Here's what President un-elect Trump said in the video he tweeted, then later removed:
-- I know your pain. I know youâ(TM)re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it especially the other side.
But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We donâ(TM)t want anybody hurt. Itâ(TM)s a very tough period of time, thereâ(TM)s never been a time like
"These are things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
This is batshit insane, to the point the guy deserves to be 25th-ed. A MAGA mob invaded the Capitol today, and someone died.
It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
Riding his coattails, as absurd as it seems. The Trump family are probably, maybe, all universally smarter than Donald and while he does most of this out of narcissistic delusion, they see strategy and opportunity. These supporters are a gold mine, both politically and financially. While they have the Trump name and such a strong association they're going to milk this for what it's worth.
Don Jr seems quite the air-head, he is probably the most likely to genuinely buy into orange daddy's madness. Eric... I'm not so sure. Ideally it doesn't matter and they can all just fade away from relevance, but I fear that this wave of near insance populism is quite powerful.
I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
Especially in this family, money is the only value that counts. Donald holds the purse strings, and few of his chlidren appear inclined to risk being cut off. The only proven strategy to staying in his good books is blatant and constant pandering to his whims, delusions, prejudices and desires, something each of them learned to do as toddlers. Added bonus: being shamelss suck-ups put them into postions of political power they could never achieve on their own. Realistically, none of the Trump childre
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Indeed. Good for you. There is a line when it does not become about Democrat or Republican but it becomes about the future of the country. Trump is way over that line.
Unlike many, I decided long ago, that the opposition isn't the enemy. They simply believe their way is the best for the country. I prefer to discuss issues rather than party, because I don't always follow party lines. Just as I hoped Obama would do well, I hope Joe does too. I just don't think he will.
I have reservations too; but at the very least, I trust him not to be a malicious fucking ghoul toeing the line of just how much state power is acceptable to wield against people who piss you off; and that is enough of an improvement for me to feel better about... well, everything.
A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
You are lucky. Apparently you have not been put at risk by the opposition's policies, taking away vital healthcare, trying to take control of your bodily autonomy, militarizing the police against you etc.
Unfortunately that's the reality for a lot of Americans. If the other lot get into power their lives are on the line. It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
The bar is set so low by your beloved Republicans that I am sure Biden will do well by that measure. So sick of people complaining about democrats on the day after a significant number of republicans cheered an attack on congress.
At some point, the election demagoguery needs to end and the governing needs to begin.
That never happened in the last 4 years. Hopefully recent events spawn a sudden outbreak of common sense and these asshole enablers in the Congress (I'm looking at you, Ted Cruz, you mewing little lap dog bootlicking appeaser) see what they've been building and pull back from it.
A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
The question is whether they do not understand what they are doing or whether they want to see the country burn. They just got a tiny taste of what that may be like.
While the ACA got millions insured. The only people who've lost are middle class who make too much to qualify for help, and can't afford the high premiums on their own. For the first time ever, I considered dumping my company sponsored retiree insurance because the cost and deductibles have gotten to the point where I really only want insurance against catastrophic events. Between just my wife and I, our insurance is over $20k/year, and rising at an unsustainable rate...especially when you're on a fixed
It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
It is a political disagreement. What we need to stop is the idea that being "political" somehow makes it OK. Some people's political opinion is that I ought to be killed and if they attempt to implement it they will do so with politics.
Politics isn't a free pass and some people will do great evil with it.
Or they just see the political advantage. They've discovered some words of power which, when spoken, direct a torrent of anger at their opponents - and thus raise the turn-out rate among their own supporters.
No-one needs to actually know what the words mean. They mean un-American and dangerous, and that's all that is needed.
The bar is set so low by your beloved Republicans that I am sure Biden will do well by that measure. So sick of people complaining about democrats on the day after a significant number of republicans cheered an attack on congress.
First of all, let me flat out denounce what was done at Capital Hill. I hope rioters go to jail, and anyone who supports them can fuck off.
As for complaining about democrats the day after, well you just tossed that in for no apparent reason since I did no such thing. Less hate, and more discussion of issues is the way we need to move forward.
There is literally no such thing as a fake impeachment.
The Russian situation was far from fake as well. The fear that there was collusion with the Russians is, in the end, unclear; but there were *heaps* of circumstantial evidence found.
I'm not blind. You just have no fucking idea how your Government works statutorily and constitutionally.
To the contrary, it's because I know where babies come from that I understand it doesn't kill a human being.
In any case if you want to make that argument then it should extend to adult humans as well, i.e. if your body is required to sustain someone else's life for the next 9 months you should have no choice in the matter because to do otherwise would be killing them. Say they needed a transplant but could be hooked into your bloodstream while on the waiting list, but you didn't want to be tethered to them.
it should be that way every single time and vote for the correct person for the job, its not a sporting event where you support your team regardless of their competency.
how do you feel about the revelations that Reagan delayed the release of hostages for political gain? IIRC the last of the files got declassified this year (with everything going on it was barely a blip) and they've made it a matter of historic fact that Reagan did it. Though we've known since 2011.
My loyalty always has been, and never to party. In fact, I'm primarily a fiscal conservative, and disagree with the R platform on many social issues. I've long argued against people who call others RINO/DINO because it's an attempt to turn people into mindless drones who refuse to stand up for their own beliefs. We should all be talking about issues, not parties.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
They might just decide that it is better to clean this up for 8 or 12 years and then having a chance to win elections again. Also these 15% may well make far more of their other voters turn away in disgust.
I don't think it is that easy. In a simplistic sense, there are 40% Ds, 40% Rs, and 20% independents (at the national level - deep red states are probably 95%R, 4%D, 1%I or less). Ds and Rs both have their extremist wings. For the D's is the Bernie Bros. For the R's it's white nationals. Often the extreme wings don't vote - the mainstream candidates just don't throw enough red meat their way (Trump brought these guys to the table in a big way). So each party ends up in the 30% bucket or so, but you've
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
There's one thing they can do: fast track impeachment and conviction. They can then declare Trump disqualified from holding further federal office. Or, if they invoke the 25th Amendment, hard to come back from that as well: a lot of people wouldn't support someone who was removed due to being unfit.
Maybe what the GOP needs to do, is change their rules to make DJT ineligible to run again as a Republican. Then he and his whackjob supporters can form a third party and self-marginalize. The GOP can go back to running moderate conservatives - they might even attract some moderate Dems that are tired of the antics of their party's "progressive" wing.
Even if Congress manages to pull off an Impeachment and conviction, it isn't at all clear that cout disqualify DJT from running in 2024. Article 3 says imoeachm
Hmm radical white supremacists versus "radical" health care that matches all other rich countries with more successful systems. I wonder which is more "radical."
The confederacy lost and is morally indefensible. A third of America has to get over this, they are hurting everyone including themselves.
It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their snake pit
FTFY. Mitchs speech last knight was priceless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] . He's basically the architect behind obstructionism [wikipedia.org] but now he pretends to be surprised and appalled by it.
I bet that man hates Trump more than anyone. But he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. US politics is polarized and abhors a traitor, so he has to play ball with Trump. It's totally self serving and precisely what you don't want in a leader, but it's how you stay in power.
Now Trump is on his way out, and has finally gone far enough McConnell can publicly break with him and possibly even win points.
That was toady glee you saw on his face in that speech.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Remember the names of those that still decided to contest the electors from Arizona and Pennsylvania:
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Not sure the Republican establisment (or anyone else) knew it at the time, but, once Trump began his run for the nomination,.the only way the Republicans can win the 2016 election is if Trump wins the nomination. I suspect no other Republican candidate could have beaten Clinton, as a defeated Trump would have reacted to losing the Republican nomination the same way he handled losing the presidency in 2020. The steady stream of Trump loudly and constantly blaming his loss on a rigged primary,
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
Anyone black doing it would be in a grave.
It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact
If the past four years, and every prior moment of Trump's life didn't wake someone up, Wednesday wouldn't either. What we're seeing in that guise is some recalculation of what actions and statements they believe maximize their psychopathic egos' futures.
they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
The Tweet is pretty clear. It's not even that long, so here is the text: "American patriots - any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable".
It seems pretty disingenuous for the Trump family to whip up a crowd of people with inflammatory rhetoric, and then walk it back when the crowd does the thing you've just goaded them to do.
Then later give a video where he alternates calls for peace with restating his assertion that he won the election and expressing his admiration for the mob. He's doing the classical politician thing: Saying things to appeal to both sides, even when those things are contradictory.
Plus declaring them as patriots. They're invading congress to overturn a democratic results and waving the flag of a failed sedition. And he calls them "patriots". He's still encouraging them.
When the votes don't go your way, go to the courts. When the courts don't go your way, strong-arm the vote counters to call it for you. When that doesn't work, gin up an angry mob and attack your enemies.
Having your court cases laughed out of court makes you a fucking moron, but that's legal. Everything after that is not. If the Democrats don't prosecute a whole lot of election interference cases after this, they are holding the door open for it to happen in the future.
So she's addressing those who did not storm the capital and who did not attend Trump's impromptu speech this morning? She meant patriots like Romney, Sasse, Murkowski, Barr, Muller, Vinderman, etc?
But you know, when Republicans say "patriot" they really mean only those who are extremely conservative, and most recently they must also be highly staunch Trump supporters with no conservative Rhinos allowed. But their true colors show now, and it seems these Trumpists are really the ones who hate America.
"Conservative" has nothing to do with it. Nobody gives a shit how long their hair is, how high their hemlines are, and if their toes are open. And they conserve nothing.
Of course, of course YOU know what they mean better than they do.
In my less than humble opinion, you are using a very narrow ambiguity in her statement to err on the side of good faith when she has given you precisely no reason to think that it's true. After all, there were very fine people on both sides.
I think your attempt at arguing for that, is in itself actually in bad faith. I don't believe you really think she meant the dumb shit that you're saying. Your explanation is prima facie hard to swallow, and that's without even carefully analyzing the statement history
It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
So people planting bombs and violently storming buildings are "patriots". Nice!
They were patriots in 1775 when trying to throw off the tyranny of a monarch that took without giving back.
The absolutely are not patriots in 2021 when trying to install the tyranny of a would-be autocrat over the wishes of We The People, as enshrined in the documents that these people on any other day would look to as sacrosanct. Remember all the arguments about the Constitution needing to be followed as written instead of "interpreted" - yeah, those same people were doing linguistic somersaults trying to
Remember all the arguments about the Constitution needing to be followed as written instead of "interpreted" - yeah, those same people were doing linguistic somersaults trying to find ways to redefine "all" and "shall" in order to let the VP call his own number.
Don't you think that if that was an option, every VP would just toss out enough votes in order to hand power to their party (or themselves in the case of a lost re-election bid) in the last 200 years?
Agreed, it would be a fatal flaw for any democracy. Pence recognized that truth and said as much.
While there is *no* doubt whatsoever that the "protests" absolutely devolved into riots on several occasions, as a denizen of downtown Seattle, I can tell you it wasn't as bad as you (seem) to believe it was.
In general, what can be said, is that the authorities tried to use as light of a hand as they could, and let generally harmless behavior slide. Whether or not that was the right call is a fun thing to debate, but it wasn't Mad Max here.
What authorities "let slide" in Seattle was much more common, prolonged and violent than what happened in DC yesterday.
Oh, horse shit.
I walked around that shit many times during it. Toured the "CHAzwhatthefuckever" multiple times.
There was very little damage downtown, and no stormed government buildings.
One concludes that authorities should have also let this "slide" if they wanted to be consistent in their standards.
I'm unsure what you think the City of Seattle has to do with the Federal Capitol with regards to standards consistency.
Yeah, here's the problem with that: during all that "terrorizing" of Portland, if you would have actually driven past the Hatfield courthouse at any given time throughout that period except for at some very distinct moments, you would have seen literally nothing going on except some people camping in the park block across the street, and maybe a barbecue.
That whole thing was completely sensationalized and overblown on cable TV news. How do I know? I drove right past that courthouse several times during th
Negative.
He mentioned that she called these people "American Patriots."
And the fact is, she did.
It was a plea for their mob that they incited to go home. You can't call your mob a mob, otherwise they're not your mob anymore. She was hedging, and fuck her. And fuck you for your reality distortion field.
were there because they wanted the election to be audited
Nope. They wanted Trump declared the winner.
One more audit (which would, of course, show that Biden won) wouldn't make any difference to that crowd; they've been lied to repeatedly, and they want to believe the lie.
When has that meant ANYTHING? When his friends, family, and staff say things for him that we know he didn't want to say, or he'd have said it, he tweets his true feelings in less than 24h.
We've had four years of this just as president, and he's a professional liar for life that makes a politician blush.
His daughter is wishfully thinking if she speaks aloud, it will be true, so it must run in the family. He will contradict her in 3... 2... 1...
In the United States, there are no national elections. Elections are conducted, audited, and certified by the states. For presidential elections, a slate of electors is selected by each state under the rules they establish.
Congress and the Federal government have no role in conducting, auditing, or certifying the vote. The 12th Amendment is clear: Congress' responsibility is to simply count the electoral votes certified by the states and announce the winner.
The place to audit the vote is in each state, and for most of the swing states in the 2020 election that was done according to state law. For example, after the initial count, Georgia audited the vote based on the paper ballot reciepts, and then did a full recount after that at the request of the Trump Campaign.
It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
Or perhaps you do.
I jest, mostly.
What you're going to want to look for is the Election of 1876, the Compromise of 1877, and the Electoral Count Act.
The Constitution is actually pretty vague on the whole process. Particularly, in what constitutes an official electoral slate?
It doesn't say.
So what happens when the Governor sends a signed set in, and then the Secretary of State does too?
Where is the federal jurisdiction on who is correct? Of course, there is none.
So we kick it back to the states, right
There are major problems with our electoral system that have survived thus far on nothing but good faith.
Back when Civics were taught in High School, I remember thinking how peculiar the whole Electoral College thing is. How an Elector can become a Bad-faith Elector and disenfranchise their state's voters. Have we lasted over two centuries because of, or despite, the Electoral College?
Definitely in spite of.
The only reason the system survived, is because it has, in 92% of elections, simply been a proxy for the popular vote, and the ones where it was not, were at least close.
But the system, and its overall poor design, has the capability of complete disenfranchisement.
There also exists a popular myth amount the right-wingers that the system was built to prevent demagoguery and tyranny, or what all; but it's just that- a myth.
One can read the debate that led to the elector system in th
The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Dude, cut out the fucking gaslighting.
Ted Kaczynski was just trying to bring awareness to the destruction of freedom brought on by the capitalist industrial complex.
He did this by fucking setting off bombs and killing people, so yes, I'm saying that makes him not an advocate for social change.
These fucks didn't go and protest, they fucking stormed the capitol building wearing campaign slogans.
As for the people who *were* peaceful- they obviously don't apply. But neither does Ivanka's fucking tweet.
Alternatively: Ya, you're right. She was asking the peaceful protesters to stop attacking the US capitol.
I'm beginning to wonder if you have successfully fucking gaslit yourself.
The election is audited at pretty much EVERY step of the process. The problem is that Trumps MAGA morons believe everything that comes out of his mouth and he's done NOTHING but lie about the election since day 1. Just because a small percentage of the population doesn't want to accept the results of the election doesn't mean that the election itself was fraudulent.
The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Are you claiming that makes them non-American or non-patriotic?
Needs to be preserved (Score:5, Insightful)
Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Informative)
Here's what President un-elect Trump said in the video he tweeted, then later removed:
--
I know your pain. I know youâ(TM)re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it especially the other side.
But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We donâ(TM)t want anybody hurt. Itâ(TM)s a very tough period of time, thereâ(TM)s never been a time like
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And, just a while later:
"These are things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
This is batshit insane, to the point the guy deserves to be 25th-ed. A MAGA mob invaded the Capitol today, and someone died.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
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Holy shit.
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I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then ...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
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Riding his coattails, as absurd as it seems. The Trump family are probably, maybe, all universally smarter than Donald and while he does most of this out of narcissistic delusion, they see strategy and opportunity. These supporters are a gold mine, both politically and financially. While they have the Trump name and such a strong association they're going to milk this for what it's worth.
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Probably. They are also riding a tiger that may, at any time, throw and devour them. By now they are consorting with terrorists, thinly veiled.
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The Trump family are probably, maybe, all universally smarter than Donald
I don't know. His boys are pretty fucking stupid. The Girls seem alright; though unfortunately tainted by his personality disorders.
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Don Jr seems quite the air-head, he is probably the most likely to genuinely buy into orange daddy's madness. Eric ... I'm not so sure. Ideally it doesn't matter and they can all just fade away from relevance, but I fear that this wave of near insance populism is quite powerful.
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I am somewhat surprised. Normally kids are a little bit rebellious towards their parents, sometimes politics swaps every generation (liberal, then conservative, then liberal, then ...). But the Trump kids are all deeply into their father's delusions. Maybe they see this as the way to get the inheritance safely. But the adult ones at least seem to be drinking the koolaid.
Especially in this family, money is the only value that counts. Donald holds the purse strings, and few of his chlidren appear inclined to risk being cut off. The only proven strategy to staying in his good books is blatant and constant pandering to his whims, delusions, prejudices and desires, something each of them learned to do as toddlers.
Added bonus: being shamelss suck-ups put them into postions of political power they could never achieve on their own. Realistically, none of the Trump childre
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Interesting)
As a life long R voter (since '76), I didn't vote that way in '16 for the first time ever. The man is a loon.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. Good for you. There is a line when it does not become about Democrat or Republican but it becomes about the future of the country. Trump is way over that line.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Unlike many, I decided long ago, that the opposition isn't the enemy. They simply believe their way is the best for the country. I prefer to discuss issues rather than party, because I don't always follow party lines. Just as I hoped Obama would do well, I hope Joe does too. I just don't think he will.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope Joe does too. I just don't think he will.
I have reservations too; but at the very least, I trust him not to be a malicious fucking ghoul toeing the line of just how much state power is acceptable to wield against people who piss you off; and that is enough of an improvement for me to feel better about... well, everything.
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A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
You are lucky. Apparently you have not been put at risk by the opposition's policies, taking away vital healthcare, trying to take control of your bodily autonomy, militarizing the police against you etc.
Unfortunately that's the reality for a lot of Americans. If the other lot get into power their lives are on the line. It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
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At some point, the election demagoguery needs to end and the governing needs to begin.
That never happened in the last 4 years. Hopefully recent events spawn a sudden outbreak of common sense and these asshole enablers in the Congress (I'm looking at you, Ted Cruz, you mewing little lap dog bootlicking appeaser) see what they've been building and pull back from it.
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A view that seems to be growing less common now. It started out on biased news sites, but the rhetoric is coming from Republican campaigns and the representatives themselves now: All democrats are now being labeled as 'radical lefists,' Marxists and Socialists.
The question is whether they do not understand what they are doing or whether they want to see the country burn. They just got a tiny taste of what that may be like.
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taking away vital healthcare
While the ACA got millions insured. The only people who've lost are middle class who make too much to qualify for help, and can't afford the high premiums on their own. For the first time ever, I considered dumping my company sponsored retiree insurance because the cost and deductibles have gotten to the point where I really only want insurance against catastrophic events. Between just my wife and I, our insurance is over $20k/year, and rising at an unsustainable rate...especially when you're on a fixed
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It's deadly serious, not just a political disagreement.
It is a political disagreement. What we need to stop is the idea that being "political" somehow makes it OK. Some people's political opinion is that I ought to be killed and if they attempt to implement it they will do so with politics.
Politics isn't a free pass and some people will do great evil with it.
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Or they just see the political advantage. They've discovered some words of power which, when spoken, direct a torrent of anger at their opponents - and thus raise the turn-out rate among their own supporters.
No-one needs to actually know what the words mean. They mean un-American and dangerous, and that's all that is needed.
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The bar is set so low by your beloved Republicans that I am sure Biden will do well by that measure. So sick of people complaining about democrats on the day after a significant number of republicans cheered an attack on congress.
First of all, let me flat out denounce what was done at Capital Hill. I hope rioters go to jail, and anyone who supports them can fuck off.
As for complaining about democrats the day after, well you just tossed that in for no apparent reason since I did no such thing. Less hate, and more discussion of issues is the way we need to move forward.
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The Russian situation was far from fake as well. The fear that there was collusion with the Russians is, in the end, unclear; but there were *heaps* of circumstantial evidence found.
I'm not blind. You just have no fucking idea how your Government works statutorily and constitutionally.
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If you don't know that abortion kills a different human body inside someone, you don't know where babies come from.
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To the contrary, it's because I know where babies come from that I understand it doesn't kill a human being.
In any case if you want to make that argument then it should extend to adult humans as well, i.e. if your body is required to sustain someone else's life for the next 9 months you should have no choice in the matter because to do otherwise would be killing them. Say they needed a transplant but could be hooked into your bloodstream while on the waiting list, but you didn't want to be tethered to them.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well said.
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As a life long R voter (since '76), I didn't vote that way in '16 for the first time ever. The man is a loon.
I went Johnson/Weld in 2016 for the same reason.
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As a life long R voter (since '76), I didn't vote that way in '16 for the first time ever. The man is a loon.
I went Johnson/Weld in 2016 for the same reason.
I went Johnson in 16. I went Biden in 20, because I knew what would happen if Trump remained president. Biden barely won my state.
Serious question to a life long GOP voter (Score:2)
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Pick a president, and I'm sure I can point to a scandal. If you think either side has clean hands, you're wearing blinders.
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Not even sure what that means. But, FWIW, I also voted for the D governor of my state this cycle.
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My loyalty always has been, and never to party. In fact, I'm primarily a fiscal conservative, and disagree with the R platform on many social issues. I've long argued against people who call others RINO/DINO because it's an attempt to turn people into mindless drones who refuse to stand up for their own beliefs. We should all be talking about issues, not parties.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
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Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
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Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
It's pretty amazing that it took them this long.
It is. But they are waking up now and begin to see what they have been a part of. They will have to do a lot of house-cleaning though.
No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
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No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
They might just decide that it is better to clean this up for 8 or 12 years and then having a chance to win elections again. Also these 15% may well make far more of their other voters turn away in disgust.
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No amount of house clearing will help the GOP now, Trump can be the sand in their eyes and the stink at their table from now on if he wants to. All Trump has to do is command the fanatical loyalty of 15% of the Republican voter base and the Republicans will have to kowtow to him and kiss his feet to win any election.
There's one thing they can do: fast track impeachment and conviction. They can then declare Trump disqualified from holding further federal office. Or, if they invoke the 25th Amendment, hard to come back from that as well: a lot of people wouldn't support someone who was removed due to being unfit.
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Maybe what the GOP needs to do, is change their rules to make DJT ineligible to run again as a Republican. Then he and his whackjob supporters can form a third party and self-marginalize. The GOP can go back to running moderate conservatives - they might even attract some moderate Dems that are tired of the antics of their party's "progressive" wing.
Even if Congress manages to pull off an Impeachment and conviction, it isn't at all clear that cout disqualify DJT from running in 2024. Article 3 says imoeachm
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The confederacy lost and is morally indefensible. A third of America has to get over this, they are hurting everyone including themselves.
Terms of Service (Score:2)
Racist statements: no problem
Sexist statements: no problem
Homophobic statements: no problem
Lies and conspiracies (general): no problem
Lies and conspiracies (election related): tagged with a correction
Inciting violent insurrection: 12 hour suspension
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It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their snake pit
FTFY. Mitchs speech last knight was priceless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] . He's basically the architect behind obstructionism [wikipedia.org] but now he pretends to be surprised and appalled by it.
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I bet that man hates Trump more than anyone. But he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. US politics is polarized and abhors a traitor, so he has to play ball with Trump. It's totally self serving and precisely what you don't want in a leader, but it's how you stay in power.
Now Trump is on his way out, and has finally gone far enough McConnell can publicly break with him and possibly even win points.
That was toady glee you saw on his face in that speech.
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Holy shit.
Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Remember the names of those that still decided to contest the electors from Arizona and Pennsylvania:
Cruz. Hawley. Marshall. Tuberville. Hyde-Smith. Kennedy. Scott. Lummis. The Senate Insurrection Caucus.
Along with over 100 GOP members of Congress.
These people violated their oaths, some taken just days ago, and worked against out democracy and supported insurrection.
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It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Snakes in the same pit are fairly tolerant of each other...
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Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
At least they are showing their true faces clearly now. It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
Not sure the Republican establisment (or anyone else) knew it at the time, but, once Trump began his run for the nomination,.the only way the Republicans can win the 2016 election is if Trump wins the nomination. I suspect no other Republican candidate could have beaten Clinton, as a defeated Trump would have reacted to losing the Republican nomination the same way he handled losing the presidency in 2020.
The steady stream of Trump loudly and constantly blaming his loss on a rigged primary,
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Indeed. Anybody else doing this would be in a supermax by now.
Anyone black doing it would be in a grave.
It also seems quite a few Republicans are slowly waking up to the fact
If the past four years, and every prior moment of Trump's life didn't wake someone up, Wednesday wouldn't either. What we're seeing in that guise is some recalculation of what actions and statements they believe maximize their psychopathic egos' futures.
they have invited a poisonous snake into their beds.
There are no poisonous snakes.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
The Tweet is pretty clear. It's not even that long, so here is the text:
"American patriots - any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable".
It seems pretty disingenuous for the Trump family to whip up a crowd of people with inflammatory rhetoric, and then walk it back when the crowd does the thing you've just goaded them to do.
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Then later give a video where he alternates calls for peace with restating his assertion that he won the election and expressing his admiration for the mob. He's doing the classical politician thing: Saying things to appeal to both sides, even when those things are contradictory.
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Plus declaring them as patriots. They're invading congress to overturn a democratic results and waving the flag of a failed sedition. And he calls them "patriots". He's still encouraging them.
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After all the court cases failed.
When the votes don't go your way, go to the courts. When the courts don't go your way, strong-arm the vote counters to call it for you. When that doesn't work, gin up an angry mob and attack your enemies.
Having your court cases laughed out of court makes you a fucking moron, but that's legal. Everything after that is not. If the Democrats don't prosecute a whole lot of election interference cases after this, they are holding the door open for it to happen in the future.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
So she's addressing those who did not storm the capital and who did not attend Trump's impromptu speech this morning? She meant patriots like Romney, Sasse, Murkowski, Barr, Muller, Vinderman, etc?
But you know, when Republicans say "patriot" they really mean only those who are extremely conservative, and most recently they must also be highly staunch Trump supporters with no conservative Rhinos allowed. But their true colors show now, and it seems these Trumpists are really the ones who hate America.
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Barr is partly responsible for this, he ignored the threat of white nationalism and MAGA terrorism.
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Of course, of course YOU know what they mean better than they do.
In my less than humble opinion, you are using a very narrow ambiguity in her statement to err on the side of good faith when she has given you precisely no reason to think that it's true. After all, there were very fine people on both sides.
I think your attempt at arguing for that, is in itself actually in bad faith. I don't believe you really think she meant the dumb shit that you're saying. Your explanation is prima facie hard to swallow, and that's without even carefully analyzing the statement history
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American Patriots - any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable.
The violence must stop immediately. Please be peaceful.
The subject is quite clear.
So I must ask, what the fuck are you talking about you dumb fuck?
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It gets even better. His plastic daughter tweeted out that the terrorists were patriots [ibtimes.com], then deleted the tweet, later saying she meant "peaceful" terrorists were patriots.
So people planting bombs and violently storming buildings are "patriots". Nice!
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They are ,but only when there is an American embassy nearby.
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They were patriots in 1775 when trying to throw off the tyranny of a monarch that took without giving back.
The absolutely are not patriots in 2021 when trying to install the tyranny of a would-be autocrat over the wishes of We The People, as enshrined in the documents that these people on any other day would look to as sacrosanct. Remember all the arguments about the Constitution needing to be followed as written instead of "interpreted" - yeah, those same people were doing linguistic somersaults trying to
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Remember all the arguments about the Constitution needing to be followed as written instead of "interpreted" - yeah, those same people were doing linguistic somersaults trying to find ways to redefine "all" and "shall" in order to let the VP call his own number.
Don't you think that if that was an option, every VP would just toss out enough votes in order to hand power to their party (or themselves in the case of a lost re-election bid) in the last 200 years?
Agreed, it would be a fatal flaw for any democracy. Pence recognized that truth and said as much.
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You imagine Portland burned down, or that the people protesting weren't also the people who live in the city?
You're a fucking moron. You don't get to decide that our cities are being self-terrorized.
You're just a fascist, there is no mincing words now.
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Derp derp?
Get back in the pile!
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4)
In general, what can be said, is that the authorities tried to use as light of a hand as they could, and let generally harmless behavior slide. Whether or not that was the right call is a fun thing to debate, but it wasn't Mad Max here.
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What authorities "let slide" in Seattle was much more common, prolonged and violent than what happened in DC yesterday.
Oh, horse shit.
I walked around that shit many times during it. Toured the "CHAzwhatthefuckever" multiple times.
There was very little damage downtown, and no stormed government buildings.
One concludes that authorities should have also let this "slide" if they wanted to be consistent in their standards.
I'm unsure what you think the City of Seattle has to do with the Federal Capitol with regards to standards consistency.
You're a dumbshit.
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Yeah, here's the problem with that: during all that "terrorizing" of Portland, if you would have actually driven past the Hatfield courthouse at any given time throughout that period except for at some very distinct moments, you would have seen literally nothing going on except some people camping in the park block across the street, and maybe a barbecue.
That whole thing was completely sensationalized and overblown on cable TV news. How do I know? I drove right past that courthouse several times during th
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He mentioned that she called these people "American Patriots."
And the fact is, she did.
It was a plea for their mob that they incited to go home. You can't call your mob a mob, otherwise they're not your mob anymore. She was hedging, and fuck her. And fuck you for your reality distortion field.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
were there because they wanted the election to be audited
Nope. They wanted Trump declared the winner.
One more audit (which would, of course, show that Biden won) wouldn't make any difference to that crowd; they've been lied to repeatedly, and they want to believe the lie.
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Well, Trump's just promised an orderly transition of power so I guess those people won't be happy now.
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Even Trump's supporters won't believe that he'll do that.
Especially since the statement came through Scavino's twitter feed,
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Supported though by a tweet from his daughter.
I accept it. In fact, let me be the first to congratulate Kamala Harris, the first woman to become US President.
Re: Transcript of the Tweet (Score:2)
Supported though by a tweet from his daughter.
When has that meant ANYTHING? When his friends, family, and staff say things for him that we know he didn't want to say, or he'd have said it, he tweets his true feelings in less than 24h.
We've had four years of this just as president, and he's a professional liar for life that makes a politician blush.
His daughter is wishfully thinking if she speaks aloud, it will be true, so it must run in the family. He will contradict her in 3... 2... 1...
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Seems like you're admitting you're one too Cederic
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Informative)
In the United States, there are no national elections. Elections are conducted, audited, and certified by the states. For presidential elections, a slate of electors is selected by each state under the rules they establish.
Congress and the Federal government have no role in conducting, auditing, or certifying the vote. The 12th Amendment is clear: Congress' responsibility is to simply count the electoral votes certified by the states and announce the winner.
The place to audit the vote is in each state, and for most of the swing states in the 2020 election that was done according to state law. For example, after the initial count, Georgia audited the vote based on the paper ballot reciepts, and then did a full recount after that at the request of the Trump Campaign.
It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
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It appears to me that a number of Republicans in Congress need a civics lesson or two.
Or perhaps you do.
I jest, mostly.
What you're going to want to look for is the Election of 1876, the Compromise of 1877, and the Electoral Count Act.
The Constitution is actually pretty vague on the whole process. Particularly, in what constitutes an official electoral slate?
It doesn't say.
So what happens when the Governor sends a signed set in, and then the Secretary of State does too?
Where is the federal jurisdiction on who is correct? Of course, there is none.
So we kick it back to the states, right
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There are major problems with our electoral system that have survived thus far on nothing but good faith.
Back when Civics were taught in High School, I remember thinking how peculiar the whole Electoral College thing is. How an Elector can become a Bad-faith Elector and disenfranchise their state's voters. Have we lasted over two centuries because of, or despite, the Electoral College?
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The only reason the system survived, is because it has, in 92% of elections, simply been a proxy for the popular vote, and the ones where it was not, were at least close.
But the system, and its overall poor design, has the capability of complete disenfranchisement.
There also exists a popular myth amount the right-wingers that the system was built to prevent demagoguery and tyranny, or what all; but it's just that- a myth.
One can read the debate that led to the elector system in th
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> Congress' responsibility is to simply count the electoral votes certified by the states and announce the winner.
And also if the State sends more than 1 set of electoral vote, to decide which one counts,
Re:Transcript of the Tweet (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Dude, cut out the fucking gaslighting.
Ted Kaczynski was just trying to bring awareness to the destruction of freedom brought on by the capitalist industrial complex.
He did this by fucking setting off bombs and killing people, so yes, I'm saying that makes him not an advocate for social change.
These fucks didn't go and protest, they fucking stormed the capitol building wearing campaign slogans.
As for the people who *were* peaceful- they obviously don't apply.
But neither does Ivanka's fucking tweet.
Alternatively: Ya, you're right. She was asking the peaceful protesters to stop attacking the US capitol.
I'm beginning to wonder if you have successfully fucking gaslit yourself.
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The thing is, the people peacefully protesting in DC were there because they wanted the election to be audited, so that it could be assured that it was fair and transparent, and so that democracy could be seen to be happening.
Are you claiming that makes them non-American or non-patriotic?
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No, they are American, and patriotic in the worst sense of the word. They are sheep following Fearless Leader, and have been fooled by his lies.
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