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GNOME 3.10 Is Now Properly Supported On Wayland 128

Posted by timothy
from the not-just-a-lawn-ornament dept.
An anonymous reader writes "One week ahead of the GNOME 3.10 release, all of the basic Wayland support for GNOME has been merged. With today's GNOME Shell 3.9.92 release the Wayland branch was merged and there was also an updated Mutter Wayland release, besides earlier GNOME 3.9.x packages fostering the Wayland support. Fedora 20 is expected to ship with GNOME on Wayland as a technology preview. Additional details about the current GNOME Wayland support are available from the GNOME Wiki."
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GNOME 3.10 Is Now Properly Supported On Wayland

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @01:01PM (#44874585)

    (and didn't want to google it):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29
    http://wayland.freedesktop.org/

    Wayland
    Wayland is intended as a simpler replacement for X, easier to develop and maintain.

    • A first post by an AC that's actually useful. That's a FIRST.

      • by h4rr4r (612664)

        If you don't know what Wayland is odds are you don't care about this article.

        • I care about this article as long as xorg.conf goes away sometimes soon.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by h4rr4r (612664)

            Why?
            At least it lets you pick any random modes, try dealing with windows and a monitor that does not support EDID.

            • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by Anonymous Coward

              What about it? You can define and set custom modes in the absense of EDID. It's trivially easy especially using Catalyst, NVIDIA Control Panel or Intel's drivers.

              • by h4rr4r (612664)

                Actually the old catalyst drivers did not support it. All you could have were standard resolutions it felt like providing.

                • by Anonymous Coward

                  Great. How is that at all relevant to anything current?

                  • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

                    by Anonymous Coward

                    But... but... his 1980s vintage monitor and 1200/75 baud modem will mean that Wayland is useless for him.

                    How very DARE you.

              • Wayland wont be supported by Intel, Nvidia, AMD so you are out of luck with the older monitors

            • by hairyfeet (841228)
              Uhhhh...you make your own INF for the monitor with something like Powerstrip and be done with it? My KVM switch doesn't support EDID, it took less than 10 minutes to whip off an INF with the correct resolution and push it to my systems, easy peasy and has worked perfectly ever since.
            • by smash (1351)
              Yeah because I have a heap of screens I still use from 1994.
          • I care about this article as long as xorg.conf goes away sometimes soon.

            Mandatory xorg.conf went away a few years ago. You can still tweak parameters with one if you want to. Are you suggesting removing the ability to tweak it?

        • by Aguazul2 (2591049)

          If you don't know what Wayland is odds are you don't care about this article.

          He must be posting for those people who reckon a thing isn't worth investigating until they've heard a hundred mentions to it. Wayland is just now entering these people's consciousness.

        • You may be happy with the exact amount of knowledge you've managed to acquire thus far, but some people actually like finding out about new things. It's why we have "news."
    • by goruka (1721094)
      Why are you stating the obvious? Everyone knows that Wayland is a promising new technology that will revolutionize desktop graphics on Linux.
      On the other hand.. I forgot what Gnome is, have a link url for that?
  • Yes! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @01:20PM (#44874883)

    Now I can complain about the user interface on a whole new display technology!

  • I wonder if there are new features removed from GTK3, or forced on users, or if GTK3 themes break again. This affects non Gnome 3 users sometimes (e.g. File/Open puts you into "Recently Used", wasting a bit of your time and clicks, in a app that uses GTK3.)

    • This affects non Gnome 3 users sometimes (e.g. File/Open puts you into "Recently Used", wasting a bit of your time and clicks, in a app that uses GTK3.)

      Ooohh, is that what it is. Is there a workaround?

      • by AliasMarlowe (1042386) on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @02:00PM (#44875441) Journal

        This affects non Gnome 3 users sometimes (e.g. File/Open puts you into "Recently Used", wasting a bit of your time and clicks, in a app that uses GTK3.)

        Ooohh, is that what it is. Is there a workaround?

        Here's one that keeps the "Recently Used" category empty. Unfortunately, it does not prevent GTK3 applications from defaulting to that absurd category in a File/Open operation. As a logged-in user, run:

        rm ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel
        mkdir -p ~/.config/gtk-3.0
        echo -e "[Settings]\ngtk-recent-files-max-age=0\ngtk-recent-files-limit=0" > ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
        rm ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel


        The second rm will probably cause an error message, unless some application is busily updating the "Recently Used" category while you run these commands.

        • Thank you. It's the defaulting that's the real pain for me; I guess if I cannot fix that it's better to have a chance of the item being in there than not.

          I don't know who Gnome thinks they're helping - it's a pain for me and royally confusing for my wife, who is a basic computer user.

        • The "Recently Used" items has always been empty since I first saw it, everywhere. What I'd like to know is how to make it go away forever!

    • Have they fixed the lack of options for decent previews? Selecting a picture or video by a 20px preview just doesn't cut it anymore.
    • by MrEricSir (398214)

      There's a bunch of really basic deprecations, including GtkStock (every app will now have to have its own translations of "Cancel" and "OK" for some reason) and GtkActionGroup.

      Lots of new code will have to be written to port apps to Gtk 3.10, which makes one wonder if it's worth the upgrade. Normally I update my toolkits because I want new features, not new obligations.

  • GNOME 3 is now at 3.10? Who'd have thunk it?

    But how ready is Wayland itself for mainstream release? I know they've gotten as far as version 1, but are any of the distros - Fedora, Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch, et al - near having Wayland ready so that one can install something like GNOME or KDE w/o installing X11, but installing Wayland?

    • by Anonymous Coward
      It's the third sentence in the summary: "Fedora 20 is expected to ship with GNOME on Wayland as a technology preview".
  • by Kernel Corndog (155153) on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @01:25PM (#44874955)

    No doubt, I am cheering the open source drivers to continue their great progress but I can't understand why Nvidia and AMD don't enable EGL extensions on their desktop drivers (especially AMD since I'm a shareholder because they started supporting open source). With Mir and Wayland needing the extensions, Gabe Newell saying Linux is the future of gaming, and the future of Linux windowing being Mir or Wayland, I'm not going to get super excited until one of the Big Two GPU vendors start supporting it.

    And I'm hoping it's you, AMD, that will be the first to claim that crown on Linux. Please let it be in the forthcoming hardware Newell mentioned.

  • by DarkOx (621550) on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @01:26PM (#44874963) Journal

    Really disappointing choice of version numbers.

  • Can someone explain this with a car analogy?
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      X11 is like a VW Bug, it's simple to those who understand it but if you're not a mechanic it's just a bunch of greasy parts. Wayland is like a new Smart Car, it's intended to be simpler even but built on new technology and the inner workings are all hidden from the average user. GNOME is the driver and it's been comfortable with its Bug for a long time but is now getting in to the Smart Car but doesn't know how to effectively drive it yet because it has a different transmission. How's that?
    • You can now install an electric engine in a Honda Civic.
    • by ssam (2723487)

      When Xcar was made everyone lived in a forest. The Xcar need to have its own built in machete to get anywhere, plus a built in oil well and refinery to make fuel and 14 different types of wheels. Now we all live in high-rise apartments, so we put the widgets the boot (er, thats 'trunk' for americans) and cram the car with all its blades, drills and distillation towers into the lift (elevator) to get to the display.

      Wayland car is roller-skates and a shoulder bag, just enough to skate down the hall to the lif

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Imagine the community has been driving a good old Volkswagen van from the 70's, is reliable but a little quirky and is starting to show its age. Many people don't see a good reason to replace it, it has been doing what is supposed to do, rarely fails and everybody uses it in a way or another. Some other people don't like all the things that are redundant (for example there is a dashboard hidden behind more modern plywood dashboards), some recent its step learning curve compared to more modern cars (its a st

  • Still no stable binary release of GTK+3 for Win32. Any word on when that's happening?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      http://www.tarnyko.net/dl/

      I use this to develop GTK+3 applications with MinGW. Everything works fine.

  • by Minwee (522556) <dcr@neverwhen.org> on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @01:42PM (#44875175) Homepage
    More importantly, when will we see GNOME 2 support?
  • by tlambert (566799) on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @01:49PM (#44875271)

    But in fact it's NOT properly supported.

    If you read the wiki that the article poster linked to, there are all sorts of caveats and missing functionality. "Properly Supported" means functional parity, and from where it sits right now, there is not functional parity.

  • by tuppe666 (904118) on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @02:02PM (#44875457)

    Don't care about Wayland. I gave Intel my money, and in return they have 30 Developers, that have given me an astonishing return on my hardware. Hell they can still use X as far as I'm concerned.

    I do care about the Gnome Shell and how to kill it with fire...I currently use Cinnamon, but do not want to continue to patch my Desktop , and I do care if Gnome is going to (continue) to cripple my Desktop experience. these two articles http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-upcoming-features/ [worldofgnome.org] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/gnome-core-app-project-make-me-excited-for-desktop-linux [omgubuntu.co.uk] show off the new core applications Maps, Music, Photos, Software & Calendar...ans they look great, only it looks like oversized icons/Buttons; "not over-burdened with features"; "built around the premise of ‘finding and reminding’ you of your files". Yeah I am nervous too.

    How about they expand on evince(a fantastic program on any platform) by giving it epub compatibility. Rhythmbox has just been updated codename "I Eat Tapes" http://worldofgnome.org/rhythmbox-3-0-is-eating-the-tapes/ [worldofgnome.org] which is looking great after being much neglected for Banshee(Which was great) in the Mono push to satisfy some self serving... anyway great; modern looking; desktop app, not even mentioned. Hopefully I can finally get rid of the awesome Tomboy notes with Notes(Bijiben) ready so I can ditch Mono altogether (Cue that self serving prick to spout crap to retain reverence soon).

    The bottom line is I don't want my Desktop experience Tabletified. There is a great hybrid touch/keyboard+mouse interface in here somewhere, and some great ideas, but my main computer is not about find...its about organising files not search; Sensible user of a 24" screen and accurate pointing devices (and I include pen too); Feature rich presented sensibly with good defaults...only removing unnecessary "options". There is something great here, but Gnome is taking too long at fitting the pieces together.

    • by sayfawa (1099071)
      I agree with everything you say except the part where you have to care what Gnome is doing. XFCE has helped me not care about Gnome for about 3 years now. It's not as feature rich or polished as the last versions of Gnome 2, but it's getting there.
    • Not to be the KDE fanboy here, but Okular has been able to do that since . . . I dunno, whenever many years ago I first tried clicking on an EPUB.

      At this point it almost seems like classic GNOME fans might be better off using KDE and themeing/fiddling with it to make it look and behave how they want. And KDE doesn't even make you write Javascript extentions to do any of that, it's all in the actual UI to customize it . . .
      • I really do think the KDE devs are going about it the right way, leveraging the Model-View paradigm to make it so most of the code can remain the same but the UI/UX can be changed for different circumstances. So if you do install on a tablet, you can have a full-screen launcher and nice finger-friendly icons and such, running what are underneath completely compatible programs. But if you run a desktop, you have the full and unfiltered desktop experience. You don't really have to sacrifice one for the other

      • ...fun, I've been using Okular for pdfs for years now, but I didn't know it could do epub as well...shame on me!
        I agree though.

  • Thank you Ubuntu! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Drunkulus (920976) on Tuesday September 17, 2013 @02:36PM (#44875859)
    This is a great leap forward for desktop Linux and we must remember the open source luminaries that have made this advance possible, starting with Mr. Mark Shuttleworth. Mark committed to making significant contributions to Wayland back in 2010, and generously offered to support KDE and Gnome in the transition. Wait, what? They never contributed a single line of code? They were secretly working on another project and are now in a pissing match with Intel??
  • My favourite bit of the linked article...

    The upper right area of Gnome Shellâ(TM)s top panel contained four separate items with their corresponding menus used for configuring sound, internet connections, power and user settings. This was bloated, fragmented and space consuming especially in the case of using extensions that need space on the right.

    A new status menu that unifies all the above individual settings in one was imperative and we got it on 3.10!

    ...directly above a screenshot showing the top

    • My favourite bit of the linked article...

      The upper right area of Gnome Shellâ(TM)s top panel contained four separate items with their corresponding menus used for configuring sound, internet connections, power and user settings. This was bloated, fragmented and space consuming especially in the case of using extensions that need space on the right.

      A new status menu that unifies all the above individual settings in one was imperative and we got it on 3.10!

      ...directly above a screenshot showing the top panel in question - which is 80% empty space.

      Seems you can justify anything in UI design if you include the magic words "bloated, fragmented and space consuming" in your rationale.

      I can't find any of that in any of the linked articles

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