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Microsoft Operating Systems Windows

Microsoft is Working On a New Iteration of Windows To Take On ChromeOS, Report Says (petri.com) 161

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
Petri's Brad Sams writes: For more than a year, we have been hearing about Windows Core OS and how it is a modern version of Windows. As Microsoft continues to build out the platform, it's time to take a look at what the secret project actually includes and how the company is positioning the platform. In Microsoft's feverish attempts to shove out insider builds at an impressive rate, the company doesn't always do a great job at scrubbing the finer details from the builds. Because of this, and some help from a couple insiders, I have been able to piece together what Lite is and where it's headed.

Microsoft is working on a new version of Windows that may not actually be Windows. It's currently called Lite, based on documentation found in the latest build, and I can confirm that this version of the OS is targeting Chromebooks. In fact, there are markings all over the latest release of the insider builds and SDK that help us understand where this OS is headed. If you have heard this before, it should sound a lot like Windows 10 S and RT; Windows 10 Lite only runs PWAs and UWP apps and strips out everything else. This is finally a truly a lightweight version of Windows that isn't only in the name. This is not a version of the OS that will run in the enterprise or even small business environments and I don't think you will be able to 'buy' the OS either; OEM only may be the way forward.
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Microsoft is Working On a New Iteration of Windows To Take On ChromeOS, Report Says More

Microsoft is Working On a New Iteration of Windows To Take On ChromeOS, Report Says

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  • Wasn't it just in the last one or two years we heard Microsoft saying that Windows 10 was it - there basically wasn't going to be any new releases of Windows going forward, only iterative improvements on the existing product?

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re:That didn't take long (Score:5, Insightful)

        by tripleevenfall ( 1990004 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:58PM (#57749058)

        It's just M$ doing their usual song and dance - showing up late to the party to do a poor imitation of the innovators in a space, and being soundly rejected by consumers.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Hylandr ( 813770 )

          Nailed it.

        • You nailed it about what they do.

          You are also correct about being rejected by consumers.

          But, goal of Microsoft is not these consumers. It is to retain its grip on corporate IT. Their ChromeOS clone will have ActiveDirectory authentication built in. And it will be pitched to corporations.

          And it might not do any better. But it will give the appearance of doing something etc till the stock options vest and the current crop of mismanagers to retire or cash out.

          • ActiveDirectory and Outlook built in. ChromeOS will be flattened out on the roadway in the corporate market.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by rtb61 ( 674572 )

            Nope, target at the school environment, get them addicted whilst they are young and get them used to handing over all their information to M$. Free of very low cost for schools, but hand over all students and their parents information and you can bet slime in ads, in a very short time, more and more ads.

            M$ does not give one shite about the negative reaction to their mass invasion of privacy, nor their ability to force software installs on you computer or the ability to delete content on your computer at wi

            • Privacy train has left the station ages ago. No body seems to give a damn. People casually take a picture and post and share everything, from what they eat to what they crap.

      • Let's see
        Win light Mac os

        limited range of hardware Very Likely Yes
        backwards compatible Very limited Yes
        Store lock in ---------------- Yes NO
        Supports TB / pci-e cards

        • What I would like, though, is for Microsoft to come up with a scheme where it is installable on Chromebooks. Some sort of 'crack' that makes it possible to write over ChromeOS.

      • This is just looks like a revival of the failed Windows 10 S in a new form. No one wanted that and no one will want this version of it either.

        You mean a revival of the failed Windows RT?

        Windows CE?

        Win32 app compatibility is the only reason people continue to use Windows. People use it in spite of Microsoft, not because of them.

    • But it IS Windows 10. The name is "Windows 10 Lite". See? It's right there in the name!

      :eyeroll:

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:09PM (#57748730)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Ah yes, the perpetual follower (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:22PM (#57748830)

      Microsoft always skating to where the puck was, never where it's going. No one who chooses to use Windows wants a dumbed-down ChromeOS clone. If they want ChromeOS they'll use the real thing not the shoddy imitation that's called Windows that isn't really Windows.

      Yes, they're making the same mistake as Windows Phone. Instead of innovating something new, they're trying to imitate the competition long after the market is established and already saturated.

      Too late for this MS. Think of something new- innovate instead.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • use confusing naming schemes and licensing tiers

          This IS the business model. So MANY distinctions-without-a-difference editions of the same thing, each with its own crazy math licensing rules and costs.

          Everybody ends up buying up to avoid getting too little and winds up buying more than they actually wanted. It's weaponized information asymmetry.

    • I am reminded of the NetBook fad a decade ago. Cheap Low End laptops used mostly for low end users. Microsoft didn't have too much luck in that field, as most Netbook users gravitated towards Linux.

      I don't see Chromebooks (which are Netbooks under a different name) getting big in MS territory. If you want windows, chances are you will be wanting to do some gaming, and you need more horse power.

      • Re:Ah yes, the perpetual follower (Score:4, Informative)

        by chispito ( 1870390 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:48PM (#57748986)

        I am reminded of the NetBook fad a decade ago. Cheap Low End laptops used mostly for low end users. Microsoft didn't have too much luck in that field, as most Netbook users gravitated towards Linux.

        I recall the original eee PC running Linux, but I think over the life of the fad, most netbooks were sold running some form of Windows XP.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Lonewolf666 ( 259450 )

          Microsoft reacted to the NetBook fad by releasing a dirt cheap version of XP, limited to screen resolutions and memory sizes typically found in a netbook.
          Microsoft might not have earned much with that, but they successfully beat back the threat of a major Linux invasion in that market.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Teckla ( 630646 )

            Yep, Microsoft made the netbook experience so miserable, that netbooks became synonymous with crap.

            Chromebooks are the modern equivalent of netbooks.

            • I think it was more about the price point. Netbooks were aimed at a market where a "regular" Windows Home license would have hurt competitiveness quite a bit due to its price.
              So the makers of early netbooks went "hey, lets use Linux to cut the cost". Cue Microsoft making an even more crippled version of Windows XP and selling it cheap enough for the netbook market. User inertia did the rest.

      • I am reminded of the NetBook fad a decade ago. Cheap Low End laptops used mostly for low end users. Microsoft didn't have too much luck in that field, as most Netbook users gravitated towards Linux.

        The first models, like the EeePC 701 included truly awful Linux distributions, and a manual that was mostly instructions on how to install Windows XP. I believe Linux Netbooks had an incredibly high return rate. Your best bet was to either install Windows XP on them, or another distribution (like EeeBuntu). I don't know why the Linux models didn't just ship with Ubuntu instead of an ugly bastard step-child of an operating system.

        I believe including Linux was an act to pressure Microsoft to release low cost

        • I have my mom's old Netbook, and I upgraded it to 2gb of memory and a 500g hard drive. It's still anemic, but it's useful for a few things.

          • Re:Ah yes, the perpetual follower (Score:5, Insightful)

            by LinuxIsGarbage ( 1658307 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @07:37PM (#57750222)

            The big thing that makes computers anemic is the web. Load a modern browser up and it's taking 500MB RAM.

            Then there's the webpages. Content hasn't changed, but they've become bloated. From a recent post of mine:

            If you're reading a news article (for example), requirements haven't really changed since print. You want some text, and a few images. Text is very bandwidth efficient, and the pictures you usually only glance at are 2.5"x1.5" and don't need to be super high res. Even if you have an 8k phone, you're scrolling by. Click to load a larger picture.

            But webpages include bundled custom fonts you don't care about, 93 tracking JavaScript plugins for social media sites and ads, 15 JavaScript frameworks where a fraction of the framework is used, 16k resolution stock images, and videos that you don't care about that start playing.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by zilym ( 3470 )

              So true regarding web bloat. The web needs a serious reboot. It wouldn't be that hard to write a new web browser that dumps all the bloat. The problem is getting all the web sites people want to visit to adopt this lightweight browser's reduced feature set. Even if you could do that, feature creep will eventually bring you right back to where we are today because people always want more...

    • You're correct. They're following the the same path taken by Windows Phone, or whatever it was called. Same for RT and 10 S. They need to spend money making sure that semi annual updates of Windows 10 do not brick PCs.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @05:58PM (#57749786)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • I thought they already did this... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It was called Windows ARM or something.

    And it failed miserably.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I had an HP Jornada mini-laptop that had Windows CE embedded on a PROM. Startup was about 8 seconds. Internet was from an 802.11b CF card.
      • So did I (the Jupiter version, 640x480 display), and I thought it was almost ideal for taking to meetings, if not for full desktop work. Just the basics, near instant wake-up, and an almost real keyboard (tab and ~/` misplaced). It's too bad that prohibitive licensing schemes and internal fighting pretty much killed WinCE. Looks like we're about to repeat the cycle.

    • It was called Windows ARM or something.

      Maybe read the linked article...

      And it failed miserably.

      Yup.

  • This likely explains some of the motivation behind the news earlier today about Edge being replaced by a Chromium based Browser, and the MS contributions to the Chromium project.

  • 2019 the year of the Microsoft Browser desktop (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BringsApples ( 3418089 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:15PM (#57748786)
    First they replace Edge with Chromium. Then they replace the OS with a browser-based system.

    I wonder if Microsoft is just going to survive off of it's cloud-based azure? They're doing LOTS of new work in that project.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hadlock ( 143607 )

      I think Azure revenue is supposed to supplement or replace major revenue streams like consumer OS and consumer office software, yes.

      Microsoft is being pretty aggressive with Azure, right now it goes 1. AWS, 2. Azure... then way behind in 3rd place is GCE/GCP, and way, way behind that is everyone else.

      For 20 years microsoft has been trying to get customers to subscribe to windows, and nobody has bought in to that idea. Finally with Azure, Microsoft gets their monthly customer subscription re

      • Azure is the best approach that Microsoft's had yet, regarding the Microsoft business model that's based on monopoly. It appears to me that they're focusing on Azure as the actual OS, and they're focusing on the PC market as a dummy-terminal market, where the only way for the browser-based PCs to "connect" to the "OS" where they can use Word, Excel, etc... Of course for a monthly fee. Fees on each "component". Fees for data. Fees for fees...

        Maybe 2019 will finally be the year of the Linux desktop.

    • I wonder if Microsoft is just going to survive off of it's cloud-based azure? They're doing LOTS of new work in that project.

      Their recent market cap is certainly not due to the roaring success of the Windows 10 October release. Based on their most recently quarterly report Azure is bringing in as much revenue and even more profit than the cash-cow of Office / Productivity apps and just shy of the OEM racket they got going with Windows.

  • Google Focused on the Chrome NOT the OS (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:39PM (#57748938) Homepage

    I don't think Microsoft understands that ChromeOS is successful because it primarily brings the World Wide Web to the user via a small platform via the Chrome browser. Most of the user requirements are fulfilled using various web pages/services not through the software bundled into the OS.

    ChromeOS is successful because of the browser integration, not because it's a new OS and I think that's where Microsoft is getting hung up.

    If Microsoft really wanted to compete, it should be getting the smallest, tightest OS they have that can still run networking, create a full featured HTML5/WebKit compliant browser (which they should have done YEARS ago) and let users log in using their Microsoft accounts. Develop the user base, understand what customers want in terms of apps (ie Office) without charging for the privilege of helping Microsoft figure out what customers want and develop a product plan based on this.

    Otherwise, it's going to be a molasses slow experience on systems that ChromeOS zips along with.

    • create a full featured HTML5/WebKit compliant browser (which they should have done YEARS ago)

      They're doing that [slashdot.org] right now.

      ChromeOS is successful, but it still falls short of a good web-centric OS. Treating multiple open processes as simply "tabs" makes it really hard to get around. If specific web apps could get their own icon on the taskbar (and could still have subtabs), a Windows derivation has a good chance at being more usable. Task-switching is painful when everything is a tab in a monolithic window.

      • Treating multiple open processes as simply "tabs" makes it really hard to get around.

        My workplace has about 30k chromebooks in use, and the "tabs" is a source of complaint for some web apps because Chrome will suspend those tabs (regardless of settings) and require a fresh login to re-connect the setting. Cookies don't work for everything, esp high-security stuff.

    • People run Microsoft Windows because it supports the application they want to run and not just the browser. The reason ChromeOS hasn't taken over the business or home market is due to lack of application support including legacy stuff.

      If Microsoft strips all the legacy stuff and bits from Windows to get a mean and lean operating system, you have a completely new product with no applications.

      • Well, it would presumably support Office365 and all its webapps. Perhaps that might not be super useful for a general purpose PC, but for a light duty workstation it could do well.

        • Re:Google Focused on the Chrome NOT the OS (Score:4, Insightful)

          by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @05:37PM (#57749660) Journal

          Well, it would presumably support Office365 and all its webapps. Perhaps that might not be super useful for a general purpose PC, but for a light duty workstation it could do well.

          Given their move to a Chromium-based browser, it could potentially also run all of the Chrome web apps. Throw in an Android container, and you'd have something equivalent to ChromeOS, except that I presume it would run the MS webapps "natively" (right now, to run Office365 on a Chromebook you have to use the Office365 Android app in the Android container, or so I read). If the set of Universal Windows Platform apps grows to be something useful, those would provide another advantage over Chromebooks.

          And, honestly, Lite probably doesn't need to actually be better than ChromeOS. If it's only as good then it may provide a way to stop the bleeding, and that's probably enough. Microsoft still has the dominant PC OS. That dominance is at risk because of the success of ChromeOS in education, which may create a generation of users who are accustomed to something else. Or maybe not; after all, Apple tried that strategy in the past and failed. But if Microsoft can get an MS-branded equivalent into the markets currently being served by Chromebooks it may be possible to mitigate the risk they pose.

          Though it's not really evidence of anything, I'm quite certain that it would be far, far easier to convince my dad to use a Microsoft browser OS than to use Chrome OS. It wouldn't surprise me if there were a bunch of other people out there who really only need an enhanced browser and would be happy to try one from Microsoft but won't stray outside of the MS fold.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by johnnys ( 592333 )
        The ONLY reason to run Windows is Windows applications. Once you remove the ability to run Windows apps from Windows, no-one will buy it because it is not what they need. They can get the same functionality from any free Linux. Any reasonable Linux distribution will provide useful analogues to Windows apps that will provide "good enough" functionality for the vast majority of users.

    • If Microsoft really wanted to compete, it should be getting the smallest, tightest OS they have that can still run networking

      Yep. Windows 10 is a solid foundation for it. It will only require 8GB of HDD space and they'll achieve this by shipping Windows along with it's app like the 3D printing app, but by removing useless things like the registry editor and the control panel.

      Remember this is a company that produced Windows 10 IoT Core for use on IoT devices and it only requires 768MB of RAM and 3GB of HDD space as an absolute minimum for the OS.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        Damn, now I'll have to expand the RAM and get an HDD for my Smart Doorbell. Frankly, I think it will look a bit goofy with that stuff hanging off the doorbell, but if that's what it takes to run MS, then sign me up!

      • I can't tell if you're joking or not. A bare install of Windows XP can be easily pared down to run in 1.2GB Hard drive (less if you need fewer features), and run in 256MB RAM without touching page file. The useful features in Windows 10 isn't actually appreciably better.

        This is also going to ignore that you can get a variety of useful Linux distros to run in that footprint or less.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by aybiss ( 876862 )

          Oh is that all? :-D

          I seem to remember being able to do a bunch of stuff with no hard drive and 64K of memory.

          Pretty sure that's all my fridge needs.

        • Being facetious. That isn't the same as joking. Windows XP is not a viable platform for an internet connected device. MS actually sell a version of Windows designed for ultra low powered IoT devices in mind. It's called Windows 10 IoT Core. 768MB of RAM, and 3GB HDD space are the actual minimum requirements.

          This is also going to ignore that you can get a variety of useful Linux distros to run in that footprint or less.

          Of course you can get it from other vendors. That isn't the point. Or rather ... that is *exactly* my point.

  • Looking at Windows 10 (Score:3)

    by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:42PM (#57748954) Homepage Journal

    Since it's all that is for sale right now...
    I wonder how much smaller it would be if you dump any backward compat with 32bit and lower (in other words, runs only on 64bit) dumped all the spyware/telemetery and associated programs needing that, ditched "apps" and the associated store, dropped down to one rendering engine (see previous article on Edge going bye bye) how much smaller and/or faster, you'd be able to make it?

    Long time ago there was a thing called 98Lite, which was basically a stripped down version of windows 98 that ran pretty darned well on even very modest hardware.

    I'd like to see something like that again...

  • For the love of God... (Score:3)

    by pablo_max ( 626328 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:55PM (#57749042)

    When will they learn? They keep trying to make these Windows lite OS versions. What happens? It confuses the hell out of everyone because they think they are buying Windows and can run their Windows programs, but instead its some crap version which cannot do anything.
    At that point, why in the hell would anyone buy it? Why not get an iPad or Android device where one can actually buy apps?
    But yet, they just keep trying and trying.
    Stick to "real" Windows MS.

  • windows RT 2 = epic fail

  • Remember when people laughed at ChromeOS? (Score:3)

    by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @04:37PM (#57749308)
    Everyone just thought it was a netbook replacement. It's come a long way.

  • it should sound a lot like Windows 10 S and RT; Windows 10 Lite only runs PWAs and UWP app

    What?

  • Windows 10 IoT Core, an OS that was designed to run as the base for IoT devices. Minimum system requirements 768MB of RAM, 400MHz 3GB disk space, and a TPM chip.

    I'm going to grab my popcorn. This should be good.

  • How is this different from Win10 Mobile, with Continuum? If they would update Edge on my phone, I would literally have this right now. Technically, some PWAs work; just not all the support is there in Edge Mobile. Otherwise, it only downloads apps fro the store; i.e. UWP. Some poor sods are still putting out security updates for W10M, so there is obviously a W10M 'team' with a manager. Maybe they just changed their name to Lite, to throw everyone into a tizzy.

  • Windows RT (Score:3)

    by GoJays ( 1793832 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @05:14PM (#57749522)
    It was already released and it was called Windows RT.

  • Now larger, heavier and less useful than any other smart phone on the market!

  • Will is be free (as in beer)? (Score:3)

    by Zaiff Urgulbunger ( 591514 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @06:52PM (#57750016)
    It needs to be free (as in beer at least) otherwise why bother. I can't understand how they can charge for Windows now. Charging for support I get, but otherwise... nope.
  • Any Microsoft OS that fails to run them will not succeed. Microsoft has to stop making "Chromy" OSes and focus on their enterprise needs.

  • Aimed at the K-12 market (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Choromebook has eaten everyone's lunch in the K-12 market. Apple is now a non-player, as is Windows. The benefits of Chromebooks are they work, they have all the apps needed, they are secure, and Google manages updates and security fixes, and cost of entry is almost nothing. The cost benefits are just too great. Windows plan in the long run is to compete in the K-12 market. Too late and won't be done as well as Google.

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