Intel Rejects Supporting Ubuntu's XMir 205
An anonymous reader writes "Just days after Intel added XMir support to their Linux graphics driver so it would work with the in-development the X11 compatibility layer to the Mir display server premiering with Ubuntu 13.10, Intel management has rejected the action and had the XMir patch reverted. There's been controversy surrounding Mir with it competing with Wayland and the state of the display server being rather immature and its performance coming up short while it will still debut in Ubuntu 13.10. Intel management had to say, "We do not condone or support Canonical in the course of action they have chosen, and will not carry XMir patches upstream." As a result, Canonical will need to ship their own packaged version of the Intel (and AMD and Nouveau drivers) with out-of-tree patches."
Surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)
Though Intel will be open to an alternative to X11 they are in no way obliged to carry an immature release just because Canonical wants to push theirs.
That is why Linux wont win the desktop (Score:4, Insightful)
When will Linux finally use standard ABIs and APIs for drivers just like very other OS on the planet?
Why can't you just use one driver written a few years ago and use it universally across all distros due to this? The other free BSDs have this and you can install the extra compat libraries to accomplish this. I guess RMS thinks that is oppressive and wants opensource hardware even though patent holders from the likes of the h.264 consortorium forbid it!
Before I get flamed remember the article mentioned ATI and NVidia drivers as well so Intel is not the asshole here. Rather they different kernels and distros being redone requiring new QA and recompiling with every release.
There is a reason many old time linux users like myself only run CentOS in a VM Now. It is because Redhat provides ABIs and APIs that do not change for 5 years. Unfortunately it also means an out of date distro as well which is not fair to non server users (even a few server users who need a newer app or framework.)
Confused (Score:4, Insightful)
So when Ubuntu 13.10 ships, it will force you to use XMir?
If so, thanks for the warning. The last thing I want to do is deal with an unstable graphics driver. It's taken years for X11 with NVidia drivers to get stable, and I don't want to touch XMir with someone else's 10-foot pole for until it's been in use for at least 2-3 years.
Re:That is why Linux wont win the desktop (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry but the patent trolls who sue everybody will make you sign a NDA making your work closed source if you make hardware. So the days of having it in the kernel are over.
Microkernels and exokernels are what acemics say are supperior and the wave of the future.
Regardless what OS doesn't use abi and api for driver development? I cant think of any modern OS? How about Mac users wanting a driver that works throughout versions? With the exception of the split between powerpc and x86 it is true on that platform. Not just Windows users.
Who wants this? I, hairyfeet, and others who want things to just work and have given up putting linux on customer machines. How do I know that atheros wifi or ati driver will work when they click upgrade? My guess is this is the issue Intel has and is paying money in constant r&d and QA.
Re:That is why Linux wont win the desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
Since this policy is never likely to change, I can't see why anyone is surprised Linux has still never made it on the desktop.
Who exactly is surprised by this? Certainly not those who created the policy. The purpose of the policy was not to make Linux popular on the desktop, or anywhere else for that matter. The creators of the policy do not profit from Linux, so its popularity isn't really a big concern.
Re:Dumb Management (Score:5, Insightful)
Canonical decided to write their own Mir display server instead of adopting the existing Wayland. They stated their reasons for doing so, but I'm not convinced they really had to start their own project instead of modifying Wayland.
It seems only fair to me that if Canonical wants to do their own thing, they'll have to put in the effort to maintain it. Because that is what this is about: Intel management decided that they're not going to pay their engineers to maintain code that benefits only Canonical.
Re:That is why Linux wont win the desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry but the patent trolls who sue everybody will make you sign a NDA making your work closed source if you make hardware. So the days of having it in the kernel are over.
You realize you're commenting on a story about Intel, right? You know, the company that has Linux kernel developers writing open source drivers for their chipsets.
Re:Monopolist acts anticompetetively, film at 11 (Score:5, Insightful)
More like disinterested third party sees which way the winds are blowing and decides to pull resources away from supporting what is going to be an also-ran. Intel has been a very good citizen where it comes to provided chipset and video driver support to the Linux community. They are still making drivers for X.org ( you know the display server people actually use ) and likely will develop drivers for Wayland.
Why you or anyone else ( who does not run Ubuntu ) would want them dividing their efforts a third way writing software that will only be useful to a tiny segment escapes me. Normally I am not anti-choice but the best outcome here is for MIR to go down in flames.
The one factor that has made desktop UNIX/Linux a reality is the near universality of X11. Despite all the toolkit and desktop environment / window manager fights X11 was something software devs could depend on being there. As far as end users some integration issues aside they could run multiple toolkits and other high level stuff when needed. It would be really hard though for users to efficiently run multiple display servers. The display server is pretty much a core platform component now. I honestly think MIR is a Cononical attempt to create a walled garden for their platform. It isn't about better software for them but control.
I am glad Intel is abandoning the platform; hopeful Cononical's garden will simple become a ghetto.
Re:Layering? (Score:5, Insightful)
Then Ubuntu comes along and goes "NOOOO", and decides to do it differently.
yep, this is the way of Linux. You throw many different things at a wall and see which one sticks best. Then you standardise on that thing.
Too many people are just about bitching that one thing is better than another thing without any comprehension that this is the way FOSS systems evolve. I imagine (or would hope) that Wayland and XMir will stand on their own and one will become a dominant player over the other. Politics aside this is the way it should be. Unfortunately, once the politics and the 'my thing is better than yours' attitude gets involved, it makes dropping the poor version for the better one difficult - people try to maintain the poorer one regardless.
You see this in Openoffice v LibreOffice. Surely by now one of these would have their best bits of code migrated to the other so development and evangelism could focus efforts on just one product, but instead we still have the bitching about which one is better. (though maybe its just too soon for this example)
Re:Layering? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bloat? Client/server relationship? (Score:2, Insightful)
Want to fix it? Use a better brand of video card.
There's no great mystery about any of this stuff. If you are still suffering then you are suffering because you choose to sabotage yourself.
Re:That is why Linux wont win the desktop (Score:4, Insightful)
Microkernels and exokernels are what acemics say are supperior and the wave of the future.
Academics have been saying that since it was MINIX vs Linux and reality won. This is also orthogonal to API/ABI, you can have userspace drivers without a stable API/ABI and you can have a stable API/ABI with in-kernel drivers.
Re:That is why Linux wont win the desktop (Score:4, Insightful)