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White House Petition To Let Foreign STEM Grads Work Longer In US Hits 100K Signatures 216

theodp writes: Computerworld reports that a petition urging the White House to act urgently on a court ruling that could force thousands of recent foreign STEM graduates working in the U.S. on OPT STEM extensions to leave the States early next year reached 100,000 signatures Tuesday, the threshold for an official government response. It could present a political conundrum of sorts for the Obama administration. Because the administration didn't act to protect U.S. workers at Southern California Edison and Disney, explained an attorney in the case, "now that foreign workers will be losing their jobs, how would it look if Obama went into overdrive to protect their jobs?" By the way, using a map to gauge whether support for the petition comes from all over the country (as the White House suggests), indicates that support for the OPT STEM Extension petition is largely concentrated in tech hotspots and universities, including off-the-beaten-path college towns that host large international student populations.
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White House Petition To Let Foreign STEM Grads Work Longer In US Hits 100K Signatures

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  • They will act now (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Revek ( 133289 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:32AM (#50486427)

    Since it achieves goals for their $upporters.

    • Foreign STEM grads can't vote in the US . . . at least legally, but that's another matter.

      Rich US donors . . . well, they can vote, but who cares? What they can do is lobby and donate lots of money to the campaign that they own.

      At any rate, Obama can just issue an Executive Administration Decree to solve the problem however he likes.

  • US Citizens? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    So, how many of the signers are US Citizens?

    • Re:US Citizens? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Rob Riggs ( 6418 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @11:29AM (#50486885) Homepage Journal
      Wow -- why was such an insightful question modded down. There seems to be an organized campaign to downvote all posts raising similar questions. This is a very legitimate question. The terms of service does not seem to imply the the signer needs to be a U.S. citizen or have a right to vote in this country. That's a huge problem.
    • Re:US Citizens? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @11:38AM (#50486957) Journal

      Agreed with sibling... how many of the petitioners are actual US citizens? After all, an Internet-based petition is open to the world, and geolocation ain't that hard to circumvent (and that's not even counting the number of H1-B's signing it from their own home, US-geolocated, IP addys).

  • Doesn't Matter (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Psychotic_Wrath ( 693928 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:37AM (#50486483)
    If you look at the responses on Whitehouse.gov then you villl see that the responses are all pretty lame and meaningless. This is when they even choose to respond. Many times they simply say they wont bother responding. The petitions simply get a response that you would expect when calling a call center in India for customer service. Nothing ever changes or happens from a petition.
    • Re:Doesn't Matter (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @11:42AM (#50486993) Journal

      Well, that depends on the petition. If the petition bolsters the administration's standing/reputation/agenda, they'll happily respond. If it embarrasses or runs counter to the agenda, then it wouldn't matter if it had every US citizen signing the petition... it'll get ignored or given a form response with no action taken.

      I think this unofficial policy began approximately when the White House realized that their little petition website actually got used by the public (and wasn't just a window-dressing "oh look we'll respond to you directly here even though you sheep will never use it" type of thing.)

      • by wiggles ( 30088 )

        Not ordinarily an Obama defender, but....

        For every 100,000 people in the USA who sign a petition on this website, there are 318.76 Million people who did not sign it. Trying to come up with why they didn't - are they indifferent? Opposed? Ignorant? - is an exercise they need to go through for every petition with significant support. As a result, they will respond, but not necessarily take action, unless it makes sense to them, i.e. conforms to, or is at least compatible with, their agenda.

        • Part of the problem is that, in effect, there's only two positions you can take on a petition: "Support" or "Not Present", and everybody does the second by default. There's no "Oppose", or even "Abstain" options.

          In a poll (of almost anything, politics included), 100k responses is *HUGE* and easily enough to make highly accurate broad claims about the surveyed population (of course, said population may have been intentionally skewed, but you're still getting a far-more-than-representative sample of it). With

    • Nothing ever changes or happens from a petition.

      Except when it does:
      http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... [slashdot.org]

  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:37AM (#50486495)

    Who the hell would select a map view that pushes the coasts to the edges, makes the mostly empty-of-data-points great plains the biggest US section, and gives us a full frontal close-up of zero-data-point Mexico?

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      Who the hell would select a map view that pushes the coasts to the edges, makes the mostly empty-of-data-points great plains the biggest US section, and gives us a full frontal close-up of zero-data-point Mexico?

      Somebody in Kingsville, TX?

  • Won't go anywhere (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fire_Wraith ( 1460385 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:42AM (#50486531)
    First, this isn't the same as the H-1B issue. This would actually be a better solution if we were facing a shortage of skilled workers, because more trained entry level sorts would directly address that. The problem is, the tech moguls pushing for H-1Bs don't really care about that, they just want cheaper workers. The fact that most H-1Bs are used not to bring in highly paid experts in their field, but instead to bring in contract workers for IT sweatshops, should tell you something. That, and the fact that H-1Bs are largely stuck in their one job, are part of why this solution will likely not have any tech moguls or the like pushing for it.

    I do find it disingenuous that the lawyer quoted conflates the two though. Entry level types who happen to be foreign graduates of a US university aren't going to be competing for any jobs that aren't already at risk of being given to any US-born graduates (which is a problem in Tech, but is a rather different one). That said, the Obama administration (and politicians in general) ought to be doing a lot more to crack down on the H-1B fuckery, just in general, nevermind in relation to a broader immigration overhaul.
  • by wired_parrot ( 768394 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:44AM (#50486555)

    It could present a political conundrum of sorts for the Obama administration.

    How naive... they will respond as they always do with almost all these petitions - with a generic form letter statement that will provide vague reassurances that they are "looking into the issue", give no concrete plan for addressing the core demands while mostly evading the question. Anybody who thinks these petitions are worth the paper they are signed on and that the White House actually pays attention to them is deluded.

    • by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      It could present a political conundrum of sorts for the Obama administration.

      How naive... they will respond as they always do with almost all these petitions - with a generic form letter statement that will provide vague reassurances that they are "looking into the issue", give no concrete plan for addressing the core demands while mostly evading the question. Anybody who thinks these petitions are worth the paper they are signed on and that the White House actually pays attention to them is deluded.

      However, if white house responds positively, the Democrats immediately get support from the immigrant diaspora.

      With the republican being so anti-immigration, perhaps Democrats don't have to go the extra mile. Or, perhaps friendly immigration moves will capture those moderate with the strong anti-immigration vibes from the other camp.

    • Anybody who thinks these petitions are worth the paper they are signed on and that the White House actually pays attention to them is deluded.

      I generally agree, except it absolutely did work for cell phone unlocking. https://petitions.whitehouse.g... [whitehouse.gov]

      The DMCA exception had even been removed by the LoC, and after the public outcry, they reinstated the exception, and went even further. Today, the FCC forces all carriers to unlock phones as soon as they are paid-for:
      * http://pipedot.org/story/2015-... [pipedot.org]

      And that

  • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:46AM (#50486565) Journal
    If they reduce the number of H-1s, and keep the people here who were educated here, it seems like a reasonable solution.

    There's a risk that universities would open to merely subvert the immigration process, so safeguards against that should be taken. Also, why limit it to just STEM? If we train a great philosopher, America will be improved if that philosopher chooses to stay here.
    • by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      If they reduce the number of H-1s, and keep the people here who were educated here, it seems like a reasonable solution. There's a risk that universities would open to merely subvert the immigration process, so safeguards against that should be taken. Also, why limit it to just STEM? If we train a great philosopher, America will be improved if that philosopher chooses to stay here.

      The problem is that the primary way to keep those educated here is to make them H1Bs. For most, there is no other way to stay afterwards.

      • The point: ---->

        You: ----------->

        The suggestion was to make it so that the work visas currently available to graduating students don't expire (or are easier to renew, or something like that) *without* turning them into H-1Bs. Saying "the problem is that the way we can achieve Y is to do X" is pointless to the point of absurdity, when the discussion is centered on changing the rules.

  • ... if the petition is something that the admiinistration wasn't already planning on doing all along, all that reaching the right number of signatures is going to do is force somebody at the whitehouse to have to spend time trying to explain why they won't be doing that. p. These petitions result in absolutely zero real effect... they either agree with petitions they were already intending to do anyways, or end up explaining why they won't do the things they didn't intend to do. It never actually changes

  • that some of the less educated of the 94 million adults not working can get jobs.

  • Why don't we reduce the number of foreign students attending our Universities and make room for, you know, Americans? I believe that a good part of the reason that so many foreign students are admitted is the huge premium on tuition that the school collects. Foreign students pay WAY more in tuition than American students do so the schools have a vested interest in having as many foreign students as possible.

    Classroom seats, like so many other things in life, is a zero sum game. For every foreign student adm

    • by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      Why don't we reduce the number of foreign students attending our Universities and make room for, you know, Americans? I believe that a good part of the reason that so many foreign students are admitted is the huge premium on tuition that the school collects. Foreign students pay WAY more in tuition than American students do so the schools have a vested interest in having as many foreign students as possible.

      Classroom seats, like so many other things in life, is a zero sum game. For every foreign student admitted there is one American student that misses the cut. Why not take care of American students first and then, if there are any seats left, admit foreign students? Would this not address the supposed shortage of skilled STEM workers that business is always whining about?

      Classroom seats are not zero sum games.

      Universities can build buildings, hire teachers and can create as many classroom seats as needed.

      • To make room for more foreign students you mean? You're missing the point. We don't need more seats in the classroom and more buildings. We need to take care of American students first and foremost.

        • Out of curiosity, why? What makes an American student more worthy of education than a foreign one? We're all human. Why should the location of your birth privilege you or work against you? "That's just the way it is" isn't a valid answer, when you're arguing against something that is would change this situation; obviously that's not "just the way it is" because at that point, you're trying to *make* it that way.

          With that said, if you want to favor education for US citizens, how about attacking the root of t

          • "What makes an American student more worthy of education than a foreign one? " - Everyone is "worthy" of an education. But American universities are funded by American tax payers (public ones anyway - private schools is a different matter). We built those schools so it seems to me that we should get preference when it comes to admissions.

            "If the universities prefer foreign students because they get more money for them, maybe you should fix *that*." - I agree with you completely. Universities are gaming the

    • Follow the money. A university makes the most money on out of state students and graduate students. Foreign students nearly always got their undergraduate degree locally before coming to the US and have a harder time switching universities. So a captive graduate student population paying the highest fees is what is focused on. Who cares about undergraduate studies, that isn't as profitable and your highest profit students already have that from a different country.

      Its simple, really. The university couldn't

      • Exactly right. The only thing I would take issue with is the assertion that Universities are chronically short of money. If that is true then it is not due of lack of funding. Universities get plenty of money. The issue is how it gets spent. I have done a lot of work for Universities and they are run like little governments. Lots of waste and inefficiency, trust me on that.

        I'm going a bit off topic here but I think that Universities spent far too much money on sports.

        • I could, and perhaps should, have qualified the part about "chronically short on money". The short version is that they will always plead poverty when it comes to raises, maintenance, etc., though if it is the pet project of the chancellor, beneficiary of generous donation, or paid for by a researcher there is usually enough money.

          While I don't disagree that they spend too much money on sports and I don't have the budget of any university in front of me, I believe that the biggest problem is on administrati

          • "I believe that the biggest problem is on administrative overhead " - Bingo! The same problem exists, I believe, in public schools. Not enough money in the classroom, too much money on overhead.

            "What happens then is that a university can have a lot of money, some faculty may be very rich, but the "wrong" departments and "wrong" faculty will be woefully poor, stuck in condemned buildings and the like." - Exactly. We see this in government as well. City Hall is full of marble and custom furniture. The welfare

  • I've been in IT for over twenty years. I have never, ever, felt there was a general consensus in favor of the aptitude, creativity, productivity, quality of workmanship from H1-B workers, F1 Visa interns, or in general 'Indian or Chinese' workers. For the SJWs, there are some really good ones, nothing is 100%. But, there's not that many to warrunt a perceivable pattern of excellence. If they were so good, or even as good as Americans, then why don't they create their own globally influential Apple/Micro

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