Windows 7 To Be 256-Core Aware

unassimilatible writes "As new features of Windows 7 continue to trickle out, ZDNet is now reporting that it will scale to 256 processors. While one has to wonder, like with Vista, how many of the teased features will actually make it into the final OS, I think we can all agree, 256 cores is enough for anybody." This Mark Russinovich interview has some technical details (Silverlight required).

Blocking up the fail whales blowhole

(Silverlight required).

My browser already supports audio, video, vector graphics and a scripting language.

Re:Blocking up the fail whales blowhole

So why the limit?

Are they only having a byte to store the core ID?

Today it's feasible to build yourself a machine with 32 cores using 4-core AMD:s 4-core processors and a Tyan n4250QE [tyan.com.tw] with a M4985 [tyan.com.tw] daughterboard. This will give you 64 cores to play with.

In a not too far future we will see processors with a larger number of cores and therefore we will soon bang our heads into that wall. At least those of us that toy with parallelism.

Enough?

I think we can all agree, 256 cores is enough for anybody.

I just put the finishing touches on my 257 core machine, you insensitive clod!

Re:Enough?

I think there is an error in the summary, I believe that 256 cores is the minimum requirement for Windows 7, not the supported number of cores, so your machine might actually be fine with 7.

Re:Enough?

Like anybody in their right mind would ever consider putting windows on a 1024 processor machine used for 'real high end stuff'.

Let's remember for a moment where most installations of windows will be.

Re:Enough?

Let's remember for a moment where most installations of windows will be.

In Africa [slashdot.org]?

Another excuse not to RTFA

Suggestion for new /. poll. Who has installed Silverlight? (Silverlight required)

No Silverlight here.

No Silverlight, no Moonlight, it's bad enough that I've got to deal with Microsoft's broken security zones at work, I'm not going to start running son-of-ActiveX at home.

Re:Another excuse not to RTFA

Opera browser and NO Silverlight here. That said there is no article to read but an interview to watch and the summary is wrong - it only requires Silverlight if you're using Internet Explorer. It streams video (.wmv) just fine to me.

Linux: 4096

The most recent mainline Linux release has integrated mature patches for 4096 core scalability, that have been developed by high performance computing corporations and tested in the field for years. Previous versions were rated for "only" 1024 cores. That still makes 256 look like a Gameboy.

It must be really hard for Microsoft to compete in the HPC space. I almost feel bad for them. Almost.

Re:Linux: 4096

The most recent mainline Linux release has integrated mature patches for 4096 core scalability, that have been developed by high performance computing corporations and tested in the field for years. Previous versions were rated for "only" 1024 cores. That still makes 256 look like a Gameboy.

It must be really hard for Microsoft to compete in the HPC space. I almost feel bad for them. Almost.

I think these comparisons have to stop. They give Linux an unfair bias. Linux does not have to spend resources on things like cool names their releases, and wages for people with excellent chairthrowing abilities, so naturally they can instead use the resources on developing software. Come back when each release of Linux is given inspiring names like Linux XP and they have proper chairthrowing capabilities, then we shall make a fair assesment.

Re:Linux: 4096

Come back when each release of Linux [...]

You come back when WGA includes source code and a patch. Until then, I'll be sending my money in the direction of http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/source/ [linuxgenui...antage.org] and http://www.alienos.com/wp-content/uploads/linux_gen_adv_crack.patch [alienos.com]

Re:Linux: 4096

Linux XP [linux-xp.com]

Re:Linux: 4096

It's a moot point. It's likely that processors will eventually have more than 256 cores, but that's going to take a long time, I'm not necessarily convinced that we will. At some point we will hit the smallest possible transister size and I'm not sure that will leave physical room for all the extra cores without moving to a much larger chip size.

That being said, if we're still using Windows 7 when mainstream computers have more than 256 cores there's something very wrong going on. Linux probably will need that kind of scalability, but it's because of the sort of rolling release schedule where releases are expected to be based upon the previous version, if loosely at times.

Re:Linux: 4096

It won't take too long. Sun's T2 chip has 64 threads, and the T5440 that I have at the office has 4 chips in it, for 256 threads, all in a 4u chassis. Granted, it doesn't run windows, but seriously CMT chips are out and growing fast. BTW, the T2 cpu is only about an inch quare, and it's only done on 65nm tech, not even 40nm.

MS has a really bad habit of....

.... testing the waters via marketing that which may or not come into some form of existence.

They use the same tactic as well, to help suppress any interest a competitor might be getting with some technology by claiming they are doing the same, where often enough they kill teh support teh competitor was getting while never producing that which they claimed they were doing.

So take this current claim in such a light and you'll know "believe it when you know you have it and are using it, not even a split second before".

Yeah right ...

I won't believe a thing Microsoft says about Windows 7 until I see it. Microsoft is like a political candidate running for office. It makes a ton of promises you know it'll never keep.

Re:eh

Sigh, first off, it was 640kb of ram, and second off it's not even his quote. And additionally I'm not sure who really said it, but it wasn't Gates.

The 640kb wasn't meant in the long term it was meant at that point, a time when they were talking about how to divy up the limited ram. It was the sensible way to proceed, it's just that drivers and such didn't get loaded into the rest of the ram causing huge headaches for gaming.

Even at that point it was asinine to suggest that ram wouldn't become more common in machines. I think at that point they'd already seen ram increase by a few thousand percentage points easy if not more.

Re:eh

Except the architecture they chose was pretty much limited to 640, so i don't buy your argument.

Sure, soon afterwards ways around it was found, and eventually broken completely but it was a HARD limit at one point and i don't give Bill credit for seeing beyond his nose due to his 'self importance' attitude, which has burnt him more then once ( but with billions in the bank, its easy to buy your way out of a mistake ).

It was also marketing spin against the competing motorola chips ( and systems ) which could address more. "you really don't need that extra headroom, stick with microsoft'

Re:eh

Supposedly it's an urban legend that he even said that, because no one on the internet can actually source the quote. And if the internet can't find it, then it probably doesn't exist. To sate those who want at least something, however, here is a relevant quote from 1989:

"I have to say that in 1981, making those decisions, I felt like I was providing enough freedom for 10 years. That is, a move from 64k to 640k felt like something that would last a great deal of time. Well, it didn't - it took about only 6 years before people started to see that as a real problem."

Re:Memory scaling

Linux supports NUMA which largely solves that problem, and ccNUMA which solves it even better. It's all about locality once again. Linux has been running on multi-thousand CPU machines for years, and has been optimised and refined by the stakeholders of those projects, so it's not a toy project to show off.

Re:Memory scaling

I'm reasonably sure 64 bit windows supports NUMA as well. I've worked with the IBM x3950, which is a NUMA architecture, and several of the folks (the minority, to be sure) whom I configured these systems for ultimately used windows.

Re:256 cores... pfft

256 cores means that it can be stored in a 16-byte flag

Er... there are 128 bits in 16 bytes. HTH.

Re:Hmm

To be fair, I think Microsoft this time around have been really careful with what they promise for Windows 7. Seems like they learned from their mistakes with Vista, and now that they have a stable, solid kernel (whether you'd like to believe it or not), a lot of the headaches from Vista's development are simply not there.

Re:Hmm

Yes, this decade has been about TCDGADA (The customers do give a damn about:). First networking inflexibility, then security, then interface, then performance. Now if we can hold their feet to the fire about crippleware (five editions, only one with the all the features that matter), file formats, and equitable interoperability, Windows might become a product we work with instead of around.