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Wine Software

WINE 991031 (Hallowine) Released 283

Posted by Roblimo from the software-evolution-in-action dept.
Egonis Similaris writes " WINE 991031 (Hallowine) has been released." My main personal WINE wish is to use it to run Quickbooks. Has anyone else gotten QB to work reliably under WINE?
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WINE 991031 (Hallowine) Released More

WINE 991031 (Hallowine) Released

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  • I use VNC to administrate my home firewall machine... works wonderfully.

    Only one (small, insignificant to some) caveat:

    Watch your bandwidth when using VNC. The Linux client has some bandwidth control, but no such control was coded into the Windows version. When you have the Windows client up, it can be a real hog.

    I'm hoping to hack some changes into their client code for Windows when I get some time. My wife is a Windows user, and when she's controlling the connection on the firewall from her machine the network takes a distinct hit.

  • AOL uses it's own proprietary communications protocol, Based on it's proprietary network. (I guess, I can't see any other reason for them to do this). That's why you have things like 'aol network interface' under windows, to allow you to connect to the net without using WAOL.

    I heard that AOL was going to switch there interface at some point in the future, but until then, don't expect to be able to get on the net. Even if you can get the AOL shell up (witch requires IE4, I believe), you still won't be able to get the rest of the box connected to the net, unless there's a linux driver out.

    You should really try to get your parents to drop AOL....

    --
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Actually, they released a patch that allows WABI to run on > 256 color displays. It will only use 256 colors, but it can cope with 16 and 32 bit displays.

    They also released a patch that allows sound to work. I can now get the cheesy Win 3.1 startup sound. Ah! The nostalgia! (or is that nausea?)
  • LICQ has message history. Right click on the person's nick and click on "history".

    Ian Zink
  • Because I like the graphics :-)

    --
    Child: Mommy, where do .sig files go when they die?
    Mother: HELL! Straight to hell!
    I've never been the same since.

  • Hes' correct however. Maybe you should think before YOU post.
  • Hell yeah..... Get NZ and then Make dummie files of all the .dll (except Javai.dll) to get rid of that damn ad banner.
  • The epitome of resource managing, ship building, space exploring, empire games. And it's basically a Win3.11 app, so it's ALWAYS worked under Wine!

    Yay for Stars! Yay for Wine!
  • I have no idea why OS/2. I work for a leasing company, and will not be the fellow actually using it. From the paperwork, it looks like they'll be high-capacity intranet/workgroup servers. The company is simultaneously early-returning the six NT boxen we leased them last year, so draw your own conclusion.
  • Hell yeah..... Get NZ and then Make dummie files of all the .dll (except Javai.dll) to get rid of that damn ad banner. NetZero download
  • Does WINE actually stand for anything, i.e. WINdows Emulator? I've never seen any mention of this on the web site. If not, what does the name come from?
  • I have not tried the latest version of Eudora with Wine. The last time it wanted all sorts of MFC dlls. I will have to try it again.

    I have tried to get Qualcomm to do a Linux port. No answer yet. The current version of Eudora is VERY nice. (The multi-threading is sweet!) This is something I would pay for all over again. Anything to get away from the great beast of Redmond.
  • ... but Adobe Pagemill works pretty well with WINE. It has allowed me to use Windows less and less. Also on a side note, has anyone gotten the Windows SETI@home client to work with WINE? It will connect, but it freezes at the fast fourier transform. Hmm. Well anyway. WINE is a magnificent piece of software. You should all go snag the latest version.

    --
    Child: Mommy, where do .sig files go when they die?
    Mother: HELL! Straight to hell!
    I've never been the same since.

  • I haven't tried quickbooks under wine, but I run it just fine and dandy with VMware [vmware.com].
    Joseph Elwell.
  • What the heck? It _is_ true, stop saying it isn't!
  • Windows 95/98 can run with the windows 3.1 interface

    Change the line "shell=Explorer.exe" in the C:\windows\system.ini file, to "shell=progman.exe". You'll need to make all those '.grp's again though


    --
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • I second that notion. Actually, I'd settle for plain ol Quicken. That's about the only reason I boot up Winders any more. Anybody know if it works w/ WINE? If so, I know what I'm doing tonight.
  • It looks like www.netledger.com is a good alternate to QuickBooks. It even as an option to upload your QB datafile and populate your database on their server.
    BTW, I tried uploading my file *.qbb and it failed saying that it expects *.qbw.

    Unfortunately its not free. They charge $4.95/month.

    Has anyone tried it ?

  • Re:What does WINE stand for? (Score:3)

    by SgtPepper ( 5548 ) on Tuesday November 02, 1999 @09:51AM (#1568553)
    WINE Is Not an Emulator

    Because everythings native it doesn't really EMULATE anything, it REPLACES or DUPLICATES
  • It's a recursive acronym: WINE Is Not an Emulator.

    It'll be there, somewhere, on their website, as that's where I first found out what it meant.

  • Seems that the last thing I heard about Wine is that it had really kinda been taken under Corel's wing (with Corel's paid developers) and was working up to being a devel environment. I'm not too sure how many people remember this, but I'm curious to know what the heck is happening with all of this.

    1) I have never found a decent use for wine. I don't really use the prod apps for Win9x, and if I want to play games, it's best to go native.
    2) Corel made it sound like the wine project was going the route of making it easier to greate cross-platform code for Windows and Linux. Was this the "entire" project? Or was this just the end they were working on? Is the "main" project still emulation while Corel runs a splinter project concerned with creating an IDE and backing libs??

    What Corel was gamming on to sounded interesting, but there is definately room for both. I noticed a few posts mentioned that app support seemed to be getting worse lately. Is this the result of the "new direction", or what?

    The final possibility is that I read a press release with very little basis in reality. (as with most press releases.)

    So I'm looking for some of you "Wineeies" to come on down and school me up on the wine skinny.

    Muchas Gracias!
    ~Jason Maggard
    "If we ban hemp due to it's relationship to marajuana, we should ban grapes due to their relationship to wine."
  • Actually, WINE stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator (God I love recursive acronyms!). It is called this because it actually does not emulate, or mimic, the Windows API architecture, it actually rebuilds it. A very fascinating concept. Hope this helps.

    Charlie

    --
    Child: Mommy, where do .sig files go when they die?
    Mother: HELL! Straight to hell!
    I've never been the same since.

  • PPP (Score:1)

    by delmoi ( 26744 )
    Well, if AOL is the 'macintosh' of the ISP world, then a PPP link would be the "Windows98", in otherwords, just as easy. I've setup several dialup networking scripts without entering *any* information other then the username, password, and phonenumber. I was getting free internet for quite a while with a L/P of 'test/test'. I didn't even know what ISP I was using (Well I did, but it didn't matter)
    --
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"

  • IIRC, it is like all well-named things, and is a recursive acronym:
    WINE Is Not an Emulator.

  • borrow a small hd....
    unplug linux-drive
    plug in small hd...

    Install winblows
    unplug small hd re-plug as slave
    plug back in linux-drive

    boot
    copy necessary /windows/system files etc. etc
    to directory on linux drive...
    edit wine.conf
    format windoze off of small hd (don't wanna contaminate anything)
    chuck small drive back into parts box

  • Hmmn Joe Good point. I'm toying with the idea of getting Wine OR Vmware. To my simple mind ;), Vmware sounds cleaner, and comments like the one you just made about Quickbooks, seems to confirm that
  • AFAIK, nothing needs to know the Wine version number except the user. Is your brain Y2K compliant, or will you believe that Wine 00xxxx is a hundred years old?
  • Well, most viruses are hard-coded to windows, I would think, and wouldn't work without the apropriate filestructure.

    On the otherhand, it would be posible for a virus writer to target Wine along with 9x and NT if they really wanted.... (of course, you still have to deal with per-user security on linux, A virus couldn't kill linux unless it ran as root)
    --
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Why use SETI?
    I thought, though I am often mistaken, that SETI was an inefficient use of processor time, and that they were sending out already-hashed-over data again because people were working through the data faster than they could collect it. Anybody know the deal?
  • Have you tried gqview? It is a nice ACDSee-like application.
  • Team Fortress Classic is an add-on to HL, and uses the HL engine... It doesn't make much sense to reccommend a game because the engine it uses sucks.. :) Of course, maybe you mean Team Fortress, which uses the Quake 1 engine. Naah, that couldn't be it. WHo would call the HL engine obsolete in the face of Quake Classic? :) HL is da bomb. Single Player. Not multiplayer. However, TFC more than makes up for this, being one of the best multiplayer games for a first person shooter ever. Of course, UT's almost out, so Im sure Ill have to rethink that. Toodles
  • Hmm. I haven't heard much about that. I've heard that distributed.net was coming out with some kind of thing akin to the SETI@home project. I haven't checked into it though.

    --
    Child: Mommy, where do .sig files go when they die?
    Mother: HELL! Straight to hell!
    I've never been the same since.

  • What version of word/excel have you tried ? I can't get them to work ..
  • yeah. I have to agree that it was too much work to compile from src (esp on linux...), I felt like I should be getting paid...

    ... anyway once it was running it looks pretty nice, but I'd like to feel that there was significant momentum behind it before I dump all of my financial data into it.

    ... like the gtk stuff... the could ditch a lot of crud with gtk/gnome bindings, what are they waiting for? gtk1.3? gnome2.0? and a lot of the nonstandard stuff that it requires to compile doesn't seem to be well maintained either.

    Would be easier to start from scratch and write gnome-cash?

    maybe they should change the name to PatheticCash?

    gnucash: bootstrap file is /usr/local/share/gnucash/scm/bootstrap.scm
    (Register #(Register foo 50-foo boolean foo something # # #f #f #f #f))

  • Re:Plausible Deniability: Denied! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Please Note: I'm only posting this as a reply to this partcular message because it has a mission web site attached, and is thus likely to generate a large response.

    Everyone, please, Please PLEASE be nice when you talk to Intuit, or any other commercial (or non-commercial) manufacturer. In this particular case, remember a couple of things:

    • Intuit is in business to make money, not software.

    • The phone rep who quoted the "two calls" figure was probably just making this up, or at the very best, basing this number on their own personal recollections.

    • (OK, so more than a couple of things) We tend to exaggerate both large and small events ourselves. The CSR could have been expressing that he/she receives very few requests for a Linux version when compared to the volume of calls from PAYING CUSTOMERS who can't seem to print, or something.

    Now, I know that some of us actually are paying customers. I myself have asked for a Linux version of both Quickbooks and Quicken via both Intuit's suggestion form, and during telephone calls.

    Everyone just remember: BE POLITE!!

  • I got it to work under Office 97 RH 6.1 I used the RPM's.. ChiefArcher
  • I just signed a PO for five IBM servers with brand spanking new copies of IBM OS/2 Warp on them from the factory. IBM still supports it!
  • I got ICQ 99a working under Wine 990925 or some release similar using the '-winver win95' argument. I got it to start up and everything. I could look at the history and mess around, but ICQ would not connect to the server. It seems like ICQ99a at least is getting close to working stages, just need to get it to connect to the server. Before I tried ICQ99a, however, I made sure that before I closed ICQ down in Windows for the last time I made sure it wasn't docked on the side (I don't think Wine implements that yet) and rather than being anything on the task bar not working I think the problem was more that it might have been docked on the side of the screen.

  • Re:Ecco Pro V4? Novel Informs? ACDSee? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ACDSee runs fine except when you are looking at the thumbnails the file names are over the images instead of below them. and I don't mean on top of the image I mean ON them. Other then that I was playing with it for about 30 minutes yesterday using the latest wine and couldn't find anything else wrong. I was impressed. The only good alternative to ACDSee is http://www.compupic.com/ which has a linux version available and it's very nice.
  • "Linux is obsolete."
    -- Andy Tanenbaum

    'Nuff said
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."

  • What Corel's Doing (Score:4)

    by Ian Schmidt ( 6899 ) on Tuesday November 02, 1999 @04:28PM (#1568598)
    Wine has always been 2 projects in one. The actual Windows API reimplementation (WineLib) and a binary loader (Wine, or "the emulator part" as some people refer to it) which loads windows EXE and DLL files and hooks them up with the API stuff in WineLib. The binary loader itself is basically small and bugless - .EXE files are typically a lot less sophisticated than Unix ELF binaries and shared libraries so there's not much to do there in the first place.

    So, Corel has put a lot of work into the Windows reimplementation end of things, reorganizing Wine's COM support and header files so you can now compile MFC (which contains a fair amount of MS "insider coding", although luckily you get the source with MSVC++) under WineLib. They also paid Cygnus to do the anonymous struct and union patches which everyone now gets to enjoy in GCC 2.95.2. As a result of this work they now have a common codebase between Windows and Linux for their office applications.

    The best part is they've been willing to do all this work to the specs of Wine's current "Linus", Alexandre Julliard. So wine's gotten a ton of good professional work on stuff the regular spare-time developers would have taken much longer on. We now have a solid infrastructure for Win32 threading, impressive OLE/COM support, a much more debugged user interface, and lots of common controls.

    As a result it's almost more accurate to say Corel was under Wine's wing - they've had patches rejected due to conflicts with Alexandre's architectural vision, and promptly resubmitted them with everything fixed. I wish all companies involved in open source were that way :)

    Anyway, the first stage of that involvement's coming to a close. Corel naturally won't tell us their actual progress with their apps, but they are known to be working on an installer now and their recent patches have been for progressively more obscure bugs. Incidentally, their work has made a lot of other applications work much better too. ModPlug Tracker, a popular Windows tracker-style music application, now works with nary a glitch on Wine. Less than 6 months ago it was unstable and full of graphical glitches.

    And as far as claims that app support is getting worse, that's generally false. As with any large project there are frequently bugs that break certain apps, and sometimes apps work accidentally due to combinations of bugs and stop when that bug is fixed. Most people track the "official" releases instead of CVS so something breaks and they don't see that it's fixed again the next day in CVS and end up with the wrong impression :)

    -Ian, wine-devel but not speaking for 'em.
  • As a Tech Rep for Quickbooks, I know that the "company line" is that it only works under Windows and Mac. (Though some have gotten it to work under a Linux/Samba Network (but that took some imagination))
    I have not personally tried to work Quickbooks under any other platform, including WINE, but I DO know that there is a plan in the works for later versions of the program (Quicken also) to work under a Linux Kernel.

    Stay tuned for more details.
    *Carlos: Exit Stage Right*

    "Geeks, Where would you be without them?"

  • Unlike WINE, Project Odin actually converts the Windows app into a native OS/2 application. The EXE and DLL's are modified so that OS/2 can load them, and a Win32 equivalent of the DLL's is provided. Odin also has a very cool feature where it intercepts the loader and actually convers a Windows EXE/DLL into an OS/2 EXE/DLL on the fly. This lets you run your Windows apps under OS/2 in a truly seamless fashion.

    Actually, that's exactly what WINE does. Remember: Wine Is Not an Emulator, it just converts winxx executables to ELF, then links it into winelib. That's why you can't run wine on other platforms besides the x86.
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."
  • I really want to get this to work sice Age of Empires wants a 8 bit depth screen when using wine under Linux. However, when I try your trick, this is what I get:

    server is already active for display 0

    Any ideas how to get around this? I'm running XFree86 3.3.5 Thanks

  • Wine will never be a complete 100% compatible implementation of the windows API. Even microsoft cannot implement a 100% compatible implementation of the win 3.x api in 95 or 98. Their answer to compatibility problems is naturally that we should upgrade to the win32 version of program X. Wine will never achieve 100% compatibility, instead what we will see are windows applications that are designed to run on wine as well as win9x/2000. All wine has to do is get 98% or more of the way there and achieve a reasonable market share. Of course we will also see microsoft intentionally breaking their products so that they will not run on wine. Which come to think of it may actually help wine since it would be like shining a spotlight on incompatibilities and creating the need to resolve them. Who knows, if that happens wine may be more compatible than windows, or at least more stable.
  • Although I am not the original poster who said that he/she got Excel and Word running on Wine, I managed to do the same. I have a Office97 installation disk collecting dust on my bookshelf and decided to give it a try. The installer cocks up, stating that it can't read certain files on the CD-ROM, but if I run Excel straight from the disk it runs. I managed to put a bar-chart in it. Loading and saving documents doesn't work however. The same applies to Word. This was all done on a machine which has never been touched by a Windoze installation.
  • Ah, you mean those pretty graphics that reduce unit processing by 50%? I'll stick with my Linux client, thanks very much ;)
  • Did you have 'Doze native DLLs on the box? Or use Wine's open source replacements?

  • ICQ?! (Score:1)

    by cduffy ( 652 )
    I've seen more Linux ICQ clients than... well, nevermind. Nonetheless, there are a lot -- many of which are far better than kicq. I personally use gtkicq at the moment, but will be switching to Jabber (which supports ICQ, AIM, IRC and more to come, all at the same time, or, when using its own protocol, actually has some excuse for security -- well, this may still be on the drawing board, but the release will, and an excuse for security's far more than ICQ and AIM have right now).

    As for Intuit's stuff, the 16-bit versions should work pretty well under WINE -- and I can personally vouch for the fidelity of Minesweeper's performance.
  • There's no need to. It'll just roll over to 00xxxx, and when 2099 comes along, it will either be obsolete, or well-developed enough to use x.x.x version numbers.
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."
  • Has anyone checked this out? How is it related to the things Corel is doing?

    http://www.codeweavers.com/twine/index.shtml
  • I last tried WINE in May, and tried installing several apps. They ALL failed during the installation process, with the exception of a talking dictionary program (which did work to a certain extent). I tried Visual Age/Java, Hasbro's Risk, Stardock's Entrepreneur, an encyclopedia, a couple shareware games, MS Office 4.3, and I think a couple other things.

    I have a 100% Microsoft free system and intend to keep it that way. But it seems like most people only get things to work when they have a 'Doze partition and install on that end. When are the Wine folks going to concentrate on getting installers working? If installers don't work, how is the real thing supposed to work?

    Hopefully progress has been made in that area recently. But I don't intend to try Wine again until I get a new computer with XFree 4, hopefully in January...
  • Of course it is:
    Go to google.com and type in

    more evil than satan

    :)
  • Eudora is probably the best email client I have ever used. I love the organization of the features and it is nice and speedy. Fortunately the damn thing isn't full of bloatware like Outlook; it just does what it does well: email.

    If Qualcomm decided to make Eudora for Linux, I am sure I am not the only one who would run out and buy it. Perhaps we need some /. action to alert them to the fact that many of us would use Eudora at home and at the office if it was available.

  • In the last two upgrades, fonts have improved dramatically, and I can run Word and Excel (although printing is still a bit sticky).


    Which versions of Word and Excel can you run? Office 97 and Office 2000 require Internet Explorer to be installed, and the licensing terms for IE try to stop you running it on any platform other than Windows. This fits in with Microsoft's view that IE is part of the operating system, but it's also a way of effectively tying Office to Windows.



    Are the Wine people working on a replacement for the DLLs from Internet Explorer, so that we can run all the MS and non-MS applications that depend on it?

  • In my personal experience with wine, the success of wine is greatly dependant upon native window files, dll's mostly.

    Not so true any more. It's possible to run useful applications on a 100% Microsoft Free(tm) system.

  • You keep on saying that. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    • With apologies to Inigo M.
  • Thanks! Works perfectly!!
  • Well yea, and ICQ :) if I could get those two working right (sorry but kicq is still crap) I'd say goodbye to windows forever, welll after a found a good minesweeper clone :)
  • Programs that work with wine [linpro.no] says, "In particular, 16-bit versions of Word, Excel and Quicken do work well enough with Wine for many purposes, although they are by no means flawless."

    And this page is dated Quarter 2 1996 - so I imagine Quicken works a whole lot better now.
    The official list of apps that work is at WineHQ [winehq.com]
    Joseph Elwell.
  • No. For a number of reasons:
    • VMWare is not open-source, and it's not even free as in $0.
    • VMWare actually emulates the hardware, making it slower. If we ever get a really working wine, it'll run faster than VMWare.
    • VMWare requireS Windoze to run. I don't want to support Microsoft by buying a copy of Windoze to run within VMWare
  • Anyone had any success running Eudora with WINE?
  • My SO hates the Windows 95 interface, can't find any drivers for NT for her old hardware, and can't run Windows 3.1 natively on the new motherboard she's got. No graphics driver.

    I'm trying to convince her to switch to Linux, as it'll run -much- better, has drivers for ALL her hardware, and I suspect would be more intuitive for her. She's VERY reluctant to touch it, though, if it won't run her sofware, which is largely Windows 3.1-based.

    I've looked through the software database, but it's so out-of-date, they might as well have a GIF of a question mark there, instead. But, if WINE is at (or even close to) the point of being usable, and can run banking Windows 3.1 software and Eudora, then I -may- be able to convince her to switch.

  • ...is the interface to the database of working applications on their web page. There is no rhyme or reason to the order of the entries.
  • any version of delphi that is... or am i hoping for too much!
  • It's a recursive acronym: WINE Is Not an Emulator.
    This is just FUD put out by microsoft. The fact that the cunning bastards made the acronym recursive shows how desperate they were to hide the truth: that WINE is an acronym coined by the DOJ that stands for Windows Is Not Explorer.

    Proof that WINE doesn't emulate Windows can be seen in the fact that every microsoft program you run doesn't install IE and reassociate jpegs therewith.
  • ...it worked. Sort of. That is to say, you could load the program and go through some basic functions, but I certainly wouldn't try to print; Some of the layout was incorrect also.

    However, this was back around June or so, and WINE's made fantastic progress since then (but then again, when isn't it making fantastic progress?). If the Win32 version doesn't work, btw, try the 16-bit one; That often helps (it certainly did with Quicken).

    [Btw, at the time that I'm posting it, this isn't redundant. Should it become so later, I'd appretiate not being moderated down on that regard].
  • *RUNS SCREAMING INTO THE NIGHT*

    SO smarty pants. What DOES it stand for HM HM!!! TELL ME WHY DON'T YOU! hehehe I feel better now.

    Maby it stands for When Its Neat to Eat.

    TOP TEN LIST of things WINE could stand for.

    10. Where Is Nuke Exploding
    9. Whats In Norms Email
    8. Windows Is Normally Exploding
    7. Windows Is Not Evolving
    6. Why Is Norm Everlasting
    5. Who is Norm Everybody?
    4. What Is miNe problEm.
    3. WINdows crashEd
    2. WINdows cashEd
    And the number one..possible choice of things WINE could stand for
    1... Wine Is Not an Emulator
  • Twin is another attempt to make windows libraries. It is backed by a company, but GPL'd.

    Twine is an attempt to mix twin & wine. However, since the licenses are different, it has to use the less-free license (GPL).

    I think this is the first time I've heard of it since the announcement of twine; I can't say for certain whether it still exists, or ever would have been possible.


    hawk

  • Wine = What I Never Execute. (Score:3)

    by cybrthng ( 22291 ) on Tuesday November 02, 1999 @10:21AM (#1568655) Homepage Journal
    Wine is a great idea, but for the years its been in the running, and the changes its evolved through i don't see it ever really completing.

    There was another package that was anounced on slashdot a few weeks ago about a "winelib" type programming package that is coming so people can just cross compile.. dunno if we will see that..

    I get solitaire to run, i've had other programs run, but once they work *DON'T* upgrade or make any changes, or else it may blow up.

    I'd like to see wine start from square one. They have plenty of code to scavange through, they have a HUGE amount of the API documented and coded, but the project has evolved into such a beast that it limits out any growth in a direction that wasn't planned for a few years back.

    Make a 1.0 milestone, say in 1.0 we will support Windows 3.1 apps, in 1.1 we will support win32, in 2.0 we will support Win95, in 3.0 we will support NT or whatever it may be.. but make it work for one layer, produce a 1.0 binary, get it in use, get the quirks resolved, have the foundation, learn from your mistakes, if it needs some re-work, re-work it, and then evolve it on up (only after feature locks, and then feature planning)

  • I was using Quickbooks under WINE with limited success. I couldn't print at all and some reports would cause it to crash. But entering and reviewing invoices was okay. This was with a April'ish version of WINE.
  • No, your thinking about GNU=(G)NU is (N)ot (U)nix
    LINUX simply is a take off from the name Linus and the word Unix.. Linus accually originally called it something based on minux.. though I forget, but the ftp site owners choose to call the directory it was stored in LINUX and the name sticked. Though it is sorta a backrym (an acronym created after the fact) like BASIC which was just indented to be a "Basic" programming language.. after the fact people said.. hmmmmm. that must stand for something and came up with some acronym.. of which I've currently blocked from memory, but I'm sure you could look up :)

  • Re:Wine = What I Never Execute. (Score:3)

    by Ed Avis ( 5917 ) <ed@membled.com> on Wednesday November 03, 1999 @07:25AM (#1568669) Homepage
    I'm running Word and Excel 97 SR-2. Now, I do have a complete Win98 install on the old DOS partition, including IE4, so perhaps if IE is required, they're just relying on the one that's installed over there? (I might add, IE4 almost works; I can start to view simple web pages before it kicks me to the debugger.)

    Technically, you are breaking the licence agreement for bgIE; it says that you may run it only on Windows. Whether this is actually illegal is another matter, especially as you actually own a Win98 licence (or I expect you do :-). There was a rather inconclusive discussion [slashdot.org] about a similar topic in an earlier story.

    But I wasn't aware that Word and Excel 97 required IE (don't know about 2000). I'm sure they automatically install it given half the chance, though (like most other MS products).

    Office 97 requires IE3 or later. I've recently tried running it on an IE-less Win98 system (Revenge of Mozilla [silverlink.net] is excellent), and while apps loaded after complaining about DLLs, you couldn't do anything (like open a file) without the thing breaking. Presumably the new file open dialogue box is part of IE. After I installed IE3 things worked.

  • Wine hmm

    great piece of reverse engineering those actualy comitting code can brag for the rest of their lives those that moan shall ....

    (bug reporting involes actualy finding out exactly whats wrong)

    >>>ALOT of the software that runs on windows is only there because of the market demanded it now its their to stay

    >>>Groupware big word but LOTUS ownes this and the server runs on linux and solaris and AS400 and whatever BUT the client still has way to many win32 Hooks in it for them to easily port it
    (WAKE UP I WILL PAY LOADS OF MONEY FOR IT LOTUS)

    these are all I use windows for

    regards

    john


    a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
  • I called Intuit just now, she said that they cannot say if there is a native Linux version
    planned.

    She did say that I was only the SECOND PERSON to
    ask for it.

    Intuit: 1-800-446-8848

    I have a hard time to believe that I am only the second person to ask for it.

    Maybe we need an open source version of QuickBooks ?




  • Re:Wine = What I Never Execute. (Score:3)

    by Pretender ( 3940 ) on Tuesday November 02, 1999 @10:42AM (#1568684)
    First, Wine has made incredible strides in the last year. By incredible I mean "I can't believe how many more applications, including popular ones, work or work better now."

    Second, it's the Wine people themselves who are also working on winelib; it's sort of a serendipitous project, I believe. That's not coming along quite as quickly last I checked, but if Corel really is getting involved then maybe that will change. Not sure how that has gone.

    I have been upgrading at every release for the last six months and the only time things have ever "broken" as the result of an upgrade, it has been because they changed the options or the .conf file and I didn't pay attention. Usually five minutes later and everything's working again.

    I should point out that I no longer use precompiled binaries; the code base is sort of large but it's worth it to compile it yourself. I fixed a lot of things by doing that. (Having to stick with glibc 2.0.7 for the time being sort of forced that as well.)

    I don't think that what they're doing lends itself to nailing down the releases the way you suggest (1.0=Win31, 1.1=win32, etc.). It's hard to know what's what in the vast undocumented world of the Win32 API's. They're really doing a fantastic job these days, anyway - if you haven't tried it in a few months, try it.

    These people are the ones who make it possible for people like me, in corporate NT-only settings, to survive with a dedicated Linux desktop.

    In the last two upgrades, fonts have improved dramatically, and I can run Word and Excel (although printing is still a bit sticky).

    Hope this clears some things up.

  • Be fair. She was correct, to within the accuracy defined by the new ActiveErrorMargin(tm) controls, as demonstrated by William "Nobody talks to me about Linux" Gates.
  • Specifically, WABI cannot run any win 3.1 software that depends on the win32 extentions. This does leave a lot of software that can run, however. I do have 2 programs I would love to run under WABI that won't, due to this limitation: FrameMaker 5 and Pixar Typestry.

    WABI works OK, but there are a few shortcomings. Quicken 98 runs, but I cannot access the modem or network under it, for some reason, so I cannot use it for online banking (Quicken requires that you register it before you can access the online banking features. Thanks, guys). SimCity 2000 (WIn 3.1 version) won't install.

    Eventually, I plan on setting WABI up to that it will run in an Xnested server. Right now, it basically draws on the screen by itself, so its windows are always on top. Fairly annoying.

    Of course, soon I plan to have a new PC capable of running VMWare, so I can use all of my current NT programs while still running Linux...
  • The 4.x Win32 Notes client has been functional under wine for some time. Most functionality is there and the stability is pretty good too. The 991031 wine release only improves on this. Now I just have to find time to try the R5.x Notes client (which hasn't worked well with previous wine releases). See the Notes for Linux Resource Page Here [brooklinesw.com] for more info.
  • Wine won't work for that. AOL uses some strange proprietary tcp/ip driver, but someone has reversed engineered it. I haven't tried it (I just saw it on freshmeat) but its worth a try.

    Go to http://www.foo.org/james/aol/aolip.html

  • The Problem with Wine (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Well I guess my subject is decieving because there are multiple problems with wine. Before I start ranting about these problems I would like to make it clear that there is no disrespect meant towards the developement team of wine- they are doing a good job.

    1. In my personal experience with wine, the success of wine is greatly dependant upon native window files, dll's mostly. This is fine if you are dual booting or happened to have that hd with a windows partition on it. But I switched to an all linux box and do not want to waste the space on setting aside space to install a os that I will never use just so that I can have the libraries.
    2. This one is just really a extension of #1 (oh well)- there is no truly documented alternative to native windows libraries. I have never found any information on running with wine with foreign (non-M$) libraries. I hope this problem is quickly disproven in a flame!
    3. Everbody and their dog is using wine. This is good but bad. In my experience wine is not even beta quality, which is fine, but there is such a large user base. This might just be a large scale of the bazaar model but I am afraid that the current quality of wine coupled with the user base will give it a bad name.
    4. Wine seems to have very little focus. Wine seems to be implementing new windows stuff even thought they do not have all the basic old stuff down. I speculate this is because that wine is powered to some extent by the gamers who demand the new stuff for their games are willing to either patch or bitch about it until it is implemented.
    Most people will say that the real problem is the last one that I stated, that simply has no focus. But in my humble little opinion my problem is currently the first on I stated.
  • First of all, winelib and wine are the same project. The "emulator" that is wine is just a loader for windows binaries (pretty much just hacks windows symbols to look like elf symbols) and then links it with winelib, the reimplementation of the windows apis. Thats why you can't run this "emulator" on non-intel machines. It's not emulating anything. Thats also why programs run at full speed (no emulation overhead)


    Second. Don't make accusations about the project unless you've tried it seriously. Virtually all win3.1 apis work now. Win95 and WinNT are fairly close, so a "lets do this...then this" approach is not that great an idea. Second, from what I've seen, just about everything win32 thats not network related works (or is at least usable). I admit, I haven't found many winsock programs that work....but they're making more progress than anyone ever has in this area, even though this is completely cleanroom (unlike alot of others like the OS/2 win emulator).
  • Let's see:
    • Has old hardware that has no NT drivers
    • Can't stand the Windows 95 interface
    • Has lots of Windows 3.1 apps she wants to run

    Looks to me like she should be using OS/2. It has the world's most powerful (and very intuitive) user interface, runs Windows 3.1 apps really well, and has great support for older hardware. She can install her Windows apps onto an HPFS partition, so her disk I/O will skyrocket. She can also run any or all of her Windows 3.1 apps in separate processes, so that if one of them crashes, it won't take the others with it. She can also run the apps seamlessly on the desktop, so that she won't have to run the Program Manager but can launch them directly from the WPS.

    As for WINE, well, it's being ported to OS/2 and merged with Project Odin (formerly Win32-OS/2). The OS/2 version has a special feature that lets you run Windows binaries directly from the command line or desktop, because the EXE loader has been enhanced to load Win32 apps and convert them to OS/2 apps on the fly.

    I'd say that OS/2 is just what she needs.

  • When I attempted to run a binary infected with the chernobyl virus (off the hard disk of a guy whose bios got fried), wine trapped the illegal memory accesses and dumped me in the debugger. It was very interesting to see it "on ice"
  • Granted the Linux is still missing a few apps, but as the Linux marketshare keeps increasing this will get better -- products will be ported either by the companies or by outfits like Loki pretty routinely within the next two years or so.

    Open source seems to work best on the operating system level or in replacing old, bloated software. Cutting-edge from-scratch development isn't OSS's strongpoint, but once a project does catch up and does become modern, it's usually the best choice out there.

    ----

  • Project Odin [netlabs.org] (formerly Win32-OS/2) is the OS/2 equivalent of WINE. In fact, it's using a lot of WINE code, although it previously was using Open32, which is a subset of the Win32 API as found on OS/2 Warp 4. There's quite a bit of development going on, although you wouldn't know just by looking at the web pages.

    Unlike WINE, Project Odin actually converts the Windows app into a native OS/2 application. The EXE and DLL's are modified so that OS/2 can load them, and a Win32 equivalent of the DLL's is provided. Odin also has a very cool feature where it intercepts the loader and actually convers a Windows EXE/DLL into an OS/2 EXE/DLL on the fly. This lets you run your Windows apps under OS/2 in a truly seamless fashion. It's very cool stuff, and I recommend that everyone check it out.

  • They got my call. A nice /. effect would get their attention anyway!

    Mine too. Of course, they hadn't released a Linux port yet, and have no plans in the future to do so.

    I wonder how many people need to call to get their attention? Several thousand this evening should do the trick :)

    -Brent
    --
  • VMware isn't really an emulator; it's a program that virtualises the processor you already have (something like the trick IBM VM does on System/3[79]0s, and also similar to what Win3.1/95/98 do to allow you to run DOS programs), so you can run another x86 OS inside the OS you already run. Those virtualisation tricks also (IIRC) add a good amount of overhead to the system, so it slows it down, but the hit is a lot less than actually running a software emulator (though actually, I think certain peripherals like the VGA may be emulated).

    If you're looking for something that *does* run on non-PC hardware, you may want to check out Bochs [bochs.com], though like any software emulation, that's very slow unless your machine's own CPU is very fast. Also, the guy behind Bochs is also organising his own "freemware" project, which is basically a Open Source clone of VMware.

    -lee
  • I hate to be a party pooper but I can write a short script of every experience I've had with wine, whether it was with Civ II, Axis and Allies, Age of Empires, some pipe game, excel, GospeLink, Palm software and now Harmony (linking Palm with on line calender).

    1- I hear about major advances with such and such software
    2- I download the latest Wine
    3- running Wine I try to install software
    4- watch it fail becuase something doesn't link
    5- moan
    6- contemplate wierd schemes of repartitioning so I can run Windows to get it throught the install so I can try the program
    7- give up for another three months

    Does anyone know tricks or tips of getting programs to install under wine? I'm with a lot of people who look through the glass at people happily getting things to work and wonder what we're doing wrong from the start.
    ^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~^ ~
  • See the "Plausible Deniability: Denied!" project here [geocities.com]. The goal is to /. Intuit, and count the requests.

  • i disagree. we use timbuktu and vnc at work and i have to say vnc is the better of the two. they both approach the problem from different angles, but i must say i much prefer vnc.

    there's nothing better than kicking someone else off in the middle of a vnc session. :)

    -l
  • I just stopped by their site, but without having a Wintel machine handy I can't quite tell what they're providing?

    Is it basically SoftPC for x86?

    If so, though it sounds slow, I'd LOVE it... I could do whatever i wanted to do with the system, then backup the hard disk file and have nothing to worry about... Anyone know? Or am i being off-topic here?
  • I would just like to comment on vmware and SMP. I have a vmware running on a dual PII system. Works flawlessly. There were some issues regarding speed and one other (i/o, i think), but they have been resolved. VMware seems quite dedicated to squashing bugs quickly.

  • 1. Would the Redhat 5.2 files of WINE work with my alpha installation?

    My understanding was that there was a lot of x86 specific code, therefore...

    2. Assuming 1. - Would I be able to use navigator/exploder under WINE on the alpha?

    ...no

    -Brent
    --
  • otherwise it runs harmlessly. For instance, the wine-devels all had a chuckle running the "Happy 99" virus a year ago - it showed the fireworks perfectly fine but was unable to infect anything :)
  • She did say that I was only the SECOND PERSON to ask for it.

    She meant that you were only the second person to ask *her* for it. Of course, it's not her regular duty to answer phones :)

    -Brent
    --
  • First things first. There's a file called wine/documentation/no-windows that explains in gory detail how to run without windows. If you don't compile wine from source you're missing out on a lot of the documentation.

    For the "everyone is using wine", yes that's true. I believe that anyone distributing a binary-only version of wine should be killed. People who can't even operate "./configure ; make depend ; make" should not be running wine in it's current condition.

    Wine DOES have a focus. That focus is to get the applications the wine developers use to run. Period. (and that includes the 2 dozen odd Corel guys helping out presently - their focus is the Corel Office apps).

    Therefore, if you want an app to run, you have 4 options:

    1) Fix it yourself, if you are a programmer
    2) Report it to the developers. If one of them has access to the app they might look at it. (most of them are students and can't afford commercial apps though - broken shareware/freeware apps generally get better response).
    3) Post a request on CoSource. When all else fails developers do want money :)
    4) Shut up and use vmware ;-)

    Working on wine is annoying precisely because everyone's a freaking expert and nobody actually has any clue (see also the "What I Never Execute" post above).

    Your pal,
    -Ian, wine developer since 1998.
    (my opinions are not those of the other wine developers, Alexandre, or the Corel guys, so there).
  • This version is a GREAT improvement over all other wines I've seen..
    With this version, I got EXCEL to work (even after I placed a chart in there), WinAMP, Word, ICQ (although the network didn't work), and other programs to work.
    Plus they must have redid the font support.. Fonts were PERFECTLY clear...

    This version rocked.
    ChiefArcher
  • The one thing that linux is missing (it might change now with that Pan project) is a good newsreader/binary decoder like Free/Forte Agent.. and WINE runs that great, almost as fast as the windows version in displaying stuff, and faster at downloading (at least with cable, i dont know about anything else)..
    I downloaded this version (hallowine) and the display bugs from the previous version seem to be gone now.. i havent tried many other programs but so far this one works great..
    My two pointless cents :)

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