Grand Ayatollah Says High Speed Internet Is "Against Moral Standards" 542
An anonymous reader writes A Grand Ayatollah in Iran has determined that access to high-speed and 3G Internet is "against Sharia" and "against moral standards." However, Iran's President, Hassan Rouhani, plans to renew licenses and expand the country’s 3G cellular phone network. A radical MP associated with the conservative Resistance Front, warned: “If the minister continues to go ahead with increasing bandwidth and Internet speed, then we will push for his impeachment and removal from the cabinet.” “We will vigorously prevent all attempts by the [communication] minister to expand 3G technology, and if our warnings are not heeded, then the necessary course of action will be taken,” he added.
If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
...then there's got to be something to it.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Informative)
Religion isn't always right... they don't teach facts, they teach opinions.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Stupid opinions based on violent fairy tale books, at that.
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A critical difference is that the geek doesn't (usually) attempt to make other people live their lives according to the same sacred texts.
Or behead people because Captain Kirk wants him to.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
HERETIC!
*Chops of "The New Guy's" head*
Respect my peaceful religion! OR ELSE!
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Oh no! It's a holy war against the internet!
I wonder how well that will work out. Will the internet fight back?
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Interesting)
About as well as it did the last time..
You see, letters in the hebrew language are also numbers. There is no W so V is used in it's place or in other words, V and W are interchangeable. It so happens that V is also 6 so when you type www, you are typing 666. That's right, every time to go on the World Wide Web, you are paying homage to the beast.
That was the early rallying cry to why the internet was evil and should be removed. Of course some people who actually knew better checked up on those facts and it turns out a little different. [av1611.org]
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Interesting)
About as well as it did the last time..
You see, letters in the hebrew language are also numbers. There is no W so V is used in it's place or in other words, V and W are interchangeable. It so happens that V is also 6 so when you type www, you are typing 666. That's right, every time to go on the World Wide Web, you are paying homage to the beast.
That was the early rallying cry to why the internet was evil and should be removed. Of course some people who actually knew better checked up on those facts and it turns out a little different. [av1611.org]
Except that 666 isn't the number of the beast, it's actually 616. Google it, number of sources other then the one I put down.
http://theologica.ning.com/pro... [ning.com]
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
When has "fact" had anything to do with religious outrage?
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
When has "fact" had anything to do with religious outrage?
Religious outrage, racist outrage, nationalist outrage. They are all equally stupid. I have had a long series of strange discussions with people of all these denominations about the building of a Mosque in my town. The argumentation goes that: "Do you know how many Churches there are in Saudi Arabia? Have you seen what they are doing to Christians in Iraq!?! We must ban mosques immediately to prevent this from happening here before the Moslems rise up and impose Sharia law on all of us!!!". Really? Says I, for one thing our moslems are a small and moderate minority; how are they supposed to impose Sharia law on us (Answer: Uhhhhhhhhmmmmm.... Uhhhh.... I just fear that they just will!). Secondly I find it interesting that you are implying that one can use the stupidity and cruelty of people in other countries to justify doing stupid and cruel things to innocent people in your own country? In that case did you notice what the Serbs did to Moslems in Bosnia? Did you notice what the white patriotic christian knights of the Ku Klux Klan did to African Americans, Latinos and other minorities in the USA? We must ban Christianity immediately!!! Remarkably enough they considered equating all moslems with ISIS and banning Islam to be a reasonable and natural thing to do (even though the local moslem community is just about the most peaceful and law abiding group of people in our country) but they went absolutely apeshit when I applied their own logic to Christianity. It got even funnier when I pointed out that both the Serbs and the Ku Klux Klan are white and perhaps we should ban white people since most of the people involved in this discussion including my self were white. I just find it endlessly fascinating how the minds of these people work. They keep citing the Constitution when it supports their point of view but then they want to ban Moslems from practicing their religion, ban immigration of non-whites or put gay people in jail for offending christian fanatics everywhere by existing the Constitution can apparently be ignored.
Re: If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:3)
One might even suspect that the media pushes (or is pushed) to put Christianity in the best light and any other religion in a poor light because most of the country's political donors are Christian. It strengthens your base.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Interesting)
In general, there are 4 stages to Islamic conquest.
1) When they are a tiny minority they only want to live, and worship, in peace.
2) Once they are a bigger minority, they start demanding special laws to respect their religion and culture. This is happening in many European nations right now. These special laws may directly oppose fundamental rights in western countries.
3) Once they are a sizable minority: they drop the mask, and the gloves come off. Time to violently overthrow the existing religion and culture. This has been going on throughout Islamic history. This is going on in Thailand right now.
4) Once Muslims are in charge, it is no different than any other mid-east nation.
Even getting to stage 2 is too much for many Americans. Lots of Americans do not want to give up stuff like freedom of speech, or freedom of press, freedom of religion.
You just described the rise of Christianity in the Roman empire.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why don't we ask the atheist communists that imprisoned, tortured, and murdered people for going to church?
You mean like the righteous Christians who have done the same thing to tens of thousands for going to the wrong church? Try not to lead with your chin like that. It takes all the sport out of it.
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And WWW is not 666 either.
You might as well be saying the blue moon isn't blue for what it is worth. I mean the entire premise of the post was about misconceptions as the basis for a war against the internet.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Except no...a little Googling shows that first mention of the number is in a widely distributed book from 2nd century Christian author Irenaeus, who affirms that the number is 666, and mentions some texts with the wrong number. The only evidence for 616 is an old papyrus from the 3rd century. It may be the oldest known copy of the book of Revelations, but it wasn't the original copy, the text was written 150 years earlier. Furthermore, papyrus was valuable and was often re-used, so it may not even be the oldest known version of Revelations.
In order to prove that the original number was 616, one would have to find either the original version of the text, or a large number of texts (from various locales) which wrote 616, or perhaps have a well-regarded and well-preserved early Christian author like Irenaeus or Augustine say that the actual number was 616.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Funny)
I dialed this number, but the beast put me on hold listening to muzak.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
"isn't always right"
More like "is almost always wrong with few exceptions."
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It has nothing to do with religion, they just want to keep the peoples in the dark age, so they can rule them.
Re: If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Control is the point of religion. In Christianity the first book gives a lessen of do as you're told.
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This is unlikely to have much to do with either, and more with Ayatollah wishing to stay "Grand": a gatekeeper of Heaven who dictates to ignorant masses in the name of God. That doesn't really work if the masses aren't ignorant, and even more so if they get used to debating.
In other words, power corrupts. It should really be regarded like super-heroin: no matter your initial purposes for getting it, you will be addicted and unwillin
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
they don't teach facts, they teach opinions.
They don't teach facts at law schools either, they teach legal opinions.
They try to teach you how to reason & argue & back up your opinion with facts. Which is a little different then saying "on page 392 of the holy book God himself said X, that's it, end of story".
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You mean trials follow rules? Wow, sounds like horrible oppression to me.
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Around 1992-3, the Internet was operating at kB/s. It was fast enough for the Usenet and exchange of texts. There was very little junk, only one virus of note, and people were nice and out of the way to help. It encouraged reading, learning, communicating with real people and, in general, growing. Even slashdot, when it appeared, was interesting. The only thing that would break your concentration were talk (which you could turn off in your .bash_rc) and
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Funny)
fake illegal downloads
I'll have you know all my illegal downloads are real and the NSA will back me up on this.
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I'll have you know all my illegal downloads are real and the NSA will back me up on this
It's true, it's how we get all our software. And viruses.
But when it comes to Jennifer Lawrence, we choose to go right to the source('s phone). Your stuff is totally boring.
-The NSA
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-- PETCOM (People for the Ethical Treatment of COmputer Malware - All organisations need a crappy acronym name!)
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
So where is it (Score:4, Interesting)
I am of the same opinion, and I can provide evidence. ...Fast forward to 2013. The Internet is operating at Gb/s speeds in the civilized countries and at Mb/s everywhere else. Most of the content in porn, spam, fake illegal downloads, various scams and viruses.
So where is the "evidence" you claim to have? Your "evidence" seems to have originated from your gut. There is a lot less porn on the internet than you think [bbc.com]
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Funny)
Wait, you're saying nerds used to have lives, it's just high speed internet that killed it? That alt.sex.pictures.oddly.specific.weirdo.porn was a relatively recent invention?
I'll have you know that TRUE nerds used to have to jerk it to 320x200x256 palletized images. Nipples would be fucking CYAN half the time, but it was that or play wing commander. SuperVGA made the situation oh so much better, we could get 640x480x16bit in 200-300kB files that would take 2 hours to download, but hey, pink nipples! Assuming some family member didn't pick up the phone right before that line was downloaded and ready to rasterize. The cure for THAT were progressive jpeg's, we could jerk it staring at what either was snatch, or a golden retriever, the connection would probably drop before we could find out.
No the only thing that has changed is the quality of porn and the number of viewers.
Or so I'm told, I think I read about all this in a book.
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Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
The pope essentially said the same thing recently when he said that young people spend too much time on the Internet.
Religious leaders know that the survival of religion is being threatened by knowledge sharing on the internet, so it shouldn't be any surprise that they would speak out against it.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The internet is especially threatening to the Religion of Peace, as it exposes them for who they really are.
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them
Nice generalisation, there.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It might be a generalization if it wasn't true. Been paying attention to the world lately, or did you miss the "religion of peace" committing genocide in Iraq.
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Right. And what about the ones with the same religion fighting against the IS? How about the majority of the people around the world with the same religion that say IS doesn't represent them nor their religion? Etc...
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
The ones fighting are a tiny percentage of muslims though.
Actively fighting? Probably. That's usual in war. Supporting the fight against the goons? A vast percentage. Like Joe Average, Ahmed Average just wants a quiet life, and only gets into heated disputes about the merits of the local football teams. And narrow-minded Koran thumpers are just as bad for such a quiet life as narrow-minded Bible thumpers.
The fact is a percentage of muslim inman are indirectly supporting the IS through sharing similar beliefs about sharia law.
Funny how you left out `tiny' before `percentage' here. You don't really belief that this percentage is large, do you?
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The fact is the Grand Ayatollah is Shia muslim and not Sunni. Sure he wants Sharia law, but not the IS Sharia law since they're Sunni. So if anything he would be supporting the fight against IS.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Informative)
The pope essentially said the same thing recently when he said that young people spend too much time on the Internet.
Did he? It looks like you don't quite have that right.
Pope Francis says the Internet is a 'gift from God' [latimes.com]
Pope Francis: Internet is a blessing [nypost.com]
The Pope's view is a bit more insightful and nuanced than you state.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:5, Funny)
Pope Francis says the Internet is a 'gift from God'
That guy will take credit for anything.
Re:If the Grand Ayatollah's against it.... (Score:4, Funny)
If they are outside playing and not inside surfing the internet, they are harder for the priests to catch.
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The pope essentially said the same thing recently when he said that young people spend too much time on the Internet.
Religious leaders know that the survival of religion is being threatened by knowledge sharing on the internet, so it shouldn't be any surprise that they would speak out against it.
Not that I feel any need to defend His Holiness, but there's a bit of a difference, don't you think, between calling the Internet "immoral" and observing that young people might have better things to do with some of their time?
Anything that wrests away control (Score:5, Insightful)
You already know they don't like this because it takes away their control over a population.
Of course they count it against their religion of control and abuse.
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Re:Anything that wrests away control (Score:5, Insightful)
The key bit (Score:5, Informative)
The key bit FTA is here:
“All third generation [3G] and high-speed internet services, prior to realization of the required conditions for the National Information Network [Iran’s government-controlled and censored Internet which is under development], is against Sharia [and] against moral and human standards.”
In short the position is that if you have freedom you will abuse it. That's overall pretty similar to the thinking of al Qaida and ISIS. Strike up the banjos and play "Dueling Theocracy!" Oops, sorry, no music allowed. Or kite flying.
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Those who are wrong hate communication because it allows the good-doers to take over.
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When you consider that the US sided with Saddam Hussein to contain Iran, you begin to realize that such things are possible.
Re:The key bit (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess there's always a Greater Satan.
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And which governments are those? The only enduring "free speech zones" you find in the US on are some college campuses when they are often struck down in court. The only other use I can think of is some limited use during some events or parades. Although there are problematic aspects to their use in the US, it is still a long ways from fascism. Or does the existence of the hecklers veto provide the only true measure of freedom?
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Thank you for sharing about the Philippines, but that isn't quite the same as it notes in the article.
As for the rest, its nonsense. You also overlook the rights of audiences, organizations, and governments to conduct their assemblies for the intended purpose. Your right to free speech doesn't allow you to prevent others from engaging in theirs. You are simply embracing another form of censorship, an attack on free speech, and one popular with fascists by the way. There are 8760 hours in a year. A limi
Maybe it would be good if the Ayatollah wins? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Maybe it would be good if the Ayatollah wins? (Score:5, Informative)
"Arab spring in Iran? Maybe?"
Very unlikely since the Iranians are not Arabs - they're Persians
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Next way-out-there question: The US is pretty tired of middle east involvements right now...but if there was a significant revolt in Iran, would the US jump in? Fund rebels? Deliver arms?
Re:Maybe it would be good if the Ayatollah wins? (Score:5, Interesting)
You mean like in Syria where the end result has been ISIS? The Iranian people are actually moving towards more freedom on their own. They've voted in a pretty liberal (for that part of the world) President, they have more religious freedoms then most of that part of the world and isn't much different in some ways as American allies such as Saudi Arabia where they have morals police who will execute you on the spot and women have even less rights then Iranian women.
It's all a weird game where our friends are just as bad as our enemies, just that there is a lot of propaganda from both sides.
Re:Maybe it would be good if the Ayatollah wins? (Score:5, Insightful)
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middl... [atimes.com]
Iran is the mess it is now (from our perspective) directly because the US fucked them over in 1953. We have a bunch of clueless myopic idiots who's first and only thought is to dump more weapons anywhere there's a problem in the world, without giving second thought to how that's come back to bite our asses time and time again. If we quit listening to these numb-nutted war neo-cons, maybe we wouldn't keep finding ourselves in bad situations decades later.... although with the whole Iraq/Afghanistan thing, it didn't even take decades.
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As to the Saudis versus the Iranians - at least our friends aren't looking to attack us and work with us on many matters of common interest. You can't really say that about the Iranians.
Quoting Jon Stewart on the matter (speaking of saudi arabia) :
"May I remind you that a full 20% of the 9/11 hijackers were NOT from there"
This will be hugely popular. (Score:5, Funny)
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Ms. Steinem, I'd been told you were dead!
I can't believe we're afraid of these assholes (Score:2)
Re:I can't believe we're afraid of these assholes (Score:5, Insightful)
They aren't the only country wanting to remain in the 8th century, their are still supposedly modern countries that ban teaching or evolution and insist on teaching their kids at school creationism.
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You don't need religion for that kind of insanity. Do some reading about the dechristianisation of France during the French Revolution. I'll wait.
Nasty, isn't it? Given the evidence, it's difficult to believe that ideological atheism won't lead to irrationality and bloodshed just as quickly and easily as any religion.
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How does it fail to address your point?
I'm an atheist. I also don't believe in unicorns.
I don't campaign against unicorns. I don't really care if YOU believe in unicorns.
Yes, I think you're wasting a whole lot of time, money, and energy believing in something there is no evidence for.
If you start trying to convince me to believe in unicorns, I will debate it with you.
If you start trying to force me to live as though unicorns were real, I will fight you.
If you start chopping off the heads of people who don
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Re:I can't believe we're afraid of these assholes (Score:5, Insightful)
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You might know random other scientific facts, but that does not make one scientifically literate.
Note: I am a man of science and easily accept the validity of the theory of evolution.
They aren't random facts. Please actually read the linked article -- it's clear you aren't doing so, and it makes you look very bad and frankly undermines your points about science.
The article specifies that comprehension of the theory of evolution is uncorrelated to "belief" in the theory of evolution. In other words, just because somebody believes evolution, does not mean they understand what it is they believe in; ju
Re:I can't believe we're afraid of these assholes (Score:4)
It's like they WANT to remain in the 8th Century. Why is it exactly that we're afraid of them?
Because while they're eager to keep an 8th century moral code (and dress code for women), they seem decidedly more modern in their choice of military forces [wikipedia.org] and interest (but not yet attainment of) nuclear weapons [wikipedia.org].
Because, you know, when you're the Grand Ayatollah, some "Bikinis" are OK [wikipedia.org] but definitely not others [victoriassecret.com].
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You have to define your premise... (Score:5, Insightful)
First... moral standards are "his" moral standards.
Second, internet in general connects his people to the world... exposing them to other view points that might distort their indoctrination to his world view.
So what he is saying is "the people of my country might not believe in my values if exposed to alternative view points."
Which is rational. They probably won't. His world view is pretty weak on logic, argument, or supporting evidence. Its just do what I say or the sharp knives come out.
UNCENSORED high-speed internet (Score:5, Funny)
I accidentally RTFA'd and realised the fatwa is actually against high-speed internet that isn't government controlled and censored:
All third generation [3G] and high-speed internet services, prior to realization of the required conditions for the National Information Network [Iran’s government-controlled and censored Internet which is under development], is against Sharia [and] against moral and human standards.
Thus I conclude that internet porn is just fine, so long as it's consumed slowly, scanline by scanline. He clearly wants you to enjoy the anticipation.
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Or maybe is just a fan of ASCII art [asciiworld.com].
Wait a minute (Score:5, Interesting)
Where in the Koran does it mention bandwidth? or the speed in which information is made available, since it has nothing to do with what information is available, just the connection speed?
Re:Wait a minute (Score:4, Interesting)
The article doesn't give reasoning, but as he has no objection to high-speed internet once the filtering is in place I'm guessing his objection isn't to the technology but the content. The internet is full of things that would be regarded as corrupting by many in Iran. Not just the obvious pornography and blasphemy - this is a country where forign films often have to be edited to raise the necklines of women's clothing or chop of the arms off an unmarried couple so they aren't holding hands.
And the lord said unto them... (Score:5, Funny)
64kb/s ought to be enough for anybody.
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For $59 a month, I'm sure Comcast can market a Halal connection for 64kb/s. Act now, and receive a free burka! Whooo.
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Be nice to more then double my download speed and quadruple my upload speeds.
High Speed Internet Against Moral Standards? (Score:5, Funny)
Quick!, Get the Australian Government on the phone, slow national broadband is their policy! :)
Mr Malcolm Turnbull, We have a sale for your broadband plan.. Iran is interested in your vision!!
Great, (Score:5, Funny)
3G is bad... (Score:2)
Low Speed Strangulation is OK, though (Score:2)
Torture is OK in Iran.
Temptation (Score:5, Interesting)
It is interesting that one of the basis of most religions is the freedom to choose. Most religions allow people to choose to do good or choose not to. Why does the Muslim religion seem to want to control everything? Conversion by force, death sentence for converting to another religion, hiding women's bodies so not to tempt men and now censorship. What would a religion have to force it's followers to conform? What proves a person's faith is the ability to resist temptation. Look at the trials of Job. If the people need to be "protected" from temptation then their faith is weak.
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Wasn't that long ago the Christians were the same.
Ayatollah is right! (Score:2)
The Ayatollah speaks the truth. Just look at America. Everywhere there is broadband, heathens have flourished, while is REAL America, where dial-up reigns, people are living nobly under god's laws and the Bible. Preach it Brother Ayatollah! AMEN!
Look out Brian Roberts! (Score:2)
Someone's after your job.
Same thing from ultra-orthodox Jews. (Score:5, Informative)
Many ultra-orthodox rabbis who demand their followers not use uncensored smartphones or uncensored internet access. In 2012, a big anti-Internet rally for ultra-orthodox Jews was held in New York. [nytimes.com] "The siren song of the Internet entices us! It brings out the worst of us!" The event was streamed live and is summarized on YouTube. [youtube.com]
There are ultra-orthodox ISPs with filtering. The filtering is very stringent, [yeshivanet.com] based on a rabbi-approved whitelist. "That's all you get, and nothing else."
There are kosher cell phones [venishmartem.com]. "Kosher Phone has no camera, no Bluetooth capabilities, no memory card slot and cannot be connected to a computer."
That's in the US. In Israel, kosher cell phones are so locked down that only approved numbers can be called. Even rape crisis centers are blocked. [ynetnews.com]
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I have a Jewish friend in who co-runs a computer repair service in NYC. They've told me that when a rabbi calls for assistance, they inevitably have among the largest stashes of porn you can imagine. And the wives all have accounts on dating services.
On the bright side (Score:2)
At least there is a political disagreement and (a small number of government) people are talking about the issue.
It's scarier when you remember that Iran is a liberal democracy compared to some countries (Saudi Arabia).
Can't resist... (Score:2)
Ay ah tol' ya and ay ah tol' ya....
Sounds like Cable's arg. against Municipal Fiber (Score:5, Funny)
Four-gee (Score:4, Funny)
Whenever someone says "4G" half the time all I hear is "orgy". Is it just me or are other people having this same problem? This all started with the T-Mobile 4G chick and proceeded downhill from there.
Had to pause and rewind the commercials... all I kept hearing was "my touch orgy" .. when I knew consciously she must be saying "my touch 4G" ... I'm clearly going to hell.. and clearly high speed cellular networks are sinful.
Big Surprise (Score:3)
The Imams decided Gutenberg's printing press was off limits, because (you have to know how the press worked...stamping, essentially) printing the prophet's words on one would be equivalent of punching him in the face.
And ever since, Muslims have been spiraling downward into a pit of ignorance and fanaticism. There was a time when they were the flower of human civilization. That time has passed. Ours will, too, if we continue to allow superstitious morons to dictate our social and educational policiies.
I can understand his way of thinking (Score:4, Insightful)
Religion is at the root of many wars (Score:3, Interesting)
Its not that religion is evil, or that it does not have significant purpose. Its just that people use it as a means to carry out their own agenda hiding behind the myths and teachings that were misunderstood or misinterpreted. Religion is just a way to get people to follow you and to make you fear going against them because its going against a God. Iran is just another Country bent on keeping the information of the real world away from its people. Only instead of a dictator you have a religious figure who tries to control people through religion. Don't think for a second the Muslims are any more peaceful then the Christians, or Jews or any other religion. Wars throughout history have had significant meaning over differing religions. Unfortunately, religion has backfired on keeping peace in the world. It has only worsen and created conflicts and in many cases has shed more blood then it has saved. It was never meant to happen that way, but it has.
Let it self-destruct or interfere and prolong it (Score:4, Interesting)
To meddle in something that is none of your business merely tends to give credibility to whatever you disagreed with in the first place.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin.
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” - Mark Twain.
So if Iran or wherever wants to pass stupid edicts, just let it go ahead.
Have some respect for Iranians to recognize a horse's ass for what it is.
If a stupid government passes a sufficient number of dumb edicts that they eventually make themselves irrelevant.
Or maybe we should interfere and start another war which would surely help support a dumb regime (on both sides).
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This stupid Republican troll once blamed Republicans for rent increases in San Francisco! As if Republicans have any power there whatsoever.
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Just nuke these animals already.
I'm pretty sure that solution also has moral implications.
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So.... you support starting with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, right?