Windows 7 Trades Email and Photo Apps For Downloadable Ones

arcticstoat writes "Microsoft has said that it plans to remove a lot of the standard apps from Windows 7 in order to make the new OS 'cleaner.' Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which will no longer be included with the operating system as standard. Instead, equivalent versions of the apps will be available from Microsoft's Windows Live download service as optional free downloads, much like the new BETA versions of the apps that Windows Live offers today." Meanwhile, jammag writes that "tech pundit Mike Elgan posits that the rushed-to-market Windows 7 — due in 2010, now being beta released this October — may in fact merely be Vista with new packaging.

While this may not please some...

I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.

That way I can add what I see fit, much like the Server OS.

Hey it's a step in the right direction.

Re:While this may not please some...

I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.

Exactly! I know from a marketing standpoint you want to cram in as much of your own products as possible, in order to keep your brand in front of the customer, but having a truly modular OS would be very nice indeed.

As a "non-technical user" there are a lot of Windows services that I don't use that would be nice to remove without having to worry about undermining the stability and underlying structure of the OS.

Re:While this may not please some...

I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.

That way I can add what I see fit, much like the Server OS.

Hey it's a step in the right direction.

Next, they should create some kind of ... I don't know, package or application manager maybe, which would allow users to easily add/remove programs ... might have to wait until Windows 8 or 9 for that, though. But, never fear, Microsoft can innovate it. :-)

Re:While this may not please some...

I know you were just kidding, but I'd like to contribute.

The Windows Add/Remove Programs menu doesn't even begin to cover what should be removable from the Operating System. Internet Explorer is the back end for a number of programs and cannot be fully removed, a few programs even rely on MSN Messenger and will not allow you to remove it if they are installed. There are all sorts of extra services running, like one for office that waits for it to be installed so it can clean it up. There's Alexa, a never ending assortment of drivers for ancient equipment. The system restore and hibernation services are installed and running whether you want them or not. And even in XP (although this is worse in Vista) the indexing service.

There are replacements for every single one of these applications that are better than the original, yet there is no way to easily remove them. You should check out the nLite program for making your own Windows image to get an idea of all of the cruft that is built into Windows (and isn't anywhere in the add/remove programs menu). With Linux, everything outside of the Kernel can be removed, usually without even restarting. With Windows you need to reinstall just to remove most of this junk, and that's assuming you have the administrative knowledge to make your own custom image.

I'm a little confused actually

When I recommend the Linux distribution I use, one of the things I promote is that:

1. It's fast.
2. AND it has everything you need from the start.

By this, I mean that you can get set up and ideally have a complete working system right away. Browse the web with a strong browser, set up your email right away, view PDFs (with a fast PDF viewer), listen to music, write documents, spreadsheets, etc. Now, in practice some things don't work right away, but for that I blame general difficulty of installing any operating system (driver issues etc.) and licensing issues (goddamn MP3 license). I think installing an OS will always be a PITA, just on varying levels. Licensing is getting better with more distros offering paid legal licenses for MP3.

Anyway, what I'm getting to is that I feel a complete OS offers a solid platform on which to build. From my experience, casual users are satisfied with the included apps in a modern Linux distro save for maybe a better music player for the music buffs or better photo management for digital camera users. I think a minimal OS translates more to a Slack or Gentoo approach, which I doubt the everyday user wants. This also encourages OEMs to put their crap into EVEN MORE basic uses.

I think the association of Windows and bloat comes not from included MS apps (maybe not including Movie Maker), but instead from OEMs putting their shit on these computers. Good for Microsoft for making ANY change, but I think the real reduction in bloat happens at the installer level, not the OS producer. Let me know when a pig sprouts wings and the OEMs start putting less shit on their builds.

As long...

As long as they make sure that OEMs include some. Any, doesn't matter if its Outlook, Windows Live Mail, or whatever third party or open source app you want... Else customers will not be too happy out of the box.

However, historically, with other things that were not included (like, let say, anti-virus for a while), the total trash that OEMs put on it (because they're paid to) really sucks ass, even if there are free alternatives that are really, really good.

Customers are not going to be happy...

Stupid

Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail...

Er... I guess you don't see it this way, Microsoft, but I sure as hell always thought that checking your e-mail was basic computer functionality in this day and age. But hey, what do I know?

Microsoft can talk about a "cleaner" OS all they want, but watch them change their tune when people scream about not being able to check their e-mail on a new PC.

Re:Stupid

Dude, normal users use webmail. They don't even know how to set up pop to download their email.

Will they take MSIE out as well?

That would be newsworthy!

Re:Will they take MSIE out as well?

Nothing like not being able to download a web browser because you don't have a web browser!

It' not about the apps

It's about the training of the consumer to accept upselling to subscription based services.

New Vista?

Well, if it's Vista minus the bloatware, DRM and huge resource requirements... it might be actually a decent operating system.

Interesting that Microsoft appears to be actually listening to their users over Vista. That, or they're panicking and being forced to...

I'm a slashdot user....

and no matter what Microsoft does I'm going to bitch and complain about how they should/shouldn't have done it years ago and that Linux is far superior.

Re:This webification has gone too far.

Not RTFA is bad enough, but apparently you didn't even bother to read the summary.

I can do better than that

I didn't even read the *title, so I'll just cover all my bases:
Steve Ballmer, the RIAA, Sarah Palin, and software patents are evil and must be *stopped!

Re:Windows 7

No, it's Vista Service Pack 2.

Re:Windows 7

Vista SP2 is going to remove my email (Thunderbird) and photo apps (Picasa)?

Re:Windows 7

That is what Microsoft Malicious Software Removal Tool does .... maliciously removes software.

Re:Windows 7

it's Vista Service Pack 2.

It's true, you know (though it will probably be Vista SP3, as they'll need to roll a new desktop GUI). Microsoft has recognized that the corporate customer base didn't warm to Vista and is "waiting for Windows 7". No dummy, Microsoft will release *something* branded "Windows 7" ASAP.

Of course, this may blow up big time if the fundamental issues with Vista aren't resolved. Since one fundamentel issue seems to be "it doesn't add anything important over XP", MS may be in trouble here. Big companies skip one release of Windows all the time, but MS really doesn't companies to stop and ask "wait a minute, why do we do these upgrades again?".

Re:Windows 7

No, it's Vista Beta 3

Also known as the "Avoid Further EU Fines" edition.

Abort, Retry, Fail?

I think the old error message ABORT, RETRY, FAIL? pretty much sums up Vista.

But it's not vista Beta 3 as much as it named after the movie SEVEN.

it's got the seven deadly sins including sloth and gluttony.

And at the end, you'll with it was your head in the box.

Re:Windows 7

Okay - jokes over. Everyone can go now.

Seriously - why are we making this so difficult?

We have Windows like this:

Windows 3 (pre-9x?)
Windows 3.11 for Workgroups (NT3)
Windows NT (NT4)
Windows 95 (Win9x)
Windows 98 (Win9x - 95 with actual USB support)
Windows ME (Win9x - 98, but broken out of the box)
Windows 2000 (NT5)
Windows XP (NT5 - 2000 but with Fisher-Price lickable interface)
Windows Vista (NT6)

So - that brings us to Windows 7, presumably NT7. What we're really speculating is that despite the labelling, Windows 7 is actually still NT6, but possibly the latest version of ME. Since 98, you notice a trend?

98, ME (9x)
2000, XP (NT5)
Vista, ? (NT6)
? (NT7)

Looks to me like he's onto something.

Re:standard apps?

Reinstalled your XP anytime recently? There's a basic version installed with the OS, assuming you didn't customize it with nLite.

Re:Yes, let's remove the two most-used programs

Partly right. Microsoft didn't get prosecuted for merely being a monopoly or for bundling apps with their OS. They were prosecuted for abusing their monopoly to force competitors out of the market with unsavory tactics including threatening their own hardware partners. Intel wanted to develop a faster, cleaner Java compiler. Microsoft called a meeting insinuating that they were going to favor AMD in their development if they did. The made sure that their OEMs understood that to keep their OEMs prices, the OEMs would not pre-load Netscape onto their machines, etc.

For Apple to do the same thing, they would have to threaten BestBuy and Fry's that loading Picasa2 would be not tolerated and the like. Also Apple would make it nearly impossible to uninstall Mail or iPhoto. Right now to do that is the same as any other app: delete it. Now you can't fully uninstall QuickTime as some of the basic libraries of QuickTime are used in their Quartz rendering engine. But nothing stops you from using another movie player.

Re:Honestly, what's a "research"

Except minwin was chopped from Windows 7-- and instead they're going with an 'evolution' of the NT-series Vista kernel.