Belgian Privacy Watchdog Sues Facebook 72
An anonymous reader writes: Belgium is taking Facebook to task – and to court – about the company's opaque user-monitoring frameworks. The country's independent Privacy Commission, which is partnered with equivalent institutions in the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain, failed to obtain information from the social media giant about the extent and nature of its user-analysis network, and has now decided to take action. The commission is particularly interested in the use that Facebook makes of information about users who are not logged in to Facebook, and may not even be members. The ubiquity of Facebook "share" buttons, along with other popular widgets or modules, have extended the company's reach far beyond its own site. The court convenes on the matter this Thursday.
Re: (Score:1)
How do I like this comment?
Re: (Score:2)
By turning your computer off.
Millions of people don't use Facebook, and Facebook ignores their privacy and rents their information to whomever gives them a dollar.
Re: (Score:1)
Yay for Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
I think people in Europe are not as blinkered and easily duped as the USAians or others. FB is very invasive and not welcome, it is part of the problem and not part of the solution (on privacy and digital rights).
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I think people in Europe are not as blinkered and easily duped as the USAians or others. FB is very invasive and not welcome, it is part of the problem and not part of the solution (on privacy and digital rights).
Yea, we Europeans are really super extra great, not like Yankees... it is just that we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business, PLUS, we are stupid enough that we can't even decide what is the law!
Facebook has its European wing in Ireland (EU member), respecting the Irish law, which says it's o.k. for Facebook to operate in this way, but some Belgians (also EU member) say it may not be o.k. - and EU rules say that if Ireland says it's o.k., then it's o
Re: (Score:1)
Thing is, Ireland decided more or less for itself whether FB respects Irish law or not. Belgium takes it a bit further and if it's said it's NOT OK on EU level, Ireland has to respect it as well.
No Sir, i don't think it's like that, since the EU rule is that If a company has its headquarters in a EU country, and that country says it is o.k. for that company to operate in that country, then ALL the other EU countries must allow the company to operate in their countries like it operates in the country that has its headquarters - the (European wing of) Facebook is based on Ireland (EU member), Ireland says it's o.k., for facebook... Belgium (also EU member) must respect Ireland's decision!
note: i am
Re: (Score:1)
So ireland can dictate eu policy?
No - it is EU policy that if a EU member country allows a company to operate in its country then ALL other EU member countries must allow that company to operate in their countries also... BUT all EU member countries must accept EU policies...
Huh, odd system.
Yes - even we Europeans (i am Greek) do not understand it... or at least i don't!
Re: (Score:1)
Operate: yes Breaking the law in individual countries: no
I agree, BUT "the law in individual [EU member] countries" is the European Union's law!
Unless you can provide a link to what you're talking about and how it applies to the privacy laws in Belgium *and* the EU, this is a he says, she says situation.
Ha... if i could provide a link to make this clear, then much of the critisism of us Europeans about our Union would cease to exist...
Anyway, you can try this (good luck my friend!): http://ec.europa.eu/justice/ci... [europa.eu]
Re: (Score:1)
Please explain the difference between an EU directive and an EU law?
(PS: you can't google it)
Without googling it i will surely fail but i will try: a directive is a EU "proposal/decision" that must (in theory!!!) become national law.
Re: (Score:2)
So any company can search for the EU member with the weakest national laws to get a foothold into Europe ?
Doesn't this mean that if any country legalizes pot or prostitution it's legal everywhere in the EU ?
Re: (Score:1)
So any company can search for the EU member with the weakest national laws to get a foothold into Europe ? Doesn't this mean that if any country legalizes pot or prostitution it's legal everywhere in the EU ?
Not exactly - for that to happen (in theory) it must be compatible with EU's law or at least directives (i.e., "proposals" that must become members' national law... someday!), but even if that is not the case then a member state can not forbit that company to operate in the country it is based (so, for services that can be accesed without physical presence of a EU citizen -e.g. Facebooks case- it is o.k.! IN THEORY!!!)
Please note: i don't understand it myself very well, PLUS neither most Europeans do, PLUS
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't this mean that if any country legalizes pot or prostitution it's legal everywhere in the EU ?
Obviously not, as both are legal in the Netherlands. Well I suppose pot isn't technically legal, but you can buy it at coffee shops.
Prostitution is legal in at least one state in the US, but not in all. Pot is also legal in a couple of states for recreational use, and even more for medicinal purposes. However it's illegal in most, and all use is illegal at the federal level.
Re: (Score:1)
No, it is most certainly not. National laws are national laws and are only valid in a particular nation. There are also EU directives that are supposed to be valid EU-wide, but the actual implementation is a national responsibility so it can and will vary between the member states.
But since you are a Greek, it is understandable, that you don't have a clue about laws.
Re: (Score:1)
No, it is most certainly not. National laws are national laws and are only valid in a particular nation. There are also EU directives that are supposed to be valid EU-wide, but the actual implementation is a national responsibility so it can and will vary between the member states.
But since you are a Greek, it is understandable, that you don't have a clue about laws.
You could include the "Operate: yes Breaking the law in individual countries: no" part of the comment you quote, which was someone's reply to some other comment i made and in which i reply, plus read that other comment, and have a better understanding of the discussion, and even read in other comments i made the same point you just made... but i guess you just wanted to inform me that i am a Greek without a clue about the laws!
Re: Yay for Belgium (Score:2, Informative)
Dont forget in firefox to set this
privacy.trackingprotection.enabled : true
stops facebook code on webpages
and privacy badger from eff
rgds
Re:Yay for Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
who can't enter in to an agreement with a business
The commission is particularly interested in the use that Facebook makes of information about users who are not logged in to Facebook, and may not even be members.
Facebook is essentially saying you don't HAVE to enter into an agreement with them in order for them to keep track of you.
Re: (Score:1)
who can't enter in to an agreement with a business
The commission is particularly interested in the use that Facebook makes of information about users who are not logged in to Facebook, and may not even be members.
Facebook is essentially saying you don't HAVE to enter into an agreement with them in order for them to keep track of you.
That is something i don't like either - BUT, (at least) in EU (note: i am Greek), it is perfectly legal to collect general personal data about people without their consent (except of special cases, e.g., health data - you can even do that in some cases, but you have to provide a way for people to be informed for this and/or check their own data).
Re: (Score:1)
Enjoy while it lasts Zorba...
EU != EUROzone
Re: (Score:1)
No, it is not ! [europa.eu]
Under the Data Protection Directive , collecting and processing the personal data of individuals is only legitimate in one of the following circumstances laid down by Article 7 of the Directive:
- Where the individual concerned, (the 'data subject'), has unambiguously given his or her consent, after being adequately informed; or - if data processing is needed for a contract, for example, for billing, a job application or a loan request; or - if processing is required by a legal obligation; or - if processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interest of the data subject, for example, processing of medical data of a victim of a car accident; or - if processing is necessary to perform tasks of public interests or tasks carried out by government, tax authorities, the police or other public bodies; or - if the data controller or a third party has a legitimate interest in doing so, as long as this interest does not affect the interests of the data subject, or infringe on his or her fundamental rights, in particular the right to privacy. This provision establishes the need to strike a reasonable balance between the data controllers' business interests and the privacy of data subjects.
It shall be noted that Article 8 prohibits the processing of personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, trade-union membership, and the processing of data concerning health or sex life unless one of the exception criteria is met.
First of all: this is a directive [slashdot.org] (it is more than 2 decades old, and it become -some of its provisions- law in my country Greece just a couple of years ago), plus... read the the part in bold.
Re:Yay for Belgium (Score:4, Insightful)
if the data controller or a third party has a legitimate interest in doing so, as long as this interest does not affect the interests of the data subject, or infringe on his or her fundamental rights, in particular the right to privacy. This provision establishes the need to strike a reasonable balance between the data controllers' business interests and the privacy of data subjects.
First of all: this is a directive [slashdot.org] (it is more than 2 decades old, and it become -some of its provisions- law in my country Greece just a couple of years ago), plus... read the the part in bold.
Yes, and directives are the basis for national laws, meaning that national laws have to at least reach that level.
Also, please explain to us how Facebooks interest in collecting data from people that are not Facebook members is more legitimate than the interest of said people not having their data collected by a company they have no contractual relationship with?
Re: (Score:1)
if the data controller or a third party has a legitimate interest in doing so, as long as this interest does not affect the interests of the data subject, or infringe on his or her fundamental rights, in particular the right to privacy. This provision establishes the need to strike a reasonable balance between the data controllers' business interests and the privacy of data subjects.
First of all: this is a directive [slashdot.org] (it is more than 2 decades old, and it become -some of its provisions- law in my country Greece just a couple of years ago), plus... read the the part in bold.
Yes, and directives are the basis for national laws, meaning that national laws have to at least reach that level.
Also, please explain to us how Facebooks interest in collecting data from people that are not Facebook members is more legitimate than the interest of said people not having their data collected by a company they have no contractual relationship with?
The link included in my previous reply leads to an attempt i made to (badly) define a "directive" that you should read it, if you didn't already, plus read the reply you had from some anomymous poster - you quoted some parts of a directive, i put emphasis to a part i think it is relevant and told you to read it (it says something about "reasonable balance")... the rest is facebook's problem, i am not their lawyer my friiend!
Re: (Score:3)
Even Mark Zuckerberg likes privacy, who would have thought ?:
http://www.businessinsider.com... [businessinsider.com]
Re:Yay for Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
Yea, we Europeans are really super extra great, not like Yankees... it is just that we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business
I expect my government to protect me so that I can focus on my life. I thought this was one of the reasons I pay taxes.
I would hope that keeping me safe from bullshit and invasive practices of corporations is part of that protection.
Calling that kind of government activity "babysitting" is what an ultra-capitalist american corporate shill would do.
Re: (Score:1)
Yea, we Europeans are really super extra great, not like Yankees... it is just that we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business
I expect my government to protect me so that I can focus on my life. I thought this was one of the reasons I pay taxes. I would hope that keeping me safe from bullshit and invasive practices of corporations is part of that protection.
Calling that kind of government activity "babysitting" is what an ultra-capitalist american corporate shill would do.
Thank Zeus i am Greek then, so i can call that kind of government activity "babysitting" without being accused by some statist as "ultra-capitalist american corporate shill"...
Re: (Score:2)
Fair enough.
Then, let me rephrase that statement:
Calling that kind of government activity "babysitting" is what an ultra-capitalist greek corporate shill would do. :)
AC comment above wasn't me... I wouldn't personally insult you because of disagreeing with you. Especially not in that kind of language.
Re: (Score:1)
Fair enough.
Then, let me rephrase that statement:
Calling that kind of government activity "babysitting" is what an ultra-capitalist greek corporate shill would do. :)
Now that we have this "Greek" thing right, let's deal with the other parts: i am "ultra-capitalist" (and/or ANTI-statist as you understand) BUT i am NOT a "corporate shill" (i don't even have a facebook account!) - so, you was 1/3 right, now you are 2/3!
AC comment above wasn't me... I wouldn't personally insult you because of disagreeing with you. Especially not in that kind of language.
Don't worry about that my friend, most of the times it is easy for me to understand "who is who" (and i never thought it was you), plus, i am used to it (i am a Greek NATIONALIST, most of this "love" i am getting from "anonymous" is actually from Slashdoters
Re: Yay for Belgium (Score:1)
You keep saying that, that you're Greek. Near as I can tell, we can all claim whatever we like behind our pseudonyms here on these forums.
Re:Yay for Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
"we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business"
Let's be clear:
This court case is, among other things, about the like- and connect-buttons Facebook uses to track people on other websites on the web even if they have NO agreement with this company.
Re: (Score:1)
"we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business"
Let's be clear:
This court case is, among other things, about the like- and connect-buttons Facebook uses to track people on other websites on the web even if they have NO agreement with this company.
Yes, i agree Sir (since you keep it "straight to facts only")- BUT you may want to read some other comments [slashdot.org] i and other Slashdoters made about that (my basic point there is that it is legal to gather *general* personal data without consent).
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
No, not yay for Belgium.
Don't these privacy regulators have anything else to do? Where is their input in the Snowden affair, for example? Suspiciously missing in action.
Here's a good place to start when evaluating the utility of these investigations: a list of people who have been objectively harmed in some way by the alleged action. Can't find anyone who has been harmed by Facebook's actions in an entire countries worth of people? Then maybe that suggests the taxpayer money is better spent elsewhere.
Re: (Score:2)
Straw man - I didn't say financial harm. I said ANY meaningful kind of harm. Embarrassment, family problems, whatever.
There have been a bunch of blowups like this over the years. The worst "harm" that anyone has been able to demonstrate was that some people, somewhere (who are nameless as none of them filed any complaints) might have seen a better targeted advert.
Re: (Score:2)
Citation needed. No ad network I know of targets anything by IP address, exactly because they are so often shared.
Prove it. Then go ahead and explain why the fix for this is Belgium and not, say, user profiles on the computer in question.
"Hi, Facebook! Belgium here..." (Score:1, Troll)
"Hi, Facebook! Belgium here... we'd like to have ubiquity in surveilling our own citizens, like you have, but we're too stupid to build it ourselves, so we'd like a copy of your blueprints, KPLZTHX!"
Re: Yawn (Score:1)
Lol. The EU destroyed their good relations with Russia over Ukraine, obeying the US without questions. The economic damage is crippling the EU, destroying jobs left and right. The EU stopped hundreds of flights on the orders of the US when Snowden was suspected to be on one of those. Now the EU will sign a trade treaty with the US which will guarantee they'll be in thrall of the US forever. So much for you being "bigger", eurosluts. Obama made Europe our bitch. Now bend over and spread your ass wide.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, where's Neville Chamberlain when you really need him?
Re: (Score:1)