One Person Successfully Removed From US No-Fly List 286
An anonymous reader writes "In February, Judge William Alsup ruled in favor of Rahinah Ibrahim, who sued the U.S. government in 2006 after she was mistakenly added to the no-fly list and subsequently denied entry to the country. Now, the Department of Justice has finally decided it won't appeal the ruling, making Ibrahim the first person to challenge the list at trial and get herself removed. 'But Ibrahim's case, as just one of hundreds of thousands of individuals who have been placed on such lists, shows the system's opacity. First, the only surefire way to even determine if one is on such a list in the U.S. is to attempt to board a flight and be denied. Even after that happens, when a denied person inquires about his or her status, the likely response will be that the government "can neither confirm nor deny" the placement on such lists. The government's surrender in Ibrahim comes on the heels of a new report by the American Civil Liberties Union that shows just how insanely difficult it is to contest one's status on the government blacklists (PDF).'"
Hack it to add American names like "John Smith" (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not too sure how a no-fly list works since many people can have the same name.
If that's the case, what's stopping someone from legally changing their name to something more american/western-european and re-issuing their passport?
Re:Fun fact (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy is the patron saint of common sense. One would think that common sense would not need a patron saint, being, you know, common...
How is the no fly list legal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can someone explain how the government can impose penalties on a person without providing the evidence against them? Is the entire premise that you can't show standing because you can't know you're on the list? It seems we have a shitload of that going on right now, whereas we shouldn't have any.
Re:Hack it to add American names like "John Smith" (Score:5, Insightful)
No-fly lists simply shouldn't exist, regardless of whether or not they can work. The idea that you can be considered too dangerous (Without a trial!) to fly and yet not dangerous enough to arrest is absurd. As others have said, this is just used for oppression.
Re:Shocked and saddened (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell that to the poor sods in Gitmo still awaiting trial - or charges, for that matter.
Didn't our current Glorious Leader promise to close down that shame of a concentration camp years ago, incidentally?
Re:Fun fact (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How is the no fly list legal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can someone explain how the government can impose penalties on a person without providing the evidence against them?
No.
how is no fly not a first amendment violation? (Score:2, Insightful)
aren't all travel restrictions inherently an interference with the right to peaceably assemble?
of course since the new deal supreme court cases the constitution has been fundamentally meaningless so whatever carry on
Re:Hack it to add American names like "John Smith" (Score:5, Insightful)
"No papers."
"Then i will live in Montana...."
Re:Hack it to add American names like "John Smith" (Score:5, Insightful)
It is interesting to look at this in the perspective. The one that shows the reasons and arguments used by founding fathers of the republic to make something different than opaque, corrupt and inefficient regimes of old continent to create something different: where transparency, the rule of the law etc are basic principles. Now look at what happened: this funny secrete courts of which decisions you may not talk, the no-fly lists which you cannot question because you will never know you are on one. Add to this: enhanced interrogation techniques, extrajudicial killings, the whole nonsense of war on drugs, the violence and inefficiency of US judicial and penal systems as well as lies used to send troops all over the planet (Collin Power etc). I wonder if that was unavoidable (I think it was). Every being and republic too gets old and starts seeing ghosts generated by the old brain, accumulated fat causes the body to stop functioning properly, Just wondering. Right now even Germany is more transparent and has more efficient state than US does. I guess the only branches of US gov. that still work kind of well are military and 'security' industry. I wonder how does that feel to become what one tried to escape from?
Re:Shocked and saddened (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hack it to add American names like "John Smith" (Score:2, Insightful)
I generally agree, but it's relatively trivial to imagine cases where they can't arrest someone, despite having every intention of doing so should the opportunity present itself.
Then too bad. If they don't have enough evidence to arrest someone for committing crimes, they don't get to punish someone without trial. Freedom has risks, and ones I'm more than willing to take.
Re:Shocked and saddened (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hack it to add American names like "John Smith" (Score:4, Insightful)
There was one case of the no-fly list being used against US Sen Edward Kennedy [washingtonpost.com], proof that it is a tool that can be exploited for political retaliation and oppression.