In France, Most Comments on Gaza Conflict Yanked From Mainstream News Sites 512
An anonymous reader writes with
an unpleasant statistic from France, quoting David Corchia, who heads a service employed by large French news organizations to sift through and moderate comments made on their sites. Quoting YNet News:
Corchia says that as an online moderator, generally 25% to 40% of comments are banned. Moderators are assigned with the task of filtering comments in accordance with France's legal system, including those that are racist, anti-Semitic or discriminatory. Regarding the war between the Israelis and Hamas, however, Corchia notes that some 95% of online comments made by French users are removed. "There are three times as many comments than normal, all linked to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict," added Jeremie Mani, head of another moderation company Netino. "We see racist or anti-Semitic messages, very violent, that also take aim at politicians and the media, sometimes by giving journalists' contact details," he added. "This sickening content is peculiar to this conflict. The war in Syria does not trigger these kinds of comments."
maybe (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe, if you could say the word Israel... without being called an anti-semite....
This entire conflict is Evil... it doesn't matter, if one side is Jewish and the other side is Islam...
It has nothing to do with that...
Having said that... the Israeli apartheid state needs a wake up call... because they are doing what the south african's did before them.
And, yes I am going there... and what the Nazis did before that.
Re: Like China och USSR (Score:1, Insightful)
Unless, I'm mistaken, the article indicates that the news sites are choosing to remove the comments on their own (they have hired some company to do this)...they aren't being forced by the government. That would be the difference if I'm right...
Meta-problem (Score:2, Insightful)
The big issue is that one group of refugees from an attempted Genocide is creating another group of refugees from their attempted Genocide.
All else is lies.
Re:Meta-problem (Score:1, Insightful)
Israel is not attempting a genocide. Aparthide, sure, but you have to admit, everyone is out to get them. Over 100,000 Arabs have died at the hands of the Syrians. Americans killed similar ammounts of Arabs from the 1990's up to the early 2010's. But when a group of upstart Jews kills 100's of Palestanians in 2014, it's genocide? How can I take you seriously?
Re:Should Hate be left alone? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that the moment you don't blindly side with Israelis you are labeled as racist nazi sympathizer.
Re:maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
That mandate is false and debunked since two weeks already, it never existed.
Hint: genital mutilation is not an islamic thing but an africans natural religions/tribal thing.
I don't know many 'arabs' got killed in this YEAR in Syria, but I know the death toll in Palestine was over 1000 in the last two weeks, perhaps you can enlighten us how that will scale for the rest of the year?
Re:Like China och USSR (Score:1, Insightful)
Yea because Israel would never do anything like that:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-student-union-set-up-war-room-to-sell-gaza-massacre-on-facebook/5392888 [globalresearch.ca]
Or maybe you're not so good at math (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that in terms of mathematical relativity, the fighting in Gaza is not a terribly important ongoing conflict.
There are an *exponentially* larger number of ongoing casualties in Syria. Where is the outrage?
There are more ongoing casualties in Sudan, Pakistan and other non-reported conflicts as well. Where are the street protests?
Selective outrage is inherently indicative of a motivation *other* than humanitarian concern.
Great stats here: http://notquant.com/the-israel... [notquant.com]
We must care about civilian casualties. But we must not care more about some casualties over others.
Re:War that cannot be settled (Score:2, Insightful)
The USA can stop supporting israel and let the two groups fight it out on their own.
Re:This is not a religious problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
It *used* to be that the religious issues were just a distraction, but that is no longer the case. Islam is reverting to what it was originally: A fascist political movement aimed at world control, masquerading as a religion. It is utterly impossible to compromise with hard-line Muslims because their very religion rejects the idea of compromise with non-Muslims. Non-Muslims are to be killed or subjugated; that is prescribed directly in Islamic religious writings.
On the Jewish side, there has been a similar move to hard-line positions, though to a less dangerous degree than in Islam. The hard-line Jewish extremists want to take over the whole of "Eretz Yisrael." They are not interested in subjugating the entire world.
Re:Meta-problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Israel's not very efficient at committing genocide. Boko Haram in Nigeria has killed far more people. ISIS in Syria too. Etc.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a minor regional territorial conflict. But because of huge anti-Israel sentiment among UN members, combined with a healthy does of Islamic racism, this minor conflict that could have been settled years ago is kept festering because the Islamic bloc at the UN sees it as a useful tool to weaken Israel. It's pure cynical geopolitics fueled by Islamic fascism.
Re:maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
I would say the Russians were victimized a lot more than the Jews, and maybe even in a more cruel way like in the case of the starving of Leningrad. Israel is being fascist at the moment and I agree, it is awful to consider that Jewish people in Israel are today doing the same thing to others that they suffered in the not so distant past. Perhaps it is time to think about this whole hatred and land grabbing mentality again. Those Palestinian rockets are being launched for a reason.
Re:Meta-problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Or to clarify GP: Israel uses missiles to protect its civilians. Hamas uses civilians to protect its missiles.
Re:maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
My non-jewish family was victimized by fascism. But I don't run around yelling "I'm offended!" every time the subject is brought up. My family moved on 5 decades ago, and I still think it took the a bloody long time to do it.
Seriously, stop it. Just let it go and move on. You're doing nobody any good.
Re:Or maybe you're not so good at math (Score:0, Insightful)
The problem is that in terms of mathematical relativity, the fighting in Gaza is not a terribly important ongoing conflict.
The reason why we care more about Israel is that Israel is supposed to be a civilized Western country, so we identify with them and want to support them. Unfortunately it is very hard when they behave just like the other religious extremists in the Middle East, using their power to displace other people. This makes people almost as angry as they would be if their own leaders were doing it.
Scale and proportion. (Score:5, Insightful)
The war in Syria doesn't involve a nuclear state casually bulldozing civilian houses, complete with civilians inside, all because a handful of pesky terrorists keep lobbing ineffective bombs into empty fields.
Israel's problem really boils down to a matter of proportion. Yes, they have an unenviable situation to deal with; but they have chosen to respond in a way that makes them look like monsters (to the point that even many Jewish Israelis consider their government's behavior nothing short of reprehensible). When you cook ants with a magnifying glass, no one blames the ants, even if one or two do manage to sting you.
As for the FP's hypothetical French forum moderator - You count as part of the problem. When people can freely say things such as what I wrote above, they can contribute to the discussion, sometimes even vent a bit, and move on. When, however, fairly peaceful discussion vanishes under some bullshit pretense of racism - People then feel the need to escalate the impact of their few words making it through to other eyes.
Re:maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:maybe (Score:4, Insightful)
It is quite similar to what the Nazis wanted to do. Not the Holocaust, but Lebensraum - they wanted to remove the 'inferior' Slavs from the land they wanted to occupy. Just like what Israel is trying to do now to the Palestinians (with none of the German 'efficiency').
Re:Scale and proportion. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Or maybe you're not so good at math (Score:5, Insightful)
"Israel is supposed to be a civilized Western country, so..."
Dead. Wrong.
Israel is a civilised *Middle Eastern* country. It is where it is, surrounded by enemies who have sworn to exterminate every last Jew. It doesn't have the luxury of being thousands of miles from the actual conflict, and it can't afford to "try one more time" because any mistake could be fatal. The day that militant Islam starts launching rockets onto the territory of the continental United States -- and it is coming -- people like you will wake up and start baying for blood like so many "savages". How many people did America kill in response to the Twin Towers? How many billions of dollars did it spend on vengeance?
Re:Or maybe you're not so good at math (Score:5, Insightful)
You're about half right here.
The fact these comments are banned probably means they're anti-semitic. But the closest thing the French have to a major anti-Semitic party is the national Front, they never get more then 25%, and that high-point only was only after their leader denounced anti-Semitism. Which indicates the Anti-Semitic percentage in France is probably under 5%. They seem to talk a whole lot, but in my experience the more a political ideology talks about itself the less relevant it is to reality. So Anti-Semitism is a problem France has to deal with, but that's true in every western nation and a lot of the non-western ones.
What's extremely unusual is the total lack of pro-Semites. Nobody in France is taking the view that Israel is being totally reasonable in attacking Gaza. Nobody is even taking the view that Israel is a respectable nation who should be allowed to do what needs to be done. They may think Israel's policy of "mowing the lawn" is justified, but clearly they don't like it so much that they'll take 15 minutes and write an online comment saying that.
Israel's core problem is that, while the Israeli people seem to have abandoned the Oslo process as unworkable, and adopted a policy of constant low-level attacks mitigated by occasional brutal offensives into Arab-controlled territory, literally the entire rest of the world is still a fan of Oslo. Re-invading Gaza every few years reminds them that Israel and the Palestinians are not making progress, and it also makes Israel seem like the roadblock. If all you hear about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that two Israelis died, and then Israel started a campaign killing 900-odd Palestinians and a couple-dozen Israeli troops, you ain't gonna come away with the impression Israel isn't the bad guy.
Re:Or maybe you're not so good at math (Score:5, Insightful)
This.
Israel is in western countries (Europe and US) regarded as "one of us" - and we hold them to a higher standard than some dictator in small far-away country we don't have very tight relations to. Also, because of these relations, and because Israel is somewhat dependent on support from the west and many Israelis have tight connections to (family, business), we regard it as more likely that they would listen to protests in the rest of the west, than whoever is fighting in Sudan would listen.
Re:maybe (Score:4, Insightful)
Umm, have you paid attention to what the people in charge on the Palestinian side of this have done, and are doing? You know, things like killing people for being homosexual? Such that Arabs who have homosexual desires often seek, and receive, asylum in Israel. Or perhaps you have not noticed that their compatriots is Iraq have mandated female genital mutilation in at least one city which they control? Perhaps you have not noticed that the Syrian government has killed more Arabs this year than Israel has, by a wide margin?
You are lumping all muslims and arabs together and even if you were right to do so, itstillwould not justify the way that Israel is conducting themselves.
40 Israelis dead, almost exclusively soldiers.
1,000 Palestinians dead. About 80 percent of them civilian and about 20% of them children.
This is not war. This is not a justified use of appropriate force. This is shooting fish in the barrel and, quantity aside, is disgustingly like what the Germans did to the Jews in WW2.
Re:The proofs (Score:0, Insightful)
Some Muslim leaders did protest. Not many but there were some voices of sanity. Unfortunately they are greatly outnumbered. What these guys don't get is that threatening people makes them stop listening to you. All people hear are the threats.
No. That's an Anjem Choudhary-linked protest. He's basically the Fred Phelps of British Islam. They both lead (or did lead) groups of similar size that go around being as offensive as possible supposedly in the name of their religious beliefs. Would you agree that Westboro Baptist Church is representative of American Christianity and that Christian groups that oppose them are "greatly outnumbered"? Then why pay attention to Choudhary?
At this point Choudhary and some of the right wing commentariat have a symbiotic relationship - one will produce blood-curdling quotes on demand and the other will then use them as the base for an op-ed with "fifth-column" nonsense about how Muslims are taking over Europe.
Re:maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
There's also a huge difference between BEING victimized and SAYING you're victimized.
Here's how I see the situation:
During WW2, multiple nations and groups were savagely "victimized" (that's an understatement but we'll go with that as an euphemism): Jews, Gypsies, Poles, homosexuals, etc. It is clear that the most affected were the Jews.
WW2 ended, the deeds were documented, everybody eventually moved on. Everybody but Jews.
Not that I have a problem with that, not at all, people are free to remember the bad things that happened to them, and are free to do that until the end of time. What i have problem with is the fact that their cries became increasingly strident over time. We're currently facing positive discrimination, which is even more ridiculously emphasized that the one regarding black people.
Couple years ago, a lesser government person from my country, due to his severe lack of historical knowledge, said something about the Holocaust, namely he played it down. I don't remember exactly what he said, because I read the statement back then and said "that guy's dumb. So, honey, what do we have for breakfast?" That's exactly how much attention that retard got from me, because that was the attention he was worth. People say dumb things all the time, we don't really pay attention.
BUT! The Jewish association was outraged. How dared he? So they squirmed and pushed and lobbied until that guy was publicly reprimanded by the government and had to go visit the Holocaust Museum in the States, then come back and issue an apology. We, the whole people from my country, had to apologize through our Government for what some dumbass said, and he didn't even really mean it. The poor bastard was uninformed. But nooo, let's not let it go, hurrah, time to rub this in a whole nation's face! said the Jewish Association.
Last Christmas (or Easter? I don't remember. probably Easter) there were some traditional songs being broadcasted over some local county TV station. All nice and good until some song was played which said something about jews, I don't remember what because it was a traditional song (centuries old) and the verses were recited verbatim. It's a documented song, not something made up recently. Anyway, nobody realized it might be offensive to anyone until the very same Jewish association jumped 9 yards and declared that song OFENSIVE and squirmed and pushed and lobbied until the TV station manager was fired and again a public apology had to be issued.
So my advice to Jews and anyone else who acts like that: stop blowing things out of proportion! Your stridence pisses people off and people remember you for being what you don't want to be, rather than what you really are. And to me, you're normal, regular people, not to be hated, not to be looked down at, and to be honest I never ever asked anyone I met what their religion was, because I DO NOT CARE.
But when you act like damsels who faint when they hear the word "spider", you cover yourselves in ridicule. So please, my plea to you is: talk to your representatives ant tell them that not every word issued out of ignorance is a direct attack on your nation.
One more thing: I have a colleague whose last name is Bernstein. I never made the connection until last year when we had a conversation about recent international events and I kept talking about how fascinating is the tech behind the Iron Dome and the Merkava tank, at which point he casually mentioned "yeah i have family in Israel" and only then i realized he was Jewish.
My opinion on him didn't change a bit. It was just a fact, nothing to it.
But if he would have said "yeah we're the best and anyone who messes with us should be put down like a dog" then I would have said "dude you're crazy" and probably wouldn't have talked to him again.
Oh and his manager is German. Heh.
I loathe fanaticism, extremism, the sense of superiority some groups have, etc. And that's valid for ALL groups, regardless of skin color, religion, traditions, past history, etc. And I stop here because most people don't read this wall of text anyway.
Re:Scale and proportion. (Score:5, Insightful)
More like....lies repeated by those who are useful fools at best and racists at worst. The storyline put forth goes like so: this all started when Hamas kidnapped three teenagers and then killed them in June. Israel launched a search and rescue mission, and Hamas responded by firing rockets.
But it's all bullshit. The month before the teens were kidnapped, the IDF straight up murdered [theguardian.com] two Palestinian boys in the street. And the month before that Israel tried to provoke Hamas by murdering [reuters.com] one of its members the same night that Hamas and Fatah announced a unity agreement. Despite Israel's repeated violations of it's own cease fire agreement with Hamas, no rockets were fired.
But Bibi found the excuse he needed with the kidnappings of the three teenagers. Despite being pretty damned sure they were all dead - you can hear gunshots over one of the teens cell phones and the car was soon found full of blood and bullet casings - they spent weeks arresting Palestinians and bulldozing homes in Gaza for a kidnapping in the West Bank even after the Palestinian Authority was helping [voanews.com] search for the missing teens. And even Israeli outlets admit [timesofisrael.com] that rockets were only fired in response to IDF attacks:
Since then, a thousand Palestinians have died, many of them children, for which the population equivalent would be over 200,000 people getting killed in the U.S. On the Israeli side, almost all of the ~35 deaths have been soldiers, with only three civilians dying, and only one via rocket. Scale and proportion? Get some.
Re:Or maybe you're not so good at math (Score:5, Insightful)
I like Israel, it has a lot of good things going for it. However currently it is run by a bunch of fucking fascists who have timed yet another pogrom into Gaza to coincide with an election. That seems to run contrary to everything Israel is supposed to stand for.