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Windows Operating Systems Software

The Death of Windows XP 676

bsk_cw writes "Although many Windows users intend to hold onto their copies of XP until it is pried from their cold, dead fingers, Microsoft fully intends to phase out the OS in favor of Vista. If you're unwilling to move to one of the alternatives, and really don't like Vista, the least you can do is be aware of what's in store. David DeJean offers a rundown on Microsoft's timeline for Windows XP, why the company does things that way, and what you can do about it."
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The Death of Windows XP

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  • XP? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lost Race ( 681080 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @09:56PM (#22852382)
    Ha, still using Windows 2000 here.
    • Re:XP? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Brian Gordon ( 987471 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:00PM (#22852434)
      At least I can generate cryptographically secure pseudorandom numbers.. http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/12/1528211 [slashdot.org]
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'm still using Windows Millennium Edition, so I really got a kick out of your reply! :-)
      • Re:XP? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @03:44AM (#22854454)
        You needn't post as an AC. We don't judge people just because they're masochists, everyone can enjoy their life the way they want to.

        We're cool with that. Hey, we've been on the internet for a while. We've seen guys who like their nuts being smacked with bricks, someone using ME willingly is only a notch up from that, I'm pretty sure we can accept that. Somehow. Someday. Well, maybe in a while, at least.
    • Re:XP? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:15PM (#22852568) Homepage Journal
      I was at Borders the other day and saw their computers booting up Windows 98 ;-)
      • Re:XP? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Nullav ( 1053766 ) <moc@liamg.[ ]luN ['val' in gap]> on Monday March 24, 2008 @11:50PM (#22853212)
        I've noticed a lot of things running old versions of Windows over the past few years: ATMs, coin-counters, the big screens at the airport...never would have known if they weren't in the middle of a kernel panic.
        • Re:XP? (Score:5, Funny)

          by Jafar00 ( 673457 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @05:12AM (#22854748) Homepage
          I know what you mean. Last month I had a plane to catch and when I arrived at the local train station to travel to the airport at 5:30am, the ticket machine was displaying a blue screen running win2k. Needless to say I was forced to jump the barrier with my luggage and get a free 10 euro trip to the airport. The guard at the other end didn't believe my reason I had no ticket until I showed him the picture I took of the blue screen. Turns out he was an Ubuntu Linux fan and let me through with a laugh. :D
      • Re:XP? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by initialE ( 758110 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @11:58PM (#22853320)
        For non-networked machines, is there a need for a newer operating system? Software doesn't age you know.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Atario ( 673917 )
        The mini-storage place I rent maintains all their records -- even real-time stuff like gate entries and exits, and, I assume, alarm conditions -- on an Apple ][. They even have some 9-pin impact dot-matrix printer attached to it. Occasionally I get a notice letter from them printed on it, on paper that was clearly once fan-fold tractor-feed stock.

        Something in me admires that.
      • Re:XP? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ILongForDarkness ( 1134931 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @06:47AM (#22855116)
        A lot of retail outlets still use 98 or whatever they used at the time they had their last internal app rewrite. Ex. I've seen small video rental chains that are still using DOS based programs from the Win 95 days. If it works and your people know how to use it a lot of companies won't touch it.

        I think a bigger problem than Application upgrades for most people will be drivers. People are going to come with their latest gadget and try to attach it to their XP machine and there won't be a driver for it. I'm finding similar problems with Win 2000 now. Basic this has broken can I repair it reinstall it type issues there will still be plenty of support for. After all most IT guys will still remember how to do stuff from the XP days, and if there still is a bunch of corporate workstations that haven't been upgraded then there is still a bunch of IT guys tinkering with XP all the time.

        I think EOLing XP is the way to go. XP is old technology, people still have another 5 years at some level of support, I think 10 years is plenty of time for supporting an OS. I don't agree with taking down existing documentation from your website though. It can't be more than a few GB's, heck lets say it is 1TB, wants the big deal? A few hundred dollars worth of disk. Your new product should sell itself, your old products manuals should still be available, but the industry should be giving a compelling reason to upgrade hardware/software.

    • by MichaelCrawford ( 610140 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:42PM (#22852762) Homepage Journal
      I was very slow to move from NT4, because Win2k was kinda half baked in its first release (though not as bad as Vista). But I've always had good results starting with Service Pack 2.

      The key is to install FireFox, never use Internet Explorer or any of the apps that use it (like Outlook), and don't ever expose it directly to the Internet. (The one time I did, it only took an hour or so to get clobbered by the Welchia worm.)

      My wife runs XP, but mainly because that's what came on her laptop. The only real advantage I see to XP is the fast user switching. But she's never going to be a Vista user: she just bought an iMac, to run Final Cut on for her video artwork.

    • When Microsoft moved from 2000 to the spyware platform (online registration first, then what?) of XP, I decided not to move with it. I never found a reason that really forced me to upgrade. Because I decided to move to Linux, and put the W2K box in a closet running a VNC server. I hardly ever need to fire up the W2K machine at all.

      These Microsoft "up"-grades pushed me to using Linux full time. I bet that I'm far from alone.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      Ha, still using Windows 2000 here.

      Wuss. My abacus works during power blackouts and I don't need ISPs for sending smoke signals.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by jkrise ( 535370 )
      Why is Parent marked Funny? At my office, we have:
      60% Windows 2000
      20% Windows XP
      6% Windows NT / 98 SE
      12% Linux - various flavours

      We have more than 2000 PCs in all group companies put together.

      Windows 2000 is easily the dominant and quick-to-install; easy to maintain OS. XP is a pain - atleast the downloading of patches and service packs part. We have only 3 systems running Vista and all 3 are none too happy with Vista so far.
  • Satisfying (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JWSmythe ( 446288 ) * <jwsmythe@@@jwsmythe...com> on Monday March 24, 2008 @09:57PM (#22852398) Homepage Journal

        This will be very satisfying. I've had so many people tell me they absolutely HATE Vista, but they're stuck with it when they bought their new computer. They frequently ask me to put XP on, no matter what it takes (buy it, hack it, put their mothers key on).

        Killing XP off finally, while I love the idea of killing Windows will really hurt Microsoft. Since people hate Vista so much, they'll start being more open to other options.

        Maybe it'll mean friends and family will be asking me to do more Linux installs. I like those better anyways, they go a lot faster and they don't involve 2 hours of install plus 2 days of Windows Updates.
    • Re:Satisfying (Score:5, Insightful)

      by aleph42 ( 1082389 ) * on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:22PM (#22852618)
      I agree, but we must prepare ourselves for the fact that the next version of windows will probably be much better; and I'm sure that Microsoft'intention is to push the last XP users directly to it.

      When they started developing Vista, they could not imagine the rise of Ubuntu's success or the coming of the XO PC and, eeePC, which is why they thought they'd give a hand to their friends the computer vendors by making 2G of RAM a requirement. (I would check the dates if was not in a hurry).

      It looks like they understood this now, and reacted by making that "minimal kernel" stuff on the next windows (even a non graphic server version), and by planning to release it one year early.

      What I'm saying is: we (linux evangelists) have a huge opportunity right now, but it might not last. So let's make the most of it.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by vux984 ( 928602 )
        When they started developing Vista, they could not imagine the rise of Ubuntu's success

        Given that it has marketshare that is a fraction of OS X, I don't think Microsoft is exactly reeling at the 'rise of ubuntu' right now. Its a blip on the radar.

        or the coming of the XO PC and, eeePC,

        This might have taken them by surprise, but really, the RAM requirement is not really the issue there. The PRICE is. Sure RAM factors into that, but the Windows license is a bigger factor.

        which is why they thought they'd give a
    • Re:Satisfying (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Rev. DeFiLEZ ( 203323 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:38PM (#22852730) Homepage
      This is already happening at my (tech) company. Our "LAN" department knows that XP's support with expire, and if they don't start replacing them now they will have a large userbase with no code-support.

      Developers and sysadmins were always allowed to run linux. Now anyone else can via a supported corporate image.
      if you don't want linux (Sales, Product Managers, etc) you now get a MacOSX laptop or desktop.

      This has impacted other Software vendors, Our ticketing system with a windows client (dev/sysadmins rdesktopped in to use) got replaced with a cross platform solution.

      I think in 2 years we will be windows free, previously 60-75% of the employees were windows users. The reasons for this was the LAN department hates MacOSX less than Vista, and people heard all the buzz about Macs and were willing to give it a shot.

    • Re:Satisfying (Score:4, Interesting)

      by LoadWB ( 592248 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @12:44AM (#22853722) Journal

      This will be very satisfying. I've had so many people tell me they absolutely HATE Vista, but they're stuck with it when they bought their new computer. They frequently ask me to put XP on, no matter what it takes (buy it, hack it, put their mothers key on).
      This is a very good point, and I am sacrificing my mod points by commenting here :(

      Anyway, I see this happen with Windows 98SE quite a bit. Some old machines run perfectly well; for example, a 233MMX system with 128MB RAM with plenty of longevity cannot run Vista, let alone XP SP2. When this machine is relegated to nothing more than print server, POS, or work which would not take it onto the Internet, I will see Windows 98SE installed with a hacked or "borrowed" key, and it runs perfectly and does everything the user needs. And no body gives it a second look because Windows 98SE is perceived as perfectly functional in the context of what the user wants out of it. More staunch security advocates would prefer to pirate Windows 2000 on a such a box, and again the perception of the situation is dead-on. But whichever gets used, updates are no problem since the unofficial Windows 98SE Service Pack is available, as well as several similar post-SP4 Roll-up cluster updates for 2000.

      Just a thought, my first Windows XP machine back at release was a 233MMX with 192MB RAM, and it ran surprisingly well. Those specs would not cut it today.

      The same will happen with Windows XP once it leaves the market place. Although then it will not be as easy to "borrow" a Windows XP key since it requires online activation. Then an installer will have to hack the activation but, from what I understand, this is a trivial process. SP3 might change the game a little, but negligibly.

      And talking about old operating systems, I took a moment this weekend to have a laugh while I was working on my internal network server upgrading the tape drive. It is an AMD K6-III/400 with 128MB RAM and 20GB IDE drive, and provides DNS, DHCP, and outbound SMTP for my home network. I built this as a study in small network management and it became permanent after I just could not kill the bugger, even with the now defunct experimentation installs of Apache and MySQL. Here is the startup banner:

      Sun Microsystems Inc. SunOS 5.8 Generic February 2000

      Eight years later and still rockin' strong. And I can still get cluster patches from Sun. Had I invested money in this box, I would definitely feel I saw a return on the investment over the past eight years, and I certainly would not feel like I am getting monkey-fondled to have to retire the hardware in favor of a new operating system (I drool over Solaris 10 x64.)

      Not like a machine which is only two to three years old and have to be massively over-hauled or replaced just to run Vista.

      I think I have said this before on /., and I feel compelled to say it again. With Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, there was more of a cozy, fuzzy feeling with Microsoft. It was like they listened to us. Server 2003 was touted as being more legacy capable to appease those not yet ready to lose on hardware investments, and I proved this by running it on a customer's 200MHz Pentium Pro with 128MB to support a five workstation office. Windows XP initially was very similar in its legacy machine support, driver issues aside.

      Vista feels like Microsoft just told us to go phuq ourselves.

      I am in the process of completing my migration to Windows XP x64 now that I have a 64-bit capable dual-core machine. I love it. Every piece of hardware has a driver and it is peppy and responsive, seemingly more so than XP 32-bit. I believe we should have been at 64-bit computing a decade ago, but Intel has kept beating the 25 year-old 32-bit horse well beyond death. Given both, I take a moment to ponder on how Vista x64 performance compares to Vista 32-bit, and think that perhaps I can give it a try sometime.

      Of course, all things considered, Vista is still the desktop equivalent of the phone tree, and still frustrating to navigate and get things done. I hope for better from Windows 7.
  • by symbolset ( 646467 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @09:58PM (#22852416) Journal

    31 June 2008, 8:00 AM EST: Nasdaq and NYSE both crash as the big three PC vendors and their suppliers discover nobody's willing to buy a PC any more.

    Midmorning Bill and Steve get a call from Ben Bernanke.

    Afternoon DHS executes warrants on One Microsoft Way. Attorney general reopens antitrust investigation. Steve gets a call from the IRS regarding the structure of financing for one of his sports teams.

    Evening: XP gets a reprieve! We're all friends again.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "31 June"? What, are they running MySQL?
  • by MrJones ( 4691 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:03PM (#22852464) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft should recognize the Vista fiasco and then put all the eggs in the Win7 basket.
    I can not imagine all corporate users migrating to vista just because MS want so.
    • by adminstring ( 608310 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:22PM (#22852614)
      Since there have been a number of reports of people using Windows Server 2008 as a workstation and getting better performance than Vista, it's clear that Vista's days are numbered.

      I've never cared for XP's eye candy or Vista's eye candy... all I want in a Windows-compatible OS is a Windows 2000-like GUI, support for the latest hardware, updated security patches, and a minimum of bloat. XP can do it, Server 2008 can do it, and any future OS (or OS emulation like WINE) that can do it will be fine with me, too.

      I don't use a computer to look at pretty transparent windows. I use a computer to run applications. Any OS "feature" that steals CPU cycles away from my applications does not give me warm fuzzy feelings. Such "features" send me on a search for the method to turn them off and get back to the stripped-down, efficient GUI of Windows 2000. My hardware and my apps are where it's at for me. If the OS wants to be the star, it can take a hike. That is where MS went wrong with Vista.
  • Downgrade (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jedi Binglebop ( 204665 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:04PM (#22852474) Homepage
    I have Vista installed on my PC. When I bought a new hard drive, I found out that I could not simply activate Vista on my PC (with all the same hardware as before, except the drive itself). I reluctantly called Microsoft support, who asked me for a 25 character (from memory) code, and then read me out another 25 character code which I had to enter to activate Vista.

    Wow. Just for changing my hard drive.

    I fully intend to downgrade to XP in the near future.

    -JB
  • by Pausanias ( 681077 ) <pausaniasx@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:06PM (#22852498)
    There's plenty of good reasons to bash microsoft; this isn't one of them.

    ---Dedicated Ubuntu user
  • Unless MS is really going to *sell* users on Vista, trying to force them off XP is going to represent an opportunity for someone else, among them:

    (1) Microsoft Systems shops that have the ability to provide support or

    (2) Competition that's open source ("Don't like being moved off your platform when your *vendor* decides it's time, not when you decide it's time? When you have the source, you can maintain or hire someone to maintain it as long as the cost is worth it to you.")

  • Eee PC (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:10PM (#22852526)
    Umm.... what about the Eee PC? It's creating a new, very successful niche in the computer industry in the last six months, yet it's not powerful enough to run Vista. Is Microsoft going to end licensing of XP for the system, and give the whole market to linux? That would seem like an utterly stupid move on their part.
  • by bgfay ( 5362 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:12PM (#22852544) Homepage
    Given that the article sites June 30 as the cut-off date for pre-installed XP from the likes of HP and Dell, does anyone think that these guys are going to see a bunch of sales right before that date? I know that my brother's business needs about three more laptops and that when he hears that June 30 is the drop-dead date for XP machines from Dell, he's probably going to start ordering.

    I wonder if XP will get a reprieve before or after the 30th of June. It _will_ get a reprieve. That's my bet. I just don't know for sure when.

    Of course, I'm feeling a bit smug typing this on an Eee PC without Windows and knowing that my wife is about to buy a MacBook. I use Windows at work, but in every place where we make the decisions, we've given up on it.
  • Nature of an OS (Score:5, Insightful)

    by explosivejared ( 1186049 ) <hagan DOT jared AT gmail DOT com> on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:12PM (#22852546)
    This incipient consumer rebellion is a relatively new phenomenon, even in the short history of PCs. For most of the '90s, Microsoft couldn't bring out new products fast enough to satisfy customers.

    This is sort of empirical proof, to me at least, for what I have long thought, and I'm sure a lot around here thought as well. The days of an OS revolutionizing or vastly enhancing the way someone, especially a consumer, computes are long behind us. The OS has suffered from feature bloat for forever, and for the most part, a successful new OS is one that just doesn't hinder the work to be done. For most people, their computing needs have been satisfied, but they are pushed into a perpetual cycle of upgrading for upgrades sake. This "rebellion" is a symptom of this. XP satisfied people, and some of them are starting to realize what the terms "lock-in" and "monopoly" actually mean.

    We're coming to a point where freedom in software is gaining in market value. I know it's cliche, and people have been spouting it for a over a decade, but I suspect that the general populace has come to a point where they can see that dollars and cents are in favor of not being tied to a corporation that makes money by selling solutions for the same problems over and over again. I don't know what iteration of "free" software will fill this void, but this mess with XP is not good for them. It won't be the downfall of Windows, they are far to crafty and firmly positioned for that to happen. However, the old business model of theirs is losing its effectiveness.

    I hope I'm right, but even more so I hope I'm not turning into a linux nut that shouts "It's the year..." every time MS slips up.
    • Re:Nature of an OS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:27PM (#22852664)

      I know it's cliche, and people have been spouting it for a over a decade, but I suspect that the general populace has come to a point where they can see that dollars and cents are in favor of not being tied to a corporation that makes money by selling solutions for the same problems over and over again.

      I'm not sure the issue is that people with XP are unwilling to fund Microsoft. The issue from where I'm standing is two-fold: first, XP works. It's a fairly stable system, and one that people have been using for the past *seven* years. Second, everybody has "heard" that Vista is terrible. My dad, not a techie by any stretch of the imagination, simply refuses to use it. Why? Well, it's not because of first-hand experience -- it's because a few of his co-workers "heard" that it was a terrible OS. More tech-oriented people are more resistant because we don't really see the advantage of switching over to a new OS when the old one works just fine. The general populace is not as savvy as you might think. They're not as concerned about Microsoft's monopoly as they are about spending an extra couple of hundred dollars to upgrade to a new OS that they've "heard" is not so great.

      Besides, their business model is just fine. The product that they're selling, on the other hand, has a terrible reputation - deserved or not. I've used Vista, but I haven't put any real time into it, and I'm completely unwilling to do so until... well, I suppose until I have a final-patched Windows XP SP3 system that's been hacked because of an unfixed security hole. Let's see what happens in two years.

      • Re:Nature of an OS (Score:4, Insightful)

        by explosivejared ( 1186049 ) <hagan DOT jared AT gmail DOT com> on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:42PM (#22852764)
        I think you've got it mixed up a little bit. I could much more readily see a person who is a hobbyist with technology, or a professional, switching to a new OS based on merit of the situation than I could a non-tech oriented person. I used the term consumer very selectively. Software consumers, at least in the OS market, are rather uninformed. Microsoft's business model has been using that naivete and incremental improvements to milk money from them. That chain has been broken, and their inherent disinterest in technology and inherent resistance to change is potentially changing the game.

        The merits of Vista aside, I think most people have finally realized what everyone on slashdot already knew. To use e-mail, browse the web, and do some word processing you don't need a new OS every five years or so. Once the illusion that MS, coupled with hardware pushers, had going is broken, well then the whole market changes. People will start to realize that freedom is important, and maybe they should be a little more skeptical about when someone pumps them for money on a regular basis for what is little more than a black magical box, to quite a few.
  • by thomasdz ( 178114 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:13PM (#22852554)
    Oddly enough, quite a few people still have Windows 98 running (I have a Win98 machine in my basement doing my CDEX ripping).
    When Microsoft turns off the activation servers, that basically REALLY means the end of WinXP... or is there a chance, any chance, that Microsoft will release a super-secret "unlock all" patch in 2014 that will allow XP to be activated. I am pretty sure the answer is NO, but I can still hope.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I got something that activated my XP system w/o Microsoft already. It's called a crack. When I purchased my machine it came with an XP key. At some point Microsoft felt that key was no longer valid and after a call in they informed my that my key was invalidated and I was probably using a pirated version (I doubt e-Machines did that) so I'd have to pay for a new one.

      I went to Google, found what I needed and I've been happily running new installs of XP since.

      That worked really well for Microsoft didn't it
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by MojoStan ( 776183 )

      When Microsoft turns off the activation servers, that basically REALLY means the end of WinXP... or is there a chance, any chance, that Microsoft will release a super-secret "unlock all" patch in 2014 that will allow XP to be activated. I am pretty sure the answer is NO, but I can still hope.

      According to Microsoft Norway's Product Activation FAQ [microsoft.com]:

      • Will Microsoft use activation to force me to upgrade? In other words, will Microsoft ever stop giving out activation codes for any of the products that require activation?

        No, Microsoft will not use activation as a tool to force people to upgrade. Activation is merely an anti-piracy tool, nothing else.

        Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end

  • by syousef ( 465911 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:16PM (#22852586) Journal
    A whole article, with very informative and concise information about support and sales cycles of XP, but in the end the conclusion is you can put it off but you will bend over and take it.

    THIS is what's wrong with proprietary software. If Vista were better - more compatible with existing software, less buggy, less DRM crap, I would WANT to move. I don't, but in the long run I don't have a choice. If you'd told me 3 years ago I'd be fighting to keep XP, and buying older hardware to ensure support for it, I'd have laughed at you.

  • XP, then Linux (Score:4, Insightful)

    by HomerJ ( 11142 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:17PM (#22852590)
    The only reason I keep XP around is for gaming anyways. I'm figuring by the time XP really goes the way of the dodo, the 3d support for Windows applications will be there. If that's some version of virtualization, or wine having DX9 support completely that's what I'll use. Both of these options are "mostly there" now. VMware does some 3D, and wine can run a lot of DX9 stuff, just not what I need.

    I used Vista, and I don't really like it. I like Ubuntu, but there are some things like games, that it doesn't run. I feel choosing the OS, then the applications is like putting the cart before the horse. When I can run rFactor(a PC driving sim) in Linux, I can migrate to it. I fully believe I'll be able to do this before XP is dead.
  • Unexpected Benefits (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DesScorp ( 410532 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:26PM (#22852654) Journal
    You know who benefits from this? Apple. Expect Apple to really crank up the "move to the Mac" ads.

    Vista's reputation is justifiably bad, and I'm never buying a copy. If I suddenly need a new Wintel machine, there's always someone like tigerdirect that has overstocked machines with XP pre-installed, and they'll probably be selling them for a year after XP is pulled from the shelves. But I think MS is only going to cause customers to truly hate their guts for this. They'd be smarter to allow XP sales until Windows 7 is ready (assuming they don't fuck that up.... a big if).
  • I've already done it (Score:4, Interesting)

    by shanen ( 462549 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:34PM (#22852706) Homepage Journal
    I started working with Ubuntu pretty seriously a couple of years ago, and at this point I can say that Ubuntu is my OS of first choice, and I have no plans to adopt Vista. Ever.

    I may get forced in the Vista direction at some point, and I'm pretty sure that at some point I'll be forced to at least support it, but so far I've been able to pretend it isn't there and just hope for it to go away. My company is the main locus of such possible force, but they are so far mostly avoiding Vista. Unfortunately the in-house Linux that they prefer is Red Hat... It might be more secure, but I feel Ubuntu is much closer to being ready for the masses to work with.
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:36PM (#22852714) Homepage
    First I'd like to preface by saying if you LOVE Vista and you truly believe it's better than WindowsXP, then good for you. You are a minority according to everything I've heard and seen. (Does anyone have any studies, polls or surveys backing up either position?)

    This is no classic example of market demand guiding any invisible hand to deliver. People want it, Microsoft says "too bad!"

    Would anyone care to speculate for logical reasons why Microsoft would take this approach? I'm really out of ideas on this matter. Most people can agree that they dislike the idea... even people who LOVE Vista can't actually approve of Microsoft forcing people out of something they like can they? (Don't answer that, I know they can...)

    So why are they doing this?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Crayon Kid ( 700279 )

      Does anyone have any studies, polls or surveys backing up either position?

      Probably, but what good are they? If you saw a survey claiming that 90% of PC users say "Vista sucks/rules", would it change your opinion if it happened to be the opposite? No, you'd be saying to yourself "what a load of bull, that's SO not true" and you'd go digging for proof it was fabricated by fanboys/corporations etc.

      When the subject is something that everybody has their own strong opinion of, polls and survey's don't matter muc

  • by shadylookin ( 1209874 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @10:37PM (#22852724)
    XP users will still get security fixes until 2014. By then MS will probably have put out windows 8 and everyone will be complaining about that. Just like everyone complained about 95, 98, ME, 2000, xp, and vista when they came out, and yet continued to buy MS's operating systems.

    Be realistic 13 years of support is amazing long, and if that's not enough XP for you there isn't any rule that says you can't continue to use it after they stop patching it.
  • by bogaboga ( 793279 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @11:14PM (#22852958)
    This is one more reason why all those that know how to code should put all their efforts behind KDE and its latest flagship product based on QT4. I have nothing against the other desktop environment but its association with Mono and Microsoft's .NET platform makes me very nervous. We already have voices of descent and a timeline [boycottnovell.com] on this issue.

    One could say we in the free software business are our own enemies. We shoot ourselves in the feet all the time. Imagine...after all this time, with the [free] availability of specs of every kind, there is no decent ODF application beyond OpenOffice.org...which at version 2.4, still sucks bigtime by the way! Do not think I blindly support KDE because KDE's KOffice is a joke!

    By the way, some author outlines ways for that other environment to improve. [earthweb.com]

  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Monday March 24, 2008 @11:35PM (#22853128)
    EQ is the only thing holding me to Windows now.

    Openoffice 2.4 has added the features I wanted and seems to mangle my existing huge documents very little so that I can patch them in a few hours (these are 150 page documents with hundreds of pictures). The smaller documents I only need to change the table of contents and indices column count.

    P2P- Azureus.

    Sound- Audacity.

    Graphics-- still an issue- but Draw looks decent. I need a good pixel editor tho.

    Browsing-- Firefox.

    Just do not see the point in upgrading again and paying money again. I guess I'll get some $399 PC with Vista or Windows7 but no more $1899 (heck last XP pc was only $1199).

    Focusing my dollars on retirement, boardgames, my house--- do not see putting out $3k for a computer each year like I used to.
  • Oh noes! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DavidD_CA ( 750156 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @12:10AM (#22853414) Homepage
    In 2014, Microsoft will stop all support of Windows XP. Oh noes!

    You guys DO realize that this would be like someone running Windows 95 today, right? XP came out in 2002 and was replaced in 2007. A full seven years after that, XP will be phased out. There will likely be two major OS releases, plus Vista, by the time that happens.

    Not to mention this has already happened with every other Windows release to date, including Windows 2000. In fact, Windows 2000 (Professional and Server) officially lost Mainstream Support in the middle of 2005, and its Extended Support (security updates only) will end in 2010. That's a 10 year lifespan.

    The real story here is that Microsoft has committed to supporting an OS for 12 years after you paid less than $200 for it.
  • who cares?! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gillbates ( 106458 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @12:16AM (#22853452) Homepage Journal

    At the risk of trolling, who cares? Microsoft has been doing this sort of thing since Windows 3.1.

    By now, I think people have figured out the proprietary software game. You pay for gloss, for the "privelege" of upgrading every few years. People who run Windows by choice do so because they want to have the latest thing. They don't care how well it works; they don't care if it's slow, or needs constant updating, or has umpteen million security holes.

    It's what everybody is using. Period. And that's reason enough to use it.

    You know, we could go on a rant about other operating systems that are more secure, run faster, have better legacy support, more features and options, etc...

    But it doesn't matter. The kind of people who run XP by choice don't care that Microsoft is going to discontinue support. When that happens, they'll just shell out another few hundred for a brand new PC. Why? Because it's new, and therefore better.

    It doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Linux will still be around for those of us who actually care about the quality of the software we run. And Apple will still, gladly, cater to those who are fed up with being abused by their technology vendor. And no one will care - not Microsoft, not Apple fanboys, not Linux zealots, and least of all, Windows users. They've become so accustomed to computers as slow, unreliable, and insecure, that honestly, they won't notice any difference.

    Because Vista is new, and therefore more advanced....

  • by EdIII ( 1114411 ) * on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @12:32AM (#22853612)
    XP will live forever . It may not be supported with service packs, but you will still be able to use it, and purchase it.

    http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx [microsoft.com]

    XP licenses can be transferred indefinitely. You don't have to ever buy another XP license as long as you are getting rid of the older machine. As for drivers, there will be drivers for XP for at least another 10 years. I can still download Windows 2000 drivers; it's a safe bet there will be Windows XP drivers for quite a long time.

    I also find it ironic that XP is about to be "dead" and certain manufacturers still don't have XP 64-bit driver support.

    Activation has to be provided by Microsoft for as long as their are stickers out in the "wild". There are no contractual provisions for Microsoft to NOT provide activation. At some point, Microsoft may elect to just allow any request to be activated. Those service centers which run 24/7 giving out activation codes when too many activations have been performed on the license don't run cheap. There is no alternative however. To not provide activation denies a customer the ability to run the operating system that they paid for.

    Unless I am really clueless, which is possible since I do have some pretty spectacular "DUH" moments, the EULA does not provide a time frame or conditions for them to discontinue activation.

    It will be even worse in corporations, since there is a pretty good rebellion going against Vista right now in the workplaces. That is just what I can see, I am not trying to start a war here :)

    My point though is that corporations are even more aware, and more sophisticated about licenses, COA's , CALS, TS CALS, etc. and are far more likely to transfer a XP license from an older machine to a newer machine rather then purchase a newer OS like Vista.

    So no, XP is not going to die. Far from it. This is just another article stirring up blogs like rocks hitting a wasp's nest.
  • Not Just Microsoft (Score:3, Informative)

    by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @12:36AM (#22853652) Homepage Journal
    Let's not pretend this is something specific to Microsoft. Apple, Debian, the BSDs...everybody phases out old versions of the OS after some time. Microsoft actually supports their operating systems for a very long time.

    On the other hand, an upgrade from one Microsoft OS to the next is often much more disruptive (to your system and to your wallet) than upgrades to some other OSes. For example, Debian upgrades are free and usually very smooth.

    Plus, the free operating systems are largely mix and match. You don't have to accept the package as a whole. With Apple and Microsoft, for example, if they decide to litter their new OS with DRM or other junk, your choices are to accept it or to not use the new OS. With, say, Linux or OpenBSD, you can just leave out the parts you don't want (usually by simply not installing them. in the very worst case, you will have to edit the source and recompile - but at least you _can_ do that).
  • by x00101010x ( 631764 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @03:05AM (#22854348) Homepage
    Disclaimer: I work for M$ft (but in no way should my comments here be considered representative of Microsoft) Windows 2000 was pried from my cold dead fingers only because XP is required to VPN into work (some days it's nice to just work from home), but XP isn't as bad as I'd expected. Vista on the other hand, well, I crawled through a lot of broken glass working with IE7 Beta2 and I will NEVER willingly install it on any system I need to actually do something other than run office and surf the web. Windows7, on the other hand, looks very promising. Although, the WinMin kernel and such strongly reminds me of something some Finnish guy slapped together when he was in college... Enough background, to my point. One of my biggest problems with Microsoft is how as soon as there's a new platform, all development and marketing effort is put into it. Currently I'm working as part of an application development team for a Windows Mobile product. We're targeting WinMo 5 + .Net Compact Framework 1.0 because that's the largest existing install base out there for Windows based SmartPhones and PocketPCs. When we run into problems and post questions to mailing lists we're regularly getting called idiots for not using Compact Framework 3 or WinMo 6. Sure, what we need to do would be easy using those platforms, but NOBODY sells a phone with that already installed and it's asinine to expect users to upgrade just to run our application. You can still buy phones with WinMo 5 and .Net CF 1.0, yet there's no internal support to speak of for either technology. I shudder to think what hell 3rd party developers must be going through. The platform teams at Microsoft tell us to use .Net CF 3, when .Net CF 2 isn't even standard on the market yet. For that reason, I've decided to go for upper management rather than technical individual contributor just so I might have a chance at changing some of these fscked up ideas, or at least attempt to give developers some room for better practices and refinement of technologies rather than jumping to the latest and greatest when there's still lots of room for improvement on what's already in the market.
  • by scharkalvin ( 72228 ) on Tuesday March 25, 2008 @08:19AM (#22855564) Homepage
    Company I used to work for is STILL shipping product based on DOS 6.1x! Granted this is an embedded use of the OS in a turnkey system. I think they bought the rights to ship as many copies as they wanted. (From IBM not M$).

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