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One-Finger Keyboarding? 137

Posted by CmdrTaco from the and-you-thought-dvorak-was-funky dept.
adubey writes: "Forget Qwerty, forget Dvorak; the best keyboard for palmtops may well be the Fitaly One-Finger Keyboard. " Kinda nifty idea actually, I'm wondering if we'll see one that would work for a wearable PC (like maybe this guy from IBM).
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One-Finger Keyboarding? More

One-Finger Keyboarding?

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  • But will it work with your nose?

  • Reboot (Score:4)

    by Shagg ( 99693 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @04:43AM (#953839)
    Does this mean that if your computer locks up, instead of the 3-finger salute, you just "give it the finger"?
  • This sounds like a neat idea. I know I would much prefer a keyboard than the writing pad on my palm some times, and the collapsable, full sized one is too bulky and too expensive. Maybe I will think about trading my PDA up.
  • I mean, how am I supposed to do an alt-meta-shift-control-z? Oh wait, I don't have emacs on my PalmPilot, yet.
  • It seems to me that this type of keyboarding creates gestures - you soon learn what order to press the keys in properly to create the most common words, and soon enough you're back to graffiti, except instead of one letter per gesture, it's one word per gesture.

    Has anybody played with the demo? I'm not near a Windows box and can't get it on my palm right now.

  • I know, I know, I'm just a whiny geek, but what about Thumbcode [stanford.edu]? You mean I learned a whole system of typing on my hands to produce letters just so they could come up with yet another layout?!? C'mon, man! It's tough enough to learn to type on one keyboard with the continuously-shifting backslash problem, now there's ANOTHER layout?

    All whining aside, however, this looks like a really ingenious step toward making wearable computers *USABLE*, as well!

  • Slogan see-saw (Score:3)

    by FascDot Killed My Pr ( 24021 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @04:47AM (#953844)
    Current slogan: "Concentrate all of your typing into a 'single point of failure' with the Fitaly One-Finger Keyboard!".

    Tomorrow's slogan: "You have ten fingers. So why are you typing with only one? Use the Fitaly Ten-Finger Keyboard!"
    --
  • If you've got one finger free, like your "pointer" finger, then you're quite likely to have another finger free like the one next to it. Why not design a keyboard with that in mind? Wouldn't it be even more efficient?

    I'm trying to imagine a situation where a person is so bogged down that they only have one finger free. If that's the future of computing, I'll stick with inefficiently typing 100 wpm with all 10 fingers.

    dwl - devils advocate always

  • One-Handed Reading (Score:5)

    by carlhirsch ( 87880 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @04:48AM (#953846) Homepage
    Great! Now I'll have that other hand free for... well, you know.

    -carl
  • There are many things best done with one finger that are best left unsaid.
    This is not one of them.

  • We continually cheer new PDAs because of their "neat" features such as ultra high ammounts of memory, or their wireless ability. But when it really comes down to what PDA you buy, isn't the data entry interface the most important thing? I mean, if I'm sitting in a class, in order for me to take notes on a PDA, I have to enter data as fast as it's being said. With enough time to still listen and understand the lecture so that I might ask questions.

    Because until the user interface on a PDA is advanced, we can't expect it to grow to it's fullest potential.

  • I've always said, all I need to recover from this carpal tunnel syndrome is some device to allow me to type with my penis for a while. Perfect.

    'one finger keyboard' strikes me as a euphemism along the same lines as when you buy a 'facial massager', but then I'm a huge, huge pervert.

  • Finger Fatigue (Score:3)

    by Kartoffel ( 30238 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @04:50AM (#953850)
    Using only one finger must get pretty tiring after awhile. Why limit yourself to just one finger when the majority of people have quite a few more fingers available?
  • but we have to entirely relearn to type. Sure i did that using my TI-85 calculator when i learned to program it but it took a while. and i relearned to write on my mindspring palmpilot with their graffiti writing style that the screen recognizes. I leaned on a QWERTY. does this mean i'll have to learn another one?

  • Re:Neet Idea (Score:3)

    by Wattsman ( 75726 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @04:51AM (#953852)
    It is pretty good, I've got it on my TRGpro.
    It takes a while to get used to the new character placement, but the ability to capitalize a character by sliding it (sort of like a click-n-drag) makes entering names a lot faster. My typing is still as good as it's been (one concern people have had is that the Fitaly layout will interfere with typing).
    The collapsable keyboard ($99) is worth it if you have to take notes at a meeting. Fitaly is fast, but I still find it faster to type than to tap. I should note that the collapsable keyboard is the smallest of all the PalmOS keyboards when folded up.

  • I've used it (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I use the Fitaly keyboard for the Palm, and it works quite well. It takes a bit to get used to the layout, but once you learn it you can type pretty quickly. I'm much faster with it than I was with Graffity.
  • I mean really, that is the reaction I have....

    But I suppose.......

    I imagine that there are going to be all kinds of ideas that will be tried out. Some kinda flaky.

    I am reminded of the april fools joke that was offering free cars if you accepted advertising on the side of the car, etc. It has since made the news as a legit business idea in California. Not that I am surprised.

  • ruggedised componentry would be a start. Ship inspectors ? I live on the coast and salt is a bastard on the stuff my house is made of, let alone keyboards and other electrical / electronic componentry.

    And what about spillage ? Don't any of these guys eat or drink ?



    "The reason I was speeding is.....

  • For all of the people who never type with more than one finger at a time to begin with...

    No more qwerty hunting and pecking - now hunting and pecking will be optimized for entry with a single finger or pen!

    From the title I was thinking that this was an input device though, not just a new "efficient" layout. I hope this discussion doesn't degenerate in to QWERTY vs. DVORJAK flame wars.
  • Nice idea, but the windows version [twsolutions.com] is a software program. If it locks up it ignores your finger, liked bill cared anyway..... By the way no linux version? (is there a pen version of linux?)
  • I mean, people are pretty accustomed to just doing whatever it is they want to do (no matter how slowly), that they may resent being forced to learn a new keyboard. Also, when you're typing with a pen or with one finger, you're not gonna be typing that fast anyway, no matter how optimized the keyboard is. So I wonder what kind of a speed increase this scheme really offers. Finally, what is wrong with the graffiti system built into current Palm Pilots?


    ========
    Stephen C. VanDahm
  • Sure, a one handed keyboard is great for PDAs and it better than mucking around trying to press a microscopic qwerty-based keyboard. But, it still doesn't help the fact that keyboards are just a ludcriously ineffective means of input.

    I am just waiting for the day when I can talk (or even better, think) to my computer. I mean, talk about a bottle neck. (meaning my uncoordinated fingers)
  • What with the big gaps in the middle row? I'd like to see the side moved to eliminate those. Otherwise, you'll see a nice Windows logo there in a few years. Of course, they are missing critical keys (space, enter, a few punctuation). Nevermind the numbers, all the character above the numbers, shift, alt, ctrl......
  • (Re: your sig, and ontopic):

    I'm trying to get to their contact page - do you think that they would be interested in having a BeOS port so manufacturers of BeIA devices can include Fitaly text input? Just a thought.

  • Emacs = Esc, Meta, Alt, Ctrl, Shift


    ========
    Stephen C. VanDahm
  • Sounds strange.
    I just got a Palm last week end and, thanks to "Giraffe", I learnt Graffiti in ten minutes.
    IMHO this is the best way to have text data entered in a computer, with, maybe, voice recognition (question: how do you indent text comfortably using a voice recognition programm?).
    The given URL does't lead to any valuable reason to type using only ONE finger.
    If you take the device in your hand and intend to type something, you'll need your other hand or you will type slowly and you won't find it comfortable.
    If you use your second hand, then, you won't be limited by one finger, except if you're one-fingered (or if you use your nose). So, instead of elaborating such gadgets that only a few one-fingered people could enjoy, why don't they start reflecting on really innovative input peripherals ?
    --
  • It's tough enough to learn to type on one keyboard with the continuously-shifting backslash problem, now there's ANOTHER layout?

    I don't buy keyboards that have backslashes in the wrong place. I define the correct layout to be the one that every major OEM (Compaq, HP, Apple and others) and Logitech have been using for years, and almost every manufacturer of cheap replacement keyboards keeps trying to screw up. Logitech is the only company I've found that makes a keyboard with the correct layout that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (only $15-$20).

    --

  • The keyboard is obviously a very good input device and serves me quite well. I've been doing it long enough I can type faster then most.

    But how far along are we in regards to .. direct input? It sure would be a lot easier to "think" what I wanted to type and have it appear.

    Anyone know?

  • Looking at the keyboard, it's obvious to me that it was designed by Pokey's [yellow5.com] arch-rival, the Italians!

  • From the looks of it, and how the keyboard seems to be designed, the two gaps are probably a split space bar. Now, for the rest of the keys, that is an interesting question, though, from the overall marketing of the keyboard, those are probably left to be placed elsewhere on the touch screen; this isn't a replacement for the keyboard hooked up to your desktop, just your palmtop.

  • Not one *finger*!! (Score:5)

    by rhdwdg ( 29954 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:04AM (#953868) Homepage
    I've been using the software fitaly for my Palms for quite a while now, and loved it. Just a couple days ago (I ordered on the last day of the special price offer) I bought the FitalyStamp for my Palm III. The improvement is wonderful. The Palm IIIxe's digitizer seems to be a lot thicker than my old Palm Pro's, and the parallax was killing my accuracy. With the Stamp I'm back up to my proper 40-45 wpm. I type at that speed too, so I personally can write on my Palm [jeffkirvin.com] as fast as at my desk.

    But back to the point -- this isn't about one finger input, it's about pen input. Big difference. It's fast: I just bring my Palm to meetings now and don't bother with paper. I can read my notes, unlike my handwriting, and upload them to my desktop so I can store them with the rest of my electronic notes. I hate paper.

    The product really works, and I just wish they could port InstantText to the Palm. Or Linux. It looks cool, but I'm not going to do my writing in Word 97 just to use it.

  • Re:one finger? Hah! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I can already communicate everyting I need to say with one finger!
  • About time that someone came up with this idea!
  • Using only one finger must get pretty tiring after awhile. Why limit yourself to just one finger when the majority of people have quite a few more fingers available?

    One obvious application is keyboards on touchscreens. These are usually used with one finger, and they could easily be small enough to be only practical with a pointing device, rather than for touch typing. You could probably fit one of those things on a largish mobile phone screen.

  • give your computer THE FINGER (Score:3)

    by mwalker ( 66677 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:07AM (#953872) Homepage
    top 10 advantages to a one-finger keyboard:

    10) easier to type "hunt-and-peckers unite!"
    9) "i'm not flicking you off, i'm practicing typing on the ceiling".
    8) if you get carpel tunnel in one finger, just switch fingers.
    7) you can finger your computer in public without getting stared at.
    6) don't have to worry about losing your career skills if you get your hand caught in the ceiling fan.
    5)linux users can now finger() someone with a finger.
    4) you can use two fingers to hold a donut and one to type
    3) that leaves one finger left over for picking your nose
    2) two words: pinky envy.

    and the #1 reason to use a one-finger keyboard:

    1) sometimes, there's just not enough room for two fingers.
  • Does this mean that if your computer locks up, instead of the 3-finger salute, you just "give it the finger"?

    I hear that the latest version of Microsoft's Natu ral keyboard [fu-berlin.de] provides just the most natural Microsoft combinations.

  • We continually cheer new PDAs because of their "neat" features such as ultra high ammounts of memory, or their wireless ability. But when it really comes down to what PDA you buy, isn't the data entry interface the most important thing? I mean, if I'm sitting in a class, in order for me to take notes on a PDA, I have to enter data as fast as it's being said. With enough time to still listen and understand the lecture so that I might ask questions.



    We need a PDA with near perfect speech to text and a nice built in microphone. With enough storage space you could keep a entire semester of lectures on your palm, without all of that messy ink run off I always had trouble with!

    Kintanon
  • I have been using Fitaly for my Palm for almost a year now. It is fairly easy to learn, and much faster than Graffiti (which I still use for the odd command or two, but nothing else). This is the 'soft' keyboard version, though I believe there is now a plastic overlay version available.
    It is one of the smoothest Palm applications I have used - it integrates well with other applications, and scrolls whatever is on the screen, so the cursor is always visible. Highly recommended.
  • Bottle-neck? Not my fault you never learned
    touch-typing properly. A good typist can type
    faster than he can speak.

    Chris Mattern
  • These [fentek-ind.com] people sell them, for example.

  • I tried spelling out words on this (just by visually hunting-and-pecking on the keyboard in their pictures) and it seemed like it was very easy to learn. One of the things they say is that they minimized travel distances for the most common letter transitions -- meaning not only does your finger travel less, but hunting-and-pecking is much easier because the letter you're looking for is probably close to the letter you just typed.

    Also, I can say personally that even though I know QWERTY very well -- I type about 80 wpm -- that's with two hands. My experiences using QWERTY one-handed haven't been so positive at all, so if I were to regularly need a one-handed keyboard, I'd seriously consider something like this keyboard. Sure, you'd have to relearn a little, but that's just as difficult a transition (possibly easier) as going from two-handed QWERTY to one-handed QWERTY.

    Francis Hwang

  • Fitaly user speaks out... (Score:4)

    by isaac ( 2852 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:13AM (#953879)
    I use Fitaly on my Palm V (more specifically, FitalyStamp [fitaly.com], an overlay that replaces the Grafitti area) and it's great. I was quite used to Grafitti (having owned one PalmOS device or another since my Pilot 5000 in '96), but I find I'm much faster (upwards of 30wpm at times) and more accurate w/ Fitaly.

    That said, I don't see Fitaly replacing the standard mechanical keyboard. Where it might be useful, however is in touch screen devices like point-of-sale terminals or (especially) vertical-market devices for inventory tracking or insurance claims processing.

    And to the people wondering what the "blank keys" to either side of "n" and "e", they're space bars, naturally.

    Finally, I'm pretty sure the link in the article is obsolete. I use http://fitaly.com [fitaly.com] to get to Textware Solution's homepage frequently, and haven't seen a link to twsolutions.com in a long time.

    -Isaac

  • This is the wrong solution (Score:3)

    by terzyva ( 154478 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:15AM (#953880)
    I think that this solution misses the point - for efficiency, you need an input system where you do not need to look at the keyboard. This would be especially important for wearable computers.

    It would make much more sense to use a chording keyboard for an organizer - the Microwriter AgendA [hiway.co.uk] supported this a long time ago, but has unfortunately been discontinued. (BTW, I haven't been able to find a description of the AgendA's chording scheme - does anyone have a link?)

    For a wearable, something like the Twiddler [handykey.com] would make much more sense. What I would really like is an updated twiddler that plugs directly into the PS/2 (or USB) port, and with a Trackpoint (like in IBM Thinkpad laptops) instead of the imprecise tilting mouse sensor.

  • I read an article about two years ago by the internet from this [bndestem.nl] newspaper - he thought up a seven key keyboard. It's harder to learn but quicker to work. I [warp9.to] get RSI anyway...
  • I agree, and the ultimate (albeit non-graphical) user interface would be your PDA capturing VOICE as an input, imo. Given Moore's law and other effects, this probably isn't as far-off as it seems. Ultimately, we might be used to a device taking down everything a professor says, and cooperating with the device to filter and distill THAT into something useful, something akin to the opposite of taking notes traditionally, with the possibly the same or similar result. Maybe.

    On another topic, I am especially interested in anyone's experiences with IBM's ViaVoice [ibm.com] for Linux. My grandmother is old, she will never use a keyboard and only maybe a mouse, so if I want her to have a computer (and I do) before she dies, this is my only choice. Thanks.
    JMR
  • By reading the article, I learned that those are actually space keys.
  • This seems very odd to me. If you use one finger, surely that's the whole hand occupied, so why not make use of the other 4 fingers? What's more, the single finger you're using is going to be racing around the place like a mad thing, and that's going to be uncomfortable.

    I prefer the idea of the Quinkey chording keyboard, which has been around since the mid 80s at least, where each finger (or thumb) stays on one of 5 home keys, and input depends on chords. I've never bothered to learn such a thing, but it seems ideal for wearables and any application where you require a hand free.
    --

  • MS keyboard (Score:3)

    by xyllix ( 208256 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:28AM (#953885)
    Wow, this is even better than Microsoft's keyboard. See http://www.mackido.com/Humor/MSKeyboar d.html [mackido.com]. Control-Alt-Delete -- what more do you need with Microsoft?
  • shouldn't the 'y' and 'n' key be situated next to each other because the ease of use in answering yes or no questions.

    on second thought, i guess there aren't that many computer applications that ask you to enter in 'y' or 'n' as opposed to 'ok' and 'cancel'.

    maybe this keyboard should have programmable keys...

    visit: Eastern Suburbs Rugby Football Club's WebSite [clevelandrugby.com]

  • Re:One-Handed Reading (Score:3)

    by Paul Neubauer ( 86753 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:32AM (#953887)

    Great! Now I'll have that other hand free for... well, you know.

    Jokes aside, a one-handed (which a one-fingered is as well) keyboard would be useful. The other hand may be on a mouse/trackball/trackpad. Or holding a telephone handset.. or a slice of pizza.. or a fork.. or..

    It's not the regular keys that are problem, generally. One can use a QWERTY keyboard one-fingered with hunt-n-peck, but combination keystrokes (those with shift, control, and alt) can be a very real stretch. Yes, I know, the right way is to just get the heck away from the keyboard when something (such as supper) would limit use to one hand.

    Another, much more serious application of 'one-finger' keying would be for those who can only type with a unicorn stick strapped to their forehead. The less travel required would be a Good Thing, and while voice recognition may be good, it still needs correction and that means typing.


  • The Microsoft Keyboard;

    http://www.attrition.org/gallery/m s/win2k-kbd.jpg [attrition.org]

    This obligitory Microsoft slam brough to you by attrition.org.

  • I don't know about today's computers, but I have an Apple IIc Plus in my basement that had a toggle switch that could switch between standard and Dvorak keyboard settings. Granted, you had to switch the keycaps around to match up with the Dvorak chart provided with the Apple manual, which got really annoying after a while. But it was really funny to secretly switch it to Dvorak and listen in as an unlucky user exclaimed, "The damn keyboard is broken!"

    --
  • ...but I suspect I'll eventually want to type something other than "Screw you!" at a computer.

    -JDF
  • I think the fitaly keyboard is similar in concept to the Number key-pad. Basically, by laying everything out in a "square-ish" format where vertical movement is more prevalent, it reduces hand movement and thus increases typing speed.

    Thats why the key-pad basically 0wnz j00!

  • My grandmother is old, she will never use a keyboard and only maybe a mouse, so if I want her to have a computer (and I do) before she dies, this is my only choice.

    But does your grandmother want to have a computer?

  • It's great for pen-typing... (Score:3)

    by ichimunki ( 194887 ) on Thursday July 06, 2000 @05:38AM (#953893)
    I used Fitaly on my Palm for quite a while (until I discontinued use of the Palm, in fact). It was very easy to use and made the device a lot more useful in that I could get text in at a closer to "normal" rate. I envision future computing devices that incorporate a pen keyboard and a touch capable screen for the majority of the work. For major text needs (writing books, text mode programming/scripting, IRC) a regular ten-finger keyboard or something along those lines is obviously needed, but for web surfing, non-action games (which seem to require joysticks or such), graphics work, general GUI interaction, the Palm/Fitaly model is my preference. I like that direct interaction with the screen and like having a keyboard that is functional but does not require the hands to switch devices (from keyboard to mouse) by being part of the screen. Heck, if you're ambidextrous, the pen model makes you twice as efficient, right?
  • I mean, I don't know... I'm sure it would be convinient when you're trying to save space, like with the Palms, but with your tower? I just don't see how it would be a time saver, it seems to me like it would be more time consuming, having to type everything out with 1 finger or 3, when you have 10! But, well, that's just me.... :)
  • Looks like they're having finger trouble:

    $ finger @twosolutions.com
    finger: non-recoverable failure in name resolution.

  • I've written a program called gtkeyboard [nols.com] which uses this keyboard layout as one of its "possibilities". The keyboard is meant for all kinds of different applications (including possible wearable applications and things like keyboardless kiosks and the physically disabled).

    The keyboard layout was originally given to me as the "opti" keyboard by one of the people who contributed code to the project. It actually is quite good for using a keyboard with one finger, or in the case of gtkeyboard, with the mouse, which is functionally equivalent to one finger really.

    It is quite a good design, putting the spaces pretty much everywhere so that you can get to them from any key. With an average word length of 5 in English, it pretty much means that rougly 18-20% of your keystrokes are going to be spaces. Makes sense to have them in a convenient place, eh?

    Most people wouldn't believe how much research goes into making these things the way they are. With this keyboard, they did a lot of tests training people to use it. As was expected, at the beginning people were actually a bit slower with it than with a qwerty keyboard because they didn't know where the keys were. As time went on though, they were able to VASTLY improve their speed over even the best speeds with qwerty. (remember, we're talking one finger here, not 10)

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • And you thought the one button mouse was bad!

  • I'm curious, what does Windoze CE use? Does it
    just display a keyboard, or has M$ "innovated" their own version of Graffiti
  • ...It's called the Morse code telegraph. :)
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • For once they didn't add any extra features. Only what you need for Windows.
  • You could use sticky keys to enter ctrl-alt-combinations.. You depress shift and the next key you press will be shifted.. You press shift, then ctrl, then b, hey presto, you pressed ctrl-shift-b.. Does this exist in X? Or just in terminals?

    Either way, you can type ESC, and then a key instead of META-key in Emacs.. HTH.. HAND.. ;-)
    --

  • I used it on my Newton 4 years ago, and I know it's been out longer than that. Granted, it's a clever solution when you don't have handwriting recognition, so we'll probably see more uses for stuff like this (although T9 is probably a better solution for phones). It is nice, but I can click fast enough on QWERTY, and my Newt _does_ have HRW...

  • pr0n (Score:1)

    by rtscts ( 156396 )
    this'll be just perfect for those one-handed web surfers...
  • i use 3 fingers and thumb for the number pad.
    (years of using a 10 key calculator)
  • What does PICO equal?
  • What it looks like is someone trying to implement the "Hellraiser" box in digital form. :)

    I've always thought that the BAT Keyboards [officeorganix.com] were clever -- "a fully functioning keyboard for one hand." Not too practical for a Palm, of course, but perhaps for a tablet computer? I've always imagined that when you see folks on "Star Trek: TNG" typing away with one hand on a computer gadget they're holding, they're using a BAT layout.

  • Using the mouse?
  • I have a Nino 510 (CE 2.11)... and CE has a QWERTY keyboard... I find it quite hard to use. We also have handwriting recognition. In the pre-CE-3.0 models, this was done w/ Caligrapher, or Jot... in the new PocketPCs...WinCE 3.0, I believe it is built in. Both accessible by the keyboard icon, either in the taskbar (pre 3.0) or the little status bar at the bottom (3.0)

    If Palm did MP3's and other multimedia, I'd *DEFINITELY* switch though.

  • I realize that this is a bit off topic, but I thought that I saw a one-handed "keyboard" a few years ago. I'm trying to remember who made it, but it was essentially something that you put your hand on, and then each finger was given a key & the thumb recieved 3 key. You got characters to appear by pressing combinations of those buttons. I don't know if it still exists, but it was interesting
  • No, a good touch-typist can type faster than his computer can understand him speaking, or faster than a poor orator can speak. Depending on circumstances and content, intelligible human speech gets up to 300 wpm in the "exceptional" range. 150 wpm is much more comfortable. I think you're going to have a hard time defending the claim that in order to be considered a "good" touch typist, you need to type 150wpm.

    Reading the above paragraph, which has about 50 words longer than 3 letters, at a comfortable pace, took me 20 seconds. I know that reading aloud is often faster than speaking, since you don't have to stop to think, but this is not the case for all people, just as not all people can think properly while typing at full speed - even competent touch-typists.

    Yes - the correct answer to the "computers don't understand speech" problem is to be part of the 1% or so of the computer-using population who can touch-type original, sensible text at 120+ wpm. Unfortunately, wishing doesn't make it so.
  • Problem is, 15 cpm is a little slow for data input.

    dahdidahdidah
  • Many people here seem to be of the opinion that if speech recognition were perfected, it would end the hunt for the perfect interface. I disagree.

    If I'm sitting in my cubicle at work, I just can't see myself speaking out loud "Dear Honeybunch: Smoochie smoochie. Love your teddy bear", or "Mom, the doctor says I have cancer", or "My account number is 235655324". Even normal, nonprivate communication would become a burden, if everyone is speaking to their machines aloud all day long. Noise levels would become unbearable.

    The keyboard/mouse combo definitely isn't the ultimate interface, but voice isn't either. An argument could be made for thought-recognition, but I think we're a long way from that yet. For now, I'll stick to my keyboard and mouse.

  • I know - my palm has been 'Optimized for One-Finger Entry' for years...
    +++++
  • A long time. We don't know how the speech centers of the brain really work. We definitely don't have the ability to make the kind of electrode array needed to read the entire dataflow, and we lack the computational power to process that data in realtime (although that last is trivial compared to the first two).

    It is something being actively worked on with sensory prostheses, but in order to directly read cognitively signifcant signals, we're going to have to obtain a much better understanding of mental processing. You're going to see true direct input about the same time neuroscience solves the strong AI problem (give or take a few decades).

    At the current rate of knowledge increase, though, this should happen within the average Slashdotter's lifetime.

  • Perhaps a slightly modified Morse Code is in order. We can add some formatting characters and a couple of slight hacks to good ol' Morse's Code and we have a very easy to use interface for wearables that does not require the user to look at what they're typing.

    The use of a sticky key code can allow for character combinations. Uppercase and lowercase could be handled either contextually by the computer or through a modified capslock/shift combo code. For caps lock we use sticky key code + shift code, for shift key we use shift code (which by the nature of it's intended use should be defaulted to sticky)

    I can imagine now, people everywhere absent mindedly tapping out emails and writing down notes while walking down the street. The additional benefit of only needing to learn a few additional modified codes if you already know Morse Code (and *who* doesn't know Morse Code?) allows for users to adapt quickly to the interface as well as learn a useful (if albeit slightly modified) standard already in place.

    Dan O'Shea

    The Ghost of Samuel Morse looks kindly upon thee...
  • With this kind of keyboard, we'll be able to double the data entry across the industry.

    After several hundred years, we'll be hemispherical dual-use brained by evolution.

    Thanks Darwin!
  • *lol*

    I was going to say the same thing.

    The pr0n sites should be selling these keyboards on their sites promoting "faster web surfing" or some other marketing ploy.

    How long will it take a guys wife/girlfriend to figure out what the keyboard is for tho?

  • Oh yeah... it's perfect alright. $25 for the full-up round is a bit steep, IMHO. Once the 30-day demo runs out, it's gone.

    I'm hoping this discussion degenerates to a FITALY vs. QWERTY and DVORJAK flame war. [vbg].

  • I used this for the Palm, but I found graffiti to be faster and more accurate (particularly combined with TealScript to customize the glyphs).

    However, I was just thinking, this layout might make an excellent one-handed conventional keyboard for a PC. Just air-typing, it seems very natural; you'd probably need some kind of shift to do punctuation, though.

    Having a nine-month-old, sometimes a one-handed keyboard would come in VERY handy...
  • I wonder why nobody (at 2+) mentioned this to be absoluetly dependent on the english language. While qwerty has it's drawbacks, you can adapt it easily to any script using latin characters and not quite easily to any script using a similar alphabet. To use Fitaly with anything but English is stupid.
  • Been using fitaly on my Palm VII for about 2 months. I can type about 30-35 wpm, still slower than my qwerty keyboard speed, but much faster than qwerty-pen speed or graffti speed. The only real downfall of it is that you pretty much have to be looking at the screen to type. Graffti, for all its problems, can be used without looking. So I still use Graffti to take notes in meetings, but use Fitaly to write e-mails and the like.

    With the standard qwerty layout, not only do you have to look at the Palm, you have to often move your hand rather than just the pen. Fitaly puts all the keys within easy reach with minimum movement. You even get used to some of the more common letter combinations which can jack up your speed. This only makes sense, since qwerty was designed to put common letters on different hands (i.e., far away from each other) while fitaly was designed to center the most common letters.
    --
    "You despise me, don't you?"


  • Heh... You don't wanna know what "pico" means in Chili and a few other spanish-speaking countries... I can tell you it's a four letter word that starts with "d" and ends with "ick".. :-) .. It was quite amusing when my pretty good looking female teacher was asking me to use pico.. She never understood why I could't stop gigglin'... (No, she didn't speak spanish...)

    Thank you.
    //Frisco
    --

  • people are pretty accustomed to just doing whatever it is they want to do (no matter how slowly), that they may resent being forced to learn a new keyboard

    If this was for normal operations, I would agree. But this is for Palms and other such small computers. In that situation, you really need an input optimized for one-finger/pen typing. I think that if people are willing to put up with the quirks of Graffiti, they will put up with this.

    So I wonder what kind of a speed increase this scheme really offers. Finally, what is wrong with the graffiti system built into current Palm Pilots

    Speed apears to be about 50 WPM for most people. That even goes for people who have trubble typing on a QWERTY.

    As for Graffiti, well, I've had a Handspring Visor for about two months now and I just can't get used to it. I can form letters fine, but its not very fast or acurate. I get 15-30 WPM on Graffiti, but about 55 on a QWERTY. This will improve with time, I know, but I look at this and ask myself why I should bother. If I could enter stuff into my Visor faster it would be of much more use to me.


    ------

  • I don't see any number keys - also I assume you are typing IN ALL CAPS. (Yaay, go AOL). Also no special symbols like +, *, ", etc. I could imagine all of this getting pretty hard to live without.
  • A good typist can type faster than he can speak.


    Uh, no. Not unless you talk real slow. Typical speech is around 150-180 words per minute but a good typist rarely gets above 100 words per minute. That's why stenographers use special shorthand or special machines to up the speed when taking dictation in real time.

  • It looks quite nice but it's no damn use for my PSION is it..? HCI has tinkered along in the past, with no dire need for innovation in terms of input. It's only recently that the industry has really kicked off, so I expect a lot more cool things to come. Graffiti is smart, but I still find it a little too slow, compared to mini-keyboads.

    For me though, the coolest has to be Thumbcode [stanford.edu], developed over in Stanford University. [stanford.edu] There's an old (April 99) New York Times story here. [nytimes.com]

    Read about it, but basically it's a glove/keyboard with receptors/keys on each segment of your finger, palm up, forming a 3x4 keyboard. One "types" by touching a finger segment with your thumb. Depending on whether the four fingers are together or apart, we end up with a 96-character keyboard. The nice thing is it's completely device independent so I could plug my 'thumbboard' into whatever device I wanted. I think one of the wearable manufacturers have produced a working model, but I haven't been able to find a page about it.

    As a pianist, I reckon the fingers can be trained quite quickly to produce respectable wpm times. What I like most about it though, is it's really the first miniature input device that doesn't require you to hunch over squinting while you try to type in your shopping list... I also think it's very natural, so I'm looking forward to a production model someday.

    "A goldfish was his muse, eternally amused"


  • Most chording keyboards (including the Twiddler) are seriously slow, and have a fairly steep learning curve. A researcher in Canada came up with a nifty one-handed keyboard system called Half Qwerty [half-qwerty.com], which is nearly as fast as regular Qwerty and has almost zero learning curve. It leverages your existing skill at typing Qwerty combined with the fact that your hands are mirror images of one another.

    There's a patch to the Linux keyboard driver [foo.net] which implements it on top of a regular Qwerty keyboard.

    Enjoy,
    Div.

    But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
  • I prefer the idea of the Quinkey chording keyboard, which has been around since the mid 80s at least, where each finger (or thumb) stays on one of 5 home keys, and input depends on chords. I've never bothered to learn such a thing...
    Well, that's the problem, isn't it? With a one-key-per-letter keyboard - fitaly, qwerty or whatever - you can take a new user and let them hunt and peck, so the system is usable (even if slowly) by a novice. How do you hunt-and-peck on a chording keyboard?

    The learning curve is just too steep for average casual users.

  • You're going to see true direct input about the same time neuroscience solves the strong AI problem (give or take a few decades).
    Actually, a very primitive direct input system already exists [gcal.ac.uk]. Electrodes were implanted into the brain of a man who had been totally paralyzed by stroke, and allowed him to move a cursor to select messages from a list. It doesn't use the speech centers, though; motor impulses are used to control it.

    For most of us, I suspect some sort of combination of subvocalization pickup, EEG reading (for selection - a "that's it!" event, as per a previous /. story), and eyeglasses-like heads-up display with pupil tracking will eventually be the norm for wearable computing. It'll be a long time before implants are used as input devices by the mainstream of people.

  • The thing that I like better about graffitti, though, is that I can do it reasonably accurately without looking at all towards the device, so I can take notes while continuing to watch the speaker, or enjoy the view while writing. Does your aim get sufficiently good that you don't need to look to type?

    I'm getting there. I can use the FitalyStamp in the dark, at least. At this point I don't have to stare at the FitalyStamp, just glance quickly to keep my bearings every few letters, which I had to do w/ grafitti anyhow to mak supe I,m wpiting tbe right letters. ;)

    -Isaac

  • <i>I don't see any number keys - also I assume you are typing IN ALL CAPS. (Yaay, go AOL).</i>

    Bad assumption. :-) A normal tap is lowercase; a 'slide' is upper case (i.e. when you start on the letter's square, slide the stylus, and lift not on the square). It's a VERY quick way of getting mixed case; absolutely no need for shift.

    Number keys are right there, on the right. I have no idea how you could miss them. Shift-number gives you a few symbols, and the rest are available by tapping one of four buttons which pops up a replacement keyboard picture (you can tap on the picture or on the Fitaly to get the symbol).

    I'm quite happy with the result; it is indeed far faster with Fitaly than it was without. I have to say that I'd like to replace at least one of the auxilary keyboard modes with my own custom one (with my commonly used symbols).

    -Billy

  • Re:One-Handed Reading (Score:3)

    by Syberghost ( 10557 ) <.syberghost. .at. .syberghost.com.> on Thursday July 06, 2000 @01:19PM (#953956)
    You could use sticky keys to enter ctrl-alt-combinations..

    You keep doing all that one-handed typing, and you're gonna have sticky keys...

    --
  • This layout, like other 'optimal' keyboard layouts, is tuned for normal English text. While I doubt that anyone is going to do some heavy-duty programming with a pen, I'd be interested to see whether any keyboard layouts have ever been optimized for computer languages like C++. Not only are relatively rare letters like xyzijk more likely to show up in variable names, but symbols are much more common than they are in normal text, yet few of them are unshifted keystrokes on a normal keyboard, and not even the most useful ones at that.

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