Bloatware Removal Threatens PC Industry Profits

Anti-Globalism sends along a piece on how a consumer-friendly service is not so good for PC manufacturers. "Before they ship PCs to retailers like Best Buy, computer makers load them up with lots of free software. For $30, Best Buy will get rid of it for you. That simple cleanup service is threatening the precarious economics of the personal computer industry. Software companies pay hundreds of millions of dollars to PC makers like Hewlett-Packard to install their photo tools, financial programs, and other products, usually with some tie-in to a paid service or upgrade. With margins growing thinner than most laptops, this critical revenue can make the difference between profit and loss for the computer makers, industry analysts say."

We call this the linux philosophy

Thankfully, Linux comes pretty free of bloatware. I guess they don't like that artificially inflated revenues by shoving crapware in people's faces is now heading back towards "realistic revenues by giving people what they actually want"?

I seem to recall a time way back when some company actually installed gator with their pc's bloatware.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

The people have already spoken. They want the best hardware specs on the side for the least money with little care about measures of quality that require a little more knowledge. When was the last time you heard of anyone buying an airplane ticket based on anything other than price and time?

Other companies already build similar computers without bloatware, but the prices are higher and they have fewer customers.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

Actually I know a fair number of people who won't fly particular airlines if there's any reasonable alternative available because of the bad service they've gotten from them. It's obviously not unlimited, for instance they might be willing to pay an extra 10% to avoid the undesirable airline but not an extra 30%, but they will pay a certain amount extra not to have to deal with something they've had problems with before.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

Seat size, spacing, food quality, staff friendliness. There are lots of things on airlines that people gripe about, but will never pay more for.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

I'm not going to take advice from someone who doesn't know that "douche nugget" is two words, you illiterate douche nugget.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

Air France is a "no go" on my list. Rude behavior [...]

What part of Air France don't you understand?

(No offense intended, it was just too easy...)

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

Like most nerds I build my own PC's, but I also help teach non-techie friends and family to order parts and assemble their own pc's.

They're all surprised when they find out it's not rocket science, and they end up with a better pc than they'd get at Best Buy for a fraction of the cost, custom built to their needs and sans bloatware. Many have gone on to build their next generation pc without my help.

I think that's a bigger threat to retail PC sales than removing bloatware, the current generation who are growing up with gadgets and computers will be even more likely to take on building their own computers. It really makes no sense to buy a retail pc, they cost more, they come with stuff you don't need, they're missing stuff you do need, they're little more than marketing in a box. I think the only reason people buy them is because they are intimidated by the prospect of building their own, or don't realize they're being gamed.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

I used to feel that the same way, but the last time I looked at building a basic box for a family member I found that I basically couldn't beat Dell's prices - maybe $50, but not enough to compensate for the extra effort of buying pieces and assembling them.

At the high end I think you are correct, if only because I can cut back on expensive components I don't care about.

But given the economies of scale that the big operators have, it is hard to beat them significantly on price.

Re:We call this the linux philosophy

If Linux was sold in retail channels and had marketshare like Windows, the same exact thing would happen. Quicken, Adobe XX, Roxio XX, Turbotax, etc. would all have Linux versions that would get preinstalled just the same (along with a host of 'update' programs from the manufacturer and those software vendors. It would be the same on OS X if they licensed it to 3rd party PC makers. It's just the marketshare and how Windows is sold that causes this, not Windows itself.

Not sure how I feel about this...

On the one hand, I think this is a sleazy practice and I'll be happy to see it go.

On the other hand, it's simple enough for someone who knows what they're doing to just reformat the computer with a fresh install of their OS of choice, so the discount you get on your PC for it is pretty nice.

I suspect that if this practice does die out, it'll mean the big guys are on slightly less uneven footing with the little mom & pop PC shops, so I guess that's always a good thing.

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

Speaking of Mom and Pops, I for one welcome this change (no memes intended).

I'm getting tired of having my mom and dad (not to mention the other umpteen dozens of people in my life who are in the same boat) call and ask what program xyz does, when I don't have their computer, have never heard of xyz, and can only make broad guesses as to the purpose of the program based on the name. I mean, sure, most are genuinely helpful, but it's not like computers come with big thick welcome guides anymore like they used to.

Anything that helps make life easier for my mom or dad when they get a new computer helps make my life easier as a side effect, and I'm okay with that. Plus, it helps us to figure out what's supposed to be there when we come over and work on their computers. Hopefully it will also be the end of my sister-in-laws complaining that their free game that came with their computer just closed on them and won't re-open... This always leads me to have this fun and exciting conversation

"Did you read the screen or did you just call me instead? ...
Uh huh, now read me what it says ...
Uh huh, so when it says you've played for an hour and you should now purchase the game, what does that mean to you? ...
Well I would guess that it was a free trial, to get you hooked, so that you will give them money. I would suggest that you get up and walk away from the computer though, as you'll need to come up for air instead of playing [the same bakery game with lots of different skins so it looks like a dog salon or whatever] ...
No, I don't know where to get the full version for free ...
No, I won't just 'make it work', you'll have to pay the $$$ ...
Okay, well I'm at work, bye!"

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

Wouldn't that be a compliment 'round these parts?

Even footing

I suspect that if this practice does die out, it'll mean the big guys are on slightly less uneven footing with the little mom & pop PC shops, so I guess that's always a good thing.

I think we've also hit on one of the reasons Apple computers cost more than similar machines from Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al: Apple doesn't load down their Macs with a lot of third-party bloatware.

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

On the other hand, it's simple enough for someone who knows what they're doing to just reformat the computer with a fresh install of their OS of choice, so the discount you get on your PC for it is pretty nice.

Oh? How's that? I buy a laptop for business use. I am keenly interested in keeping on the safe side of licensing because I don't want the BSA jackboots on my back. I haven't bought a boxed copy of Windows so do not have an installer disk. The OEM media restores my drive to the same state as when I first brought it home.

I'm an IT guy and totally happy with do-it-yourself; I'm typing this on a system I built from Newegg parts. Still, it's not at all obvious to me how I'd clean up that laptop without involving The Pirate Bay or shelling out for official installation disks.

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

I call shenanigans. An IT guy that has never heard of the PC Decrapifier [pcdecrapifier.com]

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

I do Unix. I bought the laptop to run Quickbooks and some industry-specific applications. I appreciate the link, but the point was that you don't have to be a complete babe in the woods to have these sorts of problems.

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

I conditionally accept your call of shenanigans on my shenanigans on his shenanigans as it was unclear whether we were restricted to the almost impossible task of a clean windows install, however I must retain my call of shenanigans on his shenanigans for that more narrow case. I also reserve the right to reinstate my full call of shenanigans on his shenanigans in the future, if such a time comes to pass that React OS manages to finish their open source reimplementation of windows XP, allowing one to compile a windows compatible operating system from scratch.

Re:Not sure how I feel about this...

This isn't always true. My fiancee got a laptop a year or so ago that came with no discs whatsoever. It gave you the option of burning restore discs, which included all the bloatware. There was no way, short of buying a retail copy of Vista or going pirate, to reformat/install without the bloatware. Fortunately most of it uninstalled fairly cleanly, but "just format and reinstall!!" isn't always an option.

Your failed business model is not my problem

The phrase 'Adapt or die' applies to corporations, too. The fact that people will pay $30 to have this crap removed should be telling you something.

Re:Your failed business model is not my problem

The phrase 'Adapt or die' applies to corporations, too.

Actually, it's "Adapt or get legislation passed protecting your business model", but thank you for playing.

Advertising

The bloatware construes more advertising & product placement (literally, oddly) than a constructive service. This sounds a lot like getting a TiVo or the like in order to scrub commercials out of your favorite shows.

Do that many people really sign up for the full versions of the software that comes on their computers?

Simple solution

Maybe the computers these days are too cheap. If you're not making enough money and this software is pissing people off, just remove the software and raise the price. It's not like most people are going to start building their own computers.

Remove the crappy software, raise the price, and sell the computer as a "premium" edition. People aren't going to stop buying computers.

Sell PCs for the right bloody price then!

The current policy is extortion on non-savvy users. It's like a car dealership filling your new car with trash and charging you to take it out again!

Drop the gimmicks, and get into selling PCs as a business. Get the markup right, make a profit, and compete. If people WANT to buy computers that are $30 cheaper and full of crap, that's their decision. Don't regulate it either way - do what the market can stand.

A company should never *use* its customers

It is abusive for a company to take advantage of their otherwise simple business relationships with their customers.

When a company uses a customer's business relationship to gain even more money by selling that customer's information, by loaded unwanted software (that invariably kills the machine's performance), by inserting ads, or even subscribing them to mailing lists of "their partners," it all amounts to abuse of the business relationship outside of the desired results expected by the customer.

Any time a company annoys a customer, they risk losing that customer. Just because "everyone does it" is no excuse for doing so. Even my preferred vendors do this and while I have learned to live with it by not even powering on the computer in its default configuration in most cases, instead installing the OS from scratch, it is a lot of work that should be needless.

To be clear, the current culture of using or leveraging customers to make additional profits is bad for core business.

PC decrapifyer

So they charge $30 to run PC Decrapifyer? http://pcdecrapifier.com/ [pcdecrapifier.com]