Yahoo Deletes Journalist's Pre-Paid Legacy Site After Suicide 403
New submitter digitalFlack writes "Apparently Martin Manley has been a popular blogger and newspaper journalist for many years. For his own reasons, no indication of illness, he decided sixty years on this planet was enough. He designed a 40-page website with sections such as: 'Why Suicide?' and 'Why Age 60?.' Martin planned his suicide meticulously, but to manage his legacy, he picked Yahoo. He even pre-paid for five years. After he left this mortal coil on his 60th birthday, Yahoo decided they don't want his traffic, so they took the site down. Sorry, Martin."
Why isn't this tagged with the censorship logo? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only was this website paid for, it was obviously part of the deceased's last wishes. If Yahoo has no respect for the law or its customers, it should at least show some respect to a dude's last wish.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:2, Insightful)
Since he's dead and can no longer defend his publication, it effectively becomes Yahoo's own publication, so it would be Yahoo condoning suicide. That someone should commit suicide for whatever reason is at best a controversial point of view. It might even be seen as inciting suicide and could be illegal. So yes, obviously what's on the page does have everything to do with it being taken down. If he wanted someone to be there to fight his fights, he could have stayed and done it himself, you know?
But on a more general note: It's bad enough that the rich extend their reach beyond their death by leaving their heritage to immortal foundations. The world belongs to the living. It should be much harder to control what happens after you die. Just prepaying doesn't do it.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:3, Insightful)
I would speculate it's not a question of how he committed suicide. Had he had a Star Wars fan site or something, it would have been left up. But that's not what it was: it was a site that, in part, explained why he committed suicide. And it may be at least somewhat reasonable for Yahoo to interpret that as promoting suicide, and quite reasonable for it to take down the site for that reason.
Re:They didn't know he also... (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember: it's Ya-"let's delete early Internet history because keeping 1TB around is too expensive"-hoo we're talking about.
Never trust Yahoo. Ever.
Re:They didn't know he also... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yahoo has contractual obligation to provide service
Do they? Have you read the contract? It is possible that the contract has a termination clause in the event of death. It is also quite likely that advocating or promoting suicide is a violation of the terms of service. Contracts have fine print for a reason.
Re:Why isn't this tagged with the censorship logo? (Score:2, Insightful)
If the website was in the deceased's name, the contract ended upon that person's death. You are under no obligation to honor a contract to a dead person.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:4, Insightful)
It definitely belongs to his estate. No "maybe" about it.
Read a little of it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:5, Insightful)
From what I read of it, he was talking about his personal feelings and opinions.
I could see if it were a site that he put video of his own suicide on, or other graphic depictions, there would be a reason to remove it. In this case, there was none. It was left as his legacy, or at least for the 5 years he paid for.
There was no good justification in taking it down, except possibly that it took too much traffic. If it were a small hosting company, and had a negative impact on services to other customers, I could see it. Yahoo has enough resources to continue supporting that site for the full term as paid for.
Re:good for him! (Score:5, Insightful)
Putting a bullet to your head in front of witnesses and the police means there's little to no investigation - or, cost to society. They clean up the street, but it's obvious why, how, and when you died.
Disappearing into the woods could prompt a million-dollar manhunt trying to 'rescue' you, until or unless they find you first. And once they do find you, they'll have to do an autopsy to investigate cause of death - possibly quite an expensive one, as your remains will have degraded. You'll cause a lot of extra cost and grief to society that you could have avoided.
Maybe that was important to him.
Re:Why isn't this tagged with the censorship logo? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is a blatant lie ie a lawyer appointed by a person to carry out their last will and testament is bound by contractual law to honour that contract. Same for leaving estate to pets et al. Face it Yahoo are a bunch of douche bag shits heads for what they have done and the stink of an ex-google bimbo is all over it.
As for some of the reasons the dude committed suicide, reincarnation might obviate the exercise and even worse place him in even worse circumstance ;D.
Re:good for him! (Score:5, Insightful)
I intend to be living a fantastic life and raising hell for another decade or three yet. Deal with it.
So... your magic number isn't 60, but possibly 85 or 90. Ok, that's fine. I am more than happy to let you define how long you think your quality of life is good. So what happens after that?
I've one great-great-uncle who lived to be 106. (They found him one evening leaned up against a fencepost, where he'd evidently stopped to take a little break whilst making his daily walk around his farm. Nothing wrong with him, the doctor said, except that he finally just wore out.)
Yeah, and I've got an 80+ year old great uncle in-law or something who's been bedridden for years now. Adult-onset type 2 diabetes. The diabetes so far has caused blindness, and has led to the amputation of both legs. It could happen to anyone, even you. 51 is a long way from 70.
My own grandfather developed Alzheimer's, and although he remained perfectly healthy in body until the end, that was probably the most horrifying and heart wrenching thing to undergo. He was terrified at least for as long as knew what was happening, and it wasn't much better for those around him.
We all wish to age gracefully, die in our sleep peacefully, and while I agree arbitrarily committing suicide on your 60th birthday is nuts... committing suicide when the circumstances of your final days are rapidly becoming apparent is pretty rational in my books.
Re:They didn't know he also... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do they? Have you read the contract? It is possible that the contract has a termination clause in the event of death. It is also quite likely that advocating or promoting suicide is a violation of the terms of service. Contracts have fine print for a reason.
Don't they? Have YOU read the contract? Is it fair to assume that documenting one's own reasons for suicide constitutes promoting it?
Indeed, contracts do have fine print for a reason. That reason is for high and mighty business thugs such as yourself to be able to dick over little guys without making them aware of it beforehand. It's pretty simple - Yahoo was caught trying to (quietly) weasel out of their responsibilities to avoid backlash for hosting speech that they realized would be unpopular with some people. A spineless move.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure anybody who knew him would like to read it. That may very well include people who didn't know him all that well, so a website would be an obvious way to reach all potentially interested parties. A major part of the reason for creating the site may be to comfort those left behind. With that in mind I cannot see how anybody could think it was an acceptable move from Yahoo.
Re:They didn't know he also... (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember: it's Ya-"let's delete early Internet history because keeping 1TB around is too expensive"-hoo we're talking about. Never trust Yahoo. Ever.
You're talking about Geocities? Well, actually it was *several* terabytes, so it would have cost them two or three *hundred* dollars to store all that. Quite a lot for a small company like Yahoo. *cough*
In all seriousness, I agree with you- I guessed at the time of the shutdown that the storage requirements would be in the ballpark of the low-terabytes (slight underestimate, but not by much), and- more importantly- that the cost of the traffic would (by modern standards) be negligible. Indeed, the profit or loss- either way- at that time would have been small by Yahoo's standards, but I figured out that they should still be able to easily turn a profit it by making it archive-only. *If* they'd been that bothered about it, that is.
The conclusion I came to was that the reasons for shutting down Geocities "probably had more to do with either indirect legal issues (tax write-offs, accounting and the like) or some executive who wanted to be seen doing something that looked more significant than it actually was." [slashdot.org] Things I read later pretty much confirmed I was right on this.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:4, Insightful)
The content does, but the publishing contract ends. A dead person can not be part in a contract. Continued publication would be Yahoo's responsibility, and they would be nuts to keep publishing something this controversial.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:4, Insightful)
I sincerely believe that for every problem you try to solve through censorship, there exists a better solution. And I think freedom of speech is too important to take such a site down. But Martin Manley's right to publish this is much less important than everybody else's right to read it. There are other deceased people who have written much more harmful texts than this, which are not being censored. If you disagree with something, you present a different point of view rather than applying censorship.
I will not say this suicide was the right thing to do. But I think committing suicide leaving your friends wondering why is much worse than letting them know your reasoning behind. It would be even better if we could get those people to talk with somebody beforehand such that the decision to commit suicide is not something they are making all on their own. There may be alternatives. But we may need some changes to society to make that happen.
The concern about getting so ill or getting so old and worn out that you have only suffering left in your life is a valid concern. If any animal was in such a state you'd put it down because that is considered the most humane thing to do. Why do people have to be treated less humane than that? Martin Manley decided to put an end to his own life before it came to that. If he had believed he could be assisted to end his life once there really was nothing left to live for, he might not have been so proactive about it. In other words in a society a bit more positive towards suicide, Martin Manley might still have been alive today.
There are also stories about terminally ill people who travel to a different country just so they can legally be assisted in suicide instead of facing a slow and painful death. Some of those decide to take this final trip to die sooner than they would otherwise have done because they would otherwise be too weak to take the trip. Many would much rather have stayed home and lived for a few months longer among friends and family and then end life quietly when their health was getting too bad.
Finally being assisted in a suicide after having talked it over with your closest relatives plus a doctor and a psychiatrist would be the most humane way to end life for some people. When those people commit suicide on their own, it is a failure of society to treat them humanely.
It is even worse when a young and mostly healthy person end their own life. I don't know if I could ever be convinced that could ever be the right way to go. A friend of mine did that at the age of 31. I didn't see that coming. I don't know if I will ever stop wondering if there was anything we could have done differently.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:3, Insightful)
Freedom of speech does not obligate a private party to be your voice platform.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually you can read what he wrote, just on a mirror of his site. Inadvertently yahoo have invoked the Streisand effect.
It is interesting what he has written and also what he hasn't. One thing was a failing memory that was one thing he didn't like the idea of having to be taken care of in future years another issue was the costs associated with getting old his medical insurance was due to expire sometime next year and he didn't see that as being affordable. Wanting to leave a legacy and not to be a burden on the state.
There are other reasons that he wrote about which you can choose to read about if you wish.
What he didn't write about was love, ok he was interested in the future of his step children but there was no love in his life, nobody who was special in his eyes nobody who he woke up with each morning no one who he treasured being in his life. That to me seems key. I'm not young and with my health i can't expect to live to any great age. Do i want to die earlier than i have too? the answer is without doubt no.
4 years ago I had a heart attack and in the ambulance, although i didn't know it was a heart attack i knew it was serious and I also knew I felt i was too young for this! Three months later I had to return to the hospital, but this time i drove myself and with periods of crushing chest pains i got there and parked my car and walked the 400 or 500 yards to the A&E department - maybe the hardest walk of my life. To finally present myself at the desk and say i think i'm having a heart attack in actuality it was a 97% blocked coronary artery. Was a tough 24 hours but after a stent fitted i was ok again.
Recovery in the months that followed was difficult, the 50% rate after a first heart attack is about 6 to 8 years and thats after 30% who died of that first heart attack. Becoming mortal, and realising there was a fair chance that I might not last that much longer was quite depressing, some outstanding long term goals have had to be put aside as I don't see them as viable any more.
On the positive side since then I've met the most wonderful woman around my age (for a change) and loving her makes all the difference. We are living too far apart right now but that we can work on. She is in my thoughts everyday and well I hope we get to grow old together. You see being rich or poor is not that important but being with someone you love is. Without love your life can be without reason.
Thing is you don't know when fate will bring you together but it can happen any day if you leave an opportunity for it too occur. Any way love is why I want to keep on living, trying to do the best I can for the people I care about and why I won't bow out by suicide. Family, friends, and an understanding lover what else matters.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? Because it is controversial? Some one needs to talk about it. This is the core problem now. Everyone is afraid to offend someone.
Political Correctness can be so fucking offensive.
Re: They didn't know he also... (Score:4, Insightful)
Three months later I had to return to the hospital, but this time i drove myself and with periods of crushing chest pains i got there and parked my car and walked the 400 or 500 yards to the A&E department - maybe the hardest walk of my life.
I was going to say no offense in prefix to this, but rethought it... offense intended....
Driving to the hospital when you think you're having a heart attack is one of the most monumentally stupid ideas I have ever heard of in my entire life, and that includes 6 years in the army and several more years working for the government as a civilian. If it's a medical emergency, call an ambulance. That is what they are there for.
And don't try to tell me it was rural so therefore no ambulance service: you yourself said that you had to walk a quarter mile to the front door of the hospital after parking, which suggests a large and mostly full parking lot. This suggests that you were in an urban area.
Re:good for him! (Score:4, Insightful)
Suicide and euthenasia are ancient taboos, with a strong religious influence propping that view up in the supposedly modern day. A truly enlightened populace would be able to maturely address, and deal with, such issues as simple life choices.
"Checking out today sir?"
"Yes, thanks; I've enjoyed my stay".