US Breaks Ground On Its First-Ever High-Speed Rail (popsci.com) 242
Construction has begun on a $12 billion high-speed rail project to connect Las Vegas and Los Angeles by the end of the decade. The project, backed by $3 billion in federal support, aims to reduce travel time to under two hours and significantly cut greenhouse gas emissions. Popular Science reports: Brightline expects its trains will depart every 40 minutes from a station outside of the Vegas strip and another one in the LA suburb of Rancho Cucamonga. When it's completed, the train will travel at 186 miles per hour, making it the fastest train in the U.S. and comparable to Japan's famous bullet trains. For context, Brightline's most recently completed train connecting parts of Florida is estimated to top out around 130 miles per hour. Both of those still fall far short of the speed achieved by the world fastest commuter train in Shanghai, which can reportedly reach a speed of 286 miles per hour. Still, the new train could complete the 218 mile trip between Sin City and a suburb of the City of Angels in just 2 hours and 10 minutes. That same trip would take about four hours by car, and that's without substantial traffic.
Once built, the trains will reportedly include onboard Wi-Fi, restrooms, and food and drinks available for purchase. Brightline hasn't provided an exact price for how much an individual train ticket will cost but has instead said they expect it to be roughly equivalent to the price of an airline flight. Brightline reportedly believes the train could attract 11 million one-way passengers annually once it's up and running. The U.S. Department of Transportation estimates the new train could cut back 400,000 tons of carbon dioxide per year and create 35,000 new jobs. Department of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg described the moment as a "major milestone in building the future of American rail." The ceremony symbolically took place on Earth Day. "Partnering with state leaders and Brightline West, we're writing a new chapter in our country's transportation story that includes thousands of union jobs, new connections to better economic opportunity, less congestion on the roads, and less pollution in the air," Buttigieg said in a statement.
Once built, the trains will reportedly include onboard Wi-Fi, restrooms, and food and drinks available for purchase. Brightline hasn't provided an exact price for how much an individual train ticket will cost but has instead said they expect it to be roughly equivalent to the price of an airline flight. Brightline reportedly believes the train could attract 11 million one-way passengers annually once it's up and running. The U.S. Department of Transportation estimates the new train could cut back 400,000 tons of carbon dioxide per year and create 35,000 new jobs. Department of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg described the moment as a "major milestone in building the future of American rail." The ceremony symbolically took place on Earth Day. "Partnering with state leaders and Brightline West, we're writing a new chapter in our country's transportation story that includes thousands of union jobs, new connections to better economic opportunity, less congestion on the roads, and less pollution in the air," Buttigieg said in a statement.
That's not LA (Score:3)
Re:That's not LA (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also disingenuous to say it will be done in a decade for $12B.
There is zero chance of that happening.
Is it legal for LV casinos to offer odds on when public projects will be done and what they will cost?
I'd take this bet at a hundred to one.
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Re:That's not LA (Score:5, Interesting)
Same here, mostly because it's the US, and the chances of high-speed rail, and a whole bunch of other obviously-the-right-thing stuff succeeding there are about the same as the chances of the metric system succeeding. They'll find some way to sabotage it or screw it up.
It's says a lot about American society that the only ones to successfully cut through he bullshit introduce the metric system is the US military which, into the bargain, is also the only entity int he US that seems to be able to get Americans of all political, racial and religious persuasions to coexist and cooperate in the same space. Perhaps they should just award the construction contract to the US Army Corps of Engineers? The worst that could happen over there is a bit of pork and cost overruns involving crap like $90k boxes of bolts but at least the thing would get built.
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Metric User: I feel bad for you imperial unit users
Imperial User: I don't think about you at all.
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It's says a lot about American society that the only ones to successfully cut through he bullshit introduce the metric system is the US military
...to an extent. Sure, the Army and Marines measure ground distances in kilometers and e.g. elevation in meters, and all services describe their weapons in terms of millimeters, but beyond that? The USAF and Navy still use nautical miles for distance, knots for speed, and feet for elevation. The navy still uses yards for range.
is also the only entity int he US that seems to be able to get Americans of all political, racial and religious persuasions to coexist and cooperate in the same space
This is more accurate, and the reason is simple: those guys only see one color, and that's green (or blue for the Navy and Air Force) and there are no atheists in foxholes.
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It's says a lot about American society that the only ones to successfully cut through he bullshit introduce the metric system is the US military
...to an extent. Sure, the Army and Marines measure ground distances in kilometers and e.g. elevation in meters, and all services describe their weapons in terms of millimeters, but beyond that? The USAF and Navy still use nautical miles for distance, knots for speed, and feet for elevation. The navy still uses yards for range.
The US Airforce still uses knots, do they also still cling to 'inches of mercury'?
is also the only entity int he US that seems to be able to get Americans of all political, racial and religious persuasions to coexist and cooperate in the same space
This is more accurate, and the reason is simple: those guys only see one color, and that's green (or blue for the Navy and Air Force) and there are no atheists in foxholes.
That is every religionist's favourite fantasy and it does not survive contact with reality. I've had a major near death experience, it did nothing at all to convince me of the existence of god.
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I think you've slightly misunderstood that quote. It doesn't say that atheists stop being atheists in foxholes and stay that way afterwords. It only claims that they start believing in someone who might keep them safe while in the foxhole but says nothing about how or if they believe later.
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It's says a lot about American society that the only ones to successfully cut through he bullshit introduce the metric system is the US military which..
That's a bit of an overstatement. Virtually all science in the US is done in metric. Huge swaths of engineering too (e.g. when specifying PC server part sizes, it's almost always in metric). I'd go further and say the only place we don't use metric is for consumer-oriented sales.
(Food sizes also seem weird to me no matter what. Why do tomatoes come in 28 ounce cans? Who decided that was a good quantity? There's probably some interesting history there.)
There's a big exception I run into all the time as a hom
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Not all metric countries are 100% metric. Possibly most have some alternate measurements that stick around for inertia reasons. Ie, UK still uses miles officially on all roads, and most commonwealth countries keep some imperial measurements around (not the British Imperial units are not identical to American Imperial units!). Never mind such things as kilderkins.
Metric is nice, but inertia and stubborness require a lot of force. Anyone in the US with even a small amount of science education will know a
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"the same as the chances of the metric system succeeding. "
Hence the speed being mentioned as 186Mph instead of the obvious 300Km/hr
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How is this first in the US? (Score:2)
Isn't there that California HSR line from LA to San Francisco? Isn't it well along under construction?
What am I missing?
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Sure, but when you're trying to promote a capitalist narrative, you've got to try to cover up anything public.
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Sure, but when you're trying to promote a capitalist narrative, you've got to try to cover up anything public.
Ahem. $3 billion in taxpayer funds and Secretary Pete being present is a capitalist narrative?
Snark aside, the California HSR project is a disaster: over budget, behind schedule, underdelivering performance, underwhelming route, and unable to attract any private funding. I don't think anyone trying to spin a credible HSR story wants anything to do with it. Didn't Brightline open a high(ish) speed train from Orlando to Miami? If I wanted to build credibility, that's what I'd call attention to.
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Didn't Brightline open a high(ish) speed train from Orlando to Miami? If I wanted to build credibility, that's what I'd call attention to.
Possibly this one?
For context, Brightline's most recently completed train connecting parts of Florida is estimated to top out around 130 miles per hour.
Re:That's not LA (Score:5, Informative)
We're currently on brand new rail built by Brightline. It's, according to the announcement just made, the first new rail in the US in over a hundred years. At some point we will turn onto existing track but right now we are going 110mph which isn't high-speed compared to Taiwan or Japan (I've taken the high speed train both places) but it's still a great piece of infrastructure. Whenever there is a Brightline discussion on slashdot, the comments are filled with negative things posted by people who have never taken Brightline.
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Bro you're on a train built on flat land with no mountain or desert terrain to compete with.
Come over here to Cali and drive the planned route. You'll be betting that track record of success is going to go right down the tubes.
Re:That's not LA (Score:5, Funny)
Totally... the only reason why countries like Japan and Switzerland are so successful with their train systems is that they are flat countries with no challenging terrain at all.
I'll take your bet! (Score:2)
It's also disingenuous to say it will be done in a decade for $12B.
There is zero chance of that happening.
Is it legal for LV casinos to offer odds on when public projects will be done and what they will cost?
I'd take this bet at a hundred to one.
I'll take your bet, especially given those odds! For one thing, Brightline has an established track record, [wikipedia.org] (no pun intended) in Florida.
Not mention, we're talking about flat, empty desert for the most part.
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Anaheim, Azusa and Cuc----amonga!
Rancho Cucamonga is another stop on the MetroLink (Score:5, Informative)
You're being disingenuous and impractical. Rancho Cucamunga is another stop [metrolinktrains.com] on the extensive MetroLink network [metrolinktrains.com] that will take you into Los Angeles and beyond. I'm sorry, but you'll have to change trains is all.
Maybe they'll do something like is common in Europe, with parallel tracks and a long platform in the middle, so all one needs to do is to exit one train, walk about 30 feet and board another.
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Rancho Cucamonga is like an hour plus drive from LA, how disingenuous for them to say "to Los Angeles" It's not even LA county
So, another "bridge to nowhere" then?
Re: That's not LA (Score:2)
To be fair Inland Empire is heavily populated not much different from LA.
Re: That's not LA (Score:2)
Yea... No.
This thing is pointless for the vast majority of the LA area. Hell I'm in west LA and I'd need to drive for 90 minutes to get to this station in light traffic.
And if there's more than one person it's cheaper to just drive. Flying out of Burbank is only like $50.
Re: That's not LA (Score:3)
I looked it up. It would take 4 hours for me to get to this station in total from the west side with an $18 fair. At that point I'll just drive straight to Vegas.
As a rail fan (Score:2, Insightful)
Living in Switzerland, I use trains a lot. They're great, no question.
Having read story after story about commuter rail and high-speed rail in the USA, and having ridden on trains there a couple of times? I cannot imagine this project succeeding. It is more likely a trough for distributing pork. The schedule will be delayed year after year, more money will be poured into the trough, and ultimately someone will take passengers from LA to Las Vegas on a mule cart.
Am I overly cynical?
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As unimpressed as I am with SBB as a company, I do have to admit that it operates on a pretty high level from a technical standpoint.
Comparing anything the US does to it might be just a tad unfair...
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Compared to DB, SBB is great.
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It is. SBB you can mostly depend on. DB? They are a joke these days, nothing else.
Re:As a rail fan (Score:5, Interesting)
Some countries just can't do infrastructure. The US and UK are prime examples.
Then you have countries like Japan, which take a long time to do infrastructure, but they do it. Maglev starting around 2030, 90% tunnels through mountains. And then you have China, which went from zero to 2/3rds of the world's high speed rail in about 15 years.
What we need to understand is why we can't build stuff. In the UK it's down to a combination of incompetence and lack of continuity. Every project is a one off and there is no steady supply of work for contractors, so even if it does get built any lessons learned tend to be forgotten.
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Do not forget that in the UK, they are now scraping the bottom of the barrel regarding political "leadership". Apparently anybody non-stupid does not want political office in the UK anymore.
Obviously, countries that cannot do infrastructure do not have a bright future.
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That's true, current UK political leadership is some of the worst we have ever seen.
But still, infrastructure projects should be able to succeed due to skilled civil servants running them. I think a major issue there is that we do so few big infrastructure projects that the civil service lacks of the skills and experience.
Re: As a rail fan (Score:2, Troll)
Entire western world can't even build enough housing right now. Let alone build high speed rail.
Re:As a rail fan (Score:5, Interesting)
What we need to understand is why we can't build stuff.
As a semi-serious answer, I think a lot of it is the current mindset both in Western politics and business. Everything has to provide short-term benefits, whether it's the politicians thinking about the next election, or the shareholders looking to next quarter's numbers. Infrastructure projects require a long-term view. Hence, they (a) don't get the attention they need and (b) are tossed around on the stormy waves of ever-changing short-term objectives.
Re:As a rail fan (Score:5, Insightful)
That's certainly part of it, although I note that other countries manage to build this stuff in the lifetime of a single parliament, and certainly within the lifetime of a single ruling party. For example, the Tories have been in power in the UK for 14 years now, and still haven't built HS2. In that time other countries would have built it and been operating it, and I mean European countries.
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What we need to understand is why we can't build stuff.
As a semi-serious answer, I think a lot of it is the current mindset both in Western politics and business. Everything has to provide short-term benefits, whether it's the politicians thinking about the next election, or the shareholders looking to next quarter's numbers. Infrastructure projects require a long-term view. Hence, they (a) don't get the attention they need and (b) are tossed around on the stormy waves of ever-changing short-term objectives.
That's definitely part of it.
There's an interesting debate on public access around here every few weeks where they bring in business leaders, scientists or science teachers, religious leaders, and small business owners to discuss various topics. The last few have broken down into the same discussion about how nobody in the human race now seems to be capable of long-term focus. Things brought up include the cathedrals of Europe, projects that were designed by people that knew they themselves, their children,
Understanding why the US (or UK) can't build stuff (Score:2)
Mainly the legal system protecting land owners.
US and UK have a similar legal system that is different from almost everywhere else in the world.
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There is certainly an element of that in the UK, but even after they resolved it there were further issues.
For example, to protect the highly overrated "green belt", much of the High Speed 2 line was going to be underground. The tunnels needed air vents to the surface, but some local politicians insisted that they be disguised as barns using local materials like stone. The buildings themselves cost about 3 million, seemingly not huge in the scheme of things, but it also delayed the project and was one of a
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People have looked long and hard at why the USA has so much trouble building infrastructure. The two big reasons:
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Interesting, thanks. In Japan they had some legal issues with the new maglev line. First there was a big fight over the route it would take, because several smaller towns wanted stops that would massively boost their economies. Even without a stop, the route dictated where the construction would be, sure to be a benefit to local businesses.
They also had some issues with potential noise, which is partly why most of it is in tunnels.
Not all of it is resolved, but construction has already started anyway.
Seems
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Some countries just can't do infrastructure. The US and UK are prime examples.
The US can do infrastructure just fine. What it can't do is ape a European rail model that is unworkable in the US. The United States, geographically and culturally, is as different from Europe as it is from Japan. It's a huge, wide-open area with large spaces between major metro areas outside of a small cluster in the Northeast US. Very unlike Japan and Europe in that regard. The train romanticists simply refuse to accept reality on that.
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Shouldn't wide open areas make it even more suitable for trains? High speed rail is ideal for long distance cross-country. It is faster than flying for anything under about a 5 hour flight, sometimes more if the airport has traffic issues etc.
I think the bigger issue is that so much of the US is built around cars. But rail can help there too. In Japan they often build a new railway line in conjunction with new towns along it. They are ideal for commuters and people who want access to big cities without livi
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My understanding is that European High Speed Rail goes about 200mph (320kmh), and the Japanese bullet trains might go 220 on long straight stretches. The US has had rail service over 150mph (240kmh) for decades, so I don't know why every news story is about "the first high speed rail" in the US.
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Yeah technically it'll be the second one. The NY - Philly line is the only one at >150mph in the USA.
But that said this would be the fastest one.
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"The NY - Philly line is the only one at >150mph in the USA"
There are only a few tiny segments between New York and Philadelphia classed at 150mph, and none greater.
The longest 150mph segments are actually in Rhode Island and Massachusetts.
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CO2 (Score:2)
cut back 400,000 tons of carbon dioxide per year
How many tons of CO2 will it take to construct this railway? How many years to break even?
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I've heard there are long lines at the recharging stations between LA and Las Vegas on big weekends. Obviously that's not great in itself, but it shows that 400,000 tons number is set to shrink. Of course you'll still never beat a train for efficiency in moving a bunch of people along the same route at the same
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Indeed. Rail done well amortizes over decades and centuries. Obviously, short-term thinkers do not need to apply. Same as with all infrastructure, really.
Can you get anything right? (Score:3)
You have to drive them horizontally. Not vertically.
Of course you're breaking ground if you slam a high speed train right into it. Jeesh.
Re: Can you get anything right? (Score:2)
The author of the article, Mack Degeurin, is a poor writer. He is known for junk articles on Gizmodo.
Not the first to break ground (Score:5, Informative)
That was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
If it was completed in the proposed time, it would be the first to become operational.
Re: Not the first to break ground (Score:2)
Except that Acela exists as well, making this not the first operational one eitherâ¦
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Tell us about it when it completes (Score:2)
With the history of various US rail projects delaying and abandoned, I think we can wait until this one actually completes to get excited about.
By the time this one completes (if it does), the term "high-speed rail" elsewhere in the world could already have been redefined to something above 200 mph (and hence excluding this one).
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Lies (Score:2)
The author of this article, Mack Degeurin, cannot get his facts right, nor can he spell.
There are other high speed rail systems already in the US, Acela being one of them.
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"Acela being one of them"
Ha, comedy gold!
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Bare minimum in EU (Score:2)
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Most visitors are going to the strip, which has the monorail, or the football stadium.
The monorail was placed off the strip for the benefit of the MGM Grand and Ballyâ(TM)s. It was designed to be worthless to everyone else, bypassing other properties. Then it was extended to go to the Flamingo and near Harrahâ(TM)s and Imperial Palace. From everywhere else it's a substantial distance away. By the time you've gotten to it, you could have walked most of the way to your destination, unless you're going from one end to the other. If they had put it over the strip, it would have really
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At least I think we can all see the monorail does have decent ridership, and the extra-wide sidewalks of the strip are relatively crowded, much moreso than typical in the US
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How do they get around when they fly there?
There's your answer.
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No you haven't. 300km/h service only started in the 1990s with TGV-R, etc.
One way? (Score:5, Funny)
I guess what happens in Vegas really does stay in Vegas!
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What about Acela (Score:2)
Acela has been around since 2000. Acela trains are the fastest in the Americas, reaching 150 miles per hour (240 km/h) (qualifying as high-speed rail), but only over 49.9 miles (80.3 km) of the 457-mile (735 km) route. (source: wikipedia)
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Acela has been around since 2000. Acela trains are the fastest in the Americas, reaching 150 miles per hour (240 km/h) (qualifying as high-speed rail), but only over 49.9 miles (80.3 km) of the 457-mile (735 km) route
That's 9.16% of the route. It's less than 1/10 high speed rail!
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tax dollars at work (Score:2)
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It's tax dollars at work to support not needing to build a wider highway, not just now but also in the future. Traffic on the route from LA to LV can literally double the time it takes to get there, while in the very best case it takes about 3 hours.
This is the same argument for the stalled California HSR project. It is a good and reasonable argument. We equate the ability to travel with freedom. Making travel more possible while also reducing transportation-related pollution is a good use of tax money. Unf
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yes but, the fares won't cover the cost, we end up paying for it.
Sure, but roads are the same in that regard — we pay for them, too. But they are a lot less efficient and they lead to a lot more pollution, and arguably just as importantly they just get clogged up with more cars in short order and then we've essentially spent that money to hasten our own destruction and make more people sit in traffic longer.
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Double Edged Sword (Score:2)
First, I hope it works and becomes a model that this kind of public transportation should continue to be built out.
Second, it's irresponsible to continue to promote and encourage large groups of people to live and play in the desert southwest of the U.S, especially with tax dollars. They have serious problems with water and no one really seems to care to solve the real underlying issues, historic water mismanagement and now too many people.
What a fuckup of a project from the get-go (Score:2)
They claim 200+ MPH. There might be maybe one stretch where they'll achieve that speed. I was discussing this last night in my geologist group. Anyone that's done driving up and down the 15 knows that there are so many turns barely sharp enough and spaced far enough apart that you aren't ever going to maintain much over 80MPH consistently, especially if you're following the Interstate 100%. If you think you're going through the Cajon Pass at 200 MPH you're fucking suicidal.
I even mapped the route after the [imgur.com]
for gambling and prostitutes (Score:2)
some wrong arithmetic there (Score:3)
"...the new train could complete the 218 mile trip between Sin City and a suburb of the City of Angels in just 2 hours and 10 minutes..." huh? unless they mean 1 hour and 10 minutes...
Re: For those who support this, could you please s (Score:2)
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"So why shouldn't the US be able to do it now?"
Why? "Regulation Nation." There's way too many people that have to be asked, "Mother may I?" Starting with environmental impact statements and going from there, it is delay, delay, delay. Each delay is expensive. Repeal 90% of the regulations, and you can then maybe get things done.
Regulation may play a part, but I think the bigger thing is a lot of these types of projects end up being money grabs by the supposed companies involved, and then somewhere along the line somebody realizes no actual work is being done yet money just keeps disappearing and the plug gets pulled. For some reason, these huge construction projects on infrastructure are always set up in a way where somebody can make bank without doing any actual work, and we keep repeating the same mistake over and over and over
Re:Why.... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's really more just about cutting back on the pollution caused by all the jets and cars that would otherwise be making the journey. Trains are comparatively quite efficient.
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I've ridden Amtrack a few times and had to have my baggage x-rayed and my ticket checked while walking thru a metal detector. It was nothing like at the airport. The worst was a 15 minute line, and that was not because of the TSA, it was because of delayed departures causing crowding. Plus I did not have to walk a mile to my gate after going thru
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And how often, exactly, does that happen compared to distance travelled?
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"More often than you think"
17 incidents resulting in 17 fatalities.
Only ONE high speed derailment resulting in fatalities, and that was during testing of a new high-speed line not during regular service.
It is possible that could more "more thank you think" to someone, but unlikely.
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1. You have no clue what I think, stop assuming you asshole.
2. No, it is not.
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https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infogr... [statcdn.com]
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Not sure how accurate that is given is misses out the UK which has approx 700-800 miles of high speed and tgv speed lines.
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What the heck are ya'll talking about? Did that happen?
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Brightline is corporate welfare [nbcnews.com]. It's the transfer of public money to private profits.
The money would have been better spent on Amtrak.
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You should know, Thunderf00t is a jackass. So is the nonsense he spreads about The Boring Company and SpaceX.
Some YouTube videos to hopefully undo some of his FUD and lies.
https://www.youtube.com/result... [youtube.com]
And a personal favorite, "Thunderf00t Vs Elon Musk: Why Smart People say the Dumbest Things"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Thunderf00t is a jackass, and I haven't seen the specific claims made in his video, but The Boring Company is actually a joke.
The tunnel is completely normal, nothing special about it at all. No magic low cost boring machine or special construction techniques. The Chinese dig them much, much faster for their metro systems.
The idea of using cars instead of trains is also dumb. Worse capacity, a lot more staff because Full Self Driving doesn't work even in a carefully controlled environment with one single fi
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The Chinese do things really fast, helps when the rule of law is an afterthought.
Anyway, our cities are overregulated AF, I'll give you that. Musk has publicly spoken about how ridiculously slow getting anything done has been. Probably almost wants him want to murder a few million Uyghurs just out of frustration.