Here's what President un-elect Trump said in the video he tweeted, then later removed:
-- I know your pain. I know youâ(TM)re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it especially the other side.
But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We donâ(TM)t want anybody hurt. Itâ(TM)s a very tough period of time, thereâ(TM)s never been a time like
"These are things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
This is batshit insane, to the point the guy deserves to be 25th-ed. A MAGA mob invaded the Capitol today, and someone died.
It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
So people planting bombs and violently storming buildings are "patriots". Nice!
I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
Riding his coattails, as absurd as it seems. The Trump family are probably, maybe, all universally smarter than Donald and while he does most of this out of narcissistic delusion, they see strategy and opportunity. These supporters are a gold mine, both politically and financially. While they have the Trump name and such a strong association they're going to milk this for what it's worth.
I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
Especially in this family, money is the only value that counts. Donald holds the purse strings, and few of his chlidren appear inclined to risk being cut off. The only proven strategy to staying in his good books is blatant and constant pandering to his whims, delusions, prejudices and desires, something each of them learned to do as toddlers. Added bonus: being shamelss suck-ups put them into postions of political power they could never achieve on their own. Realistically, none of the Trump childre
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Indeed. Good for you. There is a line when it does not become about Democrat or Republican but it becomes about the future of the country. Trump is way over that line.
Unlike many, I decided long ago, that the opposition isn't the enemy. They simply believe their way is the best for the country. I prefer to discuss issues rather than party, because I don't always follow party lines. Just as I hoped Obama would do well, I hope Joe does too. I just don't think he will.
I have reservations too; but at the very least, I trust him not to be a malicious fucking ghoul toeing the line of just how much state power is acceptable to wield against people who piss you off; and that is enough of an improvement for me to feel better about... well, everything.
A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
You are lucky. Apparently you have not been put at risk by the opposition's policies, taking away vital healthcare, trying to take control of your bodily autonomy, militarizing the police against you etc.
Unfortunately that's the reality for a lot of Americans. If the other lot get into power their lives are on the line. It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
The bar is set so low by your beloved Republicans that I am sure Biden will do well by that measure. So sick of people complaining about democrats on the day after a significant number of republicans cheered an attack on congress.
A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
The question is whether they do not understand what they are doing or whether they want to see the country burn. They just got a tiny taste of what that may be like.
While the ACA got millions insured. The only people who've lost are middle class who make too much to qualify for help, and can't afford the high premiums on their own. For the first time ever, I considered dumping my company sponsored retiree insurance because the cost and deductibles have gotten to the point where I really only want insurance against catastrophic events. Between just my wife and I, our insurance is over $20k/year, and rising at an unsustainable rate...especially when you're on a fixed
It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
It is a political disagreement. What we need to stop is the idea that being "political" somehow makes it OK. Some people's political opinion is that I ought to be killed and if they attempt to implement it they will do so with politics.
Politics isn't a free pass and some people will do great evil with it.
Or they just see the political advantage. They've discovered some words of power which, when spoken, direct a torrent of anger at their opponents - and thus raise the turn-out rate among their own supporters.
No-one needs to actually know what the words mean. They mean un-American and dangerous, and that's all that is needed.
it should be that way every single time and vote for the correct person for the job, its not a sporting event where you support your team regardless of their competency.
how do you feel about the revelations that Reagan delayed the release of hostages for political gain? IIRC the last of the files got declassified this year (with everything going on it was barely a blip) and they've made it a matter of historic fact that Reagan did it. Though we've known since 2011.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
They might just decide that it is better to clean this up for 8 or 12 years and then having a chance to win elections again. Also these 15% may well make far more of their other voters turn away in disgust.
I don't think it is that easy. In a simplistic sense, there are 40% Ds, 40% Rs, and 20% independents (at the national level - deep red states are probably 95%R, 4%D, 1%I or less). Ds and Rs both have their extremist wings. For the D's is the Bernie Bros. For the R's it's white nationals. Often the extreme wings don't vote - the mainstream candidates just don't throw enough red meat their way (Trump brought these guys to the table in a big way). So each party ends up in the 30% bucket or so, but you've
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
There's one thing they can do: fast track impeachment and conviction. They can then declare Trump disqualified from holding further federal office. Or, if they invoke the 25th Amendment, hard to come back from that as well: a lot of people wouldn't support someone who was removed due to being unfit.
It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their snake pit
FTFY. Mitchs speech last knight was priceless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] . He's basically the architect behind obstructionism [wikipedia.org] but now he pretends to be surprised and appalled by it.
I bet that man hates Trump more than anyone. But he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. US politics is polarized and abhors a traitor, so he has to play ball with Trump. It's totally self serving and precisely what you don't want in a leader, but it's how you stay in power.
Now Trump is on his way out, and has finally gone far enough McConnell can publicly break with him and possibly even win points.
That was toady glee you saw on his face in that speech.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Remember the names of those that still decided to contest the electors from Arizona and Pennsylvania:
The Tweet is pretty clear. It's not even that long, so here is the text: "American patriots - any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable".
It seems pretty disingenuous for the Trump family to whip up a crowd of people with inflammatory rhetoric, and then walk it back when the crowd does the thing you've just goaded them to do.
Then later give a video where he alternates calls for peace with restating his assertion that he won the election and expressing his admiration for the mob. He's doing the classical politician thing: Saying things to appeal to both sides, even when those things are contradictory.
Plus declaring them as patriots. They're invading congress to overturn a democratic results and waving the flag of a failed sedition. And he calls them "patriots". He's still encouraging them.
When the votes don't go your way, go to the courts. When the courts don't go your way, strong-arm the vote counters to call it for you. When that doesn't work, gin up an angry mob and attack your enemies.
Having your court cases laughed out of court makes you a fucking moron, but that's legal. Everything after that is not. If the Democrats don't prosecute a whole lot of election interference cases after this, they are holding the door open for it to happen in the future.
So she's addressing those who did not storm the capital and who did not attend Trump's impromptu speech this morning? She meant patriots like Romney, Sasse, Murkowski, Barr, Muller, Vinderman, etc?
But you know, when Republicans say "patriot" they really mean only those who are extremely conservative, and most recently they must also be highly staunch Trump supporters with no conservative Rhinos allowed. But their true colors show now, and it seems these Trumpists are really the ones who hate America.
Of course, of course YOU know what they mean better than they do.
In my less than humble opinion, you are using a very narrow ambiguity in her statement to err on the side of good faith when she has given you precisely no reason to think that it's true. After all, there were very fine people on both sides.
I think your attempt at arguing for that, is in itself actually in bad faith. I don't believe you really think she meant the dumb shit that you're saying. Your explanation is prima facie hard to swallow, and that's without even carefully analyzing the statement history
While there is *no* doubt whatsoever that the "protests" absolutely devolved into riots on several occasions, as a denizen of downtown Seattle, I can tell you it wasn't as bad as you (seem) to believe it was.
In general, what can be said, is that the authorities tried to use as light of a hand as they could, and let generally harmless behavior slide. Whether or not that was the right call is a fun thing to debate, but it wasn't Mad Max here.
What authorities "let slide" in Seattle was much more common, prolonged and violent than what happened in DC yesterday.
Oh, horse shit.
I walked around that shit many times during it. Toured the "CHAzwhatthefuckever" multiple times.
There was very little damage downtown, and no stormed government buildings.
One concludes that authorities should have also let this "slide" if they wanted to be consistent in their standards.
I'm unsure what you think the City of Seattle has to do with the Federal Capitol with regards to standards consistency.
Yeah, here's the problem with that: during all that "terrorizing" of Portland, if you would have actually driven past the Hatfield courthouse at any given time throughout that period except for at some very distinct moments, you would have seen literally nothing going on except some people camping in the park block across the street, and maybe a barbecue.
That whole thing was completely sensationalized and overblown on cable TV news. How do I know? I drove right past that courthouse several times during th
Negative.
He mentioned that she called these people "American Patriots."
And the fact is, she did.
It was a plea for their mob that they incited to go home. You can't call your mob a mob, otherwise they're not your mob anymore. She was hedging, and fuck her. And fuck you for your reality distortion field.
were there because they wanted the election to be audited
Nope. They wanted Trump declared the winner.
One more audit (which would, of course, show that Biden won) wouldn't make any difference to that crowd; they've been lied to repeatedly, and they want to believe the lie.
When has that meant ANYTHING? When his friends, family, and staff say things for him that we know he didn't want to say, or he'd have said it, he tweets his true feelings in less than 24h.
We've had four years of this just as president, and he's a professional liar for life that makes a politician blush.
His daughter is wishfully thinking if she speaks aloud, it will be true, so it must run in the family. He will contradict her in 3... 2... 1...
In the United States, there are no national elections. Elections are conducted, audited, and certified by the states. For presidential elections, a slate of electors is selected by each state under the rules they establish.
Congress and the Federal government have no role in conducting, auditing, or certifying the vote. The 12th Amendment is clear: Congress' responsibility is to simply count the electoral votes certified by the states and announce the winner.
The place to audit the vote is in each state, and for most of the swing states in the 2020 election that was done according to state law. For example, after the initial count, Georgia audited the vote based on the paper ballot reciepts, and then did a full recount after that at the request of the Trump Campaign.
It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
Or perhaps you do.
I jest, mostly.
What you're going to want to look for is the Election of 1876, the Compromise of 1877, and the Electoral Count Act.
The Constitution is actually pretty vague on the whole process. Particularly, in what constitutes an official electoral slate?
It doesn't say.
So what happens when the Governor sends a signed set in, and then the Secretary of State does too?
Where is the federal jurisdiction on who is correct? Of course, there is none.
So we kick it back to the states, right
The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Dude, cut out the fucking gaslighting.
Ted Kaczynski was just trying to bring awareness to the destruction of freedom brought on by the capitalist industrial complex.
He did this by fucking setting off bombs and killing people, so yes, I'm saying that makes him not an advocate for social change.
These fucks didn't go and protest, they fucking stormed the capitol building wearing campaign slogans.
As for the people who *were* peaceful- they obviously don't apply. But neither does Ivanka's fucking tweet.
Alternatively: Ya, you're right. She was asking the peaceful protesters to stop attacking the US capitol.
I'm beginning to wonder if you have successfully fucking gaslit yourself.
The election is audited at pretty much EVERY step of the process. The problem is that Trumps MAGA morons believe everything that comes out of his mouth and he's done NOTHING but lie about the election since day 1. Just because a small percentage of the population doesn't want to accept the results of the election doesn't mean that the election itself was fraudulent.
The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Are you claiming that makes them non-American or non-patriotic?
He could be insane, or merely deluded, or just lying to stoke the flames. But nothing about his speeches are responsible. The evidence does lean towards something between insane and deluded, possibly senility is setting in. Which happens when some people are old, it's not unexpected. The bizarre part is that there are followers who are also believing the delusions despite a total and complete lack of evidence. Our very own copy of King George III, only with more power and publicity and no one trying to hide it.
He could be insane, or merely deluded, or just lying to stoke the flames.
And it makes no difference. The guy is clearly unfit to be president, and i see no way he can do an effective job as POTUS over the next two weeks after today.
I mean, have we forgotten he actually encouraged all of this? Like, not a week ago?
The National Association of Manufacturers, a major group advocating for improving the economy with a long history, and not a group one could reasonably call liberal, has suggested that the 25th amendment should be invoked by Pence.
The National Association of Manufacturers, a major group advocating for improving the economy with a long history, and not a group one could reasonably call liberal, has suggested that the 25th amendment should be invoked by Pence.
Pence has thrown the coup plotter under the bus. Piers Morgan posted the one paragraph letter [twitter.com] Mike Pence wrote. In short, come tomorrow, when the Senate reconvenes, Pence will drive the last nail into the con artist's coffin and certify Joe Biden as the next president, as he is legally obligated to do, and nothing else.
Which reminds me, are all those "militias" we've heard so much about of late going to roll into DC and help suppress this terrorist mob? You know, like Washington used the militia to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.
And people have told me here that they were more worried about Pence becoming president if Trump was forced out or left. I think instead that my gut feeling is right, and Pence is at least devout enough to do the right thing. Trump is only pretending to be a Christian and it's blatantly obvious (though he has been to church many times, once for each wife). Pence is probably just along for the ride, hoping like many evangelicals that Trump enacts some policies that they like, all the while hoping that he'
Pence is at least devout enough to do the right thing.
You want devout religious rule like in Iran?
Trump is only pretending to be a Christian
Not his fault there. So is half of the Congress. It is required in American politics. So many are blatantly corrupt, but it is ignored if they are, or pretend to be religious. Funny country.
Pence is at least devout enough to do the right thing.
You want devout religious rule like in Iran?
Trump is only pretending to be a Christian
Not his fault there. So is half of the Congress. It is required in American politics. So many are blatantly corrupt, but it is ignored if they are, or pretend to be religious. Funny country.
It most certainly is his fault. If you feel it’s required to lie to the public to get elected, you probably shouldn’t be elected.
I agree with the poster who prefers Pence. I’d rather have someone in office doing what he believes is right than someone who is there solely for the power.
And I’m an atheist, for the record, who believes that current Christianity causes a lot of harm.
I agree with the poster who prefers Pence. I’d rather have someone in office doing what he believes is right than someone who is there solely for the power.
Right on. There's a big difference between someone who uses religion or other viewpoints for mere power and profit and someone who legitimately seeks to do what he or she feels is right. Such a person may still be mistaken about what is right, but not only would such a person be less likely to resort to evil methods to achieve his or her goal, but such a person would also be in a better position to listen to others' viewpoints and be corrected. People can certainly point to plenty of examples where we Chris
I agree. I do think he is sincerely devout, which is not a common trait among self-proclaimed Christian politicians. Sincerity is something that people should at least appreciate, whether or not they agree with someoner's views. I certainly did not agree with Hillary Clinton's politicies, but I thought she was at least well-qualified for the job both because of her experience and because I think she sincerely believes in her views; I do not think she was merely towing a party line. It's much easier to win a
once the Dems took the House it was a non issue. Yes, Trump's sheer incompetence stopped a *lot* of bad juju in the 1st 2 years, but after that it didn't matter. Trump could go at any time and it would be a net positive. We especially should have removed him over that "perfect" call. He solicited a bribe (anything of value is a "bribe", doesn't have to be money) from a foreign power for Pete's sake and we just let that slide...
The National Association of Manufacturers, a major group advocating for improving the economy with a long history, and not a group one could reasonably call liberal, has suggested that the 25th amendment should be invoked by Pence.
Pence has thrown the coup plotter under the bus. Piers Morgan posted the one paragraph letter [twitter.com] Mike Pence wrote. In short, come tomorrow, when the Senate reconvenes, Pence will drive the last nail into the con artist's coffin and certify Joe Biden as the next president, as he is legally obligated to do, and nothing else.
Which reminds me, are all those "militias" we've heard so much about of late going to roll into DC and help suppress this terrorist mob? You know, like Washington used the militia to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.
Pence did more Presidenting in those few hours yesterday than Trump has done since the election. In my mind, Pence is essentially acting President at this point.
Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
There has been a history in the Republican party in some states (and you can guess which) where they show that they do not want more people to vote because they know that they'll lose power that way. Ie, if more people could vote then more people might accidentally vote for the wrong party. Thus for many decades there has been a slow effort to make it harder to register to vote, harder to actually vote, easier to strike voters from the rolls, and so forth. Not all Republicans of course, some have seen the writing on the wall and realized that to stay relevant that they must change their style, be more inclusive, and so forth. Even in 2015-2016, there was a push by Republican leadership to become more inclusive, to court the minority votes much more heavily, to stop being jingoistic and anti-immigrant, etc; but that flew out the window when Trump entered the picture and doubled down.
Look at it this way. California, the bluest of the blue states, has an independent commision to establish voting districts, whereas Texas, the reddest of the red states has redistricting under total control of the Republican legislature - which of the two appeals the most to a democratic process that favors all voters regardless of party affiliation? You don't have to abandon the Republicans or their ideals to get more fairness in elections, you just need to encourage your party's leadership to respect democracy.
If you think Texas is the reddest of red states, you need to take a look at a polling map from the last few years. While the possibility was still slim and didn’t come to pass, most news outlets had Texas listed as a potential swing state in this last election, and expect that it will definitely be one by the next election.
Texas has long had one of the highest rates of immigration from other states in the country, most of which is coming from blue states, and it’s been slowly, inexorably shiftin
In terms of population, Texas outweighs the other red states. Although, as pointed out in xkcd (https://xkcd.com/2399/) when you look at numbers, California had more Trump voters than Texas did, and Texas had more Biden voters than New York... So maybe California is the reddest state?
a democracy, nor could it's leadership. That's the problem right there. It's an "inmates running the asylum" situation. Heck, IIRC Trump admitted out loud that if people could vote easily the GOP would never win another election. He did that in the context of dismantling the post office to prevent vote by mail.
The GOP is Minority Rule. They manipulate systems to seize power in defiance of democracy. The party needs to die or they'll eventually get a better, more competent Trump and end the charade and w
Well, it requires informed consent to work well. If you are comfortable with a violence-inciting nil-whit narcissist liar in office, the "informed" part clearly becomes optional.
What you have now is an oligarchy where information is highly managed. Those left out may be seriously misinformed but they are motivated by a shared feeling they are being excluded. It's this shared feeling which counts, not so much the theories they make up. And right now what do we get? Calls for more censorship. You know, to improve how informed people are. That'll work out just fine I bet!
Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
Well said. There is also research to back this up, which clocks the "authoritarian followers" at around 30% in the US: https://theauthoritarians.org/ [theauthoritarians.org] I highly recommend this. It is entirely readable and explains a lot.
Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
It really is sad to take a common goal and politicize it this much. Make America Great Again. Won't be long before those four words are treated like the "Not Sees", and banned from electronic print.
We Americans should remember it was the "great" situation we were in before, that elected President Trump. I wouldn't be surprised to find future candidates in ALL parties asking to make our country great again once this round of corruption flows through the swamp. Slogan rings a little better than "America i
Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
It really is sad to take a common goal and politicize it this much. Make America Great Again. Won't be long before those four words are treated like the "Not Sees", and banned from publication.
We Americans should remember it was the "great" situation we were in before, that elected President Trump. I wouldn't be surprised to find future candidates in ALL parties asking to make our country great again once this round of corruption flows through the swamp. Slogan rings a little better than "America is NOT a S
Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
Umm... nice rant, but pretty far from reality. In the first place, the "brainwashed" right is based on a distrust of authority, not a trust of it. It has a lot to do with cultural shifts in the USA; think about how much themes of corrupt authority and conspiracy come to the fore in the 1990's. The far-right's sense of being embattled, under siege, has everything to do with a distrust of authority. Believing in conspiracy theories is not the same thing as trusting authority. Certainly they do put their trust
I think Trump is in some king of "narcissistic rage" where he slowly loses all residual inhibitions and shows what he really thinks. May come back to bite him, he clearly is inciting violence by any normal standards, despite the disclaimers he (still) attaches. What he is using is entirely rational though, even if the motivation is not. It is a technique called the "Big Lie": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Apparently his cabinet members are discussing removing him via the 25th amendment, even though there are only two weeks left in his term. https://abcnews.go.com/Politic... [go.com]
National Association of Manufacturers asks Pence to "seriously consider" invoking 25th Amendment, group comprising powerful CEOs calls for U.S. officials "to facilitate the peaceful transition of power"
> And even if you did go through the legwork of the 25th, it will still ultimately be decided by a 2/3rds vote in the House/Senate
If I'm reading the 25th right, the Congress has three weeks before they have to vote on it. If they don't get 2/3rds vote, he's president again. Biden will be inaugurated in two weeks. Which means speaker Pelosi could simply schedule the vote to occur on January 21st. So no need for a vote in Congress.
>...is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office... > I don't think by any reasonable definition could you say that he is not able to perform the functions of the presidency.
A sizeable percentage of the country would disagree, saying he is apparently incapable of discharging his office per his path to protect the Constitution.
The 25th provides that the cabinet can remove the president *despite* the president's written objections, so clearly the 25th is designed to include a president who can still talk and write and such.
It seems to me that for any president, if a majority *of his own hand-picked cabinet* say he's incapable of the job, then he is incapable of the job. These are men and women whom the president chose, who have loyalty to him. If they think he has lost the mental or psychological ability to do the job, I believe them.
Ps, the job would go to the president's hand-picked successor, whom the president chose, so it's not like the 25th could be used by the opposite party to take power.
It's the president's own people, deciding he can't do it and handing the reins to the successor the president chose.
A sizeable percentage of the country would disagree, saying he is apparently incapable of discharging his office per his path to protect the Constitution.
To be fair they've been saying that for four years.
The issue is the sizeable percentage of the country that think he's the only person in Washington that is capable of protecting the constitution.
Invoking 25th is dangerous, as this will create precedent for the future and make it easier to use. Trump has 2 weeks left, the system is holding despite everything he has done. Trust it will hold for 2 more weeks and don't ask for dangerous actions for symbolic reasons.
Invoking 25th is dangerous, as this will create precedent for the future and make it easier to use.
Not as dangerous a precedent as a sitting President siccing a crazed mob of thousands of people onto Congress while they are busy formally declaring him a loser.
I agree. Using the 25th is, I think, an escalation of abuse of constitutional and statutory vagueness for political gain that put is in this fucking cesspool.
That, plus a desperate attempt to get back in control of the news cycle after Twitter gave him a 12 hour ban, seems to be the cause. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he walks it back. He's raised over half a billion dollars in donations since losing. He's not going to stop until the money does.
"These are things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
This is batshit insane, to the point the guy deserves to be 25th-ed. A MAGA mob invaded the Capitol today, and someone died.
This technique is called the "Big Lie" approach. It is really old, but it was named by Hitler and perfected by Goebbels. It basically works like this (from Wikipedia): A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique used for political purpose. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
It works well on people that want to believe and do not have the skills or will to do any fact-checking. It also clearly separates those people from everybody else (who will just react with a "WTF?") and nicely creates a well-defined filter bubble by basically cutting the communication channels between the believers and those that see reality. If you want to create a violent mob, it is one of the means of choice. The part about "go home in peace" is just to cover his ass, and that will hopefully fail when this goes to court. He is clearly inciting violence and knows it. A POTUS cannot credibly claim being stupid and not aware of the consequences of such actions.
The irony is that many in this country and around the world WILL remember this day forever. Just not for the reasons he would like.
January 6, 2021 is the day that the President of the United States of America gave his tacit approval to insurrectionists forcibly intruding on a joint session of the United States Congress to verify and certify his successor, upending a 230+ year tradition of peacefully transitioning power in the oldest representative democracy on Earth.
What a shameful act, from a truly repreh
In seeking the unattainable, simplicity only gets in the way.
-- Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN Sept. 1982
Needs to be preserved (Score:5, Insightful)
Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Informative)
Here's what President un-elect Trump said in the video he tweeted, then later removed:
--
I know your pain. I know youâ(TM)re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it especially the other side.
But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We donâ(TM)t want anybody hurt. Itâ(TM)s a very tough period of time, thereâ(TM)s never been a time like
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
And, just a while later:
"These are things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
This is batshit insane, to the point the guy deserves to be 25th-ed. A MAGA mob invaded the Capitol today, and someone died.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
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It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
So people planting bombs and violently storming buildings are "patriots". Nice!
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They are ,but only when there is an American embassy nearby.
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I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then ...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
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Riding his coattails, as absurd as it seems. The Trump family are probably, maybe, all universally smarter than Donald and while he does most of this out of narcissistic delusion, they see strategy and opportunity. These supporters are a gold mine, both politically and financially. While they have the Trump name and such a strong association they're going to milk this for what it's worth.
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Probably. They are also riding a tiger that may, at any time, throw and devour them. By now they are consorting with terrorists, thinly veiled.
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The Trump family are probably, maybe, all universally smarter than Donald
I don't know. His boys are pretty fucking stupid. The Girls seem alright; though unfortunately tainted by his personality disorders.
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I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then ...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
Especially in this family, money is the only value that counts. Donald holds the purse strings, and few of his chlidren appear inclined to risk being cut off. The only proven strategy to staying in his good books is blatant and constant pandering to his whims, delusions, prejudices and desires, something each of them learned to do as toddlers.
Added bonus: being shamelss suck-ups put them into postions of political power they could never achieve on their own. Realistically, none of the Trump childre
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Interesting)
As a life long R voter (since '76), I didn't vote that way in '16 for the first time ever. The man is a loon.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. Good for you. There is a line when it does not become about Democrat or Republican but it becomes about the future of the country. Trump is way over that line.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Unlike many, I decided long ago, that the opposition isn't the enemy. They simply believe their way is the best for the country. I prefer to discuss issues rather than party, because I don't always follow party lines. Just as I hoped Obama would do well, I hope Joe does too. I just don't think he will.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope Joe does too. I just don't think he will.
I have reservations too; but at the very least, I trust him not to be a malicious fucking ghoul toeing the line of just how much state power is acceptable to wield against people who piss you off; and that is enough of an improvement for me to feel better about... well, everything.
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A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
You are lucky. Apparently you have not been put at risk by the opposition's policies, taking away vital healthcare, trying to take control of your bodily autonomy, militarizing the police against you etc.
Unfortunately that's the reality for a lot of Americans. If the other lot get into power their lives are on the line. It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
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A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
The question is whether they do not understand what they are doing or whether they want to see the country burn. They just got a tiny taste of what that may be like.
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taking away vital healthcare
While the ACA got millions insured. The only people who've lost are middle class who make too much to qualify for help, and can't afford the high premiums on their own. For the first time ever, I considered dumping my company sponsored retiree insurance because the cost and deductibles have gotten to the point where I really only want insurance against catastrophic events. Between just my wife and I, our insurance is over $20k/year, and rising at an unsustainable rate...especially when you're on a fixed
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It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
It is a political disagreement. What we need to stop is the idea that being "political" somehow makes it OK. Some people's political opinion is that I ought to be killed and if they attempt to implement it they will do so with politics.
Politics isn't a free pass and some people will do great evil with it.
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Or they just see the political advantage. They've discovered some words of power which, when spoken, direct a torrent of anger at their opponents - and thus raise the turn-out rate among their own supporters.
No-one needs to actually know what the words mean. They mean un-American and dangerous, and that's all that is needed.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well said.
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As a life long R voter (since '76), I didn't vote that way in '16 for the first time ever. The man is a loon.
I went Johnson/Weld in 2016 for the same reason.
Serious question to a life long GOP voter (Score:2)
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
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Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
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Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
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No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
They might just decide that it is better to clean this up for 8 or 12 years and then having a chance to win elections again. Also these 15% may well make far more of their other voters turn away in disgust.
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No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
There's one thing they can do: fast track impeachment and conviction. They can then declare Trump disqualified from holding further federal office. Or, if they invoke the 25th Amendment, hard to come back from that as well: a lot of people wouldn't support someone who was removed due to being unfit.
Terms of Service (Score:2)
Racist statements: no problem
Sexist statements: no problem
Homophobic statements: no problem
Lies and conspiracies (general): no problem
Lies and conspiracies (election related): tagged with a correction
Inciting violent insurrection: 12 hour suspension
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It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their snake pit
FTFY. Mitchs speech last knight was priceless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] . He's basically the architect behind obstructionism [wikipedia.org] but now he pretends to be surprised and appalled by it.
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I bet that man hates Trump more than anyone. But he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. US politics is polarized and abhors a traitor, so he has to play ball with Trump. It's totally self serving and precisely what you don't want in a leader, but it's how you stay in power.
Now Trump is on his way out, and has finally gone far enough McConnell can publicly break with him and possibly even win points.
That was toady glee you saw on his face in that speech.
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Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Remember the names of those that still decided to contest the electors from Arizona and Pennsylvania:
Cruz. Hawley. Marshall. Tuberville. Hyde-Smith. Kennedy. Scott. Lummis. The Senate Insurrection Caucus.
Along with over 100 GOP members of Congress.
These people violated their oaths, some taken just days ago, and worked against out democracy and supported insurrection.
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It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Snakes in the same pit are fairly tolerant of each other...
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
The Tweet is pretty clear. It's not even that long, so here is the text:
"American patriots - any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable".
It seems pretty disingenuous for the Trump family to whip up a crowd of people with inflammatory rhetoric, and then walk it back when the crowd does the thing you've just goaded them to do.
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Then later give a video where he alternates calls for peace with restating his assertion that he won the election and expressing his admiration for the mob. He's doing the classical politician thing: Saying things to appeal to both sides, even when those things are contradictory.
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Plus declaring them as patriots. They're invading congress to overturn a democratic results and waving the flag of a failed sedition. And he calls them "patriots". He's still encouraging them.
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After all the court cases failed.
When the votes don't go your way, go to the courts. When the courts don't go your way, strong-arm the vote counters to call it for you. When that doesn't work, gin up an angry mob and attack your enemies.
Having your court cases laughed out of court makes you a fucking moron, but that's legal. Everything after that is not. If the Democrats don't prosecute a whole lot of election interference cases after this, they are holding the door open for it to happen in the future.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
So she's addressing those who did not storm the capital and who did not attend Trump's impromptu speech this morning? She meant patriots like Romney, Sasse, Murkowski, Barr, Muller, Vinderman, etc?
But you know, when Republicans say "patriot" they really mean only those who are extremely conservative, and most recently they must also be highly staunch Trump supporters with no conservative Rhinos allowed. But their true colors show now, and it seems these Trumpists are really the ones who hate America.
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Barr is partly responsible for this, he ignored the threat of white nationalism and MAGA terrorism.
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Of course, of course YOU know what they mean better than they do.
In my less than humble opinion, you are using a very narrow ambiguity in her statement to err on the side of good faith when she has given you precisely no reason to think that it's true. After all, there were very fine people on both sides.
I think your attempt at arguing for that, is in itself actually in bad faith. I don't believe you really think she meant the dumb shit that you're saying. Your explanation is prima facie hard to swallow, and that's without even carefully analyzing the statement history
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American Patriots - any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable.
The violence must stop immediately. Please be peaceful.
The subject is quite clear.
So I must ask, what the fuck are you talking about you dumb fuck?
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You imagine Portland burned down, or that the people protesting weren't also the people who live in the city?
You're a fucking moron. You don't get to decide that our cities are being self-terrorized.
You're just a fascist, there is no mincing words now.
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Derp derp?
Get back in the pile!
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4)
In general, what can be said, is that the authorities tried to use as light of a hand as they could, and let generally harmless behavior slide. Whether or not that was the right call is a fun thing to debate, but it wasn't Mad Max here.
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What authorities "let slide" in Seattle was much more common, prolonged and violent than what happened in DC yesterday.
Oh, horse shit.
I walked around that shit many times during it. Toured the "CHAzwhatthefuckever" multiple times.
There was very little damage downtown, and no stormed government buildings.
One concludes that authorities should have also let this "slide" if they wanted to be consistent in their standards.
I'm unsure what you think the City of Seattle has to do with the Federal Capitol with regards to standards consistency.
You're a dumbshit.
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Yeah, here's the problem with that: during all that "terrorizing" of Portland, if you would have actually driven past the Hatfield courthouse at any given time throughout that period except for at some very distinct moments, you would have seen literally nothing going on except some people camping in the park block across the street, and maybe a barbecue.
That whole thing was completely sensationalized and overblown on cable TV news. How do I know? I drove right past that courthouse several times during th
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He mentioned that she called these people "American Patriots."
And the fact is, she did.
It was a plea for their mob that they incited to go home. You can't call your mob a mob, otherwise they're not your mob anymore. She was hedging, and fuck her. And fuck you for your reality distortion field.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
were there because they wanted the election to be audited
Nope. They wanted Trump declared the winner.
One more audit (which would, of course, show that Biden won) wouldn't make any difference to that crowd; they've been lied to repeatedly, and they want to believe the lie.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Even Trump's supporters won't believe that he'll do that.
Especially since the statement came through Scavino's twitter feed,
Re: Transcript of the Tweet (Score:2)
Supported though by a tweet from his daughter.
When has that meant ANYTHING? When his friends, family, and staff say things for him that we know he didn't want to say, or he'd have said it, he tweets his true feelings in less than 24h.
We've had four years of this just as president, and he's a professional liar for life that makes a politician blush.
His daughter is wishfully thinking if she speaks aloud, it will be true, so it must run in the family. He will contradict her in 3... 2... 1...
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
In the United States, there are no national elections. Elections are conducted, audited, and certified by the states. For presidential elections, a slate of electors is selected by each state under the rules they establish.
Congress and the Federal government have no role in conducting, auditing, or certifying the vote. The 12th Amendment is clear: Congress' responsibility is to simply count the electoral votes certified by the states and announce the winner.
The place to audit the vote is in each state, and for most of the swing states in the 2020 election that was done according to state law. For example, after the initial count, Georgia audited the vote based on the paper ballot reciepts, and then did a full recount after that at the request of the Trump Campaign.
It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
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It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
Or perhaps you do.
I jest, mostly.
What you're going to want to look for is the Election of 1876, the Compromise of 1877, and the Electoral Count Act.
The Constitution is actually pretty vague on the whole process. Particularly, in what constitutes an official electoral slate?
It doesn't say.
So what happens when the Governor sends a signed set in, and then the Secretary of State does too?
Where is the federal jurisdiction on who is correct? Of course, there is none.
So we kick it back to the states, right
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Dude, cut out the fucking gaslighting.
Ted Kaczynski was just trying to bring awareness to the destruction of freedom brought on by the capitalist industrial complex.
He did this by fucking setting off bombs and killing people, so yes, I'm saying that makes him not an advocate for social change.
These fucks didn't go and protest, they fucking stormed the capitol building wearing campaign slogans.
As for the people who *were* peaceful- they obviously don't apply.
But neither does Ivanka's fucking tweet.
Alternatively: Ya, you're right. She was asking the peaceful protesters to stop attacking the US capitol.
I'm beginning to wonder if you have successfully fucking gaslit yourself.
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The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Are you claiming that makes them non-American or non-patriotic?
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
He could be insane, or merely deluded, or just lying to stoke the flames. But nothing about his speeches are responsible. The evidence does lean towards something between insane and deluded, possibly senility is setting in. Which happens when some people are old, it's not unexpected. The bizarre part is that there are followers who are also believing the delusions despite a total and complete lack of evidence. Our very own copy of King George III, only with more power and publicity and no one trying to hide it.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
He could be insane, or merely deluded, or just lying to stoke the flames.
And it makes no difference. The guy is clearly unfit to be president, and i see no way he can do an effective job as POTUS over the next two weeks after today.
I mean, have we forgotten he actually encouraged all of this? Like, not a week ago?
https://twitter.com/realDonald... [twitter.com]
https://twitter.com/realDonald... [twitter.com]
https://twitter.com/realDonald... [twitter.com]
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
The National Association of Manufacturers, a major group advocating for improving the economy with a long history, and not a group one could reasonably call liberal, has suggested that the 25th amendment should be invoked by Pence.
https://www.nam.org/manufactur... [nam.org]
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
The National Association of Manufacturers, a major group advocating for improving the economy with a long history, and not a group one could reasonably call liberal, has suggested that the 25th amendment should be invoked by Pence.
https://www.nam.org/manufactur... [nam.org]
Pence has thrown the coup plotter under the bus. Piers Morgan posted the one paragraph letter [twitter.com] Mike Pence wrote. In short, come tomorrow, when the Senate reconvenes, Pence will drive the last nail into the con artist's coffin and certify Joe Biden as the next president, as he is legally obligated to do, and nothing else.
Pence is also the one who called for the National Guard [nytimes.com] to be mobilized, not the con artist.
Which reminds me, are all those "militias" we've heard so much about of late going to roll into DC and help suppress this terrorist mob? You know, like Washington used the militia to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.
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And people have told me here that they were more worried about Pence becoming president if Trump was forced out or left. I think instead that my gut feeling is right, and Pence is at least devout enough to do the right thing. Trump is only pretending to be a Christian and it's blatantly obvious (though he has been to church many times, once for each wife). Pence is probably just along for the ride, hoping like many evangelicals that Trump enacts some policies that they like, all the while hoping that he'
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Pence is at least devout enough to do the right thing.
You want devout religious rule like in Iran?
Trump is only pretending to be a Christian
Not his fault there. So is half of the Congress. It is required in American politics. So many are blatantly corrupt, but it is ignored if they are, or pretend to be religious. Funny country.
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Pence is at least devout enough to do the right thing.
You want devout religious rule like in Iran?
Trump is only pretending to be a Christian
Not his fault there. So is half of the Congress. It is required in American politics. So many are blatantly corrupt, but it is ignored if they are, or pretend to be religious. Funny country.
It most certainly is his fault. If you feel it’s required to lie to the public to get elected, you probably shouldn’t be elected.
I agree with the poster who prefers Pence. I’d rather have someone in office doing what he believes is right than someone who is there solely for the power.
And I’m an atheist, for the record, who believes that current Christianity causes a lot of harm.
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I agree with the poster who prefers Pence. I’d rather have someone in office doing what he believes is right than someone who is there solely for the power.
Right on. There's a big difference between someone who uses religion or other viewpoints for mere power and profit and someone who legitimately seeks to do what he or she feels is right. Such a person may still be mistaken about what is right, but not only would such a person be less likely to resort to evil methods to achieve his or her goal, but such a person would also be in a better position to listen to others' viewpoints and be corrected. People can certainly point to plenty of examples where we Chris
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I agree. I do think he is sincerely devout, which is not a common trait among self-proclaimed Christian politicians. Sincerity is something that people should at least appreciate, whether or not they agree with someoner's views. I certainly did not agree with Hillary Clinton's politicies, but I thought she was at least well-qualified for the job both because of her experience and because I think she sincerely believes in her views; I do not think she was merely towing a party line. It's much easier to win a
That was when the GOP held all branches of Gov't (Score:2)
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The National Association of Manufacturers, a major group advocating for improving the economy with a long history, and not a group one could reasonably call liberal, has suggested that the 25th amendment should be invoked by Pence.
https://www.nam.org/manufactur... [nam.org]
Pence has thrown the coup plotter under the bus. Piers Morgan posted the one paragraph letter [twitter.com] Mike Pence wrote. In short, come tomorrow, when the Senate reconvenes, Pence will drive the last nail into the con artist's coffin and certify Joe Biden as the next president, as he is legally obligated to do, and nothing else.
Pence is also the one who called for the National Guard [nytimes.com] to be mobilized, not the con artist.
Which reminds me, are all those "militias" we've heard so much about of late going to roll into DC and help suppress this terrorist mob? You know, like Washington used the militia to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.
Pence did more Presidenting in those few hours yesterday than Trump has done since the election. In my mind, Pence is essentially acting President at this point.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
There has been a history in the Republican party in some states (and you can guess which) where they show that they do not want more people to vote because they know that they'll lose power that way. Ie, if more people could vote then more people might accidentally vote for the wrong party. Thus for many decades there has been a slow effort to make it harder to register to vote, harder to actually vote, easier to strike voters from the rolls, and so forth. Not all Republicans of course, some have seen the writing on the wall and realized that to stay relevant that they must change their style, be more inclusive, and so forth. Even in 2015-2016, there was a push by Republican leadership to become more inclusive, to court the minority votes much more heavily, to stop being jingoistic and anti-immigrant, etc; but that flew out the window when Trump entered the picture and doubled down.
Look at it this way. California, the bluest of the blue states, has an independent commision to establish voting districts, whereas Texas, the reddest of the red states has redistricting under total control of the Republican legislature - which of the two appeals the most to a democratic process that favors all voters regardless of party affiliation? You don't have to abandon the Republicans or their ideals to get more fairness in elections, you just need to encourage your party's leadership to respect democracy.
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If you think Texas is the reddest of red states, you need to take a look at a polling map from the last few years. While the possibility was still slim and didn’t come to pass, most news outlets had Texas listed as a potential swing state in this last election, and expect that it will definitely be one by the next election.
Texas has long had one of the highest rates of immigration from other states in the country, most of which is coming from blue states, and it’s been slowly, inexorably shiftin
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In terms of population, Texas outweighs the other red states. Although, as pointed out in xkcd (https://xkcd.com/2399/) when you look at numbers, California had more Trump voters than Texas did, and Texas had more Biden voters than New York... So maybe California is the reddest state?
The current Republican party couldn't survive (Score:3)
The GOP is Minority Rule. They manipulate systems to seize power in defiance of democracy. The party needs to die or they'll eventually get a better, more competent Trump and end the charade and w
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because Democracy requires Informed Consent
I would say the last few years shows it doesn't.
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because Democracy requires Informed Consent
I would say the last few years shows it doesn't.
Well, it requires informed consent to work well. If you are comfortable with a violence-inciting nil-whit narcissist liar in office, the "informed" part clearly becomes optional.
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Work well for whom?
"I am your dictator. You will do as I tell you or I will have you killed. You have been informed."
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What you have now is an oligarchy where information is highly managed. Those left out may be seriously misinformed but they are motivated by a shared feeling they are being excluded.
It's this shared feeling which counts, not so much the theories they make up. And right now what do we get? Calls for more censorship. You know, to improve how informed people are. That'll work out just fine I bet!
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
Well said. There is also research to back this up, which clocks the "authoritarian followers" at around 30% in the US: https://theauthoritarians.org/ [theauthoritarians.org]
I highly recommend this. It is entirely readable and explains a lot.
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Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
It really is sad to take a common goal and politicize it this much. Make America Great Again. Won't be long before those four words are treated like the "Not Sees", and banned from electronic print.
We Americans should remember it was the "great" situation we were in before, that elected President Trump. I wouldn't be surprised to find future candidates in ALL parties asking to make our country great again once this round of corruption flows through the swamp. Slogan rings a little better than "America i
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Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
It really is sad to take a common goal and politicize it this much. Make America Great Again. Won't be long before those four words are treated like the "Not Sees", and banned from publication.
We Americans should remember it was the "great" situation we were in before, that elected President Trump. I wouldn't be surprised to find future candidates in ALL parties asking to make our country great again once this round of corruption flows through the swamp. Slogan rings a little better than "America is NOT a S
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Most of the MAGAts are brainwashed cretins raised since childhood not to question authority and to believe everything they say without a shred of evidence. Religion and Democracy are incompatible, because Democracy requires Informed Consent, where Religion requires complete obedience and the rejection of critical thinking and self awareness.
Umm... nice rant, but pretty far from reality. In the first place, the "brainwashed" right is based on a distrust of authority, not a trust of it. It has a lot to do with cultural shifts in the USA; think about how much themes of corrupt authority and conspiracy come to the fore in the 1990's. The far-right's sense of being embattled, under siege, has everything to do with a distrust of authority. Believing in conspiracy theories is not the same thing as trusting authority. Certainly they do put their trust
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I think Trump is in some king of "narcissistic rage" where he slowly loses all residual inhibitions and shows what he really thinks. May come back to bite him, he clearly is inciting violence by any normal standards, despite the disclaimers he (still) attaches. What he is using is entirely rational though, even if the motivation is not. It is a technique called the "Big Lie": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
His cabinet is discussing removing him (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently his cabinet members are discussing removing him via the 25th amendment, even though there are only two weeks left in his term.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politic... [go.com]
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https://www.marketwatch.com/st... [marketwatch.com]
National Association of Manufacturers asks Pence to "seriously consider" invoking 25th Amendment, group comprising powerful CEOs calls for U.S. officials "to facilitate the peaceful transition of power"
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...is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office...
I don't think by any reasonable definition could you say that he is not able to perform the functions of the presidency.
If they think he has incited rebellion/sedition/whatever, that is what impeachment is for.
And even if you did go through the legwork of the 25th, it will still ultimately be decided by a 2/3rds vote in the House/Senate.
Save the 25th for it's real purpose; an
Re:His cabinet is discussing removing him (Score:4)
> And even if you did go through the legwork of the 25th, it will still ultimately be decided by a 2/3rds vote in the House/Senate
If I'm reading the 25th right, the Congress has three weeks before they have to vote on it. If they don't get 2/3rds vote, he's president again. Biden will be inaugurated in two weeks. Which means speaker Pelosi could simply schedule the vote to occur on January 21st. So no need for a vote in Congress.
> ...is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office...
> I don't think by any reasonable definition could you say that he is not able to perform the functions of the presidency.
A sizeable percentage of the country would disagree, saying he is apparently incapable of discharging his office per his path to protect the Constitution.
The 25th provides that the cabinet can remove the president *despite* the president's written objections, so clearly the 25th is designed to include a president who can still talk and write and such.
It seems to me that for any president, if a majority *of his own hand-picked cabinet* say he's incapable of the job, then he is incapable of the job. These are men and women whom the president chose, who have loyalty to him. If they think he has lost the mental or psychological ability to do the job, I believe them.
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Ps, the job would go to the president's hand-picked successor, whom the president chose, so it's not like the 25th could be used by the opposite party to take power.
It's the president's own people, deciding he can't do it and handing the reins to the successor the president chose.
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A sizeable percentage of the country would disagree, saying he is apparently incapable of discharging his office per his path to protect the Constitution.
To be fair they've been saying that for four years.
The issue is the sizeable percentage of the country that think he's the only person in Washington that is capable of protecting the constitution.
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Invoking 25th is dangerous, as this will create precedent for the future and make it easier to use.
Not as dangerous a precedent as a sitting President siccing a crazed mob of thousands of people onto Congress while they are busy formally declaring him a loser.
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Looks like this is real, Trump conceded (Score:2)
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
And, just a while later:
"These are things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
This is batshit insane, to the point the guy deserves to be 25th-ed. A MAGA mob invaded the Capitol today, and someone died.
This technique is called the "Big Lie" approach. It is really old, but it was named by Hitler and perfected by Goebbels. It basically works like this (from Wikipedia): A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique used for political purpose. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
It works well on people that want to believe and do not have the skills or will to do any fact-checking. It also clearly separates those people from everybody else (who will just react with a "WTF?") and nicely creates a well-defined filter bubble by basically cutting the communication channels between the believers and those that see reality. If you want to create a violent mob, it is one of the means of choice. The part about "go home in peace" is just to cover his ass, and that will hopefully fail when this goes to court. He is clearly inciting violence and knows it. A POTUS cannot credibly claim being stupid and not aware of the consequences of such actions.
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"He says everything I want to hear, so he can't be a liar or a lunatic".
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Same principle, agreed.
Obligatory (Score:2)
This claim of insanity is being disputed.
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The irony is that many in this country and around the world WILL remember this day forever. Just not for the reasons he would like.
January 6, 2021 is the day that the President of the United States of America gave his tacit approval to insurrectionists forcibly intruding on a joint session of the United States Congress to verify and certify his successor, upending a 230+ year tradition of peacefully transitioning power in the oldest representative democracy on Earth.
What a shameful act, from a truly repreh