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KDE GUI

KDE 2.0 Release Schedule 116

Posted by Hemos from the getting-a-timetable dept.
jhittner wrote to us with more news about the release of the KDE 2.0 beta. We're currently looking at a release towards the end of this month. As well, there is a new timetable on the KDE development mailing list. Update: 03/14 01:26 by E : To be more clear - it is kdelibs 2.0 that are being frozen - KDEBase is frozen around the end of April.
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KDE 2.0 Release Schedule More

KDE 2.0 Release Schedule

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  • Re:KDE 2.0 looks gorgeous (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    > the end of the GNOME/KDE struggle

    I disagree. Personnaly, I almost never use Gnome, that I find too unstable. But Gnome will survive KDE2, and both desktop environment will continue to coexist for a long while. I think that, in the end, both project will more or less merge -or at least become further and further compatible; as both team are reinforcing collaboration.

    And for Konqueror... Yes, I wait for it too, to throw away this bloated Netscape I rely on for Java/Javascript web pages.

  • You have to admit that Linux is still the impetus for all of this change ... Sure my SPARCstation desktop will look much prettier when KDE2 is out but my Linux workstation is getting closer to being as stable as a SPARC running Solaris and 10x more functional (in ways).
  • It would be nice if the KDE folks could issue a statement on whether GPL'd stuff could be linked to Qt2, maybe even contact the FSF's lawyers and get their opinions. There may be some legit issues here, or at least legit questions, and it would be nice to clear the air.

    And I had hoped the Qt licensing troubles would be gone with the QPL. Sigh . . .
  • Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it. Apparently Debian finds that the QPL conflicts with the GPL because the requirement in the QPL that modifications be distributed "in a form that is separate from the Software, such as patches" supposedly stomps on the GPL's requirement that no additional restrictions other than the ones the GPL imposes may be applied to GPL'd software--or something like that. You can find out the full scoop in the archives of the debian-legal mailing list. It looks like KDE's not *quite* out of the woods yet.

  • > While I applaud the efforts of both the KDE and Gnome communities
    >neither of them are actually resulting in a commercial grade UI
    >(Windows is not a commercial grade UI either IMO). Its a fantastic
    >effort to make the interface more usable but as Jakob Nielsen said on
    >Slashdot these are not revolutionary steps but the same old things
    >again.

    Sigh. When will you UI freaks realize we don't *CARE* what Jakob Nielsen you think? You people have pretty much given UI design a bad name over the years with the bloated and useless crap (take a look at most WWW pages floating around today for an example of this nonsense that comes from the UI crowd). Small wonder most Slashdot users want nothing to do with you guys.
  • a) Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E work just fine on KDE, so you should at least try to find an example that actually is related to the real world.

    b) All standard global keybindings in KDE are configurable, and can be made into packages. So, if you feel KDE keybindings are bad, change them, put your config file in the web somewhere, with a ten line explanation on how to install it, and call it a day.

  • When beating the KDE-vs-GNOME dead horse, there's something very important to keep in mind here. While most of us here are capable of switching between the two desktop environments, we are the Linux community. Most of the casual users being targeted here aren't part of the community, they're customers of the Linux industry.

    Take a look at the commercial distributions and you'll find a nearly unanimous standardization on KDE - with RedHat being the obvious exception, of course, and Corel leading the charge.

    Like it or not, while the Linux community is doing the parallel development thing, in the Linux industry, the race is pretty much over.

    Yeah, I know about Eazel. Judging by the amount of hype they've generated, all I can say about them is: show me the code.



    --
  • it literally costs 2X the Microsoft solution if we want to use KDE (the licensing of the Qt libs is more than twice the cost of W2K + Visual C++ pro).

    But QT is cross-platform. It can't be emphasized enough. If you link your program against QT, you'll be able to compile it on Windoze 95/98/NT/2000/or whatever the flavour of the month is, as well as any flavour of Unix and (I believe) Mac. Just think of how much development time and money it saves! Besides, QT2.0 has lots of features that MFC does not support, like themes for instance. Have you seen KDE 2.0 screenshots? It's an eyecandy.

    ___

  • jhittner wrote to us with more news about the release of the KDE 2.0 beta. We're currently looking at a release towards the end of this month. As well, there is a new timetable on the KDE development mailing list. Update: 03/14 01:26 by E: To be more clear - it is kdelibs 2.0 that are being frozen - KDEBase is frozen around the end of April.

    No KDE beta is scheduled to be released. KDE is still in pre alpha stage. Kdelibs 2.0 are not being frozen, the binary interface to kdelibs is scheduled to be frozen at the end of this month. (Personally I think it's unrealistically optimistic). The kdelibs implementation has not been frozen nor has a freeze of kdelibs in general been scheduled. For instance things like the khtml implementation are in full speed development at the moment, and will continue to be developed after the kdelibs interface freeze due at the end of this month.

    Basically nothing that has been reported is correct.
  • "Many developers" simply don't know C++ and this is precisely why they are supporting Gnome.
    Once you try C++ GUI approach it is hard to justify going back to old C days ..
  • An alien interface with unknown conventions WILL prevent new users from using Linux

    This is a phrase that I've heard way too often. The fact is that most of the world as yet to experience any desktop. So limiting functionality in an attempt to conform to some existing interface seems a waste of energy.

    One of my Personal Favorite Things(tm) about using X as an interface is the customization and choice that I have. I have (and use) several different window managers and three desktop environments. Each of these has multiple themes, and each allows me to customize behaivour (to some extent). I would hate to see any of this freedom lost.

    I'm hoping that both the KDE and GNOME projects find lots of success, and that they become more flexible as they evolve. I think that we are seeing this now and that it will continue, thanks to an open development process that allows people to add the little quirks that make a desktop environment more useful to them.

    The one element that these projects should try hard to maintain is consistency in interface. Hopefully KDE and GNOME can even find some common points here. The only thing that will hold the free desktops back is if users have to learn different interfaces for each application they want to run.
  • or instance, having used BeOS at home for a while, I find that the ability to right-click on a window tab and have that window go to the bottom of the z-order is an *invaluable* behaviour. When I have several different windows open, that ability becomes incredibly useful to toggle between them without resorting to pull-down or context menus. However, not only do KDE nor GNOME provide that, but they don't offer a mechanism for me to specify that action.

    Of course they do, or at least KDE does. Go into K control Panel. It even lets you choose which mouse button. On my computers with three buttons, I have it configured for the middle button. For my laptop with two buttons, I have it configured for the right button. I really miss this when I am in windows, like I am stuck with at work right now.

  • How far did you say a quantum leap was?
  • set RANT 1
    While I couldn't agree more in general with your sentiment I find it annoying that you feel you have to bash Windows when it obviously is a commercial grade UI. I run KDE at home and Gnome at work and while they both have their strengths and weaknesses they both pale in comparison to the current version of Windows (2000 pro) that I use!
    This is really annoying, because I love linux, I love the culture and I admire the ideology and I worship the hackers. In my semi-experienced opinion the Linux kernel, development tools and networking daemons rock but X fundamentally sucks. You can't get around this. I know MS had to hack NT to get to be able to display windows remotely but the reason they had not implemented this in the first place was because 9they knew 9% of people will never use this functionality. It is so obvious a bunch of non-UI savvy hackers wrote the original X that we are stuck with.
    The X protocol, what a joke. Cut 'n paste sucks on X. Drag 'n drop is non-existant. Gnome, KDE, their respective Panels and the various Window Managers don't talk to eack other. Kfm is rubbish, gmc is not much better. Both compared to MS explorer are pathetic. Netscape Communicator is painful to use after the sweet clean lines of Ie5 and Outlook Express. I know this is not the responsibility of either the KDE or Gnome crews but how on earth is Mozilla going be of any use if it is gtk+ based. It can't be is the short and honest answer. I can't even use ctrl-left arrow and ctrl-right arrow to go forwards and backwards word by word while i type this! Things have improved since I first used Slackware but we have to do something about X. Too closed. I just downloaded XFree86 4.0 which has been in development since 1998 and it didn't even pick up my old settings. How crap is that. I had to run that awful xf86config program which is a complete joke, as is xvidtune.
    set RANT 0
    I could go on but I'm getting too depressed :( Sorry to all the developers I insulted out there but a groovy computing environment not archaic monoliths must prevail.
  • As are all other *nixes that run KDE,Gnome and
    Xfree.

  • You have have a valid point. Much of the stuff I use in my day to day routine works well and I don't think about it...stuff like Emacs, egcs, the 2.2xx kernel, nethack, etc... And I also agree with you when you say that we tend to focus on what doesn't work and not all of the great stuff that does.

    Maybe we are dealing more with how we define the word beta. I don't think that most beta software is bad.. in fact some beta software is better then the release software we see in some stores. So I'm not really saying that in a bad way.

    For example, I use KDE 1.1 and it works very well for me, but I still think it's more beta quality than release quality. I have core dumps on a regular basis (kaudioserver is a repeat offender), I can blow kfm up in a matter of minutes by attempting to move a large number of files via drag and drop. I can bring my entire X session to it's knees and have to ctrl-alt-+ to kill it just by trying to attach a file in kmail...the list goes on and on. Release quality software should be better.

    Are these showstoppers for me? No.. I have learned what makes it blow up (in most cases) and I don't do it. This is not a major problem for me but it's not why I use Linux. This is more a "Microsoft taught" way to use software. You learn what to avoid and the software becomes "better." I don't expect any software to be perfect, but I really would like to see the Linux community shoot for better than just stable.

    I realize there is a newer release of KDE which may or may not fix some of these problems, but that too seems like the ol MS way of releasing broken stuff then putting out patch after patch. Most of the time I dont' have the time or energy to upgrade every package and the libs and the dev stuf...etc...it's a pain. I want to get a realease version that works and use it until something new comes out with features I need. However when I try something that is clearly marked as beta software, then I would expect little problems and I would expect to have to upgrade when the fixes are released. That is the nature of beta software VS release software.

    Sheesh... I'm rambling on and on here...don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining or bitchin, I'm merely voicing a little frustration.
  • Great! YAWC (Yet Another Windows Clone). When are we going to get a desktop for Linux that doesn't appear to have come from the Microsoft school of GUI design?
    Hmmm....how is it that Microsoft came about to invent the GUI? Is it like all the other "inventions" they claim to have. You have been seriously misguided. When I first used Win95 I thought, wow OS/2! I personally feel that Win95 have borrowed a lot of good ideas from their predecessors like OS/2 and NeXTStep. In turn these GUIs have a lot of borrowed ideas from their predecessors (early developers who first looked at twm must have been awed by its looks and feel!). On the PC, during the DOS days there were a number of WIMP based GUIs which weren't by Microsoft (I know it's hard to believe;)). Remember DESQView from Quarterdeck, or GEM from Digital Research? DESQView was in my opinion much more superior to DOS+Win31, but unfortunately even in those days if you're not Microsoft you lose.
  • Quite true. It's nice to see the Gnome project putting some effort in to UI. There is a disturbing trend in the KDE project to use Windows keybindings instead of standard unix bindings. This is unfortunate for two reasons, first the Windows keybindings tend to penalize proficient typists, its far easier to do Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E from the home row than Home and End, for example. Second it leads to inconsistency of interface, which is a big no-no. I know the KDE people are trying to create K versions of every unix program in existence, but until this happens the users will be confused when one program behaves in the unix style and another behaves in the Windows style.

    A lot of effort is being put into developing good code, it would be nice if some effort where put into investigating HCI literature and putting some of these principles to practice. I don't mean a radical departure from the WIMP interface, just a refinement.
    I'm not saying Gnome and KDE are horrible, in fact I use KDE extensively on my home computer. I'm just saying that a little effort spent thinking about the UI (copying existing UIs where they are good and using different solutions when they are better) could make a very make the Linux desktop a thing of beauty.
  • I've been using Linux for about 5 years now. I used to be excited when version 0.3 of NewFangledThingie was released. I'd go get it, install it, and most likely it would work. Now there are more options and dependencies. I am growing a bit weary of downloading something only to find that I must upgrade several other pieces, and finally, when I think I've got everything I need, it doesn't work.
  • Oh yes, finishing ORBit. If I recall correctly, ORBit is not used in KDE because it simply doesn't ( or didn't at that time ) support things that were needed. So it would be a "bit" more that just finishing the C++ bindings.
    As for DCOP being crap ... I'm actually neither CORBA nor DCOP expert, I just know what CORBA is and I've read both the ORBit and DCOP docs. The only real difference I mentioned was that there's actually no real difference between these two, maybe just DCOP being faster. Remote Procedure Call *shrug*.
    NIH ... hey, that doesn't belong here, that's GNOME related.

  • The KDE 1.x.x series did use CORBA but KDE 2.x.x will not. The KDE team has replaced it with KDE Parts, which is not CORBA. If you want a object oriented desktop then gnome is better with true CORBA and bonobo objects, but none of that stuff should really matter to a regular user.


    No, actually- the KDE2.x series *was* based on CORBA, and you're right that it's been replaced- but they replaced it with DCOP, not KParts. KParts is the replacement for the KOM/OpenParts mess that they used to have- and the KParts stuff works. Fast as hell, too.

    -Chris
  • "
    kdelibs frozen March 30
    documentation complete April 15
    kdebase frozen April 21
    translations complete April 30
    "
    Pardon the snippage. Allowing for things that will most certainly get delayed for one reason or another...

    Speculation: Summer?
  • >When are we going to get a desktop for Linux that doesn't appear to have come from the Microsoft school of GUI design?

    as soon as you start such a project.

    btw: whats wrong with the Windows GUI? Guess it's a good GUI (I don't say it's pefect).

    regards,
    Joel
    aka J-freak
  • Wow! The next distro I install will have:
    -Linux 2.4
    -XFree86 4.0
    -KDE 2.0
    -(gnome 1.2?)

    That's a hell of a quantum leap. This is gonna do a lot of good to OSS

  • This is great news. I've been looking forward to KDE2 for a long time. Any good open source software is great. Advancements in open source GUI even better.

    Combine this news with that increased co-operation between Gnome and KDE developers as well as cross-platform standards compliance like CORBA etc. and the future of the Linux desktop is looking cool.


    -----
    "I will be as a fly on the wall... I shall slip amongst them like a great ... invisible ... THING ... !"

  • Could you please tell me why there has to be a war between KDE and GNOME any more than there is between BASH and CSH, or Blackbox and IceWM? Why won't it end up that the people who like one use it, and those who like the other use it? With enough compatibility between the libraries of the two that its not a problem to port programs between them. Especially if the UI is seperated from the program code itself.

    Personally, I don't like KDE. I don't care if its better looking, the interface feels too much like Win98's for my taste. At least, the versions I've used did. I don't like the single click or the browser integration, and from what I could tell, KDE didn't let you turn those off any more than Windows did.

    I do realize, however, that there are people who like KDE. Go ahead and use it. It just means better software for everyone.


    -RickHunter
    --"We are gray. We stand between the candle and the star."
    --Gray council, Babylon 5.
  • Sheesh, I wonder how I've been running a business with "whereware" and "wishware" for the last four years? I must be dreaming about replying to your post with my "whereware" browser, huh?
  • I just love the concept of calling the KDE unstable development version should be called KRASH.
  • What were you using your Windows box for? Anecdotally I've found Windows desktops crash more often than Unix desktops.

    The most important issue is servers running important apps that run huge operations - your Win 95 box may not have crashed recently, but are you planning to use it to run a business on/print 200,000 paychecks an hour on/serve up a million ecommerce customers a day on, etc etc.

    Yes, we all use desktop machines and they have their pros and cons - when it comes to mission critical, it's got to be Unix, as400 etc.
  • Even in the free software arena, competition is good - KDE and Gnome may not be pushed by shareholders to improve the product, but whatever their motivations, competition occurs and we get better products,as per the more 'standard' business models out there.
  • hi, from the troll page the qt lib license is $1550.00 for one developer.

    from pricewatch.com, W2K pro is $138.00 and Visual C++ pro is $250.00

    so, unfortunately, i was way off. the situation is worse than i said! I can set up a developer with a legal copy of W2K and VC++ Pro for $388 or pay trolltech $1550 for a set of libraries.

    bummer. it got worse.
  • yes, i was thinking i might be able to pursuade them to open the source and obviate the need for the license, but it (honestly) would have to be reviewed by our parent company and our lawyers...and that's expensive, too -- maybe more expensive than the trolltech qt libraries in the first place.

    plus, the code is literally useless for anyone without our hardware or the proprietary code from the third parties (which we could never release).

    with the w2k/vc++ option, we don't have to release the useless (to anyone else) code, it's almost 1/4th the price, the phb's are happy cuz they chose MS, no legal review, arrrrghhh.

    i can tell i'm screwed. by this time next year, i bet we'll be switching to mshaft, and there won't be a thing i can do about it.

    kde/qt just won't acknowedge how much they are hurting small tech companies. we don't want to go mshaft, but we just don't have any choice. we have masses of c++ code that would be kind of a bear to move to gtk. it's easier to sell phb's on kde than gnome. the programmers want gui builders and c++, and they're (increasingly) tired of linux's promises.

    of course, i'll never stop fighting...but if they throw a fat dual pIII compaq on my desk with 1/2 gb. of ram, w2k, and vc++, i won't really have much choice but to just get on with it.
  • look, i'll apologize up front for the people who get angry, but i have to ask:

    has there been any movement, any at all, toward a free "qt" replacement? something like "gt" or whatever?

    C++ needs to be available for Linux. I like Gtk and gnome, and Vdk/VdkBuilder, but I think KDE is better.

    my employer writes proprietary s/w for our custom/low volume hardware sales. we only have a few installations, and the code doesn't run anywhere else. Some of our linked code is completely proprietary anyway. We can't release the source.

    it literally costs 2X the Microsoft solution if we want to use KDE (the licensing of the Qt libs is more than twice the cost of W2K + Visual C++ pro).

    If something has changed at TrollTech, I apologize for posting this. But it used to be something like $1200 per developer.

    Please post some news on this if you know of any progress in this area. From my perspective, every day qt remains non-free is another day forward for Microsoft.

    Thx,
    S.D.
  • yeah, i hear you. but the powers-that-be already want cheap pc's. so cross platform fades away.

    as far as getting what we pay for, there is just no way for me to write "$1200 per developer" on a p.o. and get way with it. it won't happen.

    why? cuz we have several win2k/vc++ enthusiasts here, who want us to skip even trying linux. they would just laugh at the cross platform/eye candy argument. it would get torn to nothing in our meetings.

    seriously, the OOD state of linux is not holding up very well. and it's the direct fault of trolltech, qt, and even kde for failing to acknowledge how many opportunities are lost to linux because of their licensing issues.

    i can hardly beleive the situation is as bad as it is. an os, developed and given away for free, but the (arguably) best tools and desktop for it are held hostage by a small company that charges more than twice that of Microsoft for a lesser product.

    with Microsoft, you get a complete OS, popular leading compilation/debugging that many developers already know, a plethora of VC++ books, etc. your end result runs on 90% of the desktops, and PHB's like it.

    with qt, i'm eventually lost. there's nothing i can do for linux except cross my fingers and hope something develops (sorry) before MS takes everything. we lost a couple more open servers here to MS with the W2K rollout in the last week.

    it's like ballmer says: they are just taking their time and picking away at unix. if it keeps happening, linux will fall too, once MS controls the big servers.

    without an MFC-like OOD environment to develop in, that is a higher value than MSHAFT, we're screwed. trolltech is really hurting linux. i write this msg. everytime i see a qt or kde post, but no one listens.

    it's just like mshaft, no one listens. :-(
  • KDE 2.0, Gnome 2.0, XFree86 4.0, the 2.4 kernel... Lot's of good stuff happening in relativly short order. Linux is becoming poised for great things.
  • >Great! YAWC (Yet Another Windows Clone). When are >we going to get a desktop for Linux that doesn't >appear to have come from the Microsoft school of >GUI design? I mean come on, it's nice to have a >GUI and all that rather than using console-based >tools with obscure command-line parameters, but >what does KDE offer that my Win2K box doesn't?

    What KDE does offer?

    a) it is *FREE* software (unlike w2k)
    b) you can COMPLETELY *customize* your desktop environment (unlike w2k)
    c) it is stable :-)

  • It's my belief that KDE 2.0 has great potential to become the ultimate desktop environment on UN*X. This is due to the fact that it takes KDE's traditional strengths, and expands upon them with some GNOME-like wizardry and delicious eye-candy.

    First, let's take a look at what KDE is already doing right. The KDE apps are elegant, simple, and extremely well-designed. KDE has been responsible for many non-hacker people I know switching to and staying with Linux. Unfortunately, the ease of use and superiority of design that were present in KDE 1.x came at the expense of GNOME's extreme customizability.

    From what I've seen in Krash, it appears that the KDE team is working on this. K should now be themeable down to the widget level, and with a considerably more user-friendly theming interface than GNOME. Anyone for a real KDE aqua theme?

    Of course, I'm aware that with Eazel, Nautilus, etc. GNOME is working from the other end to bring more ease of use to the already ultra-versatile platform they've built, but from all indications K will deliver the best of both words several months before GNOME will.
  • You should REALLY try it out. Sorry to post this in a KDE discussion, but it just confuses me as to why people still think Gnome is unstable, the UNSTABLE releases havn't crashed once on me in Months. No exageration. Congrats to KDE, I'm looking forward to trying out the beta.

    ---
    Xiphoid Process Records - http://xiphoidprocess.com
    San Francisco based electronic music.
  • Wishware my ass. Wishware is a Window$ product with up to eight virual desktops so you dont have to keep max-minimizing windows do do anything. A GUI that is not tied to the kernel so the GUI crashes the whole system. One with a choice of GUI's. Or the choice not to have a GUI. One with Open Source drivers that can be debugged so they don't crash...errr destabilize the system. Or be proved not to be buggy and the system itself is inherently unstable. With open source libraries instead of a mess of proprietary DLL's that disable each other's programs. One with a license that gives you rights instead of explaining you have none. One that cames with a free office suite. One that comes with a multitude of programming tools. Yeah, wish in one hand and defecate in the other, see which fills up first.......

    "If I have seen further than other men it is because I have stood ont the shoulders of giants."
    -Isaac Newton

    "If I have made more money than other men it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants while my my legal team imprisoned and castrated them."
    -William Henry the Third
  • I agree that there are lot's of good things happening for the OSS movement, but I think convergence is not quite the word that I would use. Luckily we have a couple of great development teams that are putting tremendous effort into being able to offer quality products for our community. But think about what community we are. We read Slashdot, "News for Nerds". Every one of us is some kind of advanced user, or power user who doesn't mind knowing how the system is working or how the system can be altered. But if Linux and the OSS community really wants to hit the desktop.

    GNOME, KDE, Eazel, HelixCode, Enlightenment, WindowMaker, FVWM etc.. ....... What do I tell my mother when she asks me which programs to use, or how to use them. It is not self evident, and there are quite a few differences between the different sets. My actual favorite is to use a mixture of all of them, but the average user can't handle those kind of choices. GNOME has a great model, KDE is more intuitive, and hopefully Eazel will create the desktop that will add that feature to GNOME. I'm sorry to say, and I never thought I would, but I think it is time for some real convergence and interoperability between the .

    IMHO

  • KDE2 is no more based on CORBA, but is still compatible with it. The KDE team has devised with DCOP a lighter way to obtain the same things, in order to have a faster desktop. When CORBA is needed, a tiny daemon bridge is activated that transparently make it. I think this could slow down if you use KDE essentially for non-KDE CORBA applications, in which case you should consider using Gnome. For all KApplications, things will instead be speed up.
  • It seems you're focusing on the beta-software you've tried. You're forgetting all the stable software you use, sometimes even without knowing it. Nearly all things in any linux distro are open source, and stable (and Debian is only open source).

    I disagree with "most of it is barely beta quality". It's just that we're more loikely to notice whan something don't work that when it works.

  • KDE may resemble Windows "out of the box" but it is extremely configurable. Don't like the conventional scrollbar? Write your own, plug it in, and behold: all the KDE apps are using your scrollbar. Check out the screenshots at www.mosfet.org [mosfet.org].

    I share your disappointment with Mozilla. But you should ask yourself why is it "whereware" (cute term)? My answer: the developers don't know where to stop. (The commercial predecessor has the same problem.) It's got a zillion features which will never all get finished and which nobody will have time to learn. Which is one reason I'm excited by the simple, elegant KDE web browser.

    Why run KDE instead of Win2K? For the end user, perhaps there isn't a lot of incentive -- now. But developers are starting to be disillusioned with that platform. The API is weird, undocumented, full of backward-compatible hacks, and much too big. Worst of all, it's owned by a bunch of bit-twiddlers who think it's OK to make everything you know totally obsolete every other year.

    Now in the other corner we have an interesting triad: the Linux Kernel, the Qt library, and the KDE GUI. All three are owned by people who know the importance of an elegant, stable API. Some developers are going to write for this platform just for the pleasure of working in a sane environment!

    Any competitor to Windows has to break out of the standard double-bind: nobody uses the platform because there aren't any apps, and there aren't any apps because nobody uses the platform. KDE has a good chance of breaking the circle.

  • Wishware (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Great! YAWC (Yet Another Windows Clone). When are we going to get a desktop for Linux that doesn't appear to have come from the Microsoft school of GUI design? I mean come on, it's nice to have a GUI and all that rather than using console-based tools with obscure command-line parameters, but what does KDE offer that my Win2K box doesn't?

    I think that the state of play for Linux applications is in a sorry way. There seem to be two kinds of applications - the first being "whereware", as in "where the hell is the software" or "where's the final version". Let's face it, Mozilla falls into this catagory. Then there is "wishware" as in "I wish it did this" or "I wish it had feature X which equivalent Windows/Mac software did". This is where KDE is at IMHO. It seems the KDE team are stuck in the Windows GUI paradigm and are just trying to emulate rather than innovate. It is attitudes like this which are holding back the true success of Linux in the Microsoft market and preventing the only current OS of any worth from being accepted by the unwashed masses.

    To the KDE team: please, less wishware, more software. Thank you.

  • Re:Wishware (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Yes, you're right! No more copying Windows ergonomy (which is slightly the same as all GUI ergonomy)! Let's INNOVATING!

    First, all validations ought to be made with the space bar, 'cause it's large, not the enter key, too small for a repeated use. On the mouse, it's the right button which is the most appropriated, the left will be for lauching on-line help.

    Then, all menubars and toolbars must be floating, like on Macs, and vertical, as it will save more room for our documents (nearly ever vertically oriented).

    The taskbar should be forgotten and replaced by a window showing every application running as icons.

    Drag&Drop must be abandoned, and will only be reconsidered if we didn't find anything more practical.

    Text must be read alternatively left to right then right to left, as it require less eyes movements.

    Computer must be renamed as Camenber.

    Lots of other more or less stupid things can be found. Instead of complaining because a same solution as been adopted both by MS's GUI and other Desktop Environment, try to search alternatives, verify in what they can be more practical than existing one, and propose them if they deserve it. Saying "code less untill you've found another way to invent the wheel" isn't a good method.

    Also, don't forget that people love to have things that behave as usual, as their previous experience stay worthy. Just an example: VI ergonomy is a real disaster, huh? It's a great editor for those who know how to handle it, but a nightmare for a beginner. One could think that with the widespread of the mouse, VI will be abandonned, right? No. It isn't. There was much people on the KDevelop forum wanting a VI-style editor support in this IDE. Using VI for GUI programming...

    Linux is beginning to spread outside of the nerdworld thanks to KDE (mainly) and Gnome. What's the default desktop for Corel Linux, clearly aimed at newbies? KDE. Not TWM. KDE.

    > It is attitudes like this which are holding back the true success of Linux

    False. An alien interface with unknown conventions WILL prevent new users from using Linux. I've tried Blender once, and have been really disoriented by it's ergonomy. Not that's a bad ergo, just that it wasn't using much things I already know. A new ergo, better or worse, force users to swith paradigm. It demands a great work of relearning, and, if nerds and geeks happily do it, most end-users will never. The familiar looking of KDE will appeal them, not an alien desktop with strange (for them) behavior.

  • The HelixCode chaps are writing something called Evolution [helixcode.com] which may go some way to solving your particular problems. From a look'n'feel point of view, it seems to be heavily inspired by Outlook 2000, and from reading the brief description at the above URL, it seems as though will have similar functionality. It's not clear it will support the (admittedly good) calendar/scheduling functionality as Outlook 2000, but I would guess that couldn't be too far away.

    Ofcourse, this is for Gnome, rather than KDE, but i'm sure that chunks of it will be reusable by the KDE developers, or, at least, it should provide the push to get similar functionality under KDE (or is it already there?).

    ...j
  • Second, the alternative to C++ for system programming is C, which is from the 1960's, even earlier.

    Presumably you mean that its philosophy comes from the '60's, not that the language itself comes from the '60's, given that Dennis Ritchie indicates that this version of the original B Reference Manual [bell-labs.com] is dated 1972, and C is a descendant of B, so C is from the '70's.

  • You only think it is a Windows Clone because you came from windows. If you came from CDE, you would think it was a CDE clone.

    I think they've done a good job.


    -- Thrakkerzog
  • Well, C++ was already old technology by the time it was "invented" in the 1980's. The lack of runtime safety, dependence on storage layouts, and static approach to OOP it represents is more characteristic of the languages of the 1960's and 1970's. By the 1980's, dynamic OOP was already widely available.
  • Kdelibs must be frozen to the point that they will not become binary incompatible again for a long time, at least a year or more. However, we do not want to preclude the possibility of making important fixes and additions after the release. For this possibility to exist, we must add private member pointers to each class,

    This is one of the reasons why C++ is such a poor choice for implementing toolkits and other large libraries. Worse yet, if you break binary compatibility, most likely, you'll get memory corruption, often in some unrelated piece of code. The workaround that the KDE folks are taking, adding private member pointers, is also pretty cumbersome (I find that there are better approaches).

    Altogether, I find this pretty depressing. We are in the year 2000, and people are still writing software and using tools like it's the 1970's.

  • Out of curiousity, does anyone know whether Debian plans to add KDE 2 to its mainline package lineup, as the QPL, unlike the Qt Free license, meets the DFSG?
  • I hope GNOME doesn't go away... the GNOME/KDE interaction has produced some good, and is bound to lead to more benefits.

    GNOME/KDE collaboration has led to the development of a Window Manager standards (no more wierd WM-specific hints making incompatibilities all over the place).

    There is also now a .desktop file standard, Hopefully leading to easier packaging of applications.

    There's probably more, that I can't think of/don't know about...

  • Well, take the same group, and imagine them talking about which Office suite they wanted to use..............Ayup

    I'm not sure what you're trying to get at in your post. I mean, "way to go" to the KDE team and all, but what Microsoft Office user in their right mind would really want to give it up to use KOffice?

    I have a feeling that there's some corporate version of Slashdot out there, and the guys in your company are posting about this one IT guy who wants to ram his favorite platform (plus ideology) down their throats.

    I've gotta admit, if I manage to find that corporate Slashdot, I'll be moderating that guy's post up.

    Cheers,
    ZicoKnows@hotmail.com

  • Take a look at the commercial distributions and you'll find a nearly unanimous standardization on KDE - with RedHat being the obvious exception, of course, and Corel leading the charge.

    I don't quite see this "unanimous standardization" that you are referring to. Redhat [redhat.com] and TurboLinux [turbolinux.com] both offer Gnome as the default desktop. Mandrake [linux-mandrake.com], OpenLinux [calderasystems.com], and Corel Linux [corel.com] offer KDE as the default. Most distributions offer both as desktop choices.

    Like it or not, while the Linux community is doing the parallel development thing, in the Linux industry, the race is pretty much over.

    Far from it. I can name 3 companies devoting many manhours and cash to Gnome development: RHAD Labs [redhat.com], Eazel [eazel.com], and Helix Code [helixcode.com]. Companies such as MandrakeSoft [mandrakesoft.com] and Corel [corel.com] are funding KDE development. The race, if anything, is just beginning to get interesting...

    Yeah, I know about Eazel. Judging by the amount of hype they've generated, all I can say about them is: show me the code.

    okay:

    here is some of it [gnome.org].
    ----


  • This is a pretty ignorant statement. First of all, gnome has C++ bindings and there are a number of gnome hackers that use C++ as their primary language. Secondly, it isn't so much the language, but rather the environment and libraries that the developers in the gnome camp prefer.
    ----
  • I predict KDE 2 will probably signal the beginning of the end of the GNOME/KDE struggle - its been fun, but KDE appears to be keeping one generation ahead, and is certainly better looking.

    Your prediction will most certainly fail. Watch and see. Perhaps what you are overlooking is that different users prefer different things. I will grant you that KDE is more advanced than Gnome in some areas, primarly in the number of applications they have available. However, many developers prefer hacking in the Gnome environment much better than that KDE environment. And Gnome is doing things now that KDE can't do or hasn't yet. Both environments have their strengths. I can also think of at least 3 companies that are putting extensive amounts of money and manhours into improving Gnome (RHAD Labs [redhat.com], Eazel [eazel.com], and Helix Code [helixcode.com]). These companies aren't going to just drop their work on Gnome once KDE 2 comes out. You also say that KDE "looks" better. Let me remind you that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally find KDE to be hideous compared to Gnome. This is not a bash-KDE comment. Honestly, I love what KDE is doing. I keep up with the KDE development news, love looking at new screenshots, reading about KOffice and other such projects, and wish them all the luck. And I think the competition between Gnome and KDE is healthy. Neither community is going away anytime soon. I can assure you of that.
    ----

  • Will you gives specific examples of what you'd like to see. What would the ideal interface look like?
    ----
  • How far did you say a quantum leap was?

    It's not how far, it's how radical. It describes 'leaping' to a different point, without traversing the intervening space; really it's more acurately described by 'teleportation' :-)
    I think in this case the metaphor is appropriate, even for pendantics.

    Chris
  • How else do you explain the update coming 6 hours before the initial posting. What's that? Conflicting timestamps? Damn. I really wanted that time machine! Oh well...

    Eric

  • I'm going to take issues with (b).

    Visually, I mostly agree. The desktop is much more visually customizable than, say, Windows. I can configure window bars, toolbars, buttons, text, etc.

    However, there are still gaps. Perhaps I want my GNOME or KDE "bar" to look less like the Windows Start bar and more like, say, BeOS' Deskbar. Can I do that? Nope. So it's not quite reached the point of true customizability.

    Why is that? Because neither KDE nor GNOME support the ability to customize *behaviour,* which would be required for me to have something resembling a BeOS Deskbar. Looks are one thing, but when it comes down to it neither KDE nor GNOME really provide for action customization.

    For instance, having used BeOS at home for a while, I find that the ability to right-click on a window tab and have that window go to the bottom of the z-order is an *invaluable* behaviour. When I have several different windows open, that ability becomes incredibly useful to toggle between them without resorting to pull-down or context menus. However, not only do KDE nor GNOME provide that, but they don't offer a mechanism for me to specify that action.

    Further, one of the other nice features is that I can drag the window tab around in BeOS to organize my windows logically. Many of the themes for E, KDE, and GNOME feature similar window "tabs" (as opposed to a straight bar, like Windows or the Mac). I would like to be able to program that dragging behaviour for a theme that has a tabbed window - but again, neither KDE or GNOME provide that.

    Granted, neither BeOS nor Windows provide much in the way of user customization for either visual or behavioural aspects, but the point is that the Linux GUIs still have a long way to go before you can honestly say that they are "COMPLETELY *customize*"-able.

  • As of today, Debian does not intend to include KDE2+Qt2. Before they will, Qt will either have to be released under the LGPL or all of KDE2 will have to be released under a non-GPL license. I don't foresee either scenario.

    I personally think that a few members of Debian are deliberately blocking KDE2. They do this through intentional misinterpretations of the GPL and outright FUD. The last I heard, one of them was trying to find someone willing to sue KDE and get a restraining order so that it couldn't be distributed with ANY distribution.

    Although they have myriad reasons for not including KDE2, all of those reasons are based upon non-existance or misapplied laws, or extremely convoluted interpretations of the GPL. In one particularly bizarre instance, a Debian developer accused Troll Tech of GPL violations because KDE linked to it!

    There is nothing stopping Debian from including KDE2, but so long as Debian has to please 600 developers before anything can get done, it won't happen.
  • Troll Tech is taking a most sensible approach to licensing. Open Source for open source developers and Proprietary for proprietary developers. What could be simpler? It's certainly a better incentive to switch to open source development than RMS' exhortation not to use the LGPL.

    Qt Pro is more than twice W2K+VCPPPro? Let me know where you're buying your Microsoft products at, because I can't get them for that price. Yes, it's more expensive, but don't exaggerate.

    But if I understand your situation, I see an easy way out of it. I am under the impression that you are in the hardware sales business, but have some proprietary software of your own to support it. That software in turn links to other proprietary code. Since software is not your primary business, open source your OWN code, make sure that only that code links with Qt, and you're smooth sailing. The other proprietary code doesn't come into play if it doesn't link with Qt, since the QPL (like any license) is nonbinding on third parties.
  • It would be nice if the KDE folks could issue a statement on whether GPL'd stuff could be linked to Qt2

    But the problem is, there's absolutely no reason to do this than to appease a few Debian developers. Of course it can be linked! This isn't a case of you deriving from GPLd code in order to link to Qt, which may be problematic. The original GPLd code itself already links to Qt.

    To summarize, the GPL imposes no restrictions upon the original author, who chose to link with QT. And Qt is included with every major distribution including Debian, and the GPL makes exceptions for code included with the OS. Furthermore, the source code for Qt is included with every major distribution, including Debian. Finally, you have implicit permission to link KDE to Qt by the very fact that it already does so. In fact, I would consider the include statements to be more on the order of explicit permissions.
  • I fail to see what KDE has to do with Windows. I haven't used Windows for a long time, but as I recall, the only thing Windows did UI-wise was put a frame around a window and slap a task bar on the bottom of the screen. Replace the task bar with the Gnome panel, KDE panel, Wharf, Dock or IconBox, and you still have essentially the same thing. Yet this criticism is ALWAYS leveled at KDE and never at Gnome, WindowMaker or Enlightenment.

    In terms of look and feel, there is no comparison between Windows and KDE2 beyond the use of windows, icons and mice.
  • I'll agree with everything you say. I probably would have said the same thing myself, but chose to limit my post.

    Having been involved in that recent debian-devel discussion which Andreas Pour was a member, I can tell you some of my observations regarding the small subset of Debian developers concerned with the KDE/Qt issue. (I have since left that list due to the extreme acrimony found there)

    That group is divided into three factions. The first faction wants to make sure that they do the right thing. They have heard that giving a copy of KDE to your friend is both wrong and illegal, and wish to discern the truth of that rumour. The second group sees nothing illegal about KDE and uses the text of the GPL and copyright case law to make their point. The third group wants nothing to do with KDE and resorts to ad hominem attacks, pointless irrelevancies, deliberate obfuscation, and when all else fails, personal mudslinging.
  • We are in the year 2000, and people are still writing software and using tools like it's the 1970's.

    First of all, C++ is from the 1980's. You're off by a decade. Second, the alternative to C++ for system programming is C, which is from the 1960's, even earlier.
  • It's a tragedy that you hold all these brilliant ideas inside of you. You should let them out, get heard. Join the mailinglists. Commit your changes to the CVS or send the patches that you already must have (I presume) to the core developers.

  • It sounds like you should try Sawmill. It has GNOME support, and it would be dead easy for you to bind 'lower-window' to whatever key or mouse action you want.

    As for your second request (dragging window tabs), I just posted some code to the sawmill mailing list this morning that does just that. You can get the code and a theme that uses it at:

    http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/students /jdpeters/ [uwaterloo.ca]

  • Mozilla is not even at the alpha stage yet. I would expect it to crash and burn.

    I too get frustrated with some of the software developed for Linux... most of it is barely beta quality. It seems that the Linux community is too caught up in "competing with Microsoft" instead of placing the focus on good software. But I still think the future looks bright and I love the fact that if you don't like something you can try something else or fix it yourself. These are options you don't have with the Microsoft paradigm.
    • It's nice to have a GUI and all that rather than using console-based tools with obscure command line parameters, but what does KDE offer than my Win2K box doesn't?

    KDE offers the stability of *nix, rather than the uncertainty of running on an mostly untested platform with over 65,000 confirmed bugs released by a company with a spotty track record. Other than that, nothing.

    That's enough for me.


    Cthulhu for President! [cthulhu.org]
  • To the KDE team: please, less wishware, more software. Thank you.

    That's how it goes with open source.

    You want it, you get off your backside and write it. If you can't be bothered to write it, you don't complain.

  • Or perhaps [...] you prize things like fade-away pull down menus and a colorful splash screen? If that's the case, by all means, Microsoft has everyone beat hands down!

    Surely you mean "enlightenment"? Or maybe xscreensaver.

  • Whow calm down there, the issue isn't that work hasn't been put in, it clearly has. And for that the KDE boys have my respect and admiration. Where the release lacks is in its look and feel. KDE _isn't_ a better GUI than Windows, it is more complex it has possibly more configuration options but that does not a great GUI make. The good news is that that can be retro fitted as a later project (not a theme, I'm talking about a proper GUI design).

    The real question is how can we manage that sort of project, its part code and part idea and concept. Traditionally we've only had to worry about the technology, now its time to care about the Users. And not in the Windows/Mac/KDE/Gnome way but a new approach to GUI design.

    That could really change the perception of Linux and OSS, if we have the best interaction system, truly we'll dominate the world.

  • Okay lets try it for the simple crowd. Jakob Nielsen is a GUI designer, most Websites are designed by Graphic Designers. These are mostly interested in pretty pictures and bright fluffy graphics.

    These also do not make a good UI. A GUI designer is about simplicity and ease of interaction. As a GUI designer I understand where your misunderstanding is comming from. But that is my point with KDE, technically they are brilliant, UI wise they lack certain skills. In the same way as most Web Sites are from the WILI school but on the excessive graphics and roll-overs side.

    There is a happy medium that equals an effective interface. If you want a cracking example of a good interface, look at some commercial devices (videos et al) and see how easy or hard an interface can make a product to use.
  • >I find it annoying that you feel you have to
    > bash Windows when it obviously is a commercial > grade UI.

    I understand what you mean by this, but IMO Windows is not a commercial grade GUI (some of my previous work has been in designing Air Traffic Control working positions) it contains too many "clever" touches and several inconsistent features in the major products. The use of pointless icons that are never used is widespread and the excessive use of pointless colours is just window dressing for the bored.

    The Mac is better but is far from perfect.

    Maybe its time to revolutionise the UI from the ground up ? Tech, interoperability, interaction model and look and feel.

    Trouble is this would require IMO a bigger effort than that to get Linux off the ground. Who is the next Linus ?
  • Take a look at some of the screenshots at http://www.mosfet.org/ [mosfet.org] - this release looks like it is going to be incredible, a huge improvment even over 1.x.

    I predict KDE 2 will probably signal the beginning of the end of the GNOME/KDE struggle - its been fun, but KDE appears to be keeping one generation ahead, and is certainly better looking.

    Hopefully Konquerer will be ready soon and add another option for browsing.

  • Great idea, but you must understand the corporate mindset.

    Allow me this opportunity to explain. While these maye be up and coming products, the corporate mindset will hamper them unbelievably in many ways. I know it's difficult to believe, but I've just sat through a meeting wherein there was huge debate, discussion, and shouting about scheduling programs. In the end, despite the fact that we have IN-HOUSE SOFTWARE developed for controlling our entire operation, The Sales Execs involved insisted on a seperate scheduler. Including the Managing Director of the Corporation.

    After ooo-ing and aaa-ing and also punching eachother, the agreement was - unbelievably, to buy a NEW server, put NT on it, put EXCHANGE Server on it, and use OUTLOOK 2000!!! I gaped. This after we have thousands of dollars of Sun hardware and Netscape, ACT, and other software - (all of which was tried for scheduling) - unfortunately, the Execs didn't like any of it.

    I explained that the implications of running Exchange were dire. It can be somewhat tuned into stability, but requires massive resources. Not only the kit - which will end up being no less than $10,000 I'm sure - but the software licenses (NT, Exchange, CAL's) - which will undoubtedly come to nearly as much as the kit!! maybe more !!

    How can anyone explain all this, just for 12 Sales Execs to schedule their meetings/etc etc?

    THAT is the Corporate Mindset.

    Now, what, you might be thinking, does this have to do with KDE Office? Well, take the same group, and imagine them talking about which Office suite they wanted to use..............Ayup. You get the idea.

    -C.Villopillil

  • Tried it this weekend (Score:3)

    by Arandir ( 19206 ) on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @09:09AM (#1204672) Homepage Journal
    I checkedout KDE2 and KOffice this weekend and gave it a runthrough. Very impressive.

    No, it's not stable yet, that's why they call it "pre-alpha". But it's still very nice and I can't wait for the final release.

    It looks gorgeous! Makes Gnome look like it was drawn with crayons (hey, it's a joke, stop the flames alright!) Kudos Mosfet! It also loads much, much faster than KDE1 or Gnome. Konqeror kicks butt. KOffice will make Bill Gates very nervous when it's released. He should get his resume cleaned up :-)

    In short, KDE 2.0 will be the first Free Software desktop with the quality and finish that commercial users expect (but never get).

  • KDE, Gnome etc etc etc etc etc (Score:3)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @05:09AM (#1204673) Homepage

    While I applaud the efforts of both the KDE and Gnome communities neither of them are actually resulting in a commercial grade UI (Windows is not a commercial grade UI either IMO). Its a fantastic effort to make the interface more usable but as Jakob Nielsen said on Slashdot these are not revolutionary steps but the same old things again. Most of KDE and Gnome away from the interface itself is fine, its just that last bit to the user that fails to reach the heights that the more pure technology aspects of Linux reach.

    Is it time for some Cathedral to enter the Bazaar to enforce an interaction metaphor and a look and feel onto the Linux world rather than the continuing rise of the WILI (Well I like It) school of GUI design.

    Don't get me wrong, KDE and Gnome are superb as technology projects but as UIs they fail to reach even the marsh land set by Windows let alone the heights that could be reached.

  • Re:What we can expect (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero@nOsPAm.redhat.com> on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @07:59AM (#1204674) Homepage
    If you're using Red Hat Linux or something similar, you don't even need to recompile. There are daily CVS snapshots available from
    http://people.redhat.com/bero/experimen tal [redhat.com].

  • Magellan as well (Score:3)

    by zniper ( 117838 ) on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @05:15AM (#1204675)
    The KDE 2.0 release schedule drowned out the fact that the KDE 2.0-based Lotus Notes++ clone Magellan [csis.ul.ie] was made available by rsync today. The combination of Magellan, KOffice, KDevelop and KDE2 will meet most of MY requirements, atleast. :)

  • Re:Wishware (Score:4)

    by Surak ( 18578 ) <surakNO@SPAMmailblocks.com> on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @03:20AM (#1204676) Homepage Journal
    Great! YAWC (Yet Another Windows Clone). When are we going to get a desktop for Linux that doesn't appear to have come from the Microsoft school of GUI design?


    Oh, come now. Its perfectly clear the Microsoft didn't invent the Windows GUI. Besides, KDE offers a much cleaner GUI than Windows, and offers a few things that Microsoft doesn't, like a fully configurable panel. (And don't tell me that stupid active desktop toolbar crap is even close). Besides, KDE offers stability, performance and strives toward a truly object-oriented desktop environment with things like CORBA.

    Or perhaps rather than stability and performance, you prize things like fade-away pull down menus and a colorful splash screen? If that's the case, by all means, Microsoft has everyone beat hands down! I give up!

    KDE is not wishware ... it offers a fully-functional desktop on top of Linux RIGHT NOW. You people who whine and complain about what KDE doesn't have should stop your pissing and moaning and BE GRATEFUL that KDE brings at least 90% of the useability and functionality of the Windows/Mac/whatever desktop right on Linux. \

    And KDE 2.0 will be better than ever, offering a full office suite, a better file manager, and even better integration features than before. I would personally like to THANK the KDE team for all of their hard work. These guys don't get enough thanks. I mean, they're doing this stuff for FREE. Sheesh. If you don't like it, maybe YOU can do better. But judging by this brain-free post of yours, my money's on them.

  • What we can expect (Score:4)

    by battery841 ( 34855 ) on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @03:41AM (#1204677) Homepage
    Over the past few months, I have become friends with some of the core developers of KDE and then some not-so-core developers, but still developers. They convinced me to at least give KDE2 a try. I'd recommend that anyone interested, tries it. Every other Saturday, I run cvsup and update all my KDE2 stuff and recompile it. It's not too hard at all to do. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it's going to be a great environment when they're through with it.
    In regards to their timeframe, I have noticed that when I do cvsup, the most edited packages are either kdelibs or kdebase, mostly kdelibs. I do agree, it's an agressive schedule, but I do think that they can complete it.
    For those who want to try KDE2, but want to keep KDE1.x, when you ./configure, make sure you do ./configure --prefix=/opt/kde2/ I do that, and it keeps both environments totally separate of eachother. For qt2.1, do --prefix=/opt/qt2.1/ Not too hard, is it?

  • Re:Wishware (Score:4)

    by divec ( 48748 ) on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @03:56AM (#1204678) Homepage
    Open source seems to have failed in everything except the kernel and Apache.

    That comment was posted with the aid of glibc, perl, php, bind and possibly a full GNU system, depending on what you have at your end.

  • Release this month??? (Score:4)

    by AlexA ( 97006 ) <alex-slashdot@d-oh . o rg> on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @02:19AM (#1204679)
    We're currently looking at a release towards the end of this month.

    Uhh, I thought the schedule said that kdelibs will be frozen by the end of this month, and the first beta is planned to be released around May.

    Here's what I found on the KDE News Page [kde.org]: The schedule is very aggressive, with a true KDE 1.9 beta due out at the beginning of May. Looks like the final release is still a few months away!

  • KDE2.0 Release Plan (Score:4)

    by rutger21 ( 132630 ) on Tuesday March 14, 2000 @02:36AM (#1204680)
    There is a HTML version of the KDE 2.0 Release plan up at http://deve loper.kde.org/development-versions/kde-2.0-release -plan.html [kde.org].

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