Clandestine Operations at Google 166
eldavojohn writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is running an interesting story about Google's involvement with the CIA, NSA, NOAA and several other agencies. This has been speculated before although now Google seems to have several contracts open with several agencies. From the article, "When the nation's intelligence agencies wanted a computer network to better share information about everything from al Qaeda to North Korea, they turned to a big name in the technology industry to supply some of the equipment: Google Inc. The Mountain View company sold the agencies servers for searching documents, marking a small victory for the company and its little-known effort to do business with the government. 'We are a very small group, and even a lot of people in the federal government don't know that we exist,' said Mike Bradshaw, who leads Google's federal government sales team and its 18 employees.""
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Re:The NSA has always done this (Score:5, Funny)
They're probably too busy smokin pot to finish it up...
that's right, REEFER!
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Time to stop using google to locate images of naked women.
Re:The NSA has always done this (Score:5, Funny)
I did a search for that on Google, and nothing turned up.
Oblig XKCD (Score:2, Funny)
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Due to an invention called "timezones", virtually everyone around the world gets to experience midday when the sun is highest in the sky. In fact, traveling across these "timezones" allows people, objects, and data, to travel through time, both forwards a
Clandestine? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see anything clandestine about a software/hardware company providing software/hardware solutions to the Federal government, especially when said information is printed in a nationally recognized newspaper and linked on a major news aggregator.
It seems more like an opportunity to get the Google haters and rumor mongers fired up.
Re:Clandestine? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Clandestine? (Score:5, Funny)
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So what you are saying is that IKEA is EVIL then. :P
Re:Clandestine? (Score:5, Funny)
MOD Parent up (Score:4, Insightful)
Breaking News! (Bah-deep beep... bah-deep beep beep...) Google has sold computers to the NSA. These computers are good for searching databases, something Google has a little experience doing. The NSA could be using these servers to SPY ON YOU! Film at 11.
Staples has also been caught selling pens to the NSA, pens that may have been used to WRITE YOUR NAME ON THE TAB AT THE TOP OF A FOLDER!!!!!
And bring it down to the local level, Jim Stevens, of "Jim's Roach Coach," was seen parking his Yuck Truck outside the caf door of the NSA, selling food at break time to NSA employees, who MAY BE USING THOSE CALORIES RIGHT NOW TO SPY ON YOU!!!!
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I swear I have seen "Jim's Roach Coach" in front of my company building the other day... I assumed that he was there to feed the utility workers who were doing some work on our internet line... Its a funny coincidence that "Jim's Roach Coach" was also seen at NSA headquarter...the utility workers might not be what they seem...
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So, is google evil for designing and creating software tools to mine peoples priva
Re:Clandestine? (Score:5, Funny)
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Indeed the summary makes the deals seem more nefarious than a public company providing a product to a government entity. The extent of the contracts seems to be limited to what Google already provides to the general public.
Also $2 m
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Re:Needs to be said (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Needs to be said (Score:4, Insightful)
There are some distinct parallels between American business and Nazi Germany in '30's and American business and China in the 21st century. China has transformed in to a Fascist regime with a cheap, repressed, work force just like Nazi Germany. While the economies in the U.S. and Europe are floundering, China is a very profitable place to do business. If a place is profitable business men almost never pass it up on the grounds the government is brutal or repressive. In fact big business really likes repressive regimes as long as they are anti communist and they respect private ownership of capital. That's why the U.S. has propped up so many dictators over the last 100 years. That why when China abandoned communism for capitalism western business rushed there and embraced them with open arms, though their repressive one party state hadn't change at all, it just transformed overnight from Communism to Fascism and truth be told big business just LOVES Fascism. Fascim is pretty close to the ideal system for big business as long as you are on the good side of the party in power.
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Its a dirty little secret that is usually brushed under the rug but there were some substantial Nazi sympathies in America in the 1930's
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Re:Clandestine? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Clandestine? (Score:5, Interesting)
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We pay for all that horseshit process crap.
You think it's worth it?
Re-read that line that says Total Tax Liability on your 1040 this year, and see if you think you got that many dollars worth of something from your government.
Then vote accordingly in every election that will make even a small difference.
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If it mak
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Double Standard (Score:2)
BSOD jokes aside, I think if it were Microsoft providing NSA (or the military, or any security agency) software for the purposes of intelligence gathering, you'd see quite the different reaction here, and I think most of the threads would be about how evil bo
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I don't see anything clandestine about a software/hardware company providing software/hardware solutions to the Federal government
Google Thunderstorm (Score:5, Funny)
Almost had the evil government owns Google effect there, unless we are suggesting that Google now controls the weather as well.
Re:Google Thunderstorm (Score:5, Funny)
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Open Source Intelligence (Score:5, Funny)
Orly? (Score:4, Funny)
*ring ring*... *ring ring*... oh, there's someone on the FU**ING CLUEPHONE FOR YOU.
it's like wikipedia (Score:3, Funny)
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"interesting story" = "warmed over press release"? (Score:5, Insightful)
"interesting story" = "warmed over press release"? Zzzzz.....
Google and the IRS (Score:5, Interesting)
They can search 1/2" tapes? (Score:2)
I can just see a Google appliance in use there - a tiny box spidering a hectare of moldering IBM 360s, with 60 operators standing in line waiting to mount tapes.
Shhhhhhh! (Score:2)
sneaky weather men (Score:4, Interesting)
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President Reagan "announced" over an open mic the beginning of the nuclear bombardment of the Soviet Union. Why do we need anything more clandestine when announcing the destruction of the chicoms?
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Hey, we at NOAA do oceanography too, and we had absolutely nothing to do with those reports of that giant-tentacled rubber-suit-looking creatures that washed up oh excuse me, my boss is trying to tell me someth
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Not necessarily since Mr. Pitt is now almost exclusively behind a desk and Mr. Giordino is off running around with his hot wife. Mr. Austin has now picked up Mr. Pitt's duties with Mr. Zavala providing the overbearing hormones. Then again, all of Pitt's and Austin's stories are pretty much the same. Just different places and people.
Nice reference though.
NOAA?! (Score:1, Funny)
Do no evil? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Do no evil? (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean... with a purchase order? To buy search appliances? Just like they also buy air conditioning equipment, sandwiches, and carpeting?
Have they redefined "treason" as well?
Right, because being a vendor to federal IT users is
How do you even function, day to day, behind all of that tinfoil? I mean, doesn't it get hot and itchy after a while?
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Would that be the sound of numerous slashdot users nodding their heads in unison because they absolutely believe that any IT company doing business with the NSA is evil? Because if you bother to read the comments following up on ANY article that touches on these subjects, you'll see the very loud, utterly humorless, non-stop blathering of uninformed, clueless groupthink drones who drool that exact sentiment onto their keyboards every day.
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Which scandal are you referring to, exactly? The scandalous way that the people we need to listen in on were informed about how their international calls to their buddies in the states were being tracked? Or the scandalous way in which the party that doesn't have the White House just now is looking to make all sorts of partisan propoganda points over an issue that - when you actually pin them down on it - they say they wouldn't actually change? I've got a fine sense of humor
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Slashdot post is flamebait (Score:4, Insightful)
Google is the best in search (currently). They provide appliances that can be used on closed networks (for example classified). There are MANY applications for these devices. The US Government is a BIG customer and can be a good partner. Despite what you may read here, not all the US Government does is evil....
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That's the interesting part. Shouldn't it be a little worrisome that the bulk of people on a site as big as Slashdot think that doing business with the US Government makes you evil? Presumably because they believe the US Government itself is evil?
Is this about Google's "search appliance"? (Score:4, Informative)
Google sells an enterprise search appliance [google.com]. It's not cheap. "Starts at $30,000 for searching up to 500,000 documents", for a 2U server. That's probably what this is about.
Trickledown (Score:5, Insightful)
The upshot to this is that this is one place where the Federal government at large actually provides something for the public good, even if it is a few steps removed from joe sixpack. Since the NSA has some of the most stringent security requirements outside of most casinos, they're likely to push Google to improve their products in ways the rest of us can't. Take Net BSD for example. Anyway, that's likely to trickle down to the rest of us in the form of a more robust line of Google appliances and more. Another possibility is that Google may also have to learn how to become more nimble as a company in order to meet tougher requirements for Government-contract volume, reliability and ease-of-handling-red-tape. Again, that can work out for everyone.
The downside is that throwing Google style power at large, parallelizable computing tasks, might send us rocketing down a rather slippery slope if it were used for less-than-legal *coughATTcough* purposes. Yea, we're all tempted to file that one under "-1 No Duh", but I think it bears mentioning all the same.
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Re:Trickledown (Score:4, Interesting)
Unless it's a typeo, or Google is simply trying to avoid having to move a mountain of red tape every time it does something, that does look a little fishy.
Google competes with Lucene (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a fairly generic search product, and with that little revenue, it can't be getting much penetration. Most of the value in these sales is in system integration with other document processing, email, multimedia, and so on, and not the core search engine. It's a battle to close each deal, but usually there's good money in customizing the product to meet each situation.
Google wanted to buy us at one point, but Larry and Sergei were too put off by having to do sales and customer engineering (services model), and went back to their hammocks. Still, I think they could do OK in this market, since their main competitor can't do engineering management to save its life.
Google Special Ops (Score:2)
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what they can't keep updating PROMIS? (Score:2, Insightful)
Kudos to the Government (Score:5, Informative)
If you need to have Google service the appliance, you can instruct the device to SSH to a Google server where the tech will access it remotely and make changes or troubleshoot. Or you can plug a modem into the serial port and the tech can dial in.
Either way - you control access.
We have two of these appliances at work churning through wikis, sharepoint sites, NFS stores, and company intranet pages. SharePoint search sucks - so that was the first to get axed. Everything else was added, just because we could.
I, for one, am glad the government is using modern technology to improve efficiency. Someone actually gets it.
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Having worked in the military on the "high side" network, it was great when Google's search became available. There had been numerous other engines available prior to that, including an early Yahoo and Alta Vista. Anyone who has been around a while can appreciate how great it was to search using Google instead of a cira-1999 Alta Vista query.
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I love the GSA we have... it *just works*.
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Quoth the parent: I, for one, am glad the government is using modern technology to improve efficiency
Clearly you have not learned from history nor have you given a good read to much of what the American Founders wrote. An "efficient" government is exactly what I don't want.New Google motto (Score:3, Funny)
Don't be [REDACTED].
Breaking news? (Score:2, Funny)
Not sure that I would call NOAA clandestine (Score:3)
Either their activities are not very clandestine or they are really, really good at hiding them, Dirk Pitt notwithstanding.
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Either their activities are not very clandestine or they are really, really good at hiding them
Exactly. What is best place to hide something? In the exact place where everyone expects that something to be.
Someone spots a satellite that's not on any official lists and no markings of ownership or purpose? OMG CEILING CAT IS WATCHING ME TRAIN MY PARAMILITARY REVOLUTIONARIEZ!!!11ONE
Someone spots a satellite with a big NOAA sticker on the side? Oh, that's just the Hurricane Tracker 3000.
Sort of like
ads (Score:2, Funny)
Misleading subject. (Score:2)
Goog At the Spooks (Score:2)
But these are spooks. I doubt they'll let their agencies become dependent on Google without having some "leverage", like spies planted inside to be sure "business is operating accordin
Little Known? (Score:3, Informative)
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/18/1640230 [slashdot.org]
They've also voluntarily turned over data to the feds before as made very public. Where's the the secrecy about working or wanting to work the government? Let's not forget their job posting for a Federal Sales person - http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/answer.py?answer=80784 [google.com]
Do no evil... (Score:2)
Let their evil be on their heads, eh? Works for me. Besides, paying customers are very nice.
My captcha is 'virtuous'. So when did
Beer for less! (Score:2, Funny)
Oh the controversy!!!! (Score:2)
I have a different take on this. (Score:4, Insightful)
Heck we would even had a hard time even figuring out how to do something they would even care about.
This stuff where domestic terrorist spying was used against Eliot Spitzer's bank transactions is just plain wrong. But in the end there is no point it crying about it, again most of us will also not be worth bothering with. I am more concerned with then starting to going after tax evaders or pot smokers, by wholesale automated domestic spying.
From my former hacking past. If they thought you were involved in something they'd just ransack your house, empty it and deny doing it. google "steve jackson games" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games [wikipedia.org] for example. The Wiki entry doesn't do justice to the severity of what really happened.
So electronically seeing everything I am doing so they can see it's really nothing of any interest to them is better at least for me on some level.
It's been my experience with cops and other groups like this that if you walk around with black cloths and black ski mask at night this will draw far more attention if you'd planning on doing something wrong then if you wore a bright orange reflective jacket and helmet, and white overalls in the middle of the afternoon.
In black they will arrest first and ask questions later where with the bright uniform, you just look like your supposed to be there, and never get a second glance.
Same with technology, I have friends that do everything with PGP, 3DES, AES etc. It will only make them get put under more scrutiny.
I'd bet I were planning on doing something wrong that I could get away with so much more if I just keep everything in clear plain text, just for the fact that they are expecting people to act secretive and raise a red flag when doing something wrong.
On 9/11 they were looking for all kinds of secret dangerous thing, explosives, and poisons etc..
But no it was Box Cutters, We are talking about a few f**king 99 Cent box cutters that took down the 2 tallest building in the United States, and brought our economy to a stall, started 2 wars, and cost us Billions upon Billions looking for all of the wrong things and push our gas prices to $4 per gallon, and it still not over. That box cutter might even escalate with WW III.
This an example where KISS - Keep it stupid and simple is most effective.
If you think about all of the homeland security, there is still painfully little they can do against the box cutter type of attack. Something so mind boggling trivial and stupid you'd never think about it.
But it's these things that could lead to a terrifying chain reaction.
So if all my docs are up on Google and easily readable, these numb nuts of the government are far less likely to even notice me or bother me, then if I were trying to pass around encrypted docs, then they will spend millions to decode them and then start monitoring my every action. Because If I am hiding something I must be doing something wrong?
They never believe it was just grandma's cookie recipe as you try to explain this while being water boarded.
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This is why it's so essential to get everyone to use strong encryption by default. Philip Zimmermann said it best [philzimmermann.com] back in 1991, in the original PGP user's guide:
What if everyone believed that law-abiding citizens should use postcards for their mail? If a nonconformist tried to assert his privacy by using an envelope for his mail, it would draw suspicion. Perhaps the autho
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Problem is several fold.
1.) SMTP is by default clear text.
2.) POP3 & IMAP are also.
3.) There is a shortage of good mail clients that can support PGP or any encryption.
4.) It was probably too lated to change things when Philip wrote those words in 91.
I remember the resistance and confusion with getting Kerberos, SSH, SSL and IPSEC out there.
5.) Key exchange has always been awkward at best, and
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Strong open source encryption algorithms such as those used in PGP/GnuPG and OpenSSH are open source and widely available all over the world. Believing that the US government has had some secret way to break them since 1997 would require believing that the US government either is much smarter than all of the world cryptographic communit
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Many orders of magnitude, and specifically designs for cracking specifically these types of codes.
In addition it's been 1 single Chinese woman Xiaoyun Wang in Beijing who in 10 years cracked 5 of the most secure hashes we have.
So if one woman in China can crack so many of these, then what can an army of Benchley park types do?
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/16/0146218 [slashdot.org]
http://developers.sl [slashdot.org]
this isn't secret in any way (Score:2, Informative)
The Dept of State Does This (Score:3, Interesting)
I bet that..... (Score:3, Interesting)
Where do people come up with this stuff? If they used Apache, MySQL, Oracle, Linux, Unix, a computer, a PC, a Mac or whatever would that also make the news? Perhaps there should be an article for each! Sheesh!
Re:In soviet amerika, google searches YOU (Score:5, Informative)
What part of:
"The Mountain View company sold the agencies servers for searching documents"
didn't you understand?
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