how Google wrote their YouTube apps on iOS and Android, and saw they were calling some unknown API to fix it.

        Of course, "Google Can Do No Evil" attitude is quite prevalent, and I suppose like Apple fanboys, they refuse to see any bad things their company does. It's easy to hate Microsoft. It's easy to hate Apple. But hate Google and the fanboys can be just as vicious as Apple ones.

        • by ShieldW0lf (601553) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:47AM (#44580701) Journal

          "Google claims that one problem with our new app is that it doesnâ(TM)t always serve ads based on conditions imposed by content creators."

          Nothing more needed to be said. The rest of the article is manipulation.

          And Microsoft claims the API doesn't let them do that, which is possible. Perhaps Google doesn't expose the necessary APIs. Or perhaps to get the ad, you call "GetAd" with the video ID, and expect Google to Do The Right Thing(tm) and return an appropriate ad (which makes sense - do you expect the client to retrieve the ad, do some analysis and if it doesn't work, get another ad? Geez, look at the bandwidth waste!). Of course, perhaps Microsoft isn't dumb and they looked at how Google wrote their YouTube apps on iOS and Android, and saw they were calling some unknown API to fix it.

          Of course, "Google Can Do No Evil" attitude is quite prevalent, and I suppose like Apple fanboys, they refuse to see any bad things their company does. It's easy to hate Microsoft. It's easy to hate Apple. But hate Google and the fanboys can be just as vicious as Apple ones.

          No. Microsoft doesn't claim the API doesn't let them do that. They are very careful in their wording. "Our app serves Google’s advertisements using all the metadata available to us." and " We’ve asked Google to provide whatever information iPhone and Android get so that we can mirror the way ads are served on these platforms more precisely. So far at least, Google has refused to give this information to us." do not add up to "The API doesn't let us do that"

          Google are the new Doubleclick, and claiming they do no evil is ridiculous, but so is your post.

          • by symbolset (646467) *
            Google is running a service. I believe the appropriate terms are "we reserve the right to refuse service."
          • by TubeSteak (669689)

            Google are the new Doubleclick, and claiming they do no evil is ridiculous, but so is your post.

            Why we're buying DoubleClick
            Posted: Tuesday, June 26, 2007
            http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/06/why-were-buying-doubleclick.html [blogspot.com]

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by cheater512 (783349)

          Except a whole pile of other apps like the Blackberry one use the exact same APIs Microsoft has access to.
          And Google doesn't have a problem with them.

          The Google apps for iOS and Android do use other APIs to the public one for companies like Microsoft.
          However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app.

          • by wmac1 (2478314) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:52AM (#44580729)

            However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app.

            Who said that?

          • by Holi (250190)

            What, no Google refused to write the app for Microsoft. Microsoft did nothing of the sort.

            "Google, which makes official YouTube apps for iPhones and Android devices, has refused to build one for Windows Phone. The company claims that the market share of Windows Phone is too small to justify the effort and resources it will have to make to create official apps."

            "However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app." - This is a flat out lie and is the complete opposite from the reality of t

        • MicroSoft had plenty of time to fix it after they got into the first round of the altercation. I doubt they'd have trouble if they actually asked Google for coding help when they found out (they must have done that themselves) that they didn't get the ads serving done properly using the documented API calls. To me this seems like a case of "too stubborn and proud to accept they need help" and they got their app blocked.

          Mind you, it's not as if you can't view YouTube on Windows Phone 8 anymore, it's just th

        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @02:26AM (#44580859)

          It's easy to hate Microsoft.

          So you say, but to be fair, how can you hate them when they've generously retracted all the vicious slanders they've hurled at Google and other competitors over the years? Scroogled, anyone?

          How can you stay angry with them when they've so publicly recanted their "235 patents", "FOSS is a cancer" and "Get the Facts" lies and done so much to redress the damage to Linux and the FOSS community?

          Why would you hold them in contempt when they're reversed all the damage they caused by whiteanting ISO and blocking the adoption of genuinely open document formats? Though it's true that it would be better if they stopped issuing fake DMCA takedowns [techdirt.com] of their competitors.

          And of course, there's no way in the world they could have deliberately provoked this latest contretemps by publishing a non-conforming app without informing or consulting the Google engineers who'd been working with them. That'd be really unlikely, especially given how much contrition they've shown for their past misadventures...

        • by symbolset (646467) *
          Microsoft's problem here is not "embrace". It's that their partner understands the next two steps are "extend" and "extinguish". Google's opting out at the hug.
      • by AK Marc (707885)
        You left out the part where Microsoft asserts this is due to Google hiding metadata from Microsoft that is provided to other YouTube apps, which is the cause of the divergence.
    • by MightyMartian (840721) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:17AM (#44580577) Journal

      "But boy, Microsoft didn't take it quietly."

      Good for Microsoft, defending all eight of its Windows Phone customers.

    • by ls671 (1122017)

      I must admit it is kind reinvigorating to see Microsoft getting the same kind of treatment only Microsoft could give to others just 5 to 10 years ago. I am not saying Google is better although, their turn might come some day too.

  • These kind of little inter-corporate kerfuffles happen from time to time.

    Hmm. I'm not sure it's interoperable issue when it come to MS, it's always furthering their agenda. In this case, removing ads and preventing Google from monetizing the content it delivers.

    When we first built a YouTube app for Windows Phone, we did so with the understanding that Google claimed to grow its business based on open access to its platforms and content

    Fuck right off MS. You claim to grow your XBox business via games and subscription fees, but your EULA says I can't block the ads on the homepage with my router without being in breech of your EULA. Oh, but you're fine with blocking Google's ads and then playing the martyr when they ban your app just like you banned my xbox.

  • Suck it up, MS (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Dog-Cow (21281)

    Both the iOS and Android apps are written by Google. They are free to do whatever they want. Any 3rd-party that wants to display videos in their app has to use the HTML5 (or Flash) player. I don't see why MS should be treated differently.

    I presume that MS reserves the right for first-party apps on Windows Phone to use private APIs to implement features no other app can have. Apple certainly does this. Similarly, Google is not bound to using Dalvik for UI if they don't want to.

    • by SuperKendall (25149) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:03AM (#44580525)

      Both the iOS and Android apps are written by Google.

      That's not true. There are scores of YouTube playing apps on the iOS app store. You can download an IOS YouTube app written by Google, but it's not the only one and I don't think ships by default on the device anymore.

      I presume that MS reserves the right for first-party apps on Windows Phone to use private APIs to implement features no other app can have. Apple certainly does this.

      Apple generally does NOT do this. Not because they are a bunch of saints but because they are not a bunch of damn amateur coders.

      Apple doesn't use private API's for their own software for the same reason they don't want other app developers to - because using private APIs means breakage at some point down the line, or because you want to do an API change but some moron on Word (or Pages) made use of a private API and now you have to coordinate with them as to when you can change the API. API interfaces are there for a reason... they protect both sides.

      Of course internal Apple products have earlier access to API updates than everyone else (and probably more say as to what API changes need to be made), but there has been no indication that most Apple software that ships on iOS is doing anything you couldn't do yourself. Apple even demonstrates at WWDC how to make apps similar to ones they are shipping.

      There are sort of exceptions to the rule in that at times there are whole private frameworks they use to implement some feature (like carrousels) or Settings.app which has to manipulate all kinds of things other applications are not allowed to touch. But by and large any Apple iOS application could be written from scratch if you had a mind to do so.

  • and let Google code there own youtube app with MS having no say or control over the app.

  • And a double-pox on the idiots that think everything on the web needs to be duplicated in an 'app.'
  • I actually own a Windows phone, and it sucks that Google's acting like jerks. But really, what goes around, comes around.

    • by symbolset (646467) * on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:10AM (#44580549) Journal
      I actually own a Windows Phone too. It's an HTC HD7 my wife bought to spite me (ah, domestic bliss). She did it right - this was a WP "hero" phone, the benchmark of that day. She used it for three weeks thinking to school me but after a few rounds of "how do I do that cool thing you do on your Galaxy Phone" and the reply "your phone doesn't have that app" she gave up. It's in a drawer somewhere. I haven't seen it in a year. She uses a feature phone now, and is thinking about the Moto X - a real wood skin and awesome life would be just the thing to show up my GS3 with the ultrathick 3rd party extended life battery. She bought the teens iPhones to spite me quite more successfully. Our teens love their iPhones and I don't blame them - they're great gear. iThings are not my thing, but you have to let kids find their own religion.
    • by MightyMartian (840721) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:27AM (#44580643) Journal

      +10 Unintentional Irony

      Poor Microsoft, the company whose motto was at one time "It's not done until Lotus won't run!" The company that intentionally used a non-compliant Kerberos variant to foul up interoperability with *nix systems. The company that went out of its way to kill Netscape and then let the web rot for five years with IE6. The company that intentionally violated its Java licensing agreement with Sun in an attempt to enact its major philosophy; "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish".

      Yes indeed, what goes around does indeed come around.

    • by shione (666388)

      NO. Because that would be helping microsoft to become a monopoly again. And you know what will happen then. Do you really think they have changed their ways?

  • by Guest316 (3014867) on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:17AM (#44580575)
    ...who introduced intentional glitches in Windows when it detected [archive.org] you were running it on anything but genuine MS-DOS.

    Not that I have a whole lot of sympathy for Google these days either...
  • Perhaps Microsoft should stop spreading FUD about Google? Or perhaps they should stop forming shill organizations to do their dirty work by proxy. Or perhaps they should stop trying to undermine Google by pleading with governments to investigate them for anti-trust violations. But, let's start off easily and just retire those pathetic and embarrassing Gmail Man ads. I have to give credit to Google for graciously hosting them on YouTube - I would have deleted their account and blocked their IP.

    Microsoft is s

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Man there's a lot of Google fan boys on Slashdot. Google is screwing over MS and yeah MS if fun to pick on but look around Google is quickly becoming "the man". We should all be giving them both barrels over this. Cutting MS out for the 2nd time and trying to close off access to youtube is ridiculous. If youtube was a separate company no way in hell would they want turn away an additional user base like this.

    I'm one of those windows phone users and the original app that just wrapped the web version stun

  • ...when I ran into this: "that it doesnâ(TM)t impose on its own platform or Appleâ(TM)s (both of which use Google as the default search engine, of course).". So, they complain about an app being blocked, but they start by pointing fingers - again - about search engine use. FairSearch anyone? So after that line, I couldn't care less. MS wants a Youtube app on WP? Then do that Google wants, s*ck it up - remember (funny they'd need to be reminded so often) your users should have the priority, not you
  • They blocked it with a weird message.

    Instead, they could have Rick-Rolled them, which would have shown a sense of style, panache, and humor.

    Shame on you, Google!

  • Is there some big advantage to viewing youtube via an app? I just use the browser on IOS. I used to use the app before it was removed in an upgrade, but I don't remember the experience being any better.
  • Whining blog post. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by drolli (522659) on Friday August 16, 2013 @02:26AM (#44580861) Journal

    As far as i can see, MS wants google to maintain a non-standard (non html5) interface to youtube. The precedence cases it cites for such an interface are apps which existed before html5 was settled enough to be ready for that. Google wants to serve cotent by html5 and advised MS to use html5 to *correctly* display the videos. MS like to do their own shit and expects google to maintain an interface for them.

    Dear MS: Earlier in your life, you may have had the position where any company would have loved to create an interface so that your applications talk to it, and maybe thats still the case for office apps. I dont see exactly how i can access office 356 by and API so that i could lets say... implement and own small helping app on android to enter some data in some documents. Wouldnt that be the same kind of thing? O i forgot probably theo people who like to do it are not big enough to be interesting for you. So neither is the market share of windows phone.

    I agree that a complete API to youtube would be nice, but there are many things which google should rank higher in their priorities.

  • Google also deleted http://www.youtube.com/my_subscriptions [youtube.com] today removing option too see your subscriptions in GRID form.
    Now instead of looking at a page with 30 videos you are forced to scroll through 4 videos at a time, rest of the page is dedicated to ads and recommendations.

  • by crossmr (957846) on Friday August 16, 2013 @04:27AM (#44581305) Journal

    Speaking of openness,
    hey microsoft, whose leg do I have to hump to get through to someone who speaks passable english and can address bug reports?
    Your android version of skype is completely and utterly broken and has been for weeks.
    From a complete lack of a button to get into an existing call that hasn't been picked up. skype inexplicably dumps you from the call screen while it's ringing with no way to get back in if you want to hang up prior to it being answered or say if you reach an elderly person who doesn't believe in voicemail which means the voice just rings forever)
    to ghost rings which simply refuse to stop ringing even after you've signed out of and terminated the skype app. Not only do they continue during your call making it impossible to talk to the other person, after you sign-out, terminate the app from memory, your phone is still somehow still ringing requiring your to actually restart your device to make it stop.

    Maybe if you got your act together people might be more willing to cut you some slack, but lets face facts. You're a shit company, with shit methodologies, and nobody really cares about your struggles.

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