KDE 1.90 (2.0 Beta) 85
Jon347 writes: "KDE 2.0 beta has been released, and looking very slick, regular files are on kde.org's servers and rpms on people.redhat.com. This one has been delayed for a while but looks worth it. This is the first of three beta releases. "
Re:Links to downloads and comments (Score:1)
for the copy-paste disabled:
ftp://ftp.nebsllc.com/kde2 [nebsllc.com]
ftp://mandrakesoft.com/pub/molnarc [mandrakesoft.com]
http://www.htw-dresden.de/~s2697 [htw-dresden.de]
http://www.kde.org/mirrors.html [kde.org]
Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:2)
Perhaps, and it didnt bother me that he posted that information, but HOW did he post it.
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What's wrong with how he posted it? Considering that Gnome and KDE have more than a few similarities, it seems relatively on-topic (at least in the respect that people interested in a new release for one will likely be interested in the other).
What he asked was that people refrain from flaming, as he was providing information only. What do you do? Flame.
The irony is, erm, ironic.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
Re:Yes but (Score:2)
...but I will not allow my users...
[snip]
...any software which everyone can't get at free
Am I the only one who finds this incredibly humorous?
I guess one man's freedom is another's control.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
Re:suggestion (Score:1)
Sam TH
no X (Score:1)
Re:no X (Score:1)
Re:Why this is important (Score:2)
[client] $ ssh user@server # ssh w/xauth fwding
[server] $ kmgmt-app
Why else?
Your Working Boy,
Re:Just Installed...One Problem... (Score:1)
Re:Yes but (Score:2)
GNU != Free Software. Don't believe me, believe RMS. Go to www.gnu.org and look up the definition of free software. You will find 4 points, freedom to use, freedom to redistribute, freedom to modify and freedom to distribute modifications. Every component in KDE, as well as every piece of software released under any Open Source license qualifies. Every single one. Including the new Qt that KDE2 uses. Including everything released under the Artistic, MIT and BSD licenses.
Don't be a GNU Automaton. Think for yourself. Read the licenses. If you eventually choose not to think, that if fine by me, as long as it is YOUR decision.
Moderate down to -3 (Score:1)
Um, yeah, and I knew that?
Gee, imagine if our asses were about to get wiped out by an asteroid, and 99% of us never knew because some small-ass podunk station in South Dakota carried the news, and news networks worldwide said, "Hey, we can't carry that; some podunk small-ass station in the middle of South Dakota already carried that. We'd look like morons!!!"
Get the point? How about a blunter response, like, "Shut the hell up!"
Re:Competition is good (Score:1)
>API's that are coming up seem to be chasing
>Microsoft's tail.
>i.e. Outlook look-alikes
>Start buttoms and menu bars
One thing that folks aren't fond of pointing out is that it's rather a circular tail--in other words, Microsoft generally tends to take other folks' great ideas, and turn them into good ideas.
IE is a blatant example of ripoff; heck, Netscape was founded because folks like Andreesen(sp) couldn't sell Mosaic-aginst U of I's rules. Then, U of I sold it to Spyglass, who then sold it to Microsoft. Then Microsoft turned it into a half-assed Netscape clone with OS-specific extensions.
Imagine it, folks, being killed by your own product.
Let's face it, folks--the free-software world has been copying the commercial world for *years.* If it weren't for copying commercial software, the basic set of GNU utils wouldn't exist.
Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:1)
Preliminary bug report (Score:3)
* menus are flaky - sometimes with repeated use items dissapear and then they come back. There is some kind of timeout that seems unnecessary
* adding bookmarks to Konqueror (the web browser and file manager) amost always causes a crash. This is a severe problem. Adding bookmarks with the popup on right click might work bettter. It automatically adds all Netscape bookmarks and these work fine with Konqueror.
* themes are awful and all look pretty much the same. On the other hand the overal graphics quality is impressive - a much better rendering engine than kde 1.x. Plese note that themeing is
temporarily very limited due to a change in how themes are handled that won't be ready until another month or so. The icons are beautiful.
*multimedia is missing - none of the multimedia apps are included in this beta but non-kde apps work fine with kde (like mp3 players, etc.). The arts real time synthesizer is not quite ready...
*jpg backgrounds do not show up, but jpg images do in the web browser and elsewhere.
*file transfers (ftp and http) of tarred and gzipped archives unzip during download, resulting in a tar file that wrongly has a
* most importantly, if you already have kde 1.x installed you are strongly advised to totally remove or back up and rename (move) your
you are advised to move them somewhere else out of the path. This is not a problem with other distros that put kde in
the good stuff:
*memory usage is a little higher than kde 1.x it seems, but speed is about the same, overall. By a little higher I mean that 32 megs. of ram is plenty and you don't need much of a swap even with that.
*koffice apps are impressive and this alone is worth using the beta. You really don't need any commercial office suites. This is much better and uses far less memory. Note: ability to read MS office file formats is limited but if you want that then use Corel Word Perfect. For native unix, KOffice is nice.
* the browser (konqueror) is impressive - aside from the add bookmark bug. It's much, much nicer than Mozilla in very noticeable ways. The interface works, for one thing. Compare this, a work done mostly by volunteers, to the failed Mozilla effort (flame on) backed by all the billions Netscape and AOL have had to invest in it after 2 years and all the hype.
Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:1)
Re:More accurate links... (Score:1)
Re:Delayed for Quality Control. (Score:2)
Re:Have they made it more light weight??? (Score:1)
Re:2.0 beta? (Score:1)
If you'd bothered to look twice, you'd see that the beta actually is versioned 1.90, aka 2.0 Beta 1.
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Re:ss (Score:1)
Re:Yes but (Score:3)
KDElibs are LGPL
Parts of KDE packages (net, games, graphics, pim, multimedia, utils, toys) are GPL or Artistic License, varying by program to program.
KOffice is GPL'ed
Qt is QPL'ed
The DCOP IPC stuff is BSD licensed I believe.
So the answer is yes.
Of course, GPL bigots can't use Xfree, TeX, Perl etc as they are not GPL'ed, if they are that GPL bigoted. Free Software != Open Source, BFD.
Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:2)
I happened to see over at Linux Today [linuxtoday.com] that both were released, and it struck me as relevant to a story on beta desktop updates.
Christopher A. Bohn
KMail, not Magellan (Score:1)
Actually, the email app that will ship with KDE 2.0 will be the usual KMail. It has undergone severe improvements since the KDE1 version, though, and is getting much praise on presentations around.
Magellan should be ready around the time KDE 2.0 ships (September), but the Magellan team is completely seperate from the KDE team.
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Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:1)
Perhaps, and it didnt bother me that he posted that information, but HOW did he post it.
I personally did not know about the GNOME beta before this post, I'm sure there are others who would also be interested.
Actually, neither did I, and Im interested in both desktops. But the original posters lack of tact was to blame on this case.
Perhaps a better way to post this info would have been to add (OFFTOPIC) in the subject header. Or perhaps to avoid posting it here and submitting it to Slashdot for a whole new news item.
Just because GNOME is mentioned under a KDE thread doesn't mean it's an attempt to flame. The sad part is that you need to include disclaimers to let people know).
Very true, and I apologize if I was unnecesarilly rude.
YAD(yet another disclaimer): English is my second language, so please dont flame me if my grammar is not perfect. ; )
Delayed for Quality Control. (Score:3)
Sure there are people who will complain about this but the fact is quality is more important than time.
As for new features. I have been using the CVS code for a few months now and the UI improvements are truly astounding. There is evidence of this KDE being extremely fast. I haven't bench marked it but it's faster than the old one IMHO.
KOffice is truly ambitious. I have managed to get real work done in KOffice and some people have actually begin using KPresenter at conferences, What really impresses me though is the OLE like functionality. When you embed bits and pieces of different document types into a Presentation or a KWOrd doc you can edit them in place. The menus change on cue and the whole thing prefers not to crash. It dose keel over but not surprisingly often for a beta program.
This baby also comes in several languages already. English, German and French have nearly 100% coverage and some others come pretty close. Anyone who speaks another language natively and is fluent in one of these core languages should go join up.
Finally KWord is in need of developers. Sure there are other programs with manpower problems, even within KDE but KWord is IMHO the most important program for which the lead developer has made a special appeal.
Much more than an upgrade! (Score:2)
It's almost a rewrite - so definitely worth the bump from 1.x to 2.x.
The inclusion of a lightweight distributed object system is a bonus (early work with the MICO Orb showed that it was simply too heavyweight for a desktop environment), and removes a dependency on a large third party package.
All in all, KDE seems to represent an ideological alternative to GNOME. GNOME is ideal for hackers and others who love expermentation, tweaking, etc. KDE offers a more consistent and 'monolithic' environment, reflected in their infrequent releases versus the 'release often' philosophy of GNOME.
I reckon KDE is going to be the 'killer app' of the free software movement - not because it is better or worse than GNOME, but because it meets the needs of ordinary computer users perfectly.
Here's to version 2.0 of both KDE and GNOME!
Chris
Chris Wareham
Re:Nope. (Score:2)
Download it and try - I don't think you can call it vapourware when it's there for you to test. Pity you didn't do this before posting...
Re:Why this is important (Score:2)
Debian? (Score:2)
Seriously,
# apt-get install kde
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package kde
is really getting on my nerves.
Not everybody uses Red Hat and Mandrake (remember RedHatIsNotLinux), and not everybody has the time and disk space to download and compile all the sources.
Re:Maximize bug (Score:1)
Re:Much more than an upgrade! (Score:1)
You're right that KDE is making a significant jump in the move from CORBA to DCOP and to kparts - but the result is very nice
Well, duh. (Score:1)
Anyone tried this on AIX yet? (Score:2)
I'll probably wait until 2.0(.x) is out, but has anyone even given any of these pre-2.0 sources a shot? I'd be interested.
here (Score:2)
Re:Debian? (Score:1)
Here [http] we are
But still, it would be nice if they could go in the main distribution (because KDE, Konqueror, etc. is cool and installing it should be at least as easy as running it).
Did CmdrTaco even follow the links? (Score:1)
GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:3)
GNOME 1.1.90 [gnome.org] (GNOME 1.2 Beta) also has been released.
Christopher A. Bohn
Re:Did CmdrTaco even follow the links? (Score:1)
Seems to be a lack of editorial control! Neither link even vaguely looks like it would lead to any specific files.
So, are stories vetted properly before they are submitted or rejected, or is it more a case of who the submitter is?
linkage?? (Score:1)
Maybe... (Score:2)
Congratulations! (Score:1)
Once this gets stable, people will come to unix in masses.
With your desktop project, we will finally and provably have surpassed any MS GUI.
Now if somebody gives me kvim, the kimp and kwicken, I won't need anything else, ever.
Re:Did CmdrTaco even follow the links? (Score:1)
Or perhaps some of the responsibility for the omission can be laid at the feet of the person who submitted the story? I agree that the editors should do at least some minimal fact-checking, following of links, etc., but story submitters should do their best to make this as minimal as possible.
Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:2)
Then why did you post this?
I mean, really, cant there be a news item from KDE without the GNOME zealots making propaganda?
Also, cant there be a GNOME news item without the KDE zealots making propaganda?
Please, my friend, lets keep the KDE comments in the KDE news items and the GNOME comments in the GNOME news items.
disclaimer: I use BOTH KDE and GNOME
Re:Did CmdrTaco even follow the links? (Score:1)
rpms: ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/distribution/r
Better?
Gimp UI (Score:1)
More accurate links... (Score:3)
The announcement/press release is here [kde.org], source code here [kde.org], and binary packages (only RH/Mandrake so far) here [kde.org]. The beta also includes KOffice [kde.org]. There will be two more betas before the final release in September.
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Re:Did CmdrTaco even follow the links? (Score:1)
Mark Papadakis, WebDeveloper
Great! This is what we need for Linux! (Score:1)
All I can say is that the latest version of KDE looks better than ever, and that it's great to finally have a desktop that is slick and powerful. I'm downloading the rpms now, and am looking foward to installing it.
I have to say that the KDE team have got the right idea. Rather than following some pie in the sky ivory tower ideal of what a desktop should be, they are following in the tried and tested footsteps of the most usable, powerful and popular desktop available at the moment, the Windows one. Since 99% of people who've ever used a computer have grown up using Windows I think that this is a cunning move and is more likely to help Linux than creating some fancy experimental desktop filled with novelty "features" like GNOME.
If we ever want Linux to succeed then we need to take a big leaf out of Microsoft's book - despite their faults they knew what their customers want and knew how to deliver it, often even before the customer knew. At the moment Linux is merely placing catch-up, and it is time for us to catch up and then take the lead in creating an innovative operating system that can be used by everybody, not just the elite gurus.
Re:what's the deal. (Score:1)
Thad
ss (Score:3)
Everyone loves screen shots [kde.org]
Competition is good (Score:2)
Christopher A. Bohn
Re:Have they made it more light weight??? (Score:1)
Furthermore KDE 2 is extremely modular, which means that you can configure it to be pretty lightweight.
Re:Why this is important (Score:1)
Why do you install it on servers? Or do you not mean the sort of server that generally sits in a machine room without a monitor attached?
One of my (many
Surely you want as little unnescessary stuff on a server as possible?
That said, I'll certainly be giving it a whirl on my desktop
Cheers,
Tim
Konqueror looks like a really cool browser! (Score:1)
- HTML 4.0
- JavaScriptTM
- Java®
- CSS-2
- SSL (Secure Socket Layer for secure communications)
- Netscape Communicator® plugins (for viewing FlashTM, RealAudioTM, RealVideoTM and similar technologies)
IMHO, that is *pretty cool*
Re:Have they made it more light weight??? (Score:1)
Oh, that's easy, especially in assembler. Just use the instruction CAO (Compare Apples and Oranges). :-)
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Re:2.0 beta? (Score:1)
FVWM2 is customizable and not huge (Score:1)
Not particularly user-friendly but you can make it look almost whatever way you want.
And it's far faster than KWM (or just about everything else), far less bloated than Enlightenment, and can be made as pretty as WindowMaker or as butt-ugly as the now-obsolete TWM.
Works great with WindowMaker, too (Score:4)
Follow the directions [kde.org] for using KDE 1 and 2 together. Add the line:
source
to your Xsession or xinitrc or whatever before the line that starts WindowMaker.Add the line:
kdeinit +kded
to your autostart file, or:
kdeinit +kded +kdesktop
if you want desktop icons. This works with icewm, also, and probably with anything else.
My one gripe is that kdesktop covers the real root window, which negates the greatest strength of WindowMaker -- 4,752 different Laetitia Casta themes.
Re:Congratulations! (Score:2)
For the first, the second, and the last time, YES. Computer novices have enough trouble learning the difference between, say, checkboxes and radio buttons. It only makes matters worse when there are fifty different styles of checkboxes and radio buttons. Meanwhile, most Windows and Mac applications (knock on wood) have consistent fonts, dialogs, colors, and widgets. Obviously, things aren't perfect, but X apps still have a ways to go before they're as usable as those in other environments.
Re:Competition is good (Score:2)
As others have pointed out, a lot of the apps and API's that are coming up seem to be chasing Microsoft's tail.
i.e. Outlook look-alikes
Start buttoms and menu bars
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KDE question from ignorant, GNOME-only linux user (Score:1)
"Standing up to an evil system [pcshop.com.br] is exhilarating." --Richard Stallman
Shame... (Score:1)
Botched the link up.
Here [tdyc.com].
Re:Have they made it more light weight??? (Score:1)
Debian and KDE (Score:1)
Because of the various provisions of the GPL, this means that, while I have permission to download Qt, and I have permission to download GPL-licensed software, I do not have permission to redistribute GPL-licensed binaries linked with Qt.
This is why Debian doesn't ship KDE. Because Debian insists on being shipping binary releases, which is not allowed by the combination of GPL and QPL. For a very similar reason, Debian can't ship qmail. (DJB does not allow distribution of binaries from modified source.)
From what I remember, Red Hat decided to ship KDE only because they believed that the KDE people and/or Troll Tech were taking care of the licensing issue Any Day Now. (Market pressure from Caldera might have had something to do with the decision as well.) This almost happened when TT released the QPLv2, which is almost GPL-compatible. Today, with Red Hat on board (and they were the only major Linux distribution other than Debian that cared much about the GPL violations of the original KDE+Qt), none of the parties involved seem at all interested in going the rest of the distance.
Most Linux distributions sweep this particular difficulty under the rug. They know that the KDE developers intend for their software to be freely redistributable, ergo nobody is likely to complain about their minor, but very real, license violation. Debian refuses and will continue to refuse to do this, because they believe licensing details, however petty, are important -- and that, if you ignore the "inconvenient" parts, all software licenses are meaningless. You might say Debian are the "strict constitutionalists" of software licensing. (I.e. a license doesn't just mean what I want it to mean, or even what its author wanted it to mean.)
[While I believe I share Debian's corporate opinion in this matter, I do not actually speak for them.]
Re:Nope. (Score:1)
Re:what's the deal. (Score:2)
Re:Debian? (Score:1)
These are development releases, the developers have better things to do than roll packages for everyone and their dog's version of Linux, plus unless you are getting the source your probably no good to the developers. (ok, some people write docs or submit good bug reports from binaries, but very, very few.)
Erik
Re:Just Installed...One Problem... (Score:2)
Re:Much more than an upgrade! (Score:2)
I love the release often philosophy, but it does mean that the GNOME stuff is in a state of constant flux. The October GNOME release addressed this to some extent, but for the casual user upgrading must be confusing. The KDE Krash and 1.9x releases are an attempt at the release often approach by the KDE team. Given that many people see KDE as an ideal way of moving from Windows, the apparent infrequency of releases must be reassuringly like the release schedule of Windows service packs.
On the other hand, if you download the nightly KDE 2.0 snapshots, you can get a "release very often" KDE experience!
Chris Wareham
Re:Debian? (Score:1)
Sorry, if you've seen this interview [slashdot.org] at /., you'd know why
# apt-get install kde
results in
E: Couldn't find package kde
Short story: QPL (see #2 in the a.m. link).
Why this is important (Score:3)
- It is easy to use
- It offers a consistent user experience. I can't stress this enough. One thing Microsoft has over us is that a user can sit down in front of any Windows machine and know where to expect to find the usual set of tools and buttons. KDE places emphasis on a consistent user experience as well, and I think this is very important if we want Linux to start showing up on more desktops.
I, for one, always deploy KDE when setting up Linux systems for my customers, be they desktop systems or server systems. KDE 2.0 looks to be a very nice upgrade, one worthy of bumping the major version number. Viva la revolucion!--
Links to downloads and comments (Score:2)
ftp://ftp.nebsllc.com/kde2
ftp://mandrakesoft.com/pub/molnarc
http://www.htw-dresden.de/~s2697
Also of interest
http://www.kde.org/mirrors.html
The beta is quite fast, fairly stable, and rather pretty. It has some problems, notably filemanager stability with JS, Java, and multiple windows, but it does embed its viewers for graphics and text well, is configurable, and renders slashdot, supporting cookies etc. That was of course, the important test
Re:GNOME 1.1.90 also released (Score:2)
-matt
Re:Did CmdrTaco even follow the links? (Score:2)
Rpms:ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unst able/distribution/rpm/ [kde.org]
Better?
Re:ss (Score:1)
suggestion (Score:1)
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Re:Great! This is what we need for Linux! (Score:1)
The most important aspect of KDE (2.0 expecially) is it's customizability. You can make the think look like windows or the mac, + power users can customize it to be more powerfull.
We need to strive to 100% customizability in GUIs. You can have default templates that look like windows, but the best WM will be the one that is most customizable.
Nope. (Score:1)
Re:Have they made it more light weight??? (Score:1)
I use a 200mhz Pentium MMX with 32 meg. of ram at home.
Kde 1.12 (the latest stable version) runs comfortably with
very little swap usage and several desktops and many apps
running. Never has my swap been over 25 meg. unless doing
HEAVY compiling in the background while also doing other
things. Also, I use lots of graphics and it performs well with
my cheap, onboard AGP video card at 16 bpp (800x600).
Kde is not a window manager. Kde includes a window manger
but can be used with almost any wm. More than anything
it's a development system for apps, with certain optional
desktop features if you want to use them, or use them all with
the default kde widow manager, kwm. (now kwin in 2.0).
If you have 192 megs of ram, what are you running in the
background?
Regarding the masses whining for what they want, at least
someone is listening to the sound of that whining and trying
to make it unnecessary. Kde has lots of superficial similarities
to the Windows desktop, but I find it more like OS2. I'm a
former OS2 developer who worked on the OS2 2.x product
that led to "Warp". Also, please remember that most of the
features the masses associate with Windows were not
invented by MS, such as the bar at the bottom with the "start"
menu and so on. They first appeared in Amiga, Mac, OS2 or
even commercial X desktops long before MS implemented
them after people complained and complained about the
limitations of the Windows 3.x "program manager" if you are
old enough to remember that. Actually, almost all of these
features were implemented as contributions from IBM
developers done in their spare time and made available
with source long before open source became a buzz word.
Regardless of some similarities with Windows, OS2 and Mac
desktops, Kde is something new done from scratch for the
unix desktop.
I have built some of the snapshots during the past month
leading up to this release (1.90). You can expect some bugs
and incomplete features but the improvement in speed over
the past month has been remarkable. It should be a fairly
usable desktop environment even in this first beta release
for most things and integrates nicely with an existing kde 1.x
installation and with Gnome apps.
thank you, kde developers!
Just Installed...One Problem... (Score:1)
where is kdemultimedia? (Score:1)
Maximize bug (Score:1)
ARGH. It's great otherwise. I can't believe such an obvious bug would be left in! Is there an easy fix or does it need to be done in source?
what's the deal. (Score:1)
By the way, I think the email program to be released with KDE 2.0 is Magellan, which looks much more slick than Evolution (which is for Gnome).
Magellan: http://zamolxe.csis.ul.ie/Magellan/in dex.html [csis.ul.ie]
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Have they made it more light weight??? (Score:1)
Last time i used KDE i found that it was a unresponsive as compared to say twm (bad comparision, as KDE has the bars at the top and bottom &tc [perhaps i should say more features]). But i felt as a WM it was just to heavy for me to use comfortably (Celeron333 +192MB RAM) I hope that as they have progressed towards 2.0 that they have tweaked it a little.
I know that i have the source and all that, but really i wouldn't know what to do with that source.
Has open source turned into the masses whining for what they want and the few (big few) who impliment it?
.sig =
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=HVZ895
Re:Yes but (Score:1)
Re:Congratulations! (Score:1)
Only a KDE bigot would want to rewrite a program that has a good UI and is compatible because they want to change the name to kimp from gimp.
}
I love the gimp. But I think the gimp would profit from a better GUI. The current one with 1000 submenues (I know you can drag them off...) is usable, but I like the simple elegance of most KDE apps. Plus: KDE Themability
Fortunately I have just read the a gimp-compatible KDE program is planned. (kphotoshop or something like that). Maybe the gimp will become GUI-independent. (Not likely.... GTK
BTW: The gimp saves horrible EPS files. (10 times the size of imagenagicks convert) Anyone know why?