Smart Parking Spaces In San Francisco

2centplain sends along a report in the NYTimes on San Francisco's smart parking initiative. He asks, "Any guesses on the when this will be hacked? Like, 'reserving' an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there, or, perhaps using the wireless mesh network for some other purpose?" Quoting: "This fall, San Francisco will test 6,000 of its 24,000 metered parking spaces in the nation's most ambitious trial of a wireless sensor network that will announce which of the spaces are free at any moment. Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones. They may even be able to pay for parking by cellphone, and add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car."

useless for women

They know how to find free space [grouchyoldcripple.com].

So long, thanks for all the gas.

Seems like a huge investment in a technology that probably only has five to ten years of life left in it...

Re:

You mean the internal combustion engine? I doubt it. Europe has been paying even more than the US right now for gas, and they all still drive. If gas goes up too much more, it will become cost effective to make the gas out of other sources. Still plenty of coal left, even neglecting all of the "bio-xxx".

Even then, people would not give up their cars. I live in NYC and don't need a car, but in the 'burbs I sure would have bought an electric and put up with the crappy range rather than give up a car altogethe

Re:So long, thanks for all the gas.

On the other hand, over here in Europe out cars get good MPG, so even though we pay more for petrol, we don't pay that much. There's very few 8-15 MPG petrol guzzlers over here. :)

Re:So long, thanks for all the gas.

Yeah, but over in europe, the gallons are bigger...

Re:So long, thanks for all the gas.

Yeah, but over in europe, the gallons are bigger...

I don't know why you've been moderated funny.

1 Imperial gallon = 1.20095042 US gallons [google.co.uk] (only the UK uses gallons AFAIK, and only unofficially)

Re:So long, thanks for all the gas.

Europe has been paying even more than the US right now for gas, and they all still drive.

In many parts of Europe, cars are used for long-distance trips to remote places, often with the kids and a tonne of luggage in tow. The use of a car for the daily commute is very uncommon compared to the United States. High prices did spur better investment in public transportation in Europe, while in America low gas prices created a culture where everyone young and old thinks he needs his own car.

A couple of weeks ago, a middle-class Slashdot poster wrote something along the lines of "Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people." I couldn't imagine someone here in Helsinki saying that. Everyone rides the metro, buses or trams.

Re: being near poor people

I strongly disagree. Public transportation in the US sucks because it doesn't go where you want to go, when you want to go. It works well for a very limited subset of the population that lives in high-density metro areas; it's useless for any task that leaves these areas.

Now before you complain that I'm an apologist, lemme cite some facts. I took a flight from Washington National airport not too long ago. My plan was to take the bus to the Metro train, which would drop me at the airport. Decent plan, right? After a mile walk to the nearest bus stop, I stood there for 45+ minutes waiting for the bus, which didn't show up. At that point, I had burned my "extra" time budget and was in danger of missing my flight. I jogged home, got in my car, and drove to the airport. I passed the bus some 60 minutes after it was scheduled to make a stop. Why didn't I drive to the Metro and continue from there? Because it was a weekend, and the trains run on a 12-minute schedule. With the bus-delay, I was in danger of missing the plane if I missed the Metro by the perfect amount.

Similarly, I *can* take public transportation to work, but I did the calculations, and the one-way time varies from 3 to 4 hours. That's for a 26-mile commute distance. Public transportation is coordinated at the local level here, so it's a horrible PiTA to switch across five different transport methods to get somewhere - bus, train, bus, different bus, etc. Schedules between municipalities are completely uncoordinated, so it takes maximum time to go anywhere. If you don't value your time, it's a wonderful way to burn through it.

What's that? I should move closer to work? Unfortunately, my office is located in an industrial business park. There isn't a residential area within 5 miles. Further, even if I could make that work, I'd be a huge distance from everything else. The US isn't laid-out for a public transportation infrastructure. It's been pasted on as an afterthought, and it sucks. We'd need to make some horrific changes to install a useful transport network, and I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.

Re:So long, thanks for all the gas.

I had to re-read this paragraph...

"I don't avoid public transportation because of poor people, but mostly because of dangerous, violent lunatics, who threaten people just because they're bored. Also because of stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around." ...to realize that you were talking about public transportation. I don't know how, but I missed the first part. Everything after the word because fits nicely with driving as well. You know... road ragers... the lunatics who threaten people just because they are bored (or in a hurry, or mad at their spouse, etc.). Also because of the stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around while they drive.

But the assumption that public transportation is the same everywhere as that one bus ride you took that was full of escapees from the Asylum... that's just stupid man. The public transportation system in Portland Oregon is pretty fantastic. Now, in Vegas, the buses are notoriously late (quite common to see one bus on a route passing another bus on that same route, where they should be separated by minutes if not an hour). In Boston, the only way to get across the city is by using the T. Driving can take you 4 hours or more, while jumping on the Orange line in Malden, changing trains in Downtown crossing, and hopping the Red line to Braintree will take you half an hour total. In fact, if you want to visit Boston and you don't live near it, the best way is to park at the end of one of the T lines, and ride in.

My experience with public transportation in Washington DC, Tallahassee Fl, Las Vegas, Boston MA, Providence RI, Portland Or, Milwaukee Wi, New Orleans La, and Dallas Tx has always been good. I've never been on a bus or train with screaming violent lunatics (of any age). This includes my cross-country bus trips as well as my cross-country train trips. And I've done several of both. So I've got more proof that public transportation is safe and pleasant, than you have proof that it is not. And I don't even feel like I have to carry a gun to secure my trip. But, with car jacking and the like, I guess it's not surprising that you feel the need to drive alone and armed.

Parking?

Having spent many hours driving around SF. I didn't think there were ANY parking spaces, smart or otherwise.

Re:Parking?

As a current resident of SF, I can assure you that there are, in fact, many parking spaces! They're just not anywhere you'd really want to go...

Ahh... "smart", not "Smart"

And here I was thinking that parking lots were starting to mark out half-size spaces for Swatch Smart cars.

Great ... make everybody speed to the same spot

This scheme will lead to road rage on an unprecedented scale. Every time a spot becomes free there'll be a dozen people making a mad dash for it.

Re:

Pfft, we have this system here in Sydney shopping centres. If all the spots are taken, people simply cruise around looking for people leaving, same as always. Fantastic when it is only 80% full or so however.

Let me fix that for you...

1. Add reservation option. Mark the spot as yours before you get there.
Drive calmly to the spot, as central server knows how far you are from the spot and it won't start charging you for the time it takes you to get there driving at the allowed speed.
2. Add red LEDs to the parking spot markers. Have them light up when the space is reserved. Have them turned off by sending a code from your mobile.
3. Add option to report people taking your reserved spot. Have tow-trucks ready and waiting.
Also have option to charge them for "stealing" your reserved parking spot, since you have already paid for it.
4. Profit!

Pulas

Paying by phone has been a standard procedure in Budapest, Hungary for the last 4 years. Just send an SMS and there you go, another hour or so, depending on your SMS. Each parking district has its separate phone number, so there's no need for fancy high tech equipment, just a few billboards.

Only few technical details

I would like to know more about the kinds of technology they are using. There are tons of interesting issues like the communication technology, security, energy supply, ...
Unfortunately, the article does not provide many details so I looked for the web page of the company: http://streetlinenetworks.com/ [streetlinenetworks.com] - However, there isn't much more information to be found there either...
Anyway, it will be exciting to see a real-world wireless sensor network operating on such a large scale!

Japan

Japan has something similar to this, albeit with parking lots rather than metered curb spaces, which don't exist to my knowledge. When you enter a dense commercial district, overhead LED signs show a map of the neighbourhood with parking areas colour-coded according to whether there are vacancies or not.

Doesn't Solve the Problem

While it sounds cool and all, I don't understand how this is going to solve anything. If people are circling the blocks searching for parking, it's because there are no spots, not because they can't find them. This system doesn't create more parking spaces, it just fuels a feeding frenzy. Right now, if a spot opens up, the only people that know about it are the drivers on that particular street. With this new system, the spot will announce itself to dozens of vehicles in all the surrounding blocks, and there will be a mad dash to get to that spot. It will create traffic congestion. What they need is to tear down a few optimally placed buildings, and put in some multi-storey parking garages.

Isn't it illegal to use a cellhone while driving?

Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones.

So let me get mind around this, California bans cellphones [sfgate.com] while behind the wheel but will possibly tie this to cellphones or even a confusing screen on your dashboard?
When will the madness end?

Re:Isn't it illegal to use a cellhone while drivin

The tickets they dole out will pay for the new parking system. It's a win-win situation!

NPR story: "Help for S.F. Parking Nightmare?"

Here's an NPR story [npr.org] from April 23, 2008 on this topic.

don't make the problem worse for bikes

The worst thing they could do is replace the many standard parking meters with just a few kiosks or with square posted meters that are incompatible with bike locks. Then we would have no place to lock up our bikes. It's hard to get the city to come out and install bike parking (plus there are never enough racks) and the privately installed racks are usually useless (they buy racks designed by people who don't ride bikes and/or install them too close to a wall.)

missing the point...

add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.

this is REALLY missing the point of "max 2 hours" limits on meters. they were never meant to be a replacement for all-day parking in a garage. they were meant to be a way to keep commuters and all-day tourists from hogging up a spot all day, keeping locals and casual shoppers (and those visiting municipal facilities or medical offices) from having convenient access.

by allowing someone to just casually "push a button" from where they are and hold the spot another two hours, they effectively have created a new commuter spot and while its nice that the city gets the money, it makes things worse for the locals who actually need access for only an hour or two.

Re:

Yes, Portland has that technology. There are also signs at the ends of rows indicating how many free spots there are. A sign at the entrance shows how many free spots there are on each floor of the garage.

It really makes short term parking at the airport nicer. You are effectively directed to a spot.

Also...

When crossing the bridges into downtown there are signs showing the number of open spots in each of the city run garages. Slightly helpful in choosing among garages in the general area you are