Helix Code Profiled in Boston Globe 158
bluebomber writes "The Boston Globe profiled Helix Code this morning on the front page of the business section. Here's the online version." Interesting tidbits: 250,000 copies of helix gnome downloaded so far. Also talks about how Helix hopes to make money.
This is great. (Score:1)
EHA
gnome vs helix gnome (Score:1)
Re:This is great. (Score:2)
Can mass corporate acceptance be far behind?
Two great things coming out of Helix (Score:5)
Helix is doing two great things from what I can tell here. The first, and one that most people will see, is that they are producing a product (or at least helping produce a product) that is doing good for the whole community, or for any computer user actually -- assuming they will eventually use the product, or indirectly through competition. Even though Gnome isn't completely their baby, they are doing alot work for it.
The second thing that I see them doing, which is perhaps more important, is offering another example of the open source buisiness model. They are producing something open source and giving it away for free, yet they have a model for making money, which attracts investors. If they succeed this does nothing but give credibility to open source as a viable option for buisinesses and start ups. If they fail, this could have some repercusions, but then again, its not going to hurt open sources look to the buisiness world.
Helix Code Rocks (Score:3)
I headed over, saw one screen shot, and thought it was the coolest looking thing I had seen. So I grabbed it. Then I grabbed it for my other boxen.
The thing is slick. It correctly shuts down the LCD on my laptop when the screen saver kicks in - unlike KDE which just turns the screen black but does not turn off the backlight. It has not crashed once on me. It comes with gnapster, which totally rocks. And it has the coolest install/updating method in existance.
I love it.
Owning a share (Score:1)
hehe.
I should have about 1000 of those downloads. The ftp site burped on me quite a few times. It was probably the connection between us.
It's great to see them getting some coverage in the Globe.
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:1)
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media is so dumb (Score:2)
Now how long has X been around? How long have window managers been there? How long have window managers had icons? Anyone remember fvwm95?
Friedman says "There's nothing new about any of this technology," - and he's right.
wish
Vote for freedom! [harrybrowne2000.org]
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30 million a quarter??? (Score:3)
I certainly hope they succeed though. HelixCode Gnome sure has impressed me. Maybe with any luck these big guys will license Helix Gnome for thier boxs. (maybe that's how they might reach 30 mil)
Great publicity (Score:1)
Remember, publicity=numbers.
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
hey! the text inteface isn't drab (Score:2)
masks the drab, complex text interface of Linux with rich and colorful images [...]
Pssh. Obviously they've never heard of bashprompt [current.nu].
(Actually, also an example of why complex is good too.)
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Screenshots: (Score:2)
You are a unique individual...just like everyone else.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Mainstream Press (Score:2)
LinuxWorld Demos (Score:3)
The new installer is very nice. True point and click app install. While not to everyone's liking, I'm sure it will help a lot of new users. They also gave out cool shirts and some stuffed Helix monkeys.
Similar but not Congruent (Score:1)
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:1)
Tarballs (Score:1)
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then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Stars in piles (Score:1)
Also, when Richard M. Stallman [a.k.a. RMS], on behalf the Free Software Foundation, received the Linus Torvalds Award (25,000 USD) he said: "Giving the Linus Torvalds Award to the Free Software Foundation is a bit like giving the Han Solo Award to the Rebel Alliance".
See a more recent interview at http://www.upside.com/Open_Season/39a2aea70.html
First, I didn't really get what he meant. I was never a big StarWars fan, and had thought Han Solo (played by Harrison Ford) was a good guy. Anyhow, I check up Han Solo on one of the dedicated(!) Han Solo fansites. Here is what I read:
=============================
Most people, when they think of Han Solo, would describe him to be a "complete scoundrel", and true, this is what Leia calls him, and he says he likes "the sound of that". In A New Hope, we get the impression that he is "quite a mercenary", as Leia describes him, as he says "I ain't in it for your revolution...I'm in it for the money..." but then, the infamous rogue turns out to have a heart of gold when he returns to help Luke destory the Death Star.
In the past, Bria Tharen has described him to be "the ultimate pragmatist", and Han says: "I'm a simple guy" and "I ain't dumb, I know that I never pretended to be a philosopher or something". Han is good at self preservation...in the original, unaltered Star Wars trilogy, Han Solo kills Greedo in a kind of shoot-first ask questions later way. This portrays him to be a cold-blooded killer, although he did what he did for self-preservation. In Han Solo Trilogy: The Hutt Gambit, Han is said to hate killing people. Perhaps this is why, in the Special Edition Star Wars Trilogy, it is Greedo who shoots first. But I guess this *does* still show his self-preservation, although he is not portrayed as the cold-blooded killer.
Overall, Han is, despite appearing cocky and overconfident, really sensitive underneath. Its just a damn shame that he is portayed as being "respectable" in the post Return of the Jedi books by Bantham. Paul Honeyford, author of Harrison Ford: A biography refers to Han by saying: "And anyone who falls in love with a princess has to be a total square". Watch out Honeyford... there are a lot of angry Solo-ists on your tail now!
=======================================
Whaddya think... "the ultimate pragmatist" I think RMS' had planned that remark well.
Anyhow, stop these sandpile wars!
Serviceware (Score:1)
Oh yeah, don't you just love the shop button on netscape and all the crap in the bookmarks? Looks like gnome desktop will start to remind the deja [deja.com] portal slowly...
Re:media is so dumb (Score:1)
I do :-P
I always thought all the different fvwm-like window managers were really really *really* confusing... I mean, fvwm, fvwm2, fvwm95, AnotherLevel, blah blah blah... tiring to figure out which one is which, and about 100 different initialization scripts that startx runs... ugh. nightmare.
Re:Make Money? (Score:2)
It sounds like they want to be a combination of portal and information pusher (remember Pointcast?). I think if they can get almost all free information, plus some exclusive information, assembled in one point they can succeed. If I want to know when Courtney Love is coming to town (per the article) I can check hole.com [hole.com]. However, if they want to tell me that Courtney Love is coming to town on the 17th, I have no plans that evening (according to Evolution [helixcode.com]), I have enough in my bank account (according to Gnucash [gnucash.org]) to buy a ticket from TicketMaster [ticketmaster.com], and it was all done on my box so their server didn't have to know any of that stuff, that might be useful.
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gpl nonsense (Score:2)
How much more "news"?? (Score:1)
Whatever happened to... (Score:2)
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IMHO... (Score:3)
IMHO, the publicity of GNOME and Helix could lead to a maintaining (or even an increase) in the rate of growth of Linux, currently standing at about 100% per year.
This still hasn't varied significantly, for many years now, which prompts me to repeat my prediction that Linux will overtake all versions of Windows combined as the most popular platform within 4-5 years.
In the end, it's the growth in Linux that'll make or break GNOME, Helix, KDE or any other Linux project. People burn out, die, develop new interests, etc. New blood fuels Open Source. Without that, the Open Source movement will die, in time.
By boosting interest, publicity and quality, GNOME may get that new blood in. And, with the hostility between KDE and GNOME fading (finally! - did Tux knock sense into them?), we might see code borrowing and idea exchange - the very essence of the Bazaar model.
Re:Mainstream Press (Score:2)
Yay! We're just like windows! (Score:2)
Yay!
We are just like windows now!
I stopped reading the article right there.
BTE: I think HELIX is great, and it will shake up the other linux desktop solutions
Good Article (Score:1)
The tie-in for Gnome to all these services sounds wonderful, but, really for 0.25 million people, is anyone seriously thinking they can put up servers and make this kind of money off this group?
It's a great idea and I fully expect Redmond Trolls to rip it off as soon as possible. I hope someone's got some patents to stave off the Bill-beast.
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
Re:media is so dumb (Score:2)
Re:Linux snobs (Score:2)
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:3)
helixcode, which hasn't been around so long, is a distribution of gnome (much like redhat is a distro of gnu/linux) so it bundles up the desktop, libraries, tool kit, apps etc. etc. checks for dependencies and then offers you a nice gui based update mechanism to make your life *so* much easier... (refer www.helixcode.com [helixcode.com])
tell me, when was the last time you checked what updates were available for your distro / desktop ??
HTH
marty
[OT] deja portal (Score:1)
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Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:2)
$30 million in 2002!! (Score:1)
Oh but wait. They have an idea for getting people to subscribe to a "service." Then they will be rolling in the dough. Riiiiiiight....
The Helixcode Business Model (Score:5)
Friedman says. ''We hope to make no money off the software.''
It's a great statement. It runs so counter to the current software industry that I couldn't resist quoting it. But it is a sign of the changing world model for IT business. Even here at IBM, that amount of money made from software and hardware is starting to be dwarfed by the income generated by the Services sector, and that seems to be where Helix Gnome is heading.
I used to have the impression that there would be some sort of subscription service to use Helix Gnomes update features or some integrated help-desk type solution. Reading this article seems to suggest a different path - it looks like the revenue stream that Helixcode is aiming for (they are a company after all) is based around providing a convenient integration layer between the user and whatever business out there exists trying to sell the user something, be it technical support, event tickets, book sellers or whatever. Handled right, this could be a fairly amazing utility - imagine planning a holiday trip by selecting the dates in your calendar and then calling up a travel planner which integrates buying plane tickets for the right days, booking hotels in the destination cities using advance search tools and having all that information written back into your electronic diary, along with maybe even collating responding emails from booked events as links. Then click the "Print Itinery" and get the complete information at the touch of a button (working printer not withstanding :-) ).
Why is this important? This is the sort of integration that MS's .NET project dreams about - complete integration of the available technology to make handling information more integrated and easier to access. Having an alternative to this underway NOW strikes me as of critical importance as Linux works its way onto more and more people's computers in order to prevent the .NET integration turning the commercial internet into a closed-off MS-only zone. We already see the spread of IE-only sites - I don't want a balkanized internet.
And if you don't want all those services, Helix Codes' extremely well organised and structured Gnome distribution will still be for free, complete with source code. So we can have the best of both worlds.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Re:Tarballs (Score:1)
Re:Whatever happened to... (Score:2)
There are still some things I don't like, but those are the funky way the UI works, not performance issues.
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:4)
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Re:Linux snobs (Score:2)
PS> If you include compatibility layers, then you can consider Linux and FreeBSD the same OS because FreeBSD can run Linux apps using a compatibility library.
Re:It will fail... (Score:1)
Helix Gnome includes an update program much like that in Windows, and does it in a way that encourages its users to check for updates regularly. This process gives the Helix Code Inc. an opportunity each and every time to try and sell the user something. An example given was to have an offer for a program that would tell you when (insert your favorite actor/band/etc) was in town, and add it to your schedule so you know. Such a service some fanatics would easily pay $5 a month for the announcements, while the software of course would still be free.
Re:Whatever happened to... (Score:1)
www.valinux.com [valinux.com] is what...
marty
Re:media is so dumb (Score:4)
Round II of that is starting now, with all the hype about the Gnome object model. Miguel says code should be reusable! Eazel embeds an MP3 player in a file browser! What will they think of next!?!
Hello, this is 1990's stuff! Nextstep, Microsoft and Be have been doing this stuff for years, and KDE is delivering it to the Linux desktop today. But in the Slashdot universe, nothing exists until it's in Gnome.
I can sort of understand when Microsoft does this stuff. They're in it for the money. But in free software, where the currency is recognition and respect, failing to give credit seems like outright theft. I'm not saying that the Gnome developers should preface every sentence with "Of course, XXX did this first." -- just that they should stop giving the impression that they innovated everything under the sun.
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Is it just me? (Score:1)
Is this the brave new gnome world?
Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:1)
Posing an argument like that is silly because 3D is graphics. Text processing is text. Pushing a GUI on a text processor might give the illusion that a GUI is superior (since it can encapsulate a text-based paradigm inside it), but it becomes silly when you realize how you have to redesign the whole tire factory, not just the wheel. If you're assuming this guy is trying to push "text tools for everything!", ignore either his naivety or yours and don't feed the fire :)
Re:It will fail... (Score:1)
Helixcode looks good but... (Score:2)
Something that's designed completely different from the ground up, something that incorporates real cutting-edge concepts that have incredible usability and makes everything I do as a programmer/sysadmin/enduser efficient and powerful. Is it possible to have a user interface that's both powerful like bash yet still slick looking and built on modern computer concepts like OO? I have been thinking about this issue for quite a long time now yet it is really hard to think outside of the box that is the GUI we have today.
One thing I have been pondering about is windows. Really, why do we need windows on a GUI? I can understand if it was a CAD program for example because you need to look at different views at once or something like that; but for day to day tasks I have always thought that the concept of "virtual consoles"(Ctrl+F1-6) is far more powerful and intuitive. Personally 99% of the time when I have multiple programs running at the same time, I never look outside the focused window I am using anyways, and when I want to switch between them I almost never use the mouse to select them. Instead I use the hotkey combo I have set up, which now I think of is really just a emulation of virtual consoles!!
That bring me to another thing about modern GUI: the mouse. I really really hate that thing. Like hate it with a passion. It is just not a very good designed piece of hardware in my opinion. And I don't think it's because I am a fast typer; I have seen my mom(who has no computer experience whatsoever) struggle with the mouse, and my conclusion is people who are afraid of the keyboard are even more afraid of the little rolly thing that controls that tiny cursor which always seem to move either too fast or too slow. And there seems to be a trend toward abandoning the keyboard even in the Open Source world recently. I don't understand it. Why can't there be a GUI that will still be 100% functional even when you unplug that damn rodent from your desktop without turning into Emac?
Anyways previewing this post I realize it has gone way off topic, but just something to think about. Maybe I should just stop complaining and start coding ;)....
Spam Ware... (Score:1)
Some greedy jerk will turn this into a push system one day. No, thanks.
Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:1)
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:2)
Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-update (Score:4)
I'm planning a large rollout of Helix at a University, and frankly, I'm not impressed. Where do I find a complete list of updates? Where might I find those rpm files? Where is the helix-updater database located? Why is it separate from rpm? Why do I need yet another package manager???
I want scriptable tools so that I can maintain consistency across a large number of workstations. I don't need a cute GUI updater, and I DON'T want to force my userbase to manage this stuff by hand.
Re:Whatever happened to... (Score:2)
Yeah, Mandrake and Raster wound up playing David Lee Roth to Gnome's Van Halen. Remember how Slashdot used to cover their every move? Celebrity is so fleeting...
I get a kick out of how the Slashbots who used to declare that Gnome 1.0 was the best thing ever because of Enlightenment now are saying, "Well, 1.0 sucked but that was all E's fault." You ever get the impression that "the best" == Whatever Red Hat installs by default ?
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An interesting situation (Score:2)
In comparison to KDE 1.x and the soon-to-be released KDE 2, I believe Gnome has a much better look-and-feel. The look, in particular, is very professionally done, reminding me of Irix and the MacOS. However, I find that programatically I prefer the KDE APIs over the Gnome APIs. There is nothing wrong with QT, C++, or OO design and programming in general.
It is interesting to me that Motif/X/CDE gave us a butt-ugly UI and API. Now Gnome and KDE have split that 'paradigm', with Gnome giving us a very good UI and a merely ugly API, while KDE gives us a merely ugly UI and a very good API.
And finally, on the support of various Unixes, it would be nice if a Gnome package for OpenBSD were there along with the others. If Helix Code can support Solaris, then perhaps they could support OpenBSD and ship that as well.
$30M per quarter? (Score:2)
Until that happens, though, Helix code isn't going to make much money. I know plenty of free software users who rejoice in the freedom from market-spin and consumerism that seems so abundant in the popular desktop OS of today.
Using technology used to be so simple. Now when we install a program or use a browser we have to deal with sales pitch, banner adds, gimmicks and tickers. We are presented with every possible opportunity to buy, buy, buy. Some of us just want to use our PC.
I find this akin to the various free Internet providers out there. They provide the access in hopes that the end user will eventually be interested by some of the constant ads.
Not that I think this is wrong, I just don't see the current Linux community buying it. Helix needs a new sort of Linux user before they get their millions. They need people who are more interested in using their PC as a consumer's tool rather than as an intellectual tool.
Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:4)
If it was not for me installing Helix I would not even know that gnapster existed.
I also did not say that Helix was a better gnome. I said I liked the way it ran compared to KDE but that is more of an eye candy issue. Helix just looks better. The icons on the desktop are smooth around the edges and they just look professional - not like some of the icons in KDE that, to be honest, look like something you would find on a website of an AOLer. (KDE 2.0 has much better icons than they did in the 1.x series, so I know they are working on it and it is really looking sharp!)
I used Enlightenment about a year ago and found it to be very slow and CPU intensive. I did try it about 2 weeks ago and was impressed that it had progressed so much. It is really looking sharp. However, the themes that I have installed are not all that whoopie to me and I find the UI to just be kind of hard to use. That is me. I happen to like the general layout of Windows 9x - that is, with a panel at the bottom, a system tray, and icons on the desktop. KDE and Helix both have that in the themes they come with.
And yes, it is all eye candy no matter what you use. So?
Part of using anything is to have something nice to look at that stimulates the senses. People buy cars based on looks. People look through telescopes to see pretty things in the sky. Does that therefore mean that nothing can be learned while doing so? Hell no. So why is or should the UI I am using any different?
what about abi word? (Score:2)
am i the only person who noticed that the helix gnome office does not include abi word anymore? see helix's webpage if you dont believe me. they even say that their next project will be a word processor for gnome (!!!!).
i am all up for this foundation thing but what will happen if someone decides to do a nifty spreadsheet or mailer? will they still get included in gnome even though there is a *default* one?? the foundation will watch over us but who will watch them, an unspecified number of "gnome hackers"?
i know gnome will kick (even more) arse and i think the gpl will protects us from almost all evil - but lets get this small issues clear before taking the jump, heh? better to be safe...
soup
Re:This is great. (Score:2)
Dude, Evolution doesn't just look like outlook, its as if they have taken screenshots of outlook, and then made them work.
This is a Good Thing(tm), I use outlook everyday at work, and it is actually pretty good. But Evolution will be better because it will be easier to script with, plug things into etc etc.
I seem to recall that the people who coded Gnumeric open admitted that they copied the interface directly from Excel.
Because lets face it, some MS apps are actually pretty good, untill they fail, and then they suck. But in terms of UI, they mostly have it right, so why re-invent the wheel?
Slackware (Score:2)
It isn't that hard to work with slackware. Honestly, all the installer needs to do is suck down tarballs (or even RPMs, since that comes with slackware, too), and untar them! It's easy! Viva la Slackware!
Re:30 million a quarter??? (Score:2)
Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:2)
It wouldn't be hard to write a script that then noticed the new packages and installed them on all your machines.
The rsync URL I use is :
rsync://www.helixcode.com/http/distributions/Re
Re:This is great. (Score:2)
If Gnumeric looks just like Excel, and Evolution like Outlook, can a lawsuit be far behind?
Re:Linux snobs (Score:2)
And the whole compatibility layer comment is bullshit. Show me how to run mysql without a threads library. Show me how to run any X app without the X libraries. Does that mean they are compatility libraries? No, certain apps rely on certain libraries to run. To run a Gnome app you need the Gnome libraries, to run a KDE app you need the KDE libraries (or statically link either and that goes away). Either way, you can run Gnome apps under KDE and KDE apps under Gnome without any problems, assuming you have the libraries that they require installed.
Your FreeBSD comment falls apart under the same logic. FreeBSD has a linux loader/executor. But, linux apps need glibc and company to run. They aren't compatibility libaries, they are just the standard libraries an app needs to run cause that's how their author ran them.
If you really want to give a good example, Wine is a compatibility library. Now, do you want to say that Windows and Linux are the same OS with linux running Wine?
Re:How much more "news"?? (Score:4)
This is raising the hackles of some in the Qt/KDE camp. Most notably TrollTech, with their infantile comments on the Qt Developer page, and Matthias Ettrich, with his off the mark comments in a recent interview. This is a shame, because both projects should benefit from each others publicity. As long as both projects are producing great things, then people will want to use them both, if only to be different. Perhaps this is the only benefit of the `tribalism' that often surrounds software. The BSD's benefit because they're seen as a different `tribe' to Linux, and the same happens with KDE and GNOME. In the long run, they each feed of off the popularity of the other.
Chris
Re:Is it just me? (Score:2)
So don't use their software. KDE isn't going away anytime soon, and, there will still likely still be a "pure" GNOME distribution out there, maybe something controlled or sponsored by the GNOME Consortium.
Or, better yet, since it's all GPLed, pull out the offending modules and make a "Helix-free" GNOME distribution. In the article Nat Friedman says that the software itself is a commodity and unimportant to their business model.
Jay (=
Re:media is so dumb (Score:2)
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Re:This is great. (Score:2)
They're close, yes, but not that close.
Lame revenue model (Score:2)
IMHO, this is pretty iffy. Sounds a lot like web banners if you ask me. (Yeah, I know, you didn't ask me.) Also, it depends on people needing to spend a lot of time on system maintenance downloading and installing updates, like Windows. The problem with that is that Open Source software tends to eventually get pretty well debugged. What are the Helix guys going to do when their code finally works? Why will people keep coming back for more ads?
I'm pretty sceptical that Helix's investors are going to get their money back. I hope they have some other tricks up their sleeves as part of their "open source business model", because the revenue sources that were mentioned in the article, aren't going to work. Good luck, Miguel, you're going to need it.
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Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:3)
I'm afraid this just isn't true. The current updater uses the rpm database alone, and the next generation updater we demoed at LWE uses either your rpm database or the
If you need technical assistance, please send mail to spidermonkey@helixcode.com.
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Ian Peters
Re:what about abi word? (Score:2)
As far as your comments regarding the Gnome Foundation go, I would encourage you to read the Draft Charter [decrem.com]. There's a lot of good stuff in there. It's heavily modeled on the Apache Foundation. The Foundation isn't just a bunch of companies dictating policy. In fact, that's precisely what it isn't. I, for one, happen to be a member of the Gnome Foundation, and I have contributed relatively little. They're very open to letting contributors be voting members, and very opposed to the Foundation being dictated by corporate policy. I'll give you some quotations from the charter to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
In almost every sense of the word, GNOME is an open project. This is one of our greatest strengths, has always been, and should be the balefire by which we plot our course into the future.
The foundation should not be exclusionary or elitist. Every GNOME contributor, however small his or her contribution, must have the opportunity to participate in determining the direction and actions of the project.
The openness of GNOME has always been a point of pride for us, and an important characteristic which distinguishes us from many of the other open source projects out there. Anyone can become a contributor, write access to our CVS does not involve trial by fire or other masonic rituals, we don't use Access Control Lists, and we've always been exceedingly good about folding talented newcomers in our arms and welcoming them to the project. No resume required.
Participation in the foundation is intended only for those people who are responsible for actual contributions to the software which makes up GNOME. A corporation, organization or individual should not be granted a place in the foundation unless its presence is justified by the merits of its contribution. Money cannot buy influence in the GNOME project: show us the code (or documentation, or translations, or leadership, or webmastering...).
The foundation must act in the best interests of GNOME, independent of influence from outside organizations and corporations. No single entity should have the ability to direct GNOME to its own ends.
I hope some of this helps...
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Re:Whatever happened to... (Score:2)
--Ben
Re:Helixcode looks good but... (Score:2)
It's a combination of bash and sexy graphics which is what you seem to want.
--Ben
Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:2)
itp: Thank you for your quick response to my post. If there is no secondary database for helix-update, then I ask: how is it that helix-update tool doesn't know if one manually installs a helix update via rpm? I've tried this and then run helix-update to find that the updater doesn't recognize that my previous install with rpm just occurred, and then blindly presents the update as one among the list of available packages. If selected, the updater will then download the package and attempt to install it again. This suggests to me that helix-update is keeping track of what packages it downloads in a separate database from rpm (even though it downloads rpm files and installs them through the rpm tool). I recognize that I may be factually incorrect about this assumption, so please inform me and everyone else how the updater works with written documentation published on your web site.
Second: Where do I download current updates? I notice that not all the mirror sites are in sync with Helix's Akamai site. I'd like to know a URL for exactly where to download current rpm files for helix packages.
I don't expect Helix to write my tool, if that's not in your business model. I DO expect Helix to provide adequate documentation so that I can easily write this tool.
Re:one more great thing comes out of helix (Score:2)
For offical stable releases, KDE almost always has KDE PowerPC RedHat packages at the time of the offical release. Debian, on the other hand -- well the packages alienate fairly well :)
Many PowerPC users use KDE, if you don't believe me, stop into irc.kde.org's KDE development channel - #kde, you will see several PowerPC Linux users.
Nobody is currently making up cvs-snapshots of KDE 2.0 right now, mainly because it takes alot of time and effort to do so, and nobody exactly wants to bother.
Don't worry, I can almost assure you that there will be PowerPC binaries on the offical day of the KDE 2.0 release.
Ian Gerser had made up ppc.rpm for 1.91 soon after the release, he never did get 1.92 up, but he may do 1.93 packages (I don't know).
At any rate, KDE 2.0 is near, doing beta snapshots all of the time is almost a waste of effort.
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:2)
actually, my wifes computer crashed, and mine was in dire need of some new parts, so i had to comprimise with her... ....damnable windows box... since she can't play her games under linux.....soon though...oh yes...very soon i will have my linux box back....
erm...sorry bout that. Little bit of frustration surfacing.
I Will definatly be checking out Helix then very soon as well...but first I have to get a linux box up again.
Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:5)
The new updater we're currently finishing up, Red Carpet, takes care of this calculating full tree dependencies for packages, making it a full package management tool. In addition, we plan to add features to support your type of situation, namely, a single person managing a large number of machines which should be kept in sync.
If you're looking for our files, check out our ftp site (ftp.helixcode.com), which contains packages for all the distributions we support (this is where akamai comes to get them), along with the xml metafiles we use to describe them. If you're not already, subscribe to the updates@helixcode.com mailing list, which is where we post a message any time we push new updates.
I'd also like to ask you to subscribe and contribute to the spidermonkey@helixcode.com list. Getting GNOME onto as many systems as possible is the core of our business model, and we'd always like to hear feedback from our users about how we can make that process easier.
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Ian Peters
Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:2)
cd ~/helixa t-6 .
rsync -vau --exclude="*.src.rpm" rsync://www.helixcode.com/http/distributions/RedH
rpm -Fvh *.rpm
Seems to work well for me...
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Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:2)
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Linux is not pretty? (Score:2)
I may be an idiot but I always thought KDE looked just as good as Windows.
Re:Linux snobs (Score:2)
Slightly off-topic kde news... (Score:2)
There is also a nice bit of flame war starting journalism about the whole thing available here [linuxplanet.com]. Interesting reading...
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:2)
Re:LinuxWorld Demos (Score:2)
Luke of WINE fame is working on REing Exchange Server format right now, so it may end up supporting Exchange server in about a month or so, as opposed to version 1.0
Tom M.
TomM@pentstar.com
Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:2)
PS> What the hell are you doing calling 3D Studio "limited?"
Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:2)
Re:KDE is dying (Score:2)
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Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:2)
Unusually clueful for mainstream media (Score:2)
- It remembers to mention that other projects are doing the same thing (kde)
- It mentions that Qt was semi-closed when GNOME started, but has since gone open source
- It even credits GNU as the beginning of the free software movement, not Linux
Details like these are often missed by mainstream media.--
Re:Unusually clueful for mainstream media (Score:2)
People were distributing free software ever since the begining of computers. Larry Wall distributing patch, BSD distributing a set of patches for Unix, and even "here's your rk05, love Dennis", all preceed GNU by years.
Re:Helix Code Rocks (Score:2)
Re:What about the little guy? (Score:2)
Either the little guy offers services like Helix and MS, or he doesn't, which means he's not offering the best value. This is going to happen with or without Helix. Either MS gets the whole market, or it gets split between MS, Helix, and whoever else manages to come up with something good. With Gnome and KDE being open source, Helix and MS could very well get a another competitor or three. If there's money in it, they probably will.
Additionally, the software isn't being given away free in the sense that IE5 is given away free. The source is available free as well. It's the services that will make the money. Whoever can provide the best services for the lowest cost will get the customers. This could very well lead to some serious fragmentation as each service provider tinkers with the software and offers their own updates. Unless the software is made to be completely independent of the service providers, we're likely heading down a bumpy road.
Re:The Helixcode Business Model (Score:2)
So Ticketmaster is making money off the phone company and their ISP?
Re:IMHO... (Score:2)
To quote an earlier post of mine:
That's what I thought - but apparantly, that's not true.
Although both projects are GPL'ed, Gnome can use KDE code (their html widget came from KDE 1.1), but KDE can't use Gnome code (the classic example is the threatened lawsuits over kgimp).
For more (admittedly one-sided and rather frustrated in tone) information, read this thread [kde.org] off of the KDE general mailing list.
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Evan
Re:LinuxWorld Demos (Score:2)
Re:Try managing hundreds of computers w/ helix-upd (Score:2)
Put it in your apt sources.list, and apt-get update/upgrade as usual, using all of Debian's tools.
Problem solved. *grin*
Re:Nothing new (Score:2)
Bill - aka taniwha
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Re:Slackware (Score:2)
For what it's worth, the Red Hat 6.2 RPMS seem to work fine with Slackware.
Yeah, but that perty GUI installer doesn't. And that's really all that we Slack users want anyway...
Unless I'm horribly mistaken. In which case, you should ignore everything that I say. But I know that I wanted the installer when I first heard about it... something like this occurred:
<friend> did you see the announcement about Helix GNOME and the spiffy installer?
<me> what?
<friend> some company called Helix has released a cool GUI installer for GNOME that takes care of dependencies and shit. it's pretty cool. works great on my RedHat box.
<me> awesome. I'll go check it out. (gui, eh?
I'm much happier now. (KDE2 betas compile VERY well on Slackware7.) And besides, I like PKGs and source better, and KDEs dependencies seem much more sane than GNOMEs any day of the week.
Re:gnome vs helix gnome (Score:3)
Just email Simon [mailto] and ask him for that tarball.
Concerns about services revenue (Score:2)
This is great for free software, but it's absolutely horrible for anybody interested in making Linux consumer-friendly. I don't think you can't have really happy users/customers and really successful support-revenue-based businesses. The two don't mix. There's clearly a conflict of interest (whether conscious or not) between making software really easy to use and expecting to make money from support. Personally, I would much rather pay for the software and have it work the first time, than have something break and have to invest the time/money looking at manuals, man pages, web sites or calling someone for help. Other than hard-core hackers, nobody really wants to have to read a manual. I know this concern isn't exactly new, but I don't think it's being taken seriously enough.
Why is this important? This is the sort of integration that MS's
But as has been prove time and time again, technology alone will not win the battle. The truth is Microsoft has essentially inifinite resources. It can use these resources to market to end users, setup exclusive partnerships, and essential buy its way into acceptance. This is how Microsoft works.
All these great ideas and technology, including those from Helix Code, will mean nothing if they can't get the message out to the appropriate people.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Re:Yet another distribution? Re:gnome vs helix gno (Score:2)
That's kind of like saying, "Why would I want a Linux distribution?" Now granted, it's a bit different. A Linux distribution does a lot for you that would be *very* difficult to do on your own if you were not experienced, such as installation, setting up the file system, etc. But the analogy is still a good one. A distribution bundles everything together nicely. You don't just get the applications in their default state as written by each individual developer. You get an integrated set of applications that work well together because they were customized and designed in that way. You also get a desktop environment that is well-tested. If you just upgrade individual packages, that's great, but they won't necessarily work well together. Helix Code does for Gnome, what Red Hat, Mandrake, Debian, et. al. do for the GNU/Linux operating system. Installation and upgrading is easy. You have a set of applications that have been tested to work well together and have been packaged accordingly, placed in one central location and "stamped," if you will, with company's seal of approval. Now, if that means nothing to you, then don't use it. But for a lot of users, this is a dream come true. All they have to do is run the simple installer and they have a complete desktop, development environment at their fingertips. When there are updates and bug fixes all they have to do is run the upgrade utility. All the applications are tested and set up so they are easy to find and launch. Bug Buddy is a click away to report problems they find with the system. As new appications become available, they don't have to go out searching high and low for them. Helix Code adds applications to their distribution regularly, improving the user experience.
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Re:Makes me chuckle... (Score:2)
One posibility is a photo editing ASP, you have your collection of pictures which you highlight and click the button to send them to an ASP that will perform certain filters and such on and then store them online so your grandparents can type in the URL and see Junior's first birthday party. Using a web based front end would work but if you could click a button on your desktop and have everything taken care of you'd be much more apt to use it. GNOME's design allows for this sort of networked object handling and can do a pretty good job of it. A small monthly service fee for a variety of performed services is a very successful business model, it has worked for AOL for years now making them billions of dollars.
Re:The Helixcode Business Model (Score:2)
I think you're making the two things (helix software and phone service) out to be more different than they really are in this case. The software is just a facilitation device for helix to deliver its services. You can use the software for free and never purchase a single service from them, and that's ok. So they really aren't making money on the software, but they do need to have a delivery method for services, which is the role that the software fills.