Car Dealers Complain To DMV About Tesla's Website 364
cartechboy writes "State and national car dealer groups have been battling Tesla Motors for years, trying to stop them from selling its electric cars directly to buyers. Most of the time, the dealers work behind the scenes to change state laws and and force Tesla to conduct its sales through 'independently-owned third parties' which are... well, car dealers. But in California, Tesla's operations are legal, so that tactic won't work. So dealers there are taking an interesting new tack — complaining to the DMV about Tesla's website."
Sour Grapes (Score:5, Insightful)
The dealers have a few good points, but EVERYONE knows this is just sour grapes because the dealerships can't fleece potential buyers out of some more money off the top.
Fucking scum.
how amusing (Score:5, Insightful)
Telsa's claims might be misleading, but if you want a pathological lying sack of shit, look no further than your local car dealer.
But at least their EPA estimates are right. (Score:3, Insightful)
After 30 years of automakers blatantly providing theoretical and incredibly optimistic EPA estimates for gas mileage, you'd think that dealers would be willing to give a little on another car maker fudging some other numbers on their site.
Re:how amusing (Score:5, Insightful)
Tesla's claims ARE misleading.
They need to be clear about your out-of-pocket costs - your actual payment to Tesla's finance company.
ALSO, dealerships exist only to fuck customers out of useless middleman money by skimming off the top and providing overpriced service.
let's all shed a tear for car dealers (Score:5, Insightful)
there's a reason why they call it disruptive technology, scumbags
we don't need you
Free Enterprise! (Score:5, Insightful)
Ain't free enterprise great in America? You can do anything, as long as you cut the vested interests in for a piece of the action. Thankfully though we're not a bunch of economically ignorant Neanderthals that would do something stupid like put a nickel tariff on a pair of socks. That would be interfering in commerce!
Re:how amusing (Score:5, Insightful)
Tesla's claims ARE misleading.
They need to be clear about your out-of-pocket costs - your actual payment to Tesla's finance company.
ALSO, dealerships exist only to fuck customers out of useless middleman money by skimming off the top and providing overpriced service.
If you actually buy the car, the payment is quite clear on the paperwork... But really, If someone buying a $70,000 car can't float the $7500 tax refund until next year when he gets it back from taxes, then he shouldn't be buying a $70,000 car.
Re:how amusing (Score:5, Insightful)
You know it's the future... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ford Vs Musk (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sour Grapes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:how amusing (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:no problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Free Enterprise! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but such a complex historical event can not be simplified to a single 'cause'. Then again, your entire argument reeks of simplification. A good tax strategy requires careful balancing of multiple types since they ALL have consequences. Tarrifs benefit some segments and hurt others, same with personal income, sales, property, license, and pretty much any other tax type. All of them try to take a cut of economic movement, but if you cut too deeply into one type or another it just moves elsewhere or breaks down.
Dear US car dealerships... (Score:5, Insightful)
But now? Congratulations, the internet has made you nothing more than the place I go to test drive your products before I let the nearest 50 of you bid against each other for my next buy (and don't think I won't buy from the other side of the country if someone there has a good enough sale going on to cover the cost of shipping the damned thing to me).
You had a good run. Congratulations. Now cash out before you run out of cash. Simple as that.
Please, go down gracefully. Don't let this turn into yet another "when you can't compete, legislate" disaster. That just never goes well for the "legacy" side of the battle.
Re:no problem (Score:4, Insightful)
The manufacturers generally don’t want the hassle of owning and managing a nation-wide network of storefronts. As with any large retail franchise, having independent dealers provides them with a buffer of sorts: If the manufacturer’s much-hyped new model turns out to be a lemon, it’s the dealers who are stuck with the inventory. If a dealership goes out of business for whatever reason, it’s no skin off the company’s teeth.
Dealerships exist for the convenience of the manufacturers, not the customers.
Re:But at least their EPA estimates are right. (Score:4, Insightful)
Dealerships aren't entirely parasitic. That is an overstatement of reality. There is a benefit to having a local dealership to go to when things go wrong as they always do. Murphy makes sure of that.
I really don't see the route to complaining to the DMV is going to do dealerships much good as the effort only serves to widen awareness of the economic issues involved and these are trending toward Tesla's favor. If dealers are really concerned about Tesla, they would do better to insist that the car manufacturers they buy from have a better electric car than does Tesla. Once battery swap stations become more widely available for Tesla's new 400 mile per charge battery, they better have some other alternatives or they are going to quickly start to loose business quickly. Dealerships that branch out to provide battery swaps may well be those that survive, because the 2-4000 dollars per year you can save if you don't have to buy gas is a big incentive over the life of a car becomes increasingly attractive to those with slimmer wallets, especially if lower overall maintenance costs go with it.
Re:Missing Point (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You're welcome... (Score:5, Insightful)
If they were doing everything right then why the need for the tax credit?
It's a mere pittance compared to the decades-old infrastructure that a fossil-fuel powered car gets for "free" because we essentially subsidize the entire petroleum fuel supply chain at a federal level [1] to the tune of $10s of billions of dollars. Yes, that's for mega-corporations who are making record profits every quarter [2].
So 200k models qualify for the credit at $7500 a piece. That's a neat $1.5M for each car manufacturer - how does that compare to the $Billions in yearly subsidies that the petro infrastructure gets that's passed on to each gas/diesel guzzling car/truck on the road?
Quit whining about the tiny tax credit. Instead start complaining about how the big three auto manufacturers and Big oil are bending us over a barrel.
[1] http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/ [priceofoil.org]
[2] http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5503955&page=1 [go.com]
Re:Missing Point (Score:5, Insightful)
While true if you factor in the cost of the wear on the battery per km driven then cost of an electric car's fuel is actually far higher than a petrol car.
Interesting point - but wouldn't that mean that petrol car dealers should be adding the costs of, "carburetor wear and tear; carburetor cleaning; air filter replacement; gas tank wear and tear; etc." to their fuel costs; all those costs that electric cars don't incur.
Re:Sour Grapes (Score:4, Insightful)
As a Texan I am absolutely disguisted by this. So having a conservative state legislature is bad for a lot of reasons. However, supposedly one of the benefits is keeping the government out of things it has no business in. So what the living fuck happened.
Re:Sour Grapes (Score:5, Insightful)
As a Texan I am absolutely disguisted by this. So having a conservative state legislature is bad for a lot of reasons. However, supposedly one of the benefits is keeping the government out of things it has no business in. So what the living fuck happened.
To be a cynic:
The voters got exactly what they wanted: Private enterprises buying their own law with no government in sight to stop them. That's what privilege means in its pure form: Private Law.
After all, remember that a democracy needs at least three pillars to survive: A strong executive (government), a strong legislative (parliament) and a strong judicative (courts).
Weaken one of them, and you open up the chance for people to abuse the disproportional strength of the other two (or even one).
Strong executive/legislative with a weak judicative leads to a police state, where the due-process of law is abandonded.
Strong legislative/judicative with a weak executive leads to corporatism with a nice load of loophole abuse and unfair privileges -- which is what you see above.
Strong executive/judicative with a weak legislative leads to a static, reactionary state, where a small elite forms a wall against any change.
Do note that countries that lose yet another pillar are usually civil-war-torn dysfunctional messes or dictatorships of the worst calibre.
So, why do you want a weak executive again? Or, if you interpret "small government" to include both legislative and executive, why are you so crazy to want that?
Re:You're welcome... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Missing Point (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't change the oil in your car? You've never had to replace a belt? Do you just let your car sit in a garage all the time?
Re:Missing Point (Score:4, Insightful)
Same here in Finland. My last two cars (VW, Audi) did not even require routine service until they hit 30,000 km (19k mi). With my daily commute that's about 2 years. In between, just top off fluids, if needed. The routine service is little more than a simple oil change, checking the brakes, tires, etc.
I completely support Tesla's idea of selling direct, even if I'm not an owner (yet). I hope that they someday find a solution for batteries in Nordic climes, so it's a viable car here as well. After all, we already use the grid to keep our cars warm and start-able in the winter.
I find it appalling that some states, including my own home state, are using legal means to try and block Tesla from entering the market. Whatever happened to the so-called free market in the US? This sounds decidedly less free market.