Amazon Is Raising Some Workers' Pay Further, Adding Bonuses After Controversy (bloomberg.com) 112
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Amazon is sweetening the pay for some of its longtime warehouse workers after employees criticized the loss of bonuses and stock awards as part of the company's pledge to boost all wages to at least $15 an hour. The world's largest online retailer grabbed headlines last week with its minimum-pay pledge -- followed by concerns from veteran workers who feared their compensation would actually decline because the company also eliminated bonuses and stock awards. Amazon said any workers already earning $15 would get raises of $1 per hour. Now, some of those employees are learning their hourly raises will actually be $1.25 an hour. Additionally, Amazon is introducing a new cash bonus of $1,500 to $3,000 for tenure milestones at five, 10, 15 and 20 years. Workers with good attendance in the month of December will also get a $100 bonus, according to the company. "All hourly Operations and Customer Service employees will see an increase in their total compensation as a result of this announcement," Amazon said in a statement. "The significant increase in hourly cash wages effective Nov. 1 more than compensates for the phase out of incentive pay and future (stock) grants."
Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:2)
pay and benefits. Most of my friends here in Seattle work for Amazon, and they make less than market, are expected to work 60+ hours a week, be on call 24/7, and aren't allowed vacation time unless they're from Asia.
Re: Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:5, Insightful)
They must like it since they donâ(TM)t go elsewhere.
Re: Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:4, Interesting)
They must like it since they donâ(TM)t go elsewhere.
Not really. They're gone one way or another in 18 months on the average, either by job hopping, perhaps internally, or by being fired. Much of Amazon is all about putting in that work only to pad your resume for the next job, vacation between jobs, and then repeating the process till they have built up a resume to get the career they want. At least, that is how the people I've known at Amazon have treated it.
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> unless they're from Asia
I understand that flights to India or China are expensive and take a lot of time so you want a minimum of two weeks off, but it just sucks for workers from America. I haven't had a full week off since 1993 when I had my first job out of college. Just sucks that we're not allowed time off and they get a lot of time off every year. My Indian friends that work at amazon.com all get at least two weeks off a year while my friends that are local only get a long weekend off here or
Re:Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:4, Funny)
sounds like you need an union!
Re: Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like he is full of shit.
Re: Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:1)
What are you waiting for, death?
Re:Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:4, Informative)
The lack of vacation time except for Asians is pretty normal in the Seattle area. I grew up in Seattle and graduated from Univ of Washington with a CS degree in 1989, and I haven't had an entire week off my entire adult life but most of my coworkers from India have always been allowed two or more weeks off. Yes, I understand the hassle of 24+ hours of travel time and the expense to take you entire family home, but it's unfair to the rest of us. In addition, requesting time off from amazon.com just sucks. I've been trying to see my eye doctor to get new glasses for almost five years. I keep making appointments, and my time off either gets denied or it's approved then later denied since something comes up. It sucks that the company plus myself pays so much for vision coverage, but I can't use it.
Re: Wish they would do something about engineer... (Score:1)
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Dude...get a real job.
You mean other than being a Russian AC troll? I've been in the tech industry in Seattle for 25 years now. Taking three weeks off for Burning Man every year is more common than never being able to get time off for an eye exam.
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You need to get approved time off for a Dr's appointment? And you're presumably an "exempt" status employee?
I'd never work for a company like that. It's complete and utter trash.
Salaried, exempt staff, by definition are supposed to have a basic level of autonomy.
Perhaps it's time to speak up for yourself, get a real vacation approved and take it no matter what. Once it's approved the discussion is simply: "I made plans. I won't be in."
If they decide to later deny it or terminate you, so much the better. Kee
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Why the fuck would anyone work under these conditions?
I've never worked ANYWHERE with any policy other than "You get X amount of time off, when you take it is up to you - pretty much."
My current company gives everyone a month of PTO - and you have the option to buy another week. We're hiring, 3 devs, right now.
Re: Wish they would do something about engineer.. (Score:2)
Sure. But your taxes are so much higher, so your money can be used to buy shit for other people. No thanks.
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"I've been trying to see my eye doctor to get new glasses for almost five years."
That sounds more like slavery than a job. You know some places are open nights and weekends. Or do they make you work 24/7 as well?
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"Most of my friends here in Seattle work for Amazon, and they make less than market"
If that's what Amazon is paying, it sounds like it IS the market and paying accordingly.
$3k !!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: $3k !!!!! (Score:2)
Not even close.
Re:$3k !!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
"I had to work here 10 years to get up to $15/hr. Now they're paying newbs who walk in the door on day 1 the same amount I'm making after ten years ... how unfair is that?"
And complaining that they get a $3000 bonus after working ten years, oh my, how unfair is that! Paying for knee replacements is a health insurance issue. Worker's comp in many places. Worker's Comp in Oregon is so much better than health insurance because there is no deductable and no "in network" for care. You get a bill for a service for a worker's comp claim you send it to SAIF and they pay it. You have to drive 60 miles to see a specialist? You submit a milage claim and they pay it.) When I got my last worker's comp claim approved, they sent me a stack of reimbursement forms preprinted with my info, all I have to do is fill in the amounts and mail them back.
I hope Amazon loves the results of their social experiment. It will only prove to them how over-employeed they are and push for even more automation, like the Japanese warehouse that cut its employees by 90% after automating.
Re:$3k !!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
"This just shows the problem with creating a really high minimum wage. Everyone who was already making that amount will want a raise, too."
It's only a problem in the immediate context and really it's only a problem because clearly employees were being under paid, thus Amazon's raising their internal minimum wage. If employees were paid properly so this sudden adjustment didn't need to be made this wouldn't be a problem.
"I hope Amazon loves the results of their social experiment. It will only prove to them how over-employed they are and push for even more automation, like the Japanese warehouse that cut its employees by 90% after automating."
Of course Amazon's big problem right now is a labor shortage due to low unemployment. Make no mistake, this wage change has absolutely nothing to do with altruism, it has everything to do with making themselves competitive at their lowest levels with McDonald's.
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Make no mistake, this wage change has absolutely nothing to do with altruism, it has everything to do with making themselves competitive at their lowest levels with McDonald's.
And why is this bad... Competition is pushing the "little man" to higher qualities of life. Free markets are driving better results than some federal/local minimum wage requirement.
That's not really a problem (Score:5, Informative)
Also before everyone piles in with the old "if you raise wages prices go up" nonsense, if that were true humanity could never progress as a species. We'd still be subsistence farmers and the big mac index wouldn't be a thing. Prices go up slower than wages when productivity goes up faster than wages. And productivity has been raising pretty much non stop if you focus on raw output (yes, an increasing number of low wage service employees replacing high paying manufacturing jobs means that measured productivity growth across the entire economy is flat, but we're still making more real goods with less people, see here [youtube.com]).
Basically so long as you're making more stuff with less or even the same people you can raise wages without price inflation, because that's real wage growth. e.g. there's more stuff for everybody. Well, not since 2008 though. Since 2008 the more stuff part of the equation has gone to the top 1%....
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Basically so long as you're making more stuff with less or even the same people you can raise wages without price inflation, because that's real wage growth. e.g. there's more stuff for everybody. Well, not since 2008 though. Since 2008 the more stuff part of the equation has gone to the top 1%....
The "more stuff" part maybe hasn't gone to you, but globally, the gains aren't restricted to the top 1%. Billions of people have entered the middle class [brookings.edu] (and millions have joined the 1%).
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Also before everyone piles in with the old "if you raise wages prices go up" nonsense, if that were true humanity could never progress as a species.
It is obviously true, because you are forgetting the implicit "all other things being the same" condition. All other things being the same, doubling the cost of labor will absolutely cause the prices to go up. It cannot do otherwise. If you have a shift of ten people at McDs and the wages (and associated taxes, etc) double, then the prices will have to go up.
Now, the reason we "progress as a species" (which is itself a stupid way to refer to this) is because all other things are not the same. You have a sh
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More absolute nonsense, as prices are set to maximize revenue. Let's say you're middle management and you come into the CEO's office, to tell him that you've raised prices in response to the latest increase in the minimum wage. He asks if the price increase has cost the compan
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More absolute nonsense, as prices are set to maximize revenue.
When your costs go up, they come out of that "profit", and to keep the profit the prices have to go up. A company that has a 2% margin like many grocery stores do cannot accept a 10% increase in costs and keep the prices the same.
Let's say you're middle management and you come into the CEO's office, to tell him that you've raised prices in response to the latest increase in the minimum wage. He asks if the price increase has cost the company more in lost customers than it has gained in creased revenue,
The number of lost customers is completely irrelevant if your prices no longer cover the costs of doing business. Any exec who tells the CEO that "we've kept 100% of our customers but every sale is now costing us money because Uberbah says we don't have to raise prices to cover tha
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Just because workers comp is like that where you live, don't assume its like that for most of the U.S. My wife used to work at a nursing home where they chronically understaffed. While lifting a patient that should have been a two person lift (but they only had one person for that wing), my wife hurt her back. Two separate doctors recommended getting an MRI but workers compensation required preapproval and they refused to approve it. They also refused to approve other procedures strongly recommended by
that's American capitalism for you (Score:2)
See also, A Nobel Prize-winning physicist sold his medal for $765,000 to pay medical bills [vox.com]
Only in America.
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You couldn't be more wrong.
Tell it to the 60k people in Ontario [www.cbc.ca] who lost their job when the minimum wage was increased by $2.40/hr. Ontario bumped it's min. wage from $11.60 to $14/hr in one year, the estimates...estimates were 60k jobs lost by 2019. [globalnews.ca] The reality was so much worse, you can find the usual sites like vox, vice, huffpo all falling over themselves that min. wage hikes really don't kill jobs. The fact that Ontario accounted for 68% of all jobs lost in Canada tells a different story, speaking of which out of those 60k p
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Minimum wage hikes do cost some jobs, but most people who get laid off find employment again within 6 months, and for minimum wage workers, at a better rate of pay on account of the minimum wage hike.
Or do you think that it's right to pay people that work full time hours anything less than a wage that is enough to actually live on?
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Minimum wage hikes do cost some jobs, but most people who get laid off find employment again within 6 months, and for minimum wage workers, at a better rate of pay on account of the minimum wage hike.
In theory those people find work. But look to the US, where people were unemployed so long they fell right off the official stats. Here in Ontario, we've shed nearly 400k good paying middle income jobs because of the policies of the previous government. The anti-manufacturing, pro-service industry crap hurt a lot of people.
Or do you think that it's right to pay people that work full time hours anything less than a wage that is enough to actually live on?
That depends. The problem right now is that wages haven't kept pace with inflation like they have in the past. Wages in the US for example were so flat that some people who were empl
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Wrong answer.
Of course... and the solution to this is to start actually paying people fairly, not to compound the problem by not paying them right just because it might cause a momentary dip in the highest paid's bottom line who could afford it anyways. In the long ru
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Wrong answer.
No, that's the right answer. Regulation in general works in a negative way, especially in countries where a company can simply close up shop, export the job production and continue selling in that same country.
Of course... and the solution to this is to start actually paying people fairly, not to compound the problem by not paying them right just because it might cause a momentary dip in the highest paid's bottom line who could afford it anyways. In the long run, the improvements in productivity that result from better wages more than make up for the financial losses. Ford figured that out a century ago.
And how do you determine what is "fair" to pay a person for their labor? Right, and that's your wrong answer wrapped up into a tidy bundle. The theory your proposing hasn't worked out anywhere at all, and in fact acts in a negative fashion.
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If a job is so menial that it doesn't justify paying a person to do it a decent wage if they are doing it full time, then it's not a job that should be done by people at all.
If that's not an option, then if society still needs the job to be done, then it follows that it must be worth paying someone a decent wage to do it... and how mundane anyone else might find that job to be is irrelevant.
To suggest otherwise is to treat people who work at such low paying jobs as less than human.
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If a job is so menial that it doesn't justify paying a person to do it a decent wage if they are doing it full time, then it's not a job that should be done by people at all.
Really? Seems to me most people like to have purpose in their lives, like to work. Many of those menial jobs, were filled by people who failed education or have mental problems. Gives them a chance to function in society, work with people, humanizes them.
If that's not an option, then if society still needs the job to be done, then it follows that it must be worth paying someone a decent wage to do it... and how mundane anyone else might find that job to be is irrelevant.
This is wrong. The definition of "decent wage" is never defined, a person who works as a janitor will never make the same as a person who's a line selector. But both jobs have value to the person in question.
To suggest otherwise is to treat people who work at such low paying jobs as less than human.
No, to treat a person being paid such a job
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I would define as being, at a bare minimum, whatever "living wage" is presently defined at.
I never suggested they should be paid the same. I suggested that they should both be making a decent wage, which means that they are both making *AT LEAST* enough money to functionally live on (if they are working full time, that is... if they are not, then the amount t
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I would define as being, at a bare minimum, whatever "living wage" is presently defined at.
That's called "the poverty line" and the minimum wage is generally pretty close to that level. That also means $15/hr in san fran, ca for example will mean you're poorer then the person working in macon, ga at $8/hr.
I never suggested they should be paid the same. I suggested that they should both be making a decent wage, which means that they are both making *AT LEAST* enough money to functionally live on (if they are working full time, that is... if they are not, then the amount they make should be proportionally less), independently, in society without further depending on any government assistance or subsidization.
Except that's where this always ends up in this line of reasoning. A "decent wage" is variable to the person. If I lived in Toronto, Ontario and was making $120k/year I'd barely be making ends meet, that's around $55/hr. On the other hand if I live in Ingersoll, Ontario and making $120k/year
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While I can't speak to the particulars of the wages that you are citing, did I say anything that suggested I meant otherwise?
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But even taking your claims on face value, 60,000 represents 0.4% of Ontario's total population. The remaining 99.6% is better off (overall wages for the province are up), as will be that 60,000 in the long run. That's a pretty good trade-off.
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Problem: the "job losses" opponents of minimum wage cry about are almost entirely due to people being able to work at one or two jobs to get by, instead of two or three. As for the remainder, if your business doesn't pay a living wage, your business doesn't deserve to exist. And you never talk about the job increases due to all the money going into local economies, because workers have more money to spe
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Few things are quite as American as describing an increased standard of living for the working class as a "problem".
That's a feature, not a bug.
Do you like your corporatist boots black, or do you like them with a bit of sugar
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We graduate 1.5 STEM students from college for every entry-level STEM job opening.
Now, tell me again how going to college and picking the supposedly "hot" degree will ensure high pay.
$1.25/hr raise! (Score:2)
Oh hold me back! /s
Re:$1.25/hr raise! (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh hold me back! /s
That's an 8% raise for someone earning $15 an hour. Would you not like an 8% raise?
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Between the continuous turnover and an improving job market, this is just turning up the optics on what many companies are forced to do these days. With the lowest unemployment rate, wages are skyrocketing, over the last 24 months, average wages have gone up nearly $1.50/h with the lower income brackets now making ~$300/month more than just 12 months ago (compared to $100/month for those in the higher earning brackets).
$15/h is advertised in many malls these days for entry level jobs. I just tried to hire o
That sounds excellent for their employees (Score:1)
That sounds excellent for their employees. How about for once, we give Amazon some credit for this.
There will probably be many opportunities to excoriate Amazon in the future. Let's see.
Empirically Need Unions (Score:2, Insightful)
Cause and effect, no unions in Amazon is like a person without an immune system. This is just anti-biotic shot that is for PR stunt.
100 bonus for good attendance at Xmas (Score:1)
$100.......That is kind of weak.
I remember most people in Brazil when I was there 30 years ago seemed to get an extra paycheck during the holidays. It was the way people could have a little extra during a special time and helped families avoid the financial strain at the end of the year.
Made it easy to pay of debts, get presents, have money for visiting family.
I always found that system to be a great way to help with the spirit of people at the end of the year.
This is like... (Score:4, Informative)
Gee, A Hundred Dollars (Score:2, Funny)
Ezra, you've had good attendance. I bet you thought I'd forgotten your Christmas bonus. Here you go!
Ezra: "A hundred dollars. Maybe I'll go to the movies... by myself..."
Re:Clear solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Give billionares huge tax cuts and they'll still whine about poor and oppressed they are.
Re:Clear solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Your sig says "debt is slavery". Are you suggesting those that accumulated debt are putting people into slavery? No one asked them to sign up for credit cards, car loans, home loans, or anything else. Slavery means "without consent". When you apply, sign, and shop, you consented.
Re: Clear solution (Score:1)
"No one asked them to sign up for credit cards, car loans, home loans, or anything else."
What rock have you been living under? I get unsolicited offers from usurers all the time.
Our economy is structured so that home ownership requires submitting to usury. Our tax laws penalize anyone who does not submit to large scale usury. Travel is vastly more difficult for those few upright souls who refuse usurious credit cards.
Maybe it's time for a Palintokia?
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Travel is vastly more difficult for those few upright souls who refuse usurious credit cards.
Thanks for telling me this—And here I thought I was getting along just fine, since I don't even have a credit card and my debit card has worked without issues for me in every country I've ever visited (about 30 of those, last time I bothered to count). Silly me!
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I'm happy to hear you have had better experience with debit cards than have I and my friends.
The biggest travel issue was rental cars. It seems that all airport rental car companies (in the US at least) really strongly prefer a credit card. They are usually willing to rent to debit card holders, but only on the condition of withdrawing a multi-thousand dollar deposit from the renter's bank account.
I've also heard stories about people having difficulty renting hotel rooms (again in the US) with a debit car
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I've used my Swedish bank card in the US many times to rent vehicles and rooms. It has a Visa card number but it's a debit card. Never had it turned down by any business that accepts Visa cards.
I have run into a few places in China (locally-owned shops or China-only businesses) that take only UnionPay [unionpayintl.com] cards or cash, but ATMs are plentiful and I've never had any trouble with those.
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Rich? Hardly. I merely have reliable income and a very clear set of priorities. 90% of my travel relates to family, BTW—neither my wife nor I are natives of Sweden, Europe, or even the same country.
And we were talking about *credit cards*, which absolutely no-one ever uses to buy a *house*, FFS. I have a mortgage just like 90% of homeowners in Western countries do.
And I've ~20 years experience in my field, the last 15 of them split between three of the biggest names in the industry, and I'm the author
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Try renting a car with a debit card and get back to us, snowflake.
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You absolutely can rent a car with a debit card, they typically place a hold on around $250.00 which isn't that much. If you think its too much, you probably don't have the means to be financially responsible for damage you cause it.
Also, if you don't want debt, don't spend on credit what you can not pay off. All of my cards are at $0.00 balance every month, because that helps keep me in check. I only finance what I have to (home, auto), and the auto is at 2.9% which is just about the same as the rate of in
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One small correction here: we're not enslaved by debt in the sense that you're talking about, we're enslaved by credit. It's entirely possible to have good credit while not being in debt, slavery notwithstanding.
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It's entirely possible to have good credit while not being in debt
Uh....no. To get a high FICO score, you're going to have to be in debt to somebody.
Just having a credit card that you pay off every month doesn't help, because a component of your FICO score is the mix of your credit accounts. If you don't have something like a mortgage or car loan, it is going to hurt your score.
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A common mis-conception. Having good credit means making a payment every month (which you can't do if your balance is $0). You need to make a purchase (even just filling up gas), and then pay it down to $0. What mostly determines your score is:
A) How long your accounts have been open for and in good standing
B) Your payment history (again, you should make a payment every month, even if it's for a pack of gum).
C) Your debt to income ratio (this one is mis-understood: the less debt you have, the better! All th
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No it isn't. Even if you have a credit card with a 25% interest rate, you still get a grace period before interest is due and you can pay it off and owe NO interest whatsoever. Nothing usurious about that.
Even so, you can also just as easily use a DEBIT card, avoiding the issue of borrowing money altogether.
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25% is the definition of usurious a few times over.
Re: Clear solution (Score:2)
So fucking get one that does. There are THOUSANDS to choose from.
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Your sig says "debt is slavery". Are you suggesting those that accumulated debt are putting people into slavery? No one asked them to sign up for credit cards, car loans, home loans, or anything else. Slavery means "without consent". When you apply, sign, and shop, you consented.
Under the Federal Reserve system, all money is lent into existence. Every American dollar represents a debt owed back to the Federal Reserve. A few people manage to have no debt, but that just shifts the debt burden onto other people.
You and I have little choice but to participate in this system. Signing up for home, business or car loans is essentially required. In order to participate in capitalism you need capital. For the vast majority that means borrowing it from a bank or someone with a lot of mo
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Just to be clear, it is commercial banks that do the majority of this lending and monetary creation.
Yes, indeed. Many of those banks are members of the Federal Reserve system, while some are not. Regardless, they are all creating money from debt, in the form of federal reserve notes, or numbers on a screen representing such notes.
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The govornment is creating debt, thereby lending it out. It gives you the ability to spend it (though bank lending). You don't have to take out a loan. You can start from $0 and work for your money. When you earn, you can spend, invest, and save. If you save, then the bank you saved with lends that out to others. So in a sense, you can have people indebted to you, just for being financially responsible.
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What a sweet, elitist summer child you are. Car breaks down and you have no choice but to fix it unless you want to lose your job, followed by an eviction? Put the repair on credit. Have to go see the doctor but you have a shitty
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It's always a choice. Car broke down and costs a few hundred to fix? Too bad you just had to have the latest iPhone. Got sick and had shitty insurance? Too bad you didn't pay for better insurance.
We have such a strong safety net in this country, and are THE MOST generous nation on earth (literally, in terms of dollars donated). If you are truly poor, go to a church, or other NGO. Fill out help forms from your city, county, state, and federal programs. People will help you. For fuck's sake; start a go-fund-m
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You're so far out there you can see Pluto from your house. People like you are why gulags were invented, so you can spend a couple of decades digging ditches while rethinking your life choices.
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