NHTSA Gives the Model S Best Safety Rating of Any Car In History 627
cartechboy writes "Even crashing into a wall is good news nowadays for Tesla Motors. Independent testing by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has awarded the company a 5-star safety rating, not just overall, but in every subcategory. While its five-star score across the board has been attained by other vehicles (around one percent of all cars tested are capable of such a score) its ratings in individual categories are higher than any other vehicle, including larger SUVs and minivans. What's really interesting is that part of the safety rating may be because the car is electric."
Safety rating is because... (Score:2, Informative)
The Tesla broke the roof testing jig and NHTSA had to raise their rating ceiling - another good day for TSLA
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:5, Informative)
Or you could read the article and see that in the areas considered for the tests, many of the common safety tests wouldn't even work, they couldn't roll the car over with standard techniques, they couldn't crush the passenger compartment with a standard crusher, and they had a HUGE crumple zone.
Re:Still A Toy (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Five Star (Score:4, Informative)
The Model S starts in the $60k range and for many people who finance and factor in the gas savings monthly the payments are equivalent to that of more reasonably priced car right out the door. Also Tesla has stated that they are planning a more mass market mid-priced car in 2-3 years.
Model S vs Hummer (Score:1, Informative)
You'll find out real quick that weight makes a big difference... Assume a Humvee and a Model S collide Head on, both going the same speed.
Because the Humvee has greater mass, the Model S would wind up going backwards, and the Humvee would continue moving forward after the collision.
This means the actual amount of energy that needs to dissipate in the Model S is much higher than the Humvee, because the change in velocity is much higher, and the amount of energy expended in the collision is = 1/2 * mass * (change in velocity) ^ 2
I think to call it the 'safest car ever' is quite a bold lie. Clearly there are safer vehicles out there ( Tanks, Semi-Trucks, even airplanes). These NSHTA safety ratings are done for ludicrously slow speeds as well! Don't expect a lot of safety at 70mph...
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-calculate-velocities-of-two-objects-with-di.html
Re:Still A Toy (Score:5, Informative)
However, at a price point of $80 - 100K, it's going to remain a playtoy for people with money, not become the OMG super-car replacement for mom's $30K Volvo.
True, but it is the norm for the expensive, novel safety features of today's luxury cars to become standard on econoboxes a few years down the road. Airbags (front, then side), antilock brakes, traction control, etc. have all migrated down the market. You can bet that - particularly among carmakers whose reputations rely on safety as a marketing tool, like Volvo - there will be engineers very closely scrutinizing this car for design features that can be adapted or stolen.
More important, some of the safety benefits are pretty much inherent to the electric design. Not needing to allow for a big, solid metal engine block means that the front crumple zone can be engineered more effectively. Having heavy battery packs under the floor of the vehicle makes rollovers much more difficult. These types of benefits will be accessible to any electric design, not just the $80,000 ones.
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:5, Informative)
Or you could read the article and see that in the areas considered for the tests, many of the common safety tests wouldn't even work, they couldn't roll the car over with standard techniques, they couldn't crush the passenger compartment with a standard crusher, and they had a HUGE crumple zone.
Also, for the roof crush test the crushing machine broke before the roof did.
The Tesla Model S is an extremely well-engineered machine. It's expensive, yes, but in most respects it's simply superior to equivalently-priced luxury cars. I'm really looking forward to their next generation, which is intended to be priced more mid-market (probably in the 30s).
Re:Five Star (Score:5, Informative)
They're working toward that. Iteration 1 was a $110,000 sports car. Iteration 2 is a $60,000 sedan. Iteration 3 is an SUV. Iteration 4 is aiming for a $30,000 every-man's car.
Re:Still A Toy (Score:5, Informative)
In some parts of the U.S., $100K a year barely covers rent and utilities on a decent apartment.
Re:Still A Toy (Score:5, Informative)
I make a bit over $100K and live in Silicon Valley yet I had no problem affording this car, in part due to careful money management and paying off my house early and not living beyond my means. I have met a number of other owners, and not all of them are super wealthy. One of my coworkers bought one as well. For years I poured every extra cent into paying down my mortgage since it started at over 7%. Of course it also helps that I bought before the dot com boom. I financed a majority of the car, but less than many people in order to keep investing my money.
By financing I took some of the money that I didn't spend on the loan and bought some Tesla stock when it was at $35. It's the best investment I've made. I just wish I bought more stock when I did.
I met many people at the Teslive convention a month ago. Many of the Tesla owners are not what I would consider super wealthy. Many are retired. In fact, a breakdown of what people drove before the Model S was rather interesting. Many did not drive luxury cars. My previous car was a 2006 Prius which is sitting in my driveway and hasn't been driven in two months. I'll probably sell it.
Yes, the Tesla is an expensive car. In my case, it's my midlife crisis car.
Tesla has repeatedly said that they plan to come out with a car in the $30-40K range. Their biggest problem is batteries. During the last earnings report they stated that there is simply no way to get the volume of batteries they need. They need to ramp up the production facilities and their suppliers before they can hope to meet the demand. In order to meet the demand for the lower priced car they would need to manufacture more 18650 lithium batteries than are made for all laptops combined. While there is no shortage of lithium, they need to build up production.
As it is, right now Tesla is limited in the number of cars they can sell by their suppliers. They're supply limited, not demand limited.
Re:Five Star (Score:2, Informative)
How is a $60k car reasonably priced? You could pick up a BMW 320i and 2700 gallons of gas at $10 a gallon. At 30MPG and a yearly average of 15k miles that's over 5 years of driving with gas at $10 a gallon. It seems even less reasonable if you consider an actual reasonable car such as an Accord, Camry or Taurus and a gas price of $5 a gallon.
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:5, Informative)
Because US regulations don't require them while other markets do. The Europeans and Japanese just don't bother to make market-specific taillights, they just follow the Euro regs which also meet US regs.
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:3, Informative)
No idiot, he's right, you're wrong. Cars typically don't take impact on the roof, and there are only a few inches of room to crush before your spine starts to get crushed. Race cars use solid-as-fuck roll cages to keep the roof from absorbing any energy, it seems to work well.
In fact most purpose-built race cars have a space frame that is EXTREMELY rigid with carbon fiber/aluminum honeycomb "crash boxes" stuck to the front and rear bumpers that act as crumple zones.
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:4, Informative)
Diesel engines, on the other hand, do not use spark plugs or electrical components (other than for starting the motor), so all you need is a snorkel. Those Humvees and Land-Rovers you see crossing rivers and streams with the snorkels all have diesel engines.
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:5, Informative)
Why?
Most of these scores are not based on just the cost. But on the novel design approaches. Elon Musk is building Tesla's like space ships. Using more advanced design techniques. Most automobiles are 30 year old engineering. And you may pay $100,000 for a BMW. But it's really not that much more advanced in construction than a Chevy.
Tesla went and said, let's design from the ground up and use all ideas. And that's why they did things differently. The cheaper vehicles will likely be cheaper because of performance grade of the motors will be gone, less refinement and comforts, and namely, the R&D expenditure will be re-couped.
Re:Five Star (Score:5, Informative)
Why would you compare it to BMW's cheapest entry level car? It is much closer to the 5 series in creature comforts, size, and target audience than any 3 series car and I think you will find they cost a bit more (55K base price for a 535i).
Re:Still A Toy (Score:4, Informative)
Don't get me wrong, the numbers are quite impressive - especially the following passage from TFA:
However, at a price point of $80 - 100K, it's going to remain a playtoy for people with money, not become the OMG super-car replacement for mom's $30K Volvo.
$30k Volvo? Have you priced new cars in the last ten years? The cheapest bottom-of-the-line Volvo lists at $32k, and they skyrocket from there.
Inflation has been a bitch with most car lines. A roughly comparably priced Volvo (S80) with "normal" options is $50k, and is vastly less well equipped.
Re:Model S vs Hummer (Score:5, Informative)
Numbers!
Tesls S: 4647
Base 4x2 F150:4685
base 4x4 F150 5000
The 5th Gen Camero weight about 3700
BWM 5 series 3700.
The ford focus 2960 pounds
Just for some idea of how much cars weigh.
Re:Still A Toy (Score:5, Informative)
Long ago, folks who lived in 'black' neighborhoods were redlined - it was pretty much impossible to buy a house in those areas because the banks wouldn't lend the money, even if you were a doctor or lawyer; and often the entire neighborhood was owned by a single landlord who wasn't selling anyway. It was commonly also impossible to buy a house outside the neighborhood because the realtors wouldn't show them to you, or would say "sorry, it's already sold", or (again) the banks wouldn't loan the money. (I observed a recent incident of this type in my own town, so it's not completely gone even today. Racist idiots are less common but still around.)
So it got to be a thing back in the 1950s or 1960s for blacks to buy big fancy cars, as that was the only big-ticket outlet for their desire to move up to a nicer lifestyle. So big fancy cars got to be a tradition back then. As a result it was relatively common to see a brand new Cadillac sitting outside a run-down slum apartment. (an interesting subtext - the Detroit automakers were pretty good at hiring minorities as well & brought many blacks into the middle class, so buying a Cadillac was helping 'brothers' out.) ... or so I'm told. Traditions die hard, and slowly. So for lots of folks today, having a nice car is more meaningful than having a nice house. And it's their choice, don't knock it - different strokes, so to speak.
Re:Five Star (Score:4, Informative)
The average new car price in the US is about $30,000 [ftc.gov].
Considering you're talking about a price that's over 1.6 times that of the average, I think it's pretty damn fair to say that $50K is quite a bit for a car in 2013. It's not "very expensive" or "outrageously expensive", but you are well above what most people are buying.
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:5, Informative)
Gasoline engines do not work when submerged. They require high voltage electrical sparks to ignite the fuel. Being submerged robs them of the spark they need to run. You would have to do special waterproofing of all of the engine's electrical works before it can run submerged.
Growing up as a 'river rat,' partying with crazed rednecks and their beater 4x4s on the river beds has imparted me with the knowledge that what you say here is decidedly not true. Theoretically, you're right, but practical observation defies that theory. Hell, the most I've ever seen anyone do as far as waterproofing was to RTV their distributor shut, and even that was considered overkill.
Diesel engines, on the other hand, do not use spark plugs or electrical components (other than for starting the motor), so all you need is a snorkel. Those Humvees and Land-Rovers you see crossing rivers and streams with the snorkels all have diesel engines.
Bullshit - I've seen far, far more 6-cylinder gasoline Jeeps successfully taking a swim than anything else, save maybe Chenowth dune buggies powered by 50-year-old VW engines.
Re:Five Star (Score:4, Informative)
And are you of the opinion that improvements in safety haven't always come in on the high end first and then trickle down?
Airbags. ABS. That 3rd eye brake-light. Tire pressure sensors. Probably even more -- all of these things appeared first in higher-end cars and then made their way down to the rest of the models.
Interestingly, many of those safety innovations were developed by Mercedes [mbusa.com]:
Re:Still A Toy (Score:4, Informative)
As I mentioned, with anything short of what we would consider 'millionaire' class wealth, they could not buy or fix up the dwellings, nor could they move to a 'nice' neighborhood. The houses were not available. In some places there was a de facto inability to even record the deed for a house as yours if you were not 'white' - the lawyers wouldn't do the paperwork, the clerk would not enter it into the register. It was not a matter of money.
This can happen even if you're not a minority. Back in my early days I lived in the third floor of an old rundown house - the landlord refused to fix the leaky roof or bad plumbing, because if he did his property taxes would go up. He owned several houses in a row. He tore them all down to put in a new business office a few years later, he was just waiting for the right time and collecting free money in the meantime.
For some ideas about the roots of this social insanity, I suggest reading "Making Whiteness: The Culture of Segregation in the South, 1890-1940" (Grace Elizabeth Hale). The book is a bit controversial, but I felt the primary idea made sense. When the South lost the Civil War, this violated the heroic culture of honor that permeated the South's psyche. So in order to preserve some semblance of self-respect, a demon had to be found, which was the Negro (and what was really the beginnings of the Northern corporate state).
So the Southern view of blacks/negroes and of History changed after the war. For 60+ years the South was stuck in a kind of psychological fugue state, adopting a fantasy about the "Old South" where everything was perfect and everyone, blacks and whites, loved each other and their proper roles. Because at that time the South constituted about 1/2 of the Nation, the national political scene had to accommodate this Southern insanity. Part of this insanity involved a belief that blacks were less capable. It's instructive to discover that the lynchings and other violence was most often perpetrated on 'uppity blacks' who managed, despite the disadvantages, to develop a middle class income and lifestyle, because the appearance of a successful black person violated the sacred belief system and proved them wrong. Being wealthy was accepted in some places and not others - there are many cases of rich blacks being accepted in one town, but getting off the train in another town and being beaten and/or lynched. (It's worth noting that the railroads resisted segregated facilities for a long time, because it was more expensive.) The idea of the book is that these blacks were violating the most sacred Southern belief of all, which was that blacks could not succeed without whites to guide and help them. (This is my take on the book, which I read about six years ago, so if it's not a good reflection of the book, it's my fault.)
Re:NHTSA pushed a 5 star rating (Score:4, Informative)
While the pictures may not show it, I saw a Model X in person at the Tesla factory. It is nearly the size of an Expedition so I think it will fill the role nicely as either since it can comfortably seat 7 adults with extra storage under the frunk.