Microsoft's Office Web Will Do iPhone, Linux, Mac 202
CWmike writes "Gregg Keizer reports Microsoft has clarified that its upcoming Office Web service will be available to users running Mac OS X and Linux, as well as from Apple's iPhone. The key to this cross platform-friendliness: Office Web will run in Firefox and Safari browsers, in addition to IE. Introduced last month, Office Web is a lightweight version of its Office suite that runs as an online service. I think it's time for Google to embrace OpenOffice.org to take on Microsoft head-on, as CW blogger Preston Gralla has argued for and described how to go about it."
The real key is AJAX (Score:2, Insightful)
So the real key to this is using AJAX like everyone else (Google, Yahoo, Slashdot, my employer's internal web apps, my grandmother) instead of some proprietary ActiveX bullshit.
Way to go, Microsoft!
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Yeah, I really don't understand why people complain about MS Office when Open Office runs like a turd MS Office does not.
Microsoft certainly has one good product; Office is great as long as you ignore Access.
Re:The real key is AJAX (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a reason that it's only part of the MS Office suite and not the MS Office suite in and of itself.
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Damned T9 software...
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While it's pretty easy to make a horrid database in Access, bear in mind that if there were no Access those same 'Power Users' would be making their 'databases' in Excel instead. This is at least an order of magnitude worse as far as extracting useful data goes. Been there, done that, got the gray hair to prove it.
Re:That sounds a little snobby... (Score:5, Insightful)
But frequently a project or analysis needs more capabilities than Excel provides, and the project isn't yet seen as business critical, and the timeliness or expense of getting IT on it is prohibitive. Access shines in these instances where a non-IT person can do some rather sophisticated data acquisition and analysis.
If years later you get called in to detangle an Access database that through feature-and-scope-creep has turned into an important business tool that needs a higher level of reliability, take it as a triumph of the common man and modern software, and as your responsibility and privilege to elevate this application to the next level.
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Don't bother trying to defend MSAccess around here. While i agree with you totally that it has its place, and does well there, people are too thick headed to appreciate the truth.
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"While i agree with you totally that it has its place, and does well there, people are too thick headed to appreciate the truth."
I would have let your comment slide except for that(above) statement. Actually, I only have a problem with the statement after the last comma. (...people are too thick headed to appreciate the truth.")
You, sir, are too thin to appreciate reality and the truth. Crawl back under your Redmond rock...this has been dealt with with FOSS for a long time now.
The 'truth' as you subscribe t
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You think access is bad? Have you _seen_ what some people do with excel?
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Isn't that the same thing?
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OpenOffice 3.0 has one feature I like: PDF import.
It sucks very, very hard compared to Office 2003 for quite literally everything else I have tried to use it for.
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I don't see how that is really useful. Shouldn't you already have the original text version of such a document? PDF was never made for 'importing' and editing.
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You'd think, but on occasion I've lost .doc's I've exported to PDF, but still had the PDF I emailed to someplace (thanks, GMail!).
Handy feature, and I'm not paying through the nose to get it from Adobe.
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PDF was never made for 'importing' and editing.
True, but the reality is, users want to be able to do just that.
Developers who satisfy that wish are going to do very well for themselves over the next few years.
Re:The real key is AJAX (Score:4, Insightful)
Not sure where to start with this. There are many cases where MS Office runs like a turd and OO.org does not.
On the whole, MS Office is a superior product, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas in which OO.org does better, or that there aren't areas in which MS Office is a pure dung heap.
Word vs Writer: For me, this is a draw. Both packages do most of the same things equally well. Word has more (and more easily accessible) 'power' features, but it's something of a fool's errand to try and produce a complicated document in either.
At least with OO.org you have xml source to look at when the formatting goes awry. With MS Office, things seem to change on whim from system to system or depending on the phase of the moon, and there's no way to figure out what is happening or why (this is a common theme with all the MS Office apps).
As far as trouble-shooting odd formatting, MS Word still lags behind WordPerfect 5.0, where you can see from the embedded codes exactly what will happen with your formatting. With Word, you're essentially praying that WYS is really WYG.
Excel vs Calc: For now Excel is the clear winner, although with a few caveats. It's much better at doing things like inserting rows and columns -- inserts preserve formatting of surrounding cells, while in Calc inserts tend to get default formatting. Charting in Excel is also better, at least currently, in Excel.
My big issue with Excel is its utter failure to handle properly comma-quote csv. For cells containing numbers, Excel will ignore its own formatting of those cells as text, and still export them as numbers -- meaning lots of havoc when dealing with things like IDs and Zip codes that have leading zeros. Also, try changing the format of something that looks like a date to text. Now try changing it back to a date.
Powerpoint vs Impress: Not so much a question of which is better as which is less bad. On the whole Impress seems to mangle things a lot less, and seems to make far fewer (wildly incorrect) assumptions about what you're trying to do.
It's easier to throw a presentation together in Powerpoint, but nearly impossible to make it look really good. (If you've got a Powerpoint presentation you think looks really good, you've never seen a really good-looking presentation.)
Access vs Base: This is a tough one, mainly because while these products look similar they are actually very different.
Access actually does pretty well for what it is and within its own limitations. Yes, it is a toy database but it does let you do database-type operations on small data sets quickly and easily.
On the other hand, its ~2 GB filesize limit, its nasty habit of corrupting data, and it's baffling default query window behavior all mean that it's not something you can use for serious work.
If your data set has tens of thousands of rows, Access can handle it just fine. If you've got a million rows, forget about it. If you want your database to scale, forget about it.
Base is not a toy database, or even a database at all. It's a simple frontend for a proper RDBMS system, like MySQL or PostgreSQL. As such, it looks more spare but is far more powerful and scalable.
Outlook vs Anything Else: Winner: Anything else. I simply cannot take anything MS says about search or accessibility or convenience seriously until they fix this steaming pile of garbage. As long as it takes minutes to search my ~250 MB Exchange mailbox, and until Outlook can properly handle message threading I simply have nothing positive to say about this turd.
So where do Google Apps fit in? What they lack in polish and functionality, they make up for in speed, accessibility, and collaboration. They're not there yet, but the thread
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For the search to be fast you need to be running Windows Desktop Search Application. For most people that isn't a problem but I've seen some IT departments refuse to install it. It even does Exchange searching client side (assuming your in Cached Exchange mode)
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I haven't used 2007 at all. We're all XP at work (with no plans to migrate) and I'm Linux at home.
But does Outlook 2007 do real threading? Many people I correspond with know enough to bottom-post and trim messages. This can make it very frustrating when only incoming mail is arranged in 'conversations' but I need to search sent mail to get to what I said.
I d
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Can you please use a few more dollar signs when you post? Right now you're at the point where I simply dismiss whatever you're saying. But verily, if you use a few dozen more, I'll start to think you're just disabled and take your opinion seriously in the name of equality and progress.
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*shudder*
Re:The real key is AJAX (Score:5, Informative)
So the real key to this is using AJAX like everyone else (Google, Yahoo, Slashdot, my employer's internal web apps, my grandmother) instead of some proprietary ActiveX bullshit.
Way to go, Microsoft!
The first component to allow client-side scripts to issue HTTP requests (XMLHTTP) was originally written by the Outlook Web Access team. It soon became a part of Internet Explorer 5.0. Renamed XmlHttpRequest and standardized by the World Wide Web Consortium,[1] it has since become one of the cornerstones of the Ajax technology used to build advanced web applications.
Re:The real key is AJAX (Score:5, Insightful)
that's true. XmlHttpRequest is indeed something that Microsoft has done right and that we should thank them for. and i think it's one of the rare examples showing that Microsoft can be a positive contributor to the web community. so it might actually be a good thing that Microsoft is trying to get into mobile web services. since they do not control the mobile browser market and can't just make everyone switch to IE, this will force MS to keep cross-browser compatibility in mind when developing these advanced web apps.
and as most web developers know, cross browser compatibility is probably one of the most difficult/laborious aspects of web design/development. and the reason for this is largely due to MS's intransigent habit of flouting established open web standards in developing IE. most web browsers are fairly reasonable when it comes to W3C compliance, and it doesn't take much to get a complex layout or application to work across Opera, Firefox, Konquerer, and the majority of common browsers. but IE is always the single browser that requires endless tweaking and inconvenient CSS hacks to get a cross-browser compatible web page.
now that Microsoft has to deal with cross-browser compatibility issues themselves, perhaps they will finally realize the insanity that is caused by their inconsiderate development philosophy. instead of disregarding open web standards and then wasting thousands of man-hours to work around the inconsistencies in browser implementations that they themselves introduce, maybe--just maybe--they will stop being a poor corporate netizen and work with the W3C rather than against it.
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My guess is it will be mostly Silverlight with some light ajax to make it functional where SL is not available. MS will have a major hook in it one way or another.
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This is not AJAX other than treating JavaScript as a bootstrap loader for SilverLight's .Net VM. It only works in Firefox and Safari in the same way that Flash or Java Applets do.
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Why guess if you can read TFA?
Office Web will use Microsoft's Silverlight rich Internet plug-in for added functionality such as extra zooming or prettified fonts, though users aren't required to use it, he said.
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Meanwhile, here's another MS source [on10.net], and here's what it says:
Q: Do the Office Web Applications require Internet Explorer?
A: No! Office Web applications will work across multiple platforms and browsers including Safari and Firefox, too.
Q : Is Silverlight required in order to use the Office Web Applications?
A: No! Silverlight
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Way to go, Microsoft!
Please. They do this only because Google is leading in the game. If they really were after interoperability Sharepoint would properly work in Firefox (and Opera, ...).
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make light weight software all the time! (Score:2, Insightful)
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Thank you. :)
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OK then, emacs...
Wait, never mind. He said "light weight"
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This whole Ms Office versus OO cock-fighting is so stupid.
I use Linux at home, I couldn't use MS Office even if I wanted. And if I used Windows, I couldn't afford MS Office, so what's the big deal?
If you don't like OO, get some money, buy MS Office and be happy.
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I actually do use openoffice, simply because it's free.
I also use Lotus Notes, because I have to, and dislike it very much.
I also use Symphony... dislike that very much, too.
And I use MS Office occasionally because I have to. But the point is, Office is actually a pretty good product and there isn't much substitute for it when it comes to actual professional document stuff... unless you can "get away" with OO.org.
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Erm, clarification... Symphony is more or less similar to OO which I don't really dislike... but Symphony/Java stuff in general is so slow. Sometimes painfully slow. Especially with spreadsheets, I have found.
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Honestly, MS Office is faster than OOo, effective and good.
The problem with MS Office is proprietary formats.
Depends.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's time for Google to embrace OpenOffice.org to take on Microsoft head-on, as CW blogger Preston Gralla has argued for and described how to go about it.
Doesn't this really depend on whether or not Google WANTS to compete head to head with Microsoft. You don't make business decisions out of spite.
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But this is how we got Lambourghini 8)
Lambourghini goes back to Enzo Ferrari with a complaint about his crappy car, and Enzo tells him to "Go back to your Tractor Factory!"
So now we have the Countach, Diablo, etc. 8) Excellent alternatives to the dominant fast Fiats Ferrari make 8)
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Clippy: "Hi, it looks like you're writing a letter. Would you like some help with that... using free templates from MyResume.com that provides the best offerings of free CV and job related resumes to give you that edge in your job hunt".
get the idea why Google would want to compete on an online Office suite?
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You don't make business decisions out of spite.
Sure you do. But only if your name is Scott McNealy.
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...seeing as Microsoft pretty my does all it can (legally or not) to destroy
everyone and everything that stands in their way, it would be pretty of naive
of Google to think that they can get away with anything less than total war.
That's how Microsoft treats the rest of the industry. Google is already
percieved as a threat. Attempting to do something that could rid Microsoft
of one of it's cash cows is not going to change anything with regards to how
Microsoft treats Google.
Re:Depends.... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually yes.
MS Office 2007 has a Sun developed plugin that allows ODF support, but even better, the next service pack from Microsoft is adding native ODF support without a plugin.
In the darkness bind them (Score:5, Interesting)
At least with Google's one i can download the docs in OpenOffice/Word/RTF/HTML format, thats the other "compatibility" that MS Web Office should provide too.
Re:In the darkness bind them (Score:5, Interesting)
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I would agree it is important to be able for you to get your own data, This is an issue the companies policy not the Cloud Computing Model or the SaaS model, and msny SaaS companies do allow you to have the data. I didn't see when I skimmed the article about anything saying you can't get your own copy of the data. Otherwise Office Online would be useless. Like back in the 80's where they sold computers and said how good they would be for kids except they didn't have a printer attachment so they couldn't giv
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I just wonder what feature won't be available in the other browsers.
I'm still waiting for a good Linux or OS X implimentation of the MS Communicator client.
Re:In the darkness bind them (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think he's against cloud computing because he didn't think of it. I think he's against it because it encourages vendor lock-in (if you RTFA linked by the P) and puts your data under the control of a third party. Pretty much DIY-freedom is why Stallman is against cloud computing, a concept he advocated since he began sporting a 5 o'clock shadow.
I repeat the mantra "Our IT security is only as strong as our weakest link." at work. Unfortunately we still have to battle for even the most basic of precautions some times. Kind of ironic for a company that provides physical security access services.
Get your priorities straight (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be a great idea, if your goal is to hurt Microsoft's sales rather than high quality office software. This is a good example of how two faced people can be. The leg the open source community stands on is improving the offerings in specific types of software, yet somehow lose sight of it, thinking that eliminating an option is in everyone's best interest.
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Mod parent up, repeatedly.
Let me just say (Score:2, Interesting)
Before the bashing continues. That this is great news! On inital inspection Microsoft is doing what the market is asking for. If this changes in the future... well we shall see. But personally based on all of the uphevals that have been occuring I am going to trust Microsoft again and see how this pans out. Like it or not Office is a great office suite and since it moved to the ribbon bar is even better.
BTW No I am not a Microsoft fanboy, I use whatever tool is appropiate and frankly MSWord and Excel are br
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might i remember you to the fact, that microsoft released office:mac only for one reason: to stop supporting macs someday to force the users to buy windows?
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/05/2129253 [slashdot.org]
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you wrote:
>BTW No I am not a Microsoft fanboy, I
>use whatever tool is appropiate and
>frankly MSWord and Excel are brilliant
>pieces of software.
Word is a "brilliant" piece of software? It's a buggy unstable POS.
Brett
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I am going to trust Microsoft again
Famous last words...
Just... (Score:4, Insightful)
Slashdot will find something wrong and evil about (Score:2, Funny)
Sorry Microsoft. You can the offer openid. You can provide specs to samba and mono. You can deliver free cross platform software (Office Live).
But you'll never win slashdot's heart. Slashdot permanently hates you. Stop trying. Its a double-standard-irrational-childish-stupid kinda hate, but its double-standard-irrational-childish-stupid hate regardless.
Now, if Google did this same thing, well, they'd be treated like a god. Like when Google offered OpenID and they were applaused -- the day after You g
Re:Slashdot will find something wrong and evil abo (Score:3, Insightful)
While google has the potential to be just as evil, they at least really mean cross-platform. If their past history of cross-platform compatibility can be used as a guide -- OWA for example -- they mean "Designed for IE, will provide some functionality in other browsers so we can call it cross-platform." Recent versions of OWA have actually *reduced* cross-platform compatibility from what was a pretty usable webmail client to something that won't even let you edit Exchange filtering rules unless you're on MS
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As Microsoft continues to prepare for the 2009 2010 launch of Windows 7, it today issued a plea through its network of objective opinion-shapers: Don't let the journalists near it. [today.com]
"We understand that many journalists use Macs," said CNet marketing marketer Don Reisinger. "This means they necessarily suckle at the Satanic rear passage of Steve Jobs. We cannot countenance their bias. Journalists are responsible for all those signs outside computer shops offering to replace Vista with XP. When was the last t
Competition := good (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a classic example of why we should have competition. It only takes a bit of competition thrown in and suddenly our Linux platform is supported. Consumer lock-in is great for business but bad for consumers.
I wonder just how long this platform embracing will last though?
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I wonder just how long this platform embracing will last though?
I believe embracing is the first part of a three-step process. Not sure how the other two will pan out in this regard.
"just work" (Score:2)
Google isn't successful because of cross-platform, cross-browser goodness. They're successful because their products "just work". Much like Apple, in a sense.
Can Microsoft do that? Live Search eventually got there, but almost a decade late to the party. Let's see what the office team can do being only a few years late.
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I think you mean:
Vendor lock-in is great for one business but bad for everyone else (including all other business)
Cloud computing.... only if I get my own cloud!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Ok,I'm a pretty big geek.
Being able to access my stuff wherever I go has been my goal for a long time. When I was in college (before cheap USB sticks) I used to have a business card CD for my wallet with a java based ssh client (putty wasn't around yet) and a vncviewer executable. This way I could reach my stuff from the lab computers or anywhere else without installing anything. Realizing that wallet CDs suck I moved on to a web based solution. (try finding a wallet they actually fit in and then try to carry it everywhere without breaking it!) I had a javascript ssh client (mindterm) and a javascript vnc client on a webpage hosted from my machine. This worked... ok.... for the time.
My point is I get it... I get what is so convenient about cloud computing. but... is it really a good idea for allowing the placing of ones documents on someone else's machine (Mickeysoft, Google, etc...) become so commonplace? I realize 90% of what most people's data is going to be uninteresting and not worth getting concerned about. But... if what happens to the 10% of data that truly is sensative when erveryone's in the mindset of just use Google or just use Microsoft? IT guys/gals, do you really think the business suites in your company are going to even understand the differenct between working on a document hosted at some other company vs. running an office suite localy? Most will only know that this is what is easy, this is what they know, this is what their peers are using... For that matter, even people who do understand the difference, once they have been using the cloud for the unimportant data, are they even going to think about it or will it be second nature?
So... inaviteable as cloud computing seems to be, maybe it's time for an OSS web based Office Suite. Something that a company can install on it's own ssl encrypted web server, something that more adventurous home users can install in their own homes and use along with dynamic dns.
Now somebody else go write it :-)
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Cloud computing is fine for the typical Joe 6 pack user. The fact is most people are not competent enough to maintain their own internet connected computer and keep it secure.
Having your documents stored on a computer that is not secure is just as bad or worse that letting Google or MS store your documents. Power users and businesses can and will handle their own document storage.
Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
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When did they ever say that DirectX would work on Mac and Linux?
As for Silverlight, they've already paid to help Mono developers make Moonlight and said they'd offer free support to web developers trying to get Moonlight/Linux to work with their web site.
It's official: Internet Explorer != The Internet (Score:5, Funny)
Sending details to Redmond? (Score:2, Insightful)
a paperclip that wants to spy on you and send all your personal details back to Redmond.
That's the beauty of cloud computing, your personal details won't have to be send back to Redmond, they will be stored there from the very beginning.
let's see it first (Score:3, Interesting)
Before anyone tells Google that the sky is falling, let's see MS new vaporware in a real-life test first, shall we?
It wouldn't be the first time that they promise revolution, and deliver either nothing at all or a weak me-too product. So let's wait what it's really like. Complex applications are difficult to move to the web, and a "light" version often lacks the exact features that a good fraction of the users care about.
Won't get fooled again (Score:3)
See, I seem to vaguely recall a few hundred previous occasions in which Microsoft played this same game. It's amazing to me that anyone would still fall for it.
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Right.
First they embraced the Web browser, and I didn't say anything, because it didn't affect me
Then they extended the web browser with ActiveX, and I didn't say anything, because it didn't affect me
Once they got to the extinguish phase, there was no one left to complain
The title confused me..what 'do'? (Score:2)
Is it the same do as in "I'm doing your daughter"?
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Microsoft's Office Web Will Do [in] iPhone, Linux, Mac...
Of course, we've all heard that line before...
Personally I'll believe Microsoft will be fair to other web browsers when I see it. My wife is pissed at Microsoft because of all the headaches she has had recently using Firefox 3.0 with msn hotmail. Not only does i
Why this article is bullcrap (Score:4, Insightful)
Moonlight? yeah right... Assuming MS doesn't add Silverlight-only stuff as a requirement for their online office stuff, they will eventually do once it is famous enough. Thanks Miguel...
Google apps run in anything that can run javascript, does not require you to install .net or violate MS' patents and I am quite sure it will be more feature-complete and better implemented, this web stuff is definitely not MS' strength, they are still on that ridiculous windows-only obsession...
Hotmail (Score:2)
> The key to this cross platform-friendliness: Office Web will run in Firefox and Safari browsers, in addition to IE
Yeah right. We have heard THAT before, haven't we? This is coming from the same company that forced Hotmail users to use the new "Live" version, which complains about Firefox every time you access it and doesn't allow Linux users to even send or reply to messages until they change the vendor ident string!!!! And they claimed THAT was supposed to work. Even yesterday it is still broken,
Will Office Web support VBA macros? (Score:2)
Lies, all lies (Score:5, Insightful)
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Should I really go back to OpenOffice, and being able to edit tables reliably? Or should I move to Visagra/MS Office 2007, and a life of viruses and screen candy? Help me! I just can't decide for myself!
Yeah, right. Enjoy destroying your Exchange prefs (Score:2, Interesting)
In yet another breathtaking installment of Krang's Happy BS Hour, Frankestein and co. seek to convince a weary world that they will make their lives easier. Except, of course, they have to contend with their greatest and most fiendishly unbeatable arch-enemy, their own track record.
I've now had to delete my Exchange profile in Entourage and rebuild the MS database a dozen times. In the interim, I've "sent" updates to meetings that were never touched, lost meetings I haven't even so much as hovered over sinc
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If I had mod points right now I would mod this funny.
As it is, I'm saving it as a quote. Go, bugeaterr.
Re:Not what, but who. (Score:5, Informative)
I for one have found Silverlight (actually Moonlight) to run better on my Linux/Firefox PC than Flash IMO. At least you can build it from source and make it run 64-bit natively
Riddle me this twitter, when is Adobe going to make a 64-bit Linux flash?... or when will Adobe help out the Gnash project?
Anyways Silverlight is more of a moot point, if they want it running on the iPhone and Safari you are just going to have to write good AJAX and Microsoft knows this.
In web services Microsoft knows it cant afford to lock out people that uses its competitions platforms as IE doesn't really have a stranglehold on the market anymore, I am not talking about Linux as much as I am talking about the iPhone, Firefox and other markets that they could open their products to that have web browsers like the Wii and PS3.
Despite it may be likely they have some sort of evil intentions but the most likely scenario is they have a revenue model around this and want as many customers as possible. When you have a product you want people to use and/or purchase it.
I myself may never use it (Google Docs/OpenOffice works great for me) but I am glad its there, it shows that Microsoft is acknowleging there is compeition which is a major step forward than where they were a decade ago.
Re:Silverblight and Mono. (Score:4, Informative)
Do you figure there's a single moderator on Slashdot that doesn't know about your fourteen accounts [slashdot.org] and what you do with them?
Three [slashdot.org] different ones used in this article inside of 10 minutes.
And riddle me this, why do you reply to yourself as you did here instead of just making your point in a single post? I'm actually curious.
Re:Silverblight and Mono. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Silverblight and Mono. (Score:5, Funny)
It's obvious the poor guy suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder, you insensitive clod!
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It's obvious the poor guy suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder, you insensitive clod!
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In other news, it turns out twitter has a fifteenth account under the name "dedazo"
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Who freaking cares who's behind the account? Let people judge the post content itself, not the fucking name above it! This shit is pathetic and downright creepy with the tracking of sockpuppets..
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Re:Silverblight and Mono. (Score:4, Funny)
Someone has to say them, so here we go:
I for one welcome our twitter responding overlords.
In soviet russia, twitter responds to you.
1. twitter
2. ???
3. Profit
Imagine a beowulf cluster of twitters
Yes, but can twitter run linux
Oh, and don't forget the Nazis.
*THREAD TERMINATED*
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