Comment Re:We all know Pai had an agenda to help businesse (Score 2) 132

In theory, maybe. In practice, no. In practice, it increases the workload of the ISP. Even if the person splitting the connection provides front line support for the customers underneath, there will still be an increase in calls to the ISP. It's not 1:1, but it definitely will increase.

That's true. On the flip side, the increased workload is already highly nonuniform from customer to customer, and I don't think the current cost model fully takes that into account. :-)

I'd love to see a discount plan for people who don't need support. Basically, instead of tech support, you provide us with:

  • A printed sheet of paper with necessary configuration information
  • A web page where we can check for known outages (that is actually kept up-to-date) and where we can report that our cable modems are unable to connect to the headend so that somebody can do a truck roll

With the exception of the very first time I set up a DSL modem and was thrown off by poor instructions regarding the PPPoE configuration, literally 100% of my contacts to an ISP required a truck roll or significant upstream intervention. In about half of the calls, it was caused by rewiring that they unexpectedly ("helpfully") did in a prior truck roll and didn't tell me about, which subsequently failed catastrophically. The rest of the time, it was caused by water in the line, a faulty line card, some PPPoE server outage in another state, etc.

Okay, pedantically, you could argue that the one time when I complained about the cable Internet service being out because of a nearby power outage that didn't affect me, they technically could have said, "Too bad; it's not our equipment's fault," and then not done a truck roll, but several hundred customers were glad when they brought in the portable generator, so....

There should be a discount for that level of non-nuisance.

Comment That sounds about right. (Score 4, Interesting) 110

I am inclined to trust this engineer over the loud CEO. I am willing to agree to a lot of things that seem to be valid, and to scoff at other things that don't seem to have a solid basis. Yes, this surely sounds really subjective, and you have every right to call me a "dog on the Internet with an opinion."

I still think that true "AI" is not existent. Sure, machine learning is very real. And useful. And Tesla has used it for helping their cars. Or more specifically, helping the drivers of their cars to avoid their driving duties. Should I emphasize the word DUTIES?! EVERY driver MUST by law be safe and prudent.

Sure, I understand that so many drivers are NOT safe. Maybe I was one of them at some time (long ago). My point is that simple tech can be helpful. But the idea of "AI" is bullshit. And I condemn those who try to claim this non-existent AI is actually here.

Comment Re:Elon and CJ have different timelines (Score 5, Insightful) 110

So? This is not news. ThebModel X was behind schedule, the roadster 2 is also. So is cybertruck. Doesnt mean it wont get there. Just means two senior members of Tesla disagree on the trajectory.

Musk has been predicting FSD is just around the corner for years. He either doesn't understand the difficulty of the task (and how far they have to go) or he's deliberately misrepresenting the tech they have to keep the hype going.

Frankly, considering that he was just caught misleading people about the circumstances of a fatal accident I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Comment Re:We all know Pai had an agenda to help businesse (Score 1) 132

Thanks, it's an interesting conundrum as many people need general "tech support" but A) are not accustomed to paying for it and B) have trouble with the chain of products and how they interact.

And I totally feel the frustration with having to "prove" where the issues are, some people probably don't want to consider they configured something wrong.

Something maybe your company does but my ISP (Spectrum) does not or fails to do is any real proactive notification of outages. When I can clearly see my modem not getting signal after so much time I usually will end up calling since I just have no way of knowing if it's some problem with my wiring or if there's an outage. Something a text or an app could easily do since the person on the phone clearly can see there's an issue on their end. I usually end up apologizing for wasting time.

Medicine

The Coronavirus Is an Airborne Threat, the CDC Acknowledges In Updated Public Guidance (nytimes.com) 120

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: Federal health officials on Friday updated public guidance about how the coronavirus spreads, emphasizing that transmission occurs by inhaling very fine respiratory droplets and aerosolized particles, as well as through contact with sprayed droplets or touching contaminated hands to one's mouth, nose or eyes. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention now states explicitly -- in large, bold lettering -- that airborne virus can be inhaled even when one is more than six feet away from an infected individual. The new language, posted online, is a change from the agency's previous position that most infections were acquired through "close contact, not airborne transmission."

As the pandemic unfolded last year, infectious disease experts warned for months that both the C.D.C. and the World Health Organization were overlooking research that strongly suggested the coronavirus traveled aloft in small, airborne particles. Several scientists on Friday welcomed the agency's scrapping of the term "close contact," which they criticized as vague and said did not necessarily capture the nuances of aerosol transmission. "C.D.C. has now caught up to the latest scientific evidence, and they've gotten rid of some old problematic terms and thinking about how transmission occurs," said Linsey Marr, an aerosol expert at Virginia Tech. The new focus underscores the need for the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration to issue standards for employers to address potential hazards in the workplace, some experts said.

Comment It's not about deregulation (Score 2, Insightful) 132

It's about competition. When companies agree not to compete against one another in particular areas, or local governments only allow one company to provide service, of course prices will rise.

Cable companies from Comcast on down generally don't compete against each other to begin with, but mergers eliminate the slim possibility that they could compete in the future. Charter CEO Tom Rutledge recently said that Charter avoids competing against other cable companies because that would make it hard to buy the companies later. If two cable companies compete, the FCC is unlikely to approve a merger between them, he said.

You need at least three companies to have good competition. However, few areas in the country have this option. Most have one and a select few have two.

Until people have a real choice in providers, prices will continue to rise in double digits.

Submission + - SPAM: The Virus Is An Airborne Threat, the CDC Acknowledges

An anonymous reader writes: Federal health officials on Friday updated public guidance about how the coronavirus spreads, emphasizing that transmission occurs by inhaling very fine respiratory droplets and aerosolized particles, as well as through contact with sprayed droplets or touching contaminated hands to one’s mouth, nose or eyes. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention now states explicitly — in large, bold lettering — that airborne virus can be inhaled even when one is more than six feet away from an infected individual. The new language, posted online, is a change from the agency’s previous position that most infections were acquired through “close contact, not airborne transmission.”

As the pandemic unfolded last year, infectious disease experts warned for months that both the C.D.C. and the World Health Organization were overlooking research that strongly suggested the coronavirus traveled aloft in small, airborne particles. Several scientists on Friday welcomed the agency’s scrapping of the term “close contact,” which they criticized as vague and said did not necessarily capture the nuances of aerosol transmission. “C.D.C. has now caught up to the latest scientific evidence, and they’ve gotten rid of some old problematic terms and thinking about how transmission occurs,” said Linsey Marr, an aerosol expert at Virginia Tech. The new focus underscores the need for the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration to issue standards for employers to address potential hazards in the workplace, some experts said.

Link to Original Source

Comment This shit's crazy. (Score 5, Interesting) 52

I have the feeling we're hitting one of those inflection points in biotech. For this much progress to be made this quickly. I don't feel too crazy to think that we could literally have cures for a majority of infectious diseases and most cancers within the next decade. Between mRNA vaccines/tech, CRISPR, and all the other shit coming out things could get really crazy.

Feed Techdirt: Wired's Big 230 Piece Has A Narrative To Tell (techdirt.com)

I remember when Wired was the key magazine for understanding the potential of innovation. I subscribed all the way back in 1993 (not the first issue, but soon afterward, after a friend gave me a copy of their launch issue). Over the years, the magazine has gone through many changes, but I'm surprised at how much its outlook has changed. The latest example is a big cover story by reporter Gilad Edelman, basically arguing that people who support Section 230 are "wrong" and holding the law up as a "false idol." The piece is behind a paywall, because of course it is.

I should note that, while I have disagreed with Edelman in the past (specifically regarding his reporting on 230, which I have long felt was not accurately presenting the debate), I think he's a very good reporter and usually quite thorough and careful. That's part of the reason I'm disappointed with this particular piece. Also, I will note that my first read of the article made me think it was worse than I did after subsequent reads. But, in some ways, more careful reads also highlighted the problems. While presented as a news piece with thorough reporting and fact checking, it is clearly narrative driven. It reads as though it were written with a story in mind, and then Edelman went in search of quotes to support that narrative -- even setting up strawmen (including myself and Cathy Gellis) to knock down, while not applying any significant scrutiny to those whose views agree with Edelman's. It's fine (if misleading) as an opinion piece you'd see on a blog somewhere. But as a feature article in Wired that was supposedly fact checked (though I am quoted in it, and no one checked with me to see if the quote was accurately presented), it fails on multiple grounds.

The framing of the article is that "everything you've heard about Section 230 is wrong" (that's literally the title), but that's not how the article actually goes. Instead, it comes across as "everyone who supports 230 is wrong." It starts off by talking about "the Big Lie" and the fact that Trumpist cable news -- namely Newsmax, One America, and Fox News -- repeatedly presented blatantly false information regarding voting technology made by Dominion Voting Systems and Smartmatic. It notes that the voting companies sued the news channels, and all of them have been much more circumspect since then about repeating those lies. Edelman then contrasts that with the world of social media:

As some commentators noted, one group was conspicuously absent from the cast of defendants accused of amplifying the voting machine myth: social media companies. Unlike traditional publishers and broadcasters, which can be sued for publishing a defamatory claim, neither Facebook nor YouTube nor Parler nor Gab had to fear any legal jeopardy for their role in helping the lie spread. For that, they have one law to thank: Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

This statement is inaccurate on multiple levels. First of all, it's comparing apples to oranges. Traditional publishers and broadcasters face liability because they choose what limited content to publish. Note that while you can sue Fox News for defamation, no one is suing, say, Dish Network for offering Fox News. That's because liability should apply to those responsible for the speech. With Fox News, it's Fox News. They choose what goes on the air. With social media, they don't. They're more like the "Dish Network" in this scenario. The liability is not on them, but the speakers. If Dominion and Smartmatic wanted, they could have gone after the actual speakers on those social media networks for defamation, just as they chose to go after Fox and not Dish.

It's all about the proper application of liability to those actually doing the speaking. But you wouldn't get that message if you read this article.

Even the final line of that quote, saying that platforms have 230 to thank, is not entirely accurate. Even without 230, it's hard to see how a Dominion or Smartmatic could possibly hold Facebook liable for defamatory content on their network. The main difference is that 230 would get any such case dismissed earlier and cheaper, and that makes websites more willing to host user generated content without having to fear the crippling costs of extended litigation.

That's all very important nuance. Nuance that is not adequately presented in laying out Edelman's argument.

The article bends over backwards to present those of us who support Section 230 as being unwilling to admit that there are problems on the internet, and treating Section 230 like apple pie and ice cream.

According to its admirers, Section 230 is the wellspring from which everything good about the modern internet emerged—a protector of free speech, a boon to innovation, and a corner stone of the American economy. The oft-quoted title of a book by the lawyer Jeff Kosseff captures this line of thinking well. It refers to the law’s main provision as "the 26 words that created the internet."

At best, that's an exaggeration and a strawman that's easy to knock down. Kosseff himself notes that this suggests his book is a one-sided hagiography of 230:

I also was referenced in the article and was not contacted by the reporter. I don’t think it is an accurate description of my work. https://t.co/lbAYNu1vPo

— Jeff Kosseff (@jkosseff) May 6, 2021

But, of course, Edelman's representation is not a fair one of how any of us 230 supporters feel. We don't say that 230 is perfect and ideal. We regularly highlight the challenging and impossible trade-offs that come out of this internet with many companies hosting third-party speech. Jeff's book goes deep into things he doesn't like about the way the internet has developed, partly because of 230. It details many of the reasoned criticisms of 230.

The issue all of us keep pointing out is not that 230 is perfect, but that every suggestion for changing it will create all sorts of problems that make the internet much worse. I've written about this a few times, and the fact that content moderation is impossible to do well. The good thing about Section 230 is not that it makes the internet perfect. It does not, and I've never claimed otherwise. It's that it allows for the necessary experimentation to continually change and improve, and to react to new forms and techniques of bad behavior. So far, every other proposed approach acts as if content moderation is a "solvable" problem and that magically forcing companies into a particular paradigm will work.

This suggestion that supporters of 230 are Pollyannas of the web is a strawman. We are not. We are focused on the different trade-offs and nuances of every approach, and we defend Section 230 because it remains the best approach that we've seen for dealing with a very messy internet in which there are no good solutions, but a long list of very bad ones.

The article then suggests that we supporters of 230 believe all critics don't know what they're talking about. It actually references an event that I put together (though it doesn't mention that) which Edelman attended, where I interviewed the authors of Section 230, Senator Ron Wyden and former Representative Chris Cox. If you'd like to hear that interview for yourself, you can listen to the whole thing on our podcast. Oddly, Edelman names only three out of the ten sponsors we had for that event (Amazon, Twitter, and Yelp) as if it was put together solely by the big internet companies. It does not name the other seven sponsors, which included organizations like the Internet Society and the Filecoin Foundation (which is helping to create a new internet that undermines the big social media companies).

Another article of faith among Section 230’s champions? That people who criticize the law have no clue what they’re talking about. Section 230 recently turned 25 years old, and the occasion was celebrated by a virtual event whose sponsors included Twitter, Amazon, and Yelp. Senator Ron Wyden and former congressman Chris Cox, the authors of the statute, fielded questions from the audience, typed into a chat window. The most upvoted question was, “How best can we get folks to properly understand Sec 230? Particularly when it seems that many are either reluctant to realize they don’t understand or, even worse, they don’t want to understand?”

Note that Edelman's assertion here -- that it's an "article of faith" among 230 supporters that "people who criticize the law have no clue what they're talking about" -- is not actually supported by the highest-voted question during the QA portion of the session we held. It's a factual statement that many people talking about 230 don't understand it. And in the context of the conversation, that question was referring to people like former President Trump and Senator Josh Hawley, who think that Section 230 is why websites can remove policy-violating users -- something that is just demonstrably wrong. So the question, in context, was not suggesting that everyone criticizing 230 "have no clue what they're talking about" but trying to deal with the fact that many people talking about 230 demonstrably do not understand it and seem to have no interest in doing so.

So this line may fit Edelman's preset narrative, but in context it does not say what he wants it to say. It's cherry-picked. Edelman does say that Trump's (and Biden's) view of the law is not "terribly coherent," more or less admitting that the question from our event was accurate. But within the context of his article, it's presented as if we're unwilling to dig in and recognize that the internet is not perfect, and believe everyone who pushes back on 230 is doing so in bad faith.

Of course, that's false. The issue is that there are many bad faith attacks on 230. However, when there are good faith criticisms of Section 230, we're perfectly happy to address them as such, and highlight why those approaches -- even if meant in good faith -- might backfire. That is not how we are presented in this article. Instead, we're presented as one side of a black-and-white battle against the realists who recognize the problems of the law.

This is repeated later, when Edelman briefly quotes me as another out-of-context strawman to blow over:

Other guardians of 230 sound even more apocalyptic notes when the law comes up for debate. After a group of Democratic senators proposed a bill to limit the law’s protections in early February, Mike Masnick, founder of the venerable policy blog TechDirt, wrote that the changes could force him to shut down not just the comments section but his entire website. Section 230 coauthor Ron Wyden, now a US senator, said the bill would “devastate every part of the open internet.”

And I did say that we would likely have to shut down if the SAFE TECH Act became law, but that was about that particular law. We have not said that about every possible change to the law. And we said it about the SAFE TECH Act because of just how poorly drafted that law is. My article about the problems of the SAFE TECH Act (a bill which Edelman praised effusively, while also complaining that it didn't go far enough) goes into great detail on the many problems with the specific approach it laid out. But in Edelman's view, it seems, because we said this bill would likely force us to shut down, that means we're apocalyptic about any situation "when the law comes up for debate." That's just blatantly inaccurate. I've already mentioned the reasons we're happy to engage with those who are looking to make changes in good faith, to understand their issues and explore solutions. I've talked happily to many Congressional staffers and other government officials about their ideas for this very reason.

But the point we keep raising is just how much detail and nuance there is in these items, which few of the critics seem willing to get into. Instead, the focus is on painting "internet bad!" with a broad brush, and that's the trap much of Edelman's article falls into.

It does the same thing with another aspect of our own advocacy, calling out our amicus brief in the Armslist case, written by Cathy Gellis. Here's how Edelman frames that:

In fact, a lot of the most passionate pro-230 discourse makes more sense when you recognize it as a species of garden-variety libertarianism—a worldview that, to caricature it only slightly, sees any government regulation as a presumptive assault on both economic efficiency and individual freedom, which in this account are pretty much the same thing to begin with. That spirit animated Section 230 when it was written, and it animates defenses of the law today. So you have Cathy Gellis, a lawyer who blogs ardently for TechDirt in support of Section 230’s immunity, filing an amicus brief in the Armslist case insisting that a post listing a gun for sale is speech that must be protected.

That's... well, quite something. Considering that neither Cathy nor I are "garden-variety libertarians" and neither of us see "any government regulation as a presumptive assault on both economic efficiency and individual freedom," it's already misrepresenting our views. It also completely misrepresents the nuances, context, and framing of our advocacy in the Armslist case. Our argument correctly notes that advertisements are a form of speech. Edelman may not like that, but it's a factual statement -- not some crazy utopian libertarian idea. Indeed, Cathy's opening to the brief details just how difficult cases like this are, and how they force us to challenge many of our assumptions.

Tragic events like the one at the heart of this case can often challenge the proper adjudication of litigation brought against Internet platforms. Justice would seem to call for a remedy, and if it appears that some twenty-year old federal statute is all that stands between a worthy plaintiff and a remedy, it can be tempting for courts to ignore it in order to find a way to grant that relief.

The problem is, as in cases like this one, there is more at stake than just the plaintiff’s interest. This case may look like a domestic violence case, a gun policy case, or even a negligence case, but it is actually a speech case. Laws that protect speech, such as the one at issue in this appeal, are on the books for good reason. They are ignored at our peril, because doing so imperils all the important expression they are designed to protect.

You would not get that from Edelman's piece at all. Instead, it suggests that we argued that there's no issue here since this is just speech. That's not an accurate portrayal of what we said by any basic reading of what we wrote. Cathy's brief highlighted the challenging issues in the case, and brought them back to the key point behind 230: that it's about putting liability on the actual responsible party, rather than seeking to dump it on the most easily targeted party like the platform hosting problematic third-party speech.

The article also goes after Professor Eric Goldman, who is one of the top scholars on Section 230 -- first quoting a regular critic of his giving an extremely one-sided description of Goldman, and then again presenting a strawman of Goldman's views, focusing on his important paper about why 230 is better than the 1st Amendment. Yes, the title of that piece is provocative, but in the Edelman article it's presented as some sort of evidence of how extreme Goldman's views are:

But Goldman is not only Section 230’s most up-to-speed observer; he may also be its biggest fan. When reporters call him for an expert quote, they get a very particular perspective—one capably summarized in the title of his 2019 paper, “Why Section 230 Is Better Than the First Amendment.” In Goldman’s view, the rise of platforms featuring user-generated content has been an incredible boon both to free speech and to America’s economic prosperity. The #MeToo movement; the more than $2 trillion combined market cap of Facebook and Alphabet; blogs, customer reviews, online marketplaces: We enjoy all of this thanks to Section 230, Goldman argues, and any reduction in the immunity the law provides could cause the entire fortress to crumble. No domain of user-generated content would be safe. If the law were repealed, he recently told the Committee to Protect Journalists, “comments sections for newspapers would easily go.”

Edelman makes little effort to engage with why Goldman says any of this, or even to explore the details of Goldman's "230 is better than the 1st Amendment" paper until much later in the article, when he no longer presents it as connected to that paper. Instead, Edelman presents the title of Goldman's paper, without providing the proper context -- context he only obliquely raises elsewhere in the article. What that paper actually says is important, and not quite as radical or extreme as Edelman presents. The paper goes into great detail about a kind of wonky legal argument: that 230 has procedural benefits that help both companies and users deal with the kind of heckler's veto that would occur if we had to rely on the 1st Amendment to deal with the lawsuits. The argument is that 230, as a procedural tool, kicks these cases out early. If we had to rely on the 1st Amendment, you're talking about a much more expensive legal process, turning an issue that could be disposed of for tens of thousands of dollars into one that will require hundreds of thousands.

That is perhaps deep in the legal wonkery weeds, but it's a legitimate point. Much later in the article, Edelman does finally quote Goldman directly making this point (the only supporter of 230 he appears to have interviewed, though it looks as though he interviewed and quoted at least three fierce critics of Section 230 -- without ever critiquing any of their arguments), but it's so far separated from the framing that Edelman used above that no one who hasn't been deeply engaged in this debate will recognize it:

You might think, for example, that something like Citron’s proposed “reasonableness” standard would be widely seen as a commonsense, compromise reform. In fact, even this suggestion draws fierce opposition. Eric Goldman, the influential law professor, told me it would be tantamount to repealing the entire law.

“A key part of 230’s secret sauce comes in its procedural advantages,” he said. Today, the law doesn’t just help companies defeat lawsuits; it helps them win fast, at the earliest possible step, without having to rack up legal bills on discovery, depositions, and pretrial filings. Forcing defendants to prove that they meet some standard of care would make litigation more complicated. The company would have to submit and gather evidence. That would require more attention and, most importantly, money.

Perhaps the biggest companies could handle this, Goldman said, but the burden would crush smaller upstarts. Tweaking Section 230 this way, in other words, would actually benefit monopolies while stifling competition and innovation. Faced with a deluge of defamation lawsuits, the large platforms would err on the side of caution and become horribly censorious. Smaller platforms or would-be challengers would meanwhile be obliterated by expensive legal assaults. As Ron Wyden, Section 230’s coauthor, puts it, Citron’s proposal, though “thoughtful,” would “inevitably benefit Facebook, Google and Amazon, which have the size and legal muscle to ride out any lawsuits.”

And... all of that is true. But rather than deal with that fact, and highlight that this is the point all of Section 230's supporters are trying to make, Edelman brushes it off as typical anti-regulation nonsense.

The thing about this argument is that a version of it gets trotted out to oppose absolutely any form of proposed corporate regulation. It was made against the post-recession Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act of 2010, which the conservative Heritage Foundation declares “did far more to protect billionaires and entrenched incumbent firms than it did to protect the little guy.” Federal food safety rules, fuel economy standards, campaign spending limits: Pick a regulation and a free-market advocate can explain why it kills competition and protects the already powerful.

This is incredibly unfair. And it paints Goldman, Gellis, and myself as if we're regular fighters against any corporate regulation, which is simply not true (I mean, hell, look at our net neutrality coverage). Also, it's weird that this article comes out on the same day that the Heritage Foundation (according to Edelman, the kind of free market entity that fights back against any kind of regulations) came out and said 230 must be reformed or repealed. To lump us in with them as if we're all just "free market libertarians" is just weird. Especially when the "free market" groups he names... are on the other side on this issue.

There is no attempt to seriously deal with the critiques that we raise about the various proposals to reform 230 and our explanations of why they would be problematic. They're just brushed off as anti-regulation.

On the other hand, the Section 230 critics Edelman spoke to have their views presented without qualification or critique. It's as if Edelman has decided they are correct, and thus he does not need to test their theories, and that we are wrong, so our theories can be blithely dismissed.

Separately, it's worth addressing one key argument the article raises, which I've seen many others raise before: that 230 must not be necessary for an open internet because other countries don't have it and everything is "fine" there. In this article, the comparison offered is... Canada.

Maybe, as Lunney suggests, the common law would have developed something similar to the immunity provided by Section 230. But courts also could have come up with rules to take into account the troubling scenarios: bad Samaritan websites that intentionally, rather than passively, host illegal or defamatory content; platforms that refuse to take down libel, threats, or revenge porn, even after being notified. They might have realized that the publisher-distributor binary doesn’t capture social media platforms and might have crafted new standards to fit the new medium. Section 230, with its broad, absolute language, prevented this timeline from unfolding.

This hypothetical scenario isn’t even all that hypothetical. The United States is the only country with a Section 230, but it’s not the only country with both a common law tradition and the internet. Canada, for example, has nothing analogous to Section 230. Its libel law, meanwhile, is more pro- plaintiff, because it doesn’t have the strong protections of the First Amendment. Despite all that, user-generated content is alive and well north of the border. News sites have comments sections; ecommerce sites display user reviews. Neutral providers of hosting or cloud storage are not hauled into court for selling their services to bad guys.

Both of these paragraphs are worth addressing on their own, but it's important to see the two combined to highlight the issues with this argument. It is possible that the common law would have developed to create a 230-like situation. Indeed, as some will remember, in the early 2000s I had said that I didn't think 230 was necessary, since it seemed obvious that a website shouldn't be held liable for third-party content, and I hoped that courts would easily recognize this. However, history has made it clear that my belief was wrong. Over and over again we've seen individuals (and even a few courts) get this wrong, and assume that hosting third-party content should lead to liability. Section 230's purpose was to avoid the headache of having to go through this over and over again.

That's a key part of what Goldman is talking about regarding the procedural benefits of 230.

But the second paragraph is one that has made some people nod in agreement. Unfortunately, it elides many important details. First, it says that Canada is "alive and well" with third-party content, but that leaves out a lot of context, such as the nature of litigation in each country. According to a Harvard study on litigation rates of different countries, the US is way more litigious, with 5,806 lawsuits filed per 100,000 people, compared to just 1,450 per 100,000 in Canada. For better or worse, the US is a much more litigious society. That makes a difference.

And there are all sorts of differences in the Canadian litigation context as well, including that Canada (like much of the rest of the non-US world) has a common law system in which the loser usually pays at least a portion of the winner's legal fees, deterring a significant amount of frivolous litigation. The US doesn't have that except in extreme cases, or a few very limited conditions (anti-SLAPP laws, certain copyright cases, extremely vexatious litigation). That explains a huge part of the reason why abusive litigation is so much more popular in the US. Plaintiffs often don't care if they win or lose, because the goal is just to hurt the defendant. In Canada that's harder to accomplish.

Second, it leaves out the actual impact on speech in Canada, and simply rolls it all up as "alive and well." Except that's not quite true. While it does admit that libel law is "more plaintiff friendly" it leaves out how that works in practice, which shows why the first paragraph above is misleading as well. A perfect example of this was the saga of Jon Newton and Wayne Crookes that we discussed on Techdirt. At issue was that Newton, the operator of P2PNet, had simply linked to an article that a Green Party official, Wayne Crookes, believed was defamatory. In the US, such a case would have been kicked out of court quickly under 230. In Canada, the case that began in 2007 had to go through many years and many appeals and didn't end until late 2011 when Canada's Supreme Court finally ruled that merely linking was not defamatory.

Literally two months after that case concluded -- even though Newton won -- he announced that he was done with the site.

That story alone highlights the issues with the "it's fine in Canada" approach. It's not fine. And for a small site, it required years spent fighting a draining lawsuit that, while it eventually resulted in a win, meant that the site in question was basically done. And we've seen this in lots of other countries as well, including Argentina and India. While some other countries have eventually had 230-like rules established through the courts, it's often a long and arduous process for sites, and in the meantime makes them much quicker about pulling down any speech that might get them in trouble.

Even worse, the idea that "Canada is fine, just a bit more pro-plaintiff" fails to take into account other realities of Canadian intermediary liability jurisprudence, including the infamous Equustek decision that argued the Canadian government could order Google (a non-party to the court case in question) to block a website from being accessed not just in Canada, but around the globe. That kind of decision should raise serious questions about Canada's actual commitment to free speech and whether or not such content is truly "alive and well" up north.

Indeed, Edelman then states that maybe Canada's internet isn't really that open, giving the example of a media site that removes a bunch of comments in part because of legal reasons and the risk of being dragged into court. Bizarrely, he spins this as evidence that we don't need 230.

Yes, websites with user-generated content do have to be more careful. Jeff Elgie, the founder of Village Media, a network of local news sites in Canada, told me that the possibility of getting sued was one thing the company had to take into account when building its comments system, which combines AI with human moderation. But it’s hardly the extinction-level threat that Section 230 diehards warn about. (Elgie said that, overall, only around 5 to 10 percent of comments get blocked on Village Media sites, and only a small subset of those are for legal reasons.) It is simply not true that “the internet” relies on Section 230 for its continued existence.

Except no one says that the internet would go away completely. We just say that it would be a very different kind of internet -- one in which marginalized voices are less able to get through, stories like #MeToo get stifled in their crib, and smaller sites like mine are unable to exist. Indeed, there's plenty of empirical evidence of over-blocking, especially in countries without 230-like protections. Edelman doesn't address that beyond saying that Canada is fine. And, sure it's "fine" because we can't point to all the content that no one can see because it's never posted or not posted for very long due to over-blocking out of fear of legal liability. Edelman, a top journalist working for one of the largest media publishers in the world, may not care much as to how that impacts the less fortunate, the marginalized, and such. But we do.

Finally, a point that we've made in the past regarding this "other countries" argument is that if you look around, you don't see any of those other countries producing many successful internet companies that rely on third-party content. That's certainly true of Canada. There's... Wattpad? Who else? Edelman dismiss this argument as "a pivot" (though it's not a pivot, it's the very important nuance we're trying to explain) and then dismisses it entirely saying it's not clear 230 really matters here.

In response to this observation, staunch supporters of Section 230 generally pivot. They concede that other countries have blogs and comments sections but point out that these countries haven’t produced user-generated content juggernauts like Facebook and YouTube.(Set aside China, which has a totally different legal system, a closed internet, and private companies that are more obedient to the state.) Section 230 might not be responsible for the internet’s literal existence, they say, but it is necessary for the internet as we know it.

There are a few ways to respond to this. One is that it’s hard to prove Section 230 is the reason for the success of American social media giants. The internet was invented in the US, which gave its tech sector an enormous head start. America’s biggest tech successes include corporate titans whose core businesses don’t depend on user-generated content: Microsoft, Apple, Amazon. Tesla didn’t become the world’s most valuable car company because of Section 230.

This isn't a particularly compelling response. After all, while the US may have pioneered the internet, the biggest user-generated content (social media) companies were started at a time when the internet was truly global and widely adopted. Facebook launched in 2004. YouTube in 2005. Twitter in 2006. That's well past the time when the internet was new and just in the US. Furthermore, you can look at other evidence to tease out some of the differences -- as we did in our Don't Shoot the Message Board report in 2019. In that report, we looked at a wide variety of intermediary liability regimes and how they impacted startup creation and investment. One key finding was that the US didn't have nearly as much success with regards to startups in the copyright space as it did in other areas, and some of that could be explained by the fact that the DMCA is much more limiting that 230. In the music world, there are lots of examples of successful companies coming out of Europe -- such as Spotify, Soundcloud, Deezer and more. In other words, when we have more restrictive intermediary liability law, the evidence shows less successful US company creation.

Edelman's final response to this argument is... just pure speculation.

Another response is that even if Facebook does owe its wild success to Section 230, perhaps that’s not a reason to pop champagne. The reason we’re talking about reforming tech laws in the first place is that “the internet as we know it” often seems optimized less for users than for the shareholders of the largest corporations. Section 230’s defenders may be right that without it, Facebook and Google would not be the world-devouring behemoths they are today. If the law had developed slowly, if they faced potential liability for user behavior, the impossibility of careful moderation at scale might have kept them from growing as quickly as they did and spreading as far. What would we have gotten in their place? Perhaps smaller, more differentiated platforms, an ecosystem in which more conversations took place within intentional communities rather than in a public square full of billions of people, many of them behaving like lunatics.

And, I mean... sure? Maybe? And maybe it wouldn't have happened that way, and we'd have something a lot worse that enabled a lot less free expression. Perhaps we would have had an internet where it was much harder to call out the rich and powerful for sexual assault or casual bigotry. That "maybe" seems like a difficult one to hang your "it'll be okay to change 230" hat on. And, indeed, just as Edelman points to Canada as his "proof" that the internet is fine without 230, we can point to the rest of the globe to say that his speculation here does not seem to be proven either. Indeed, what we've seen (as noted above) is much more aggressive suppression of speech, which is a big part of what we're concerned with.

Also, if we look again at the copyright context, where no 230 exists, but rather a much more restrictive DMCA, we do not see this utopian better internet that Edelman speculates might have happened absent 230. We don't see "smaller, more differentiated platforms." Instead, we see the opposite. In the copyright realm, we see giant companies -- the few that have been able to hire giant legal teams to negotiate expensive deals. The smaller, more innovative startups mostly got driven out of the market by lawsuits quickly, even when they had strong legal claims. The actual evidence in the US context is that increasing legal liability doesn't lead to more "intentional communities," but simply fewer communities, and a very tiny number of giant companies with no real alternatives (unlike in the social media space, where there remain tons of alternatives).

All in all, the article is still worth reading -- and Edelman does present a thorough look at much of the 230 debate. It's just pretty clear what he believes. And that's fine for an opinion blog where the goal is to make your own views clear. But Wired presents this as a featured cover story that highlights factual claims about how 230's supporters are wrong, and it doesn't actually do that. It sets up strawmen, ignores nuances and context, and tells a predetermined story with cherrypicked, non-representative examples.

And that seems like a wasted opportunity.


Comment Re:Why is there a Youtube App? (Score 1) 47

Yeah that's why I put the quotations, it's kinda open but you are still really at the mercy of Roku since they control the platform. I can publish an app on the app stores pretty easily but Google and Apple still control it at the end of the day.

Roku itself is pretty good and the "Smart TV" system I would usually recommend to non-tech people.

Comment Re:Patents are not the problem! (Score 1) 189

And so what ? Even if it takes 18 month for new production chains to come up, at least the humanity as a whole will be better ready to face it. Would this had been done from the start, we wouldn't have lost 6 months already. Do you want to wait for the next, possibly more deadly, pandemic, to waive the protections and then let people die again for 18 more months ?

Lost 6 months towards what? You haven't presented any evidence that waiving patents would speed things up, or that it would have created new production chains.

Moderna said they wouldn't enforce their patents months ago. What difference did that make?

This is not random technology, it is technology that saves lives, that was partly developed using public money.

Sure, so there should be restrictions on how they can use the tech, including mandatory licensing where applicable and pricing to ensure maximum usage rather than maximum profit.

A lot of the R&D is done in public universities, but under the current system pharma participation is also necessary. And them making insane profits off of ending a pandemic is a good thing. What do you want them investing in? An incremental change to a generic drug so they can extend the patent or a revolutionary treatment? A life-saving technology is exactly the thing you want them to be rewarded for.

Imagine Moderna and Pfizer make a trillion off the pandemic vaccines. You know what happens next? Every other pharma starts pumping money into other moonshots like mRNA and we potentially save millions of lives from whatever they come up with.

Comment Re:Derpity derp? (Score 1) 247

What? Replacing nuclear power with wind and solar? Keep smoking whatever good stuff you've got over there! Nuclear is something we need to invest a LOT more in, if anything. Modern nuclear power plant designs are FAR safer than the decades-old ones we keep trying to limp along with today... but even those are producing clean energy. Fact: The stuff we call "nuclear waste" is only dangerous because it still has a lot of potential energy left in it. There are reactor designs that can recycle that material to harness a lot of that leftover energy.

Solar and wind are only good as supplemental power sources. It's not consistently windy OR sunny 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And once you get into hugely costly battery storage tech big enough to capture enough output to cover a whole night or whole period where wind dies down? You're now looking at a setup with its own big environmental costs for all the toxic chemicals in the batteries plus the up-front environmental issues around building all those batteries.

High-speed rail doesn't replace our highways either. Again, only a supplement. A train has to stop at every single station to let people on and off. That process eats up a big part of the time savings you get from it traveling at a high speed to begin with. And mass transit isn't workable for a whole lot of people. Imagine being a traveling salesperson of any sort and trying to schedule all of your appointments around when you can get on and off a train and then walk or catch some other form of transportation to their location?

Comment Good enough (Score 2, Insightful) 74

I didn't go from Win 7 to Win 10 because of some compelling feature. I went because they threatened end of service life for Win 7. I didn't upgrade my cell from iPhone 7 plus to iPhone 12 Pro because of features. It was because my iPhone 7 was degrading to the point it was unreliable.
We've reached a point where the current Microsoft OS is 'good enough' and people aren't interested in upgrading.
We've reached a point where gaming machines are 'good enough' and people don't feel compelled to get a new rig every couple years.
We've reached a point where your current cell phone is 'good enough' and we're not interested in the latest new shiny from Samsung or Apple.
At some point, all these tech tools we use are sufficient to get what we need done. Most of us just aren't interested in playing the 'constant upgrade' game anymore.

Comment Re:Oh man (Score 1) 74

At a certain point you just have to bite the bullet and saw your own leg off if you want to survive. The days of 98% of PC users attaching anything other than monitors and keyboard/mouse to their systems are pretty much over, and the days of 99.[five nines] % of PC users needing to attach that circa 1992 SCSI peripheral to a new system and have it work without tech assistance are absolutely over. If Microsoft wants to stay in the game at all they should go ahead and do as you describe.

Comment Re:Fragmentation (Score 1) 74

Microsoft doesn't consider Windows 10 and the settings fiasco a "mistake". Image being a non-tech user and trying to navigate that nightmare. You would give up ... exactly what Microsoft wants. What's needed is the Linux community getting together, getting their collective heads out of their a$$es, and finally making Linux on the desktop a reality. Too many distros, too many package managers, the proverbial "too many cooks" spoiling the sauce.

Comment ref Dark Forest Thoery (Score 1) 154

Remembrance of Earth's Past is an excellent 3-book series (The Three-Body Problem is book one), and the end of Book Two is an excellent warning of the consequences of loudly declaring our location. It may be that we don't detect any transmissions because either a) the ones that used to transmit are destroyed, or b) smart civilizations are keeping their existence low-key.

I see great benefit in space travel and exploration, and becoming a multi-planet species. As a kid, meeting alien life seemed extremely cool. As an adult I struggle to understand the benefits of contacting civilizations so far away that we would get no tech benefits from them, no medical benefits from them... only the satisfaction of knowing "we aren't alone" while inviting possible enslavement and/or destruction. Why would interstellar exploration by us or others end any different than how some fared in Earth's mere intercontinental exploration efforts throughout its history?

Comment Fragmentation (Score 4, Interesting) 74

The windows experience has gotten so fragmented. Navigating settings is hell, and the built in search feature is slow and inaccurate. It's telling that any "advanced" setting opens a classic control panel window. Tech companies need to own their mistakes and fix them rather than doubling down. Settings is horrible. Migrate back to control panel. I would love to switch to Linux but it doesn't have support for much of the software I need for work. Really I'd love to go back to Windows 7, which was almost universally a better user experience.

Feed Techdirt: UK Court Overturns 39 Convictions Of Post Office Workers Caused By Buggy Software (techdirt.com)

Never underestimate the power of technology to destroy lives. Flawed software used for the last 20 years by the UK postal service resulted in dozens of wrongful criminal convictions which are only just now being overturned.

Judges have quashed the convictions of 39 former postmasters after the UK's most widespread miscarriage of justice.

They were convicted of stealing money, with some imprisoned, after the Post Office installed the Horizon computer system in branches.

[...]

The clearing of the names of 39 people follows the overturning of six other convictions in December, This means more people have been affected than in any other miscarriage of justice in the UK.

The notoriously buggy software debuted in 1999. Apparently it was unable to do math properly, resulting in reported cash shortages that actually weren't happening. Some employees attempted to make up these faux shortfalls with their own money by digging into savings or remortgaging their homes. Rather than address the problematic software, the UK Post Office went into prosecutorial overdrive, bringing cases against employees at the rate of one per week for fourteen years straight. A total of 736 employees were prosecuted by the Post Office from 2000 to 2014.

And yet, the UK Post Office continued to rely on software that was actively destroying lives.

Marriages broke down, and courts have heard how some families believe the stress led to health conditions, addiction and premature deaths.

"The past nine years have been hellish and a total nightmare. This conviction has been a cloud over my life," said former Oxfordshire sub-postmaster Vipinchandra Patel, whose name was cleared late last year.

Seema Misra was pregnant with her second child when she was convicted of theft and sent to jail in 2010. She said that she had been "suffering" for 15 years as a result of the saga.

By the end of 2019, the Post Office had agreed to settle claims brought by 555 employees. And now the last of the wrongful convictions have been overturned. But, so far, no one at the Post Office or Fujitsu (the software developer) has been held accountable for the nearly 20-year run of destruction they oversaw.

That could change in the near future. The UK court seems completely unimpressed with the Post Office's actions (or lack thereof).

At the Royal Courts of Justice in London, Lord Justice Holroyde said the Post Office "knew there were serious issues about the reliability of Horizon" and had a "clear duty to investigate" the system's defects.

But the Post Office "consistently asserted that Horizon was robust and reliable" and "effectively steamrolled over any sub-postmaster who sought to challenge its accuracy", the judge added.

Sure, everyone at the Post Office seems pretty apologetic now. But that's after 15 years of ignoring the problem and choosing to believe software rather than the people hired to do the job. Tech can make things better and increase productivity, but it's rarely flawless and generally shouldn't be considered more trustworthy than the people who have to interact with it on a daily basis.


Microsoft

Microsoft Shelves Windows 10X, It is not Shipping in 2021 (petri.com) 74

In late 2019, Microsoft announced Windows 10X, a new flavor of Windows 10 designed for dual-screen PCs. Windows 10X, Microsoft said at the time, will power dual-screen PCs from Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo, and of course Microsoft. But it appears Microsoft has changed its plans about what it wants to do with this version of Windows 10. Microsoft-focused news outlet Petri reported on Friday, citing people familiar with the matter, that Microsoft will not be shipping Windows 10X this year and the OS, as was described by the company in 2019, will likely never arrive. From the report: The company has shifted resources to Windows 10 and 10X is on the back burner, for now. For about a decade, Microsoft has been trying to modernize Windows in various ways. We have seen Windows RT, Windows 10S, and now Windows 10X. The question becomes if there really is a future for anything other than traditional Windows 10? Microsoft said during their last earnings call that there were 1.3 billion active devices are running the OS each month and with that context in mind, does there really need to be a 'lite' version of the OS?

It's a fair question at this point because Microsoft's history of trying to overhaul Windows is a journey down a road with many headstones along the way to 2021. The reality is that if Microsoft is going to invest heavily in a modern version of Windows 10, it should be to run Windows 10 on ARM. A watered-down version of the OS to compete against Chromebooks is not working out today, much like it has not worked out in the past and it may never work out either but the future is hard to predict. While Windows 10 was put in the backseat for the past couple of years and many looked at 10X as a possible revival of excitement for the OS, all eyes should now be focused on Sun Valley -- the next major update to Windows 10. If something is going to return the limelight to Windows, it has to be Sun Valley because that's the only thing left. But just because 10X isn't coming to market anytime soon, the technologies that were built for 10X are migrating to Windows 10. Not everything from 10X will show up in 10 but I would expect to see things like UI updates, app containers, and more arrive in Windows 10.

Feed Google News Sci Tech: Epic goes on offensive against Apple exec in attack on 'walled garden' - WRAL Tech Wire (google.com)

Facebook

Months-long Twitter Backlash Had Zero Impact on WhatsApp's User Base (techcrunch.com) 47

An anonymous reader shares a report: It's safe to say WhatsApp didn't have the ideal start to 2021. Less than a week into the new year, the Facebook-owned instant messaging app had already annoyed hundreds of thousands of users with its scary worded notification about a planned policy update. The backlash grew fast and millions of people, including several high-profile figures, started to explore rival apps Signal and Telegram.

Even governments, including India's -- WhatsApp's biggest market by users -- expressed concerns. (In the case of India, also an antitrust probe.) The backlash prompted WhatsApp to offer a series of clarifications and assurances to users, and it also postponed the deadline for enforcing the planned update by three months. Now with the May 15 deadline just a week away, we are able to quantify the real-world impact the aforementioned backlash had on WhatsApp's user base: Nada. The vast majority of users that WhatsApp has notified about the planned update in recent months have accepted the update, a WhatsApp spokesperson told TechCrunch. And the app continues to grow, added the spokesperson without sharing the exact figures.

Feed Google News Sci Tech: Stocks Open Mixed After Disappointing Jobs Report - The Wall Street Journal (google.com)

Comment Re:Patents are not the problem! (Score 1) 189

And so what ? Even if it takes 18 month for new production chains to come up, at least the humanity as a whole will be better ready to face it. Would this had been done from the start, we wouldn't have lost 6 months already. Do you want to wait for the next, possibly more deadly, pandemic, to waive the protections and then let people die again for 18 more months ? This is not random technology, it is technology that saves lives, that was partly developed using public money. From Mediapart, a French investigation journal: https://www.mediapart.fr/journ...

Les seuls profits de ces multinationales ne peuvent pas guider les décisions publiques. Car tous ces laboratoires ont bénéficié d’investissements publics. Tous les vaccins ont été pré-achetés par les États. Le National Institute of Health américain, l’équivalent de l’Inserm en France, a investi 17,2 milliards de dollars sur 20 ans, dans des recherches qui ont abouti à des technologies utilisées aujourd’hui par Moderna. Le BARDA américain a par ailleurs financé Moderna à hauteur d’un milliard de dollars. BioNtech, qui a mis au point le vaccin Pfizer, a bénéficié de 300 millions d’euros de la part de l’Allemagne, de 100 millions d’euros de la Banque européenne d’investissement. Au premier trimestre 2021, Pfizer a engrangé 3,5 milliards de revenus avec son vaccin. Et cette multinationale se rend coupable, aux États-Unis, d’évasion fiscale, à hauteur de 25 milliards de dollars.

My badly translated version:

Profits of these multinational companies cannot lead public decisions. All those laboratories enjoyed public investments. Every vaccine were bought in advance by the states. NIH invested 17.2 billions dollars over 20 years in the research that lead to the technologies used today by Moderna. It also financed Moderna up to 1 billions dollars. BioNtech, responsible for the Pfizer vaccine, enjoyed 300 millions euros from Germany, 100 millions Euros from the European investment bank. For Q1 2021, Pfizer made 3.5 billions in revenues with its vaccine. And this multinational is evading taxes in the US for amounts up to 25 billion dollars.

So the two things people should think about:

  • even if it takes 18 month to share the tech and build production chains, it is worth it, it will save lives,
  • those companies aren't going to loose money because of that.

I'm open to other arguments against waving the patents but delay and money are just bad excuses to me.

Comment Re:Why is India moaning about patents.... (Score -1, Troll) 189

The vaccine is not a vaccine in the normal sense. It is a mutagen, it alters the function of the cells it attacks and once the cell has been Frankensteined, the cell, you cells, no longer function normally and instead produce a protein that attacks the body, causes inflammation and blood clotting, until the cell dies. The protein produced is the protein the virus uses to attack cells.

The mutagen, not a vaccine, is pretty dangerous as it will target cells randomly, any cell at any location, some cause far more harm than the virus itself. Guess whom the vaccine 'er' mutagen is most dangerous for, those who have the greatest natural resistance to the virus. So most dangerous for those at least risk and least effective for those most a risk, what a fucking wonderful vaccine 'er' mutagen.

So perhaps a pointless patent for a pointless vaccine beyond this one time fear campaign pushed by the big tech corporations, the pushing of the fear campaign and the purposeful silencing of all critics, BECAUSE IT PROFITED THE PSYCHOPATHIC TECH CORPORATIONS BOTTOM LINE TO DO SO.

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