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New All-In-One Nokia 202

Posted by Hemos
blirp writes: "Nokia today anounced the new 9210 Communicator. " Just dual-band support, so it won't work in North America, but great standby and talk time, and just 244 grams in weight. Mmm...
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New All-In-One Nokia

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  • Additionally, the Nokia 9210 Communicator is the first Nokia product to support the most commonly used PC office applications - such as Windows - and the first with wireless Java support.

    Wow, I never realized that Windows was a PC office application.

    I guess it runs CE?
  • Try VoiceStream - they have national GSM coverage in the US, and my 8290 works quite well - I can SMS part of my team in Europe just fine from a ski-lift in Colorado. My company just bought 8890's for those who have to travel overseas a lot (both directions), and those work well too on VoiceStream's US network and in Hong Kong and London (so far).
  • "in the US we don't use GSM"

    Wrong - I use GSM every day. Its part of Voicestream's network - and they are upgrading my local area to GPRS next spring.
  • Well, part of the American-Canadian issue is that the American Tories fled to Canada after our rebellion--so there is a visceral feeling that Canadians are American traitors. One of the reasons, no doubt, for the War of 1812.

    We also tend to think of Canada and Mexico as satellite, client or buffer states of the USA. Their presence has protected us from South American and Russian petulance, while at the same time our presence has given them a measure of security and stability. Canada even uses a like-named unit of currency, and the Mexican peso uses the same symbol--the two countries even feel a lot like home when you visit them.

    I like Canada. It's clean. People are polite. They have a store called The Beer Store. I don't like their gun laws, their socialism or their metric system, but then I don't live there, so it doesn't affect me. Canada's a neat place, that's for certain.

    Canadian Bacon made fun of Americans more than Canadians. IIRC most of the cast were Canadian. I loved it.

  • Check out the DVD if you want to see Jenna Elfman get off on that fact. Heh.
  • Word! For real. And nokia is a company BASED IN FINLAND, so naturally it would be in their best interest to LAUNCH ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTS IN THE UNITED STATES. Wake up people!!!
  • GPS would not only be useful to track your position if you are lost - it also allows for applications that are sensitive to where you are at the moment. For example, when calling up railway timetables, it could allow you to select from a small list of stations nearby, rather than requiring you to type in (and possibly clarify) the place you'd like to be going from.

    Another example would be traffic reports automatically filtered down to the road and direction you're currently on.

    From a more abstract point, GPS (or similar location technologies) allow an application to be more aware of the meatspace context you're using it in, as opposed to just starting out by knowing you're "somewhere on this planet".

    For the paranoid, GPS built into the phone would potentially give you more control over when to allow a remove application access to your geographical location.
  • I am pissed off that I can't buy one of those cool phones [nokia.com] (Nokia 8110) from The Matrix. Why doesn't Nokia sell them?? I would imagine that LOTS of people want them.

    I'm going to start an armed insurrection.
  • Is this such a big deal then to be posted on /.?
    It's just an upgraded communicator for crying out loud. Some improvements, but nothin' extraordinary. In fact: if it hadn't all the features it has now, Nokia wouldn't be taken seriously.
  • KINDER EGGS ROCK poor poor poor Americans can't be trusted with a chocolate covered toy?
  • The nokia phones i've seen are pretty crappy too. Granted i haven't actually used the 82xx and they do look really cool in pictures and in charlie's angels, based on my real world experience (and perhaps the fact that i'm a motorola stockholder and a fan of iDEN over GSM) i'd choose motorola any day. I've had a motolola i1000plus for the past 6 months and its been incredible. believe it or not, WAP in the USA *IS* useful. I use it every day on my 1000plus to check email, get directions, news, weather and the occasion game (and yes sometimes even to check slashdot :-) ) its also got a builtin speaker phone which works great for handsfree in the. my only complaint is that its a tad larger than i'd like and it isn't dual mode. But if you love nokia, by all means go for it. choice is GOOD.
  • You could actually buy the 8110 for at least a year, even before The Matrix came out. Maybe not in the US, but certainly in Europe. If you are wanting pure "Matrix coolness factor" - i.e. don't care that the phone is really pretty crap - you might check out the 7110. The 8110 didn't actually have a spring-loaded number shield, however the 7110 does, along with WAP and Nokia's usual selection of games, ringtones, etc. If it hasn't already been released in the US it soon will be, probably under a different (71xx) two-last-digits moniker.
  • Okay, okay, you ring a bell and I answer without thinking about why I am standing up against the tiled wall. Good doggy, drool please...

    As I mentioned in another reply, the speakerphone didn't work out for me, plus I tend to do more equipment configuration than email. Part of that config work is web documentation and TFTP serving, so none of the handhelds have been a good fit so far. The HP came closest, but I might as well have been lugging around a laptop.

  • In the civilised world analog is dead. Defining "dual-mode" as something that can do both analog and digital is bit silly.
  • actually that's not true. we (the usa) have many *choices* when it comes to what protocol we wish to use for cellular. there's tdma, cdma, gsm, amps, and my favorite, iDEN, to name a few. choice is good, i (and many others) would rather have a free market come up with a standard (or standards) than to have a government (or quasi-government in the case of the EU) dictate which protocol we WILL use. i for one prefer iDEN over GSM having read several hundred pages on the workings of the protocols. different protocols have different strengths and weaknesses, i'd rather make my own decision weighing the factors that are most important to ME than be stuck with a protocol that may not be the best fit for me. it this means making sacrifices when it comes to coverage then so be it, but it doesn't have to.
  • Finally, after all these years of waiting, we find out what the root department is - Nokia cell phones! Maybe Slashdot is actually funded by a huge, evil conglomeration of cell phone companies? News at 11!
  • that's about the best derogatory name I've ever heard for a cellphone!



    I can just see it now:



    Brandon: "Beamer me up, Mr. Steve."

    Steve: "She's runnin' outta gas! She canna hold!"

    Brandon: "You'll have to pump some gas. It's our only hope."

    Steve: "Damnit Jim, I'm a yuppie, not a mechanic. I canna pump my own gas!"

  • That is not quite correct.

    1) Europe uses both 900 and 1800 MHz, the latter being the "newer" technology.

    2) GSM is available in the US (for example from Voicestream) in addition to CDMA and TDMA, but as other people have already stated operates at 1900 MHz. You can buy dual-band (900/1900 MHz) phones in the US for use at "home" and away.
  • Sorry for probably sounding stupid, but what does Australia use?

    I think we just use a single band GSM.

    D.
  • The entire world except for the USA uses GSM, whilst the USA thumbed its nose and opted for an inferior proprietary system (the excuse being that it needed the Clipper chip to eavesdrop on American citizens whereas GSM phones are secure).

    Similarly USA has decided to go its own way with 3rd generation mobile, digital TV, etc. The independant nature a decade ago of USA telecoms and broadcasting compared to the over-regulated European regulations has done a full turn. Now the cohesive nature of EU regulations compared to the divisive in-fighting and lobbying of self-interested American parties has meant the Europeans shooting ahead of America in terms of technology. Unless the US can pull together as a team I can't see them catching up any time soon.

    Phillip.
  • The next cell phone I will buy will have to be able to run a java KVM, because writing programs for cell phones is just the coolest. Especially if it has an IR port, then it just opens up so many possibilities. Remote controls for various things, games, and unlock your ( or someone else's) BMW if you got one that has inferred remote locks.


  • The "glued together" attitude also results in the fact that once GPRS [gsmworld.com] becomes available (in Europe, this will happen in just a few months), you can throw this 9210 brick into the ocean, as there is no support for it. It's better to have to dedicated devices so everything doesn't become obsolete at once.

  • Re:too bad (Score:4)

    by PTBarnum ( 233319 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:11PM (#608313)
    The 9210 works on Symbian's EPOC operating system, not WinCE. Nokia doesn't go out of their way to call attention to this, but they do mention EPOC on several pages.
  • I find it uber cool that they've got Java support with it. Not only does this mean that people can write their own software for it but it also means the phone can be used to do more practical things.

    For example, a telnet/ssh client? an IRC client? ICQ perhaps? Now there'll be NO escape from that "Uh Oh!" sound I'm already sick to death of hearing. I just want it to read Slashdot and make postings in case I ever need to go *outside* (not that anyone would do such a thing).

    How can such a device currently compete with the existing array of PDAs (both WinCE and PalmOS) and communicator-style phones such as the Accompli?

    Another thought - why is the USA GSM network so different? Why didn't they deploy the same standard everywhere? Does something in the USA already run on one of our frequencies? I always find it rather interesting that us Aussies seem to get our hands on newer phone technology than the USA does.

    ANd finally, the multi-million dollar question:

    How much does the sucker COST? If it's anything like the 9110, I'd rather an 8210 and a decent PDA. Guess it comes down to the fact that anybody can sell me anything that has an IRC client...
  • Weird all will have a follow up to "It's all abou the Pentiums" It will be called: "I did it all for the Nokia"
  • A couple of weeks ago the second largest mobile provider in Iceland launched its GPRS service.
  • Another silly decision to form a closed market. 900/1800 in Europe came first, and the US decided to go for 1900. You get what you ask for. Go figure...
  • You miss an important point. The USofA has 6 different standards for cellular/PCS systems (not to mention SMS and other land mobile standards). This means that our market is very fragmented and not the best target for high volume connectivity. Also, when you change your service you usually have to change your phone, so a big investment in a really fancy phone is not nearly as practical.

    I have a Dual-band Qualcomm phone that I used with Sprint. It is technically compatible with those used by Quest, but I had to buy a new phone when I switched to Quest because Sprint refused to release the security codes!

    This sort of behavior by US cellular vendors, in addition to the wide standards variance, is why the US way behind in wireless compared to Europe which has a unified (if inferior - TDMA) standard.

    The US standards are:

    800 MHZ Analog Cellular
    900 MHZ TDMA
    900 MHZ CDMA
    1900 MHZ TDMA
    1900 MHZ CDMA
    GSM (Global standard used in Europe)
  • From the Full Spec page it says it uses EPOC, not WinCE
  • Hi! Sure - the 9210 seems to have a lot of stuff that has so far been lacking from similar devices. But after having read most of the documentation on the device that Nokia has provided, and I'm pretty disappointed about two things: 1. It apparently doesn't support GPRS!! Ericsson (and other manufacturers) are planning to ship GPRS-devices by Q1 2001. Packet data has been mentioned as one of the MAIN contributors to the success of Imode in Japan, and GPRS (packet-based) network technology is expected to become widespread accross Europe at the beginning of next year. The mobile Internet community is displeased that Nokia has yet to announce a GPRS enabled device. 2. It is clinging to WAP version 1.1!!! As the apparent market leader we would expect Nokia to be in the forefront with respect to introducing products with WAP 1.2 functionality. The development community has been waiting for the possibilities associated with User Agent Profiling (UAProf), Wireless Telephony Applications Interface (WTAI) etc. Apparently we will have to wait some more :-(

  • The first Communicator, the 9000i, did not have many features, but did not crash as often as the 9110i which replaced it. My colleagues 9110i needed rebooting more often than a Windows machine (yes, it is possible), so I used the 9000i more.

    The 9210 with EPOC should hopefully be a more stable OS; certainly my Psion 5 hasn't crashed, but then I haven't really used it a great deal...

  • There are companies developing GPS-less solutions for positioning too. The idea is that GSM cells are fairly small, especially in cities, so by determining what cell (and possibly what cells has recently been used) a user is in you can also fairly well pin-point where that user is.

    The applications mentioned for this kind of stuff is emergency call support, taxi finding out where a caller really is, or keeping track of employees in the field.

    There are interesting privacy/security issues here though!

    Lars
    __
  • I've never tried this phone, but all Sagems I've seen to date really really suck. I've owned a Sagem, and it was so unintuitive it was disgusting. Various options and settings that I needed were hidden away in hard to find places and a lot of things that my current Nokia 3210 has it just didn't have. A friend of mine has one too, and it's regularly giving up on him. Besides, it's French.

    If you want to get a Real(tm) phone, get a Nokia. They have clean, simple interfaces and lots of neat features.

    Cheers...
  • I love it. If only it would play widescreen dvds or mpegs!
  • I what to be able to programme it so I can change TV channels and prgramme my VCR

  • Why does XXX appear in YYY first? (Score:3)

    by A nonymous Coward ( 7548 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @04:04PM (#608326)
    Here's a clue: everything has to appear somewhere first. Whether by milliseconds depending on which customer gets the smoothest credit card swipe, or years because the infrastructure works that way, it doesn't show up everywhere simultaneously.

    Let's suppose that the USofA has 90% of the manufacturing capacity in the world. Would that not mean that 10% is elsewhere? And -- guess what -- 10% of the products will show up somewhere other than in the USofA first!

    Why do you bitch and moan about "consumer devices" appearing elsewhere first? Did you bitch and moan that the first iOpener didn't appear in Europe first? Did you bitch and moan that Tivo and Replay(sp?) appeared in the USofA first? Are you going to bitch and moan when the first M$ X-box appears in the USofA first?

    Hmmmm.... didn't the first cell phones appear here anyway? Oh, you mean the *latest* cell phones! Ah, so does that mean you will bitch and moan when Europe is stuck with their 3G phones and we skip from 2G to 4G? No, I bet not.

    --
  • 90210 Communicator. The TV show meets Netscape Communicator. My eyes are tricking me again! :(

  • To be able to programme its IR to change channel on the TV programme the VCR and maybe open my electric gate

    What else ...

  • 9210... the number sounds familiar... Beverly hills 90210 maybe? :)

    Anyway, I would like to mention that a new feature has been 'discovered' on some Nokia phone models. The feature is a Police radar detector, (used to catch speeding vehicles) and it can be activated by following these steps:

    1. Enter your menu
    2. Select settings
    3. Select security settings
    4. Select closed user group
    5. Select on
    6. Enter 00000
    7. Press ok
    Clear back to normal, within a few seconds your phone will display a radar sign with five zero's next to it. It is now activated.

    Note: Cell info display needs to be de-activated.
    Settings -> Phone Settings -> Cell Info display

    Here is an article from a newspaper with a bit more background information:
    http://www.theage.c om. au/news/20001116/A52971-2000Nov15.html [theage.com.au]
  • What about the Sagem WA 3050? This thing runs WinCE, and is a GSRM phone (3rd gen wireless).

    This thing is sleeker, though. But, for raw tech, I think the Sagem at least gives it a run for its money.
  • 1. Try looking something up on it while making a telephone call -- "uhm, yeah, uh, can I call you back, I have to look it up in my phone..." 2. Too small to type, too small to read, too big to hold up to ear for extended length of time.

    I have been using the predecessor of the 9210, the 9110 for almost two years. If I want to make notes during a phone conversation, I open the device and it switches automatically to the (excellent) speakerphone.

    It's true that the Comunicators are quite large, but they're also very powerful. For me the size is worth it (YMMV). I'll buy the new one as soon as it's available.

    Regards,
    Xenna
  • Yeah, that would be great here in Oz. You get lost in the bush ring someone and give them your postion.

  • 244 Grams (Score:4)

    by citizenc ( 60589 ) <caryNO@SPAMglidedesign.ca> on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @01:58PM (#608334) Journal
    You can it to:
    • Call your dealer to buy 244 grams,
    • Fax your dealer to buy 244 grams,
    • E-mail your dealer to buy 244 grams,
    • SMS message your dealer to buy 244 grams

    Think about that 244 grams.. what a magical number. *Grin*

    ------------
    CitizenC
    My name is not 'nospam,' but 'citizenc'.
  • So I can use my Natalie Portman cover, and my GF her "Hello Kitty" one ;)
    J/K .. I'm using my Simens S35 and I'm pretty satisfied with the mobile phone .. but not with the Service Provider tho :p
  • I wonder if it works well? I have owned two Nokia's and didn't realize that they sucked until I got my Motorola Startac, it doesn't have the games, but gee it's sure alot easier to use.
    I want small and easy to use, not a the big and hard to use.

  • Damn it, where's the MP3 support?

    The FAQ says it doesn't support MP3s, but does kindly point out WAV files as an alternative [snort]

    Anyone know why this is missing? I assume lack of RAM or CPU.

  • it uses WinCE. it looks pretty cool, otherwise - view digicam pix and forward them via email, has built in sound, etc.

    sheesh, these things just keep getting smaller and cooler.
  • Dual band works in the US. It switches from digital to analog on a slew of phones i've seen in operation in the US.

    ---

  • Re:too bad (Score:4)

    by koapykoala ( 43085 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:16PM (#608340)
    it uses WinCE
    see http://www.nokia.com/phones/9210/specifications.ht ml
    Technical data

    Dual band: EGSM 900/1800
    32-bit ARM9-based RISC CPU
    Operating system: EPOC
    Data speed up to 43.2 kbps (HSCSD)
    Memory Card slot (MultiMediaCard standard)
    Connectivity: IrDA, Ir-TranP, Cable (DLR-2L)
    Low power consumption

  • You think you're last? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Try Canada. 'Nuff said. The States gets the cool stuff before it ever gets to us. Except maybe Kinder Eggs. Those are banned in the US.
  • Dual-band just means it operates on two different bands. In this case, neither band (GSM 800, GSM 1800) is available in the US, nor do I expect either of those to ever be available here. You should hope that they release this phone in a US-supported protocol (e.g. GSM 1900).
  • This "dual band" is GSM900 and GSM1800, neither of which is used in US.

  • Mobile phones... (Score:4)

    by drivers ( 45076 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:17PM (#608344)
    Too bad it doesn't have a feature to detect if it is being used by the driver of a moving car, and disable itself.
  • now do we get 244 annoying fucking songs to play as the ringer? i wish nokia would start making phones instead of goddamn toys.

  • Re:Doesn't work in north america? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Canada's just our 51st state, right?
  • I notice there are not many people here who have actual experience in using a Nokia Communicator in this forum, so I'll add some info of my own experience.

    I own the 9110 Communicator, which is the predecessor of this new device and I'm absolutely addicted to it. I have owned a HP 100LX (DOS), HP 200LX (DOS), HP 320LX (WinCE), Palm V and several Motorola phones, and I am very satisfied with my 9110.

    I'm special, because:
    - I have a strong preference for a keyboard
    - I always carry around my PDA & GSM phone
    - I really need mobile E-mail, WWW & SMS

    The 9110 has (AFAIK) the following disadvantages:
    - It is quite large & heavy (I find it acceptable)
    - It uses a not well supported OS (Geos)
    - It is rather expensive
    - It has no color
    - It is rather buggy (it crashes about once a week for me, no data loss tho...)
    - It does not support the US 1900 GSM band
    - It has no spreadsheet (there's a bad 3rd party attempt)
    - There are few 3rd party apps.

    I am very happy to see that Nokia has switched to Epoc (This OS has been agreed upon by many GSM phone makers such as Ericsson, I believe it was based on the Psion PDA's). I hope that this will mean more and better 3rd party apps. I am also very pleased with the Word .DOC and spreadsheet support. The color display looks very cool.

    Maybe the new OS will also mean better stability.

    I also saw some misconceptions about the communicator, which I will address (based on my 9110).
    - You cannot take notes and phone at the same time: This is not true, because the 9110 has a speakerphone which activates automatically when you open the shell.
    - It cannot use encryption: The 9110's WWW browser supports SSL encryption (I think it's 80 bits, tho). I use it regularly to access my company's database over the web.

    I hope the Epoc OS means we will have an SSH client (there's a telnet client for the 9110 which works well). And I really hope someone will find a way to run Linux on it!

    I am always puzzled why Nokia supports the US GSM frequencies so badly on the Communicators. Th US is the only country I don't have mobile Internet when I travel.

    Regards,
    Xenna
  • It supports also Java bytocode. The current version provides PersonalJava 1.1 and Java Phone API. This gives a nice open software architecture for third-parties. It also enables a safe execution environment for where you can dynamically download new Java applications from web as needed. EPOC OS is done by Symbian which is company owned by biggest mobile terminal manufacturers: Nokia, Ericson, Motorola and Matshushita. EPOC is Microsofts threat number one on wireless world.

  • I've got an SSH module called Top Gun SSH installed on my Palm IIIxe. There's also a Top Gun Telnet. Works OK, if you don't mind 40x25. I even have a VT100 emulator. Using Emacs is painful, though. :)


    Rev. Dr. Xenophon Fenderson, the Carbon(d)ated, KSC, DEATH, SubGenius, mhm21x16


  • THERE IS...

    another Finnish company building GSM phones with GPS positioning build in.

    That company is called Benefon [benefon.com] and they do make very cool phones. (Check out the ESC! and Tarck models.)

    Yes, used 9110 communicator for couple of years and have to say, that it's OS GEOS sucks big time. (as well as Linux connectivity, all are win software.)

    Not sure what to choose as next PDA+phone, 9210 or Track+some PDA....

    PS: Benefon was founded by buch of EX-Nokia engineers....

  • Coding C++ for it is just about that easy. There is an emulator which runs on Windows, you can build for it with Visual Studio (there is a custom tool that makes VS makefiles), debug to your heart's content, and then rebuild using their gcc for arm, and it should run with no problems on the device.

    Some of their libraries are hard to get used to, especially the string stuff. Exceptions are implemented with setjmp/longjmp, you have a CleanupStack on which you have to put everything to make sure it is deleted if you "throw" (No stack objects allowed if the destructor does anything, no throwing from constructors...). Porting existing C++ might be quite a lot of work. There are C libraries, but I think they are built _on top of_ the C++ libraries, and I am not sure that they are complete. You can also code for it in OPL, a kind of interpreted BASIC-like thing.

  • I've made cellular calls in the US from an area where I'm sure the tower will never see 1,000 people within range at a time, which doesn't sound like much until you realise that this tower is streched to the limits of the possibal range, I'm sure I was more then 10 miles away from it! Thats a lot of area, and not a lot of people in it. Sure the call clarity was bad, but it was analog so at least I could understand it. While I don't claim to know the UK well, I'm confidant that there is no area in the UK that sparesly populated. Your towers that never see more then 1000 people in range (and that is people not cell phones!) cover less then a mile.

    Sprint has a license to build a tower anywhere in the US they want to, they don't because there aren't enough potential customers to make it worthwhile. Remember too that they would be the only digital tower in most areas so they would be by default the provider for everyone in the area. Doesn't matter, there still aren't enough people.

    From My house to New York is farther then from most houses in Europe to Moscow, and I'm on the east half of North America. Americans are criticised for now knowing geography by everyone else, but everyone around me knows better then to drive to New York for an afternoon, which many Europians I've met think they would to regularly if they lived in my house.

  • For those that are considering the Nokia Communicator as a handheld computer for connected/mobile use (and I know of one friend that used the first model very successfully for that), the Nokia Phone Card [nokia.com] may be a better proposition.

    Being just a PCMCIA type II card which will plug into anything, including potentially Linux machines, this doesn't tie you to the phone manufacturer's idea of what a portable computer or PDA should look like. All we need now is a PCMCIA slot in a Palm. :-)
  • Dualband means that the phone supports 2 frequencies.
    Triband = 3 Frequencies
    In Europa, we use 900 / 1800 MHZ for GSM -- Most phones support those two frequencies (that's why dualband)
    Most of USA uses 1900 MHZ for GSM


  • Yes, they're planning on it (Score:3)

    by Anne Marie ( 239347 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:18PM (#608363)
    AT&T and BT have a strategic alliance [uwcc.org] ("Advance") to unite TDMA and GSM. They're banking on it.
  • Ericsson's smartphone - works in the US [ericsson.com]

    (There are pictures etc if you roam the site. The European version is being advertised heavily in Europe - it's really cool, and also runs the Epoc operating system from Symbian [symbian.com]

  • And *no* mention of its compute-time. Sure, it has great standby time and reasonable talk time (4hrs)... but when you crack that clamshell and start viewing PowerPoint presentations, how long does that poor little battery last?

    Unlike laptops, I doubt many cellphone users are spending their time plugged into wall socket!


    --
  • Two weeks ago I got rid of my 3-year old Nokia phone. It was a ludicrously clunky old thing by European standards, weighing in at 232 grams. I replaced it with a new Nokia 3210 phone (dual-band 900/1800 MHz GSM) which weighs 155 grams. (I just put them both on the kitchen scales.)

    There were many other lighter models available in the shop, but they were too small for comfort IMHO - I would be frightened of losing them. I guess these weigh around 100 grams.

  • Re:Doesn't work in north america? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Or could it be you're being ignorant. By dual band, the original poster probably meant 900/1800mhz. 900mhz being extremely popular in Europe, 1800mhz being somewhat popular elsewhere, including Europe. Both being frequencies that the FCC will not/cannot license commercial entities to use for cell phones. In the US and Canada (and possibly Mexico) cell phones operate at 800mhz (AMPS, TDMA, CDMA) or 1900mhz .. the "PCS" band (TDMA, GSM, TDMA). While GSM is *the* standard for most of the rest of the world, they've standardized mostly on 900mhz (and 1800mhz). GSM in the US/Canada is standardized on 1900mhz only, no 800, 900 or 1800mhz. So a dual-band phone from the UK would most likely work in Vietnam and Germany, but would not work with the likes of PacBell Wireless. - alex
  • NO! - It uses EPOC Release 6 from Symbian (http://www.symbian.com).
    Most of the existing software for Release 5 (including Opera e.g. for secure home banking and tons of free & shareware apps - some even open source) can easily be ported and there is a huge enthusiastic user base. Current PDAs that run EPOC R5 include PSIONs (Series 5(mx),Revo,7, netBook), Diamond Mako, Oregon Osaris, Ericson MC218 and R380. EPOC is rock stable (due to it's modern architecture and good memory management) and very fast even on lower spec processors like the ARM7TDMI@36MHz most current devices use.
  • Why bother?

    As far as I'm aware digital mobile phone communications are encrypted with something like RSA-64 anyway. It's possible to intercept analogue communications, but in the UK these are not really used anymore (at least in cellular comms.)

    And with the way dist.net is going, I dont think the RC5-64's going to be broken in the time a normal phone call lasts. Sure, your governing body of choice may have access to the exchanges (court-order wiretaps etc) but that's the law when it comes to most personal communications.

    Although I think the Nokia unit in the spotlight here is just eyecandy, or at least proof-of-concept. Like someone mentioned before, I'd much rather take out a Palm Vx [palm.com] and a Nokia 8850 [nokia.com] than one of these anyday.

    Or the Palm Vc when it comes out ... mmmmmm :)

  • Re:It's always about the web (Score:3)

    by Ecyrd ( 51952 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:45PM (#608395)
    Yes, it does support SSL. And 128-bit encryption, too. (You should see my 6210 - it contains all sorts of interesting warnings about how it contains encryption technology which may not be imported into certain countries, yadda yadda.)

    Direct quote from http://www.nokia.com/phones/9210/apps_internet.htm l:

    The Nokia 9210 Communicator supports frames and Java, so you can view Web pages in their original form and in color. It also supports SSL, the security protocol.

  • One thing we've got first... (Score:3)

    by isaac ( 2852 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:46PM (#608396)
    ...high speed mobile (not point-to-point) wireless. I've been using "128kbit" Ricochet service as my exclusive internet connectivity for a few months, and it rocks. I put "128kbit" in scare-quotes because what I see varies between 80kbps - 160kbps, depending on location, congestion, etc. Still always better than dialup, still good enough to let me listen to 48kbit streaming shoutcast stations from my laptop while surfing at dialup speeds, chatting on IRC, and checking mail via ssh.

    It's really an amazing leap forward. Oh, and it's unmetered flat-rate - I prepaid for a year of service for $825. About as expensive as DSL or cable, but mobile and just about as fast as the low-end offerings for each.

    -Isaac

  • I agree. There is a big advantage to using wireless tech like Bluetooth (or whatever comes after it, of course) to peripheralize the mobile office.

    The hip pack CPU with a wire / wireless connection to

    • monocle / monitor
    • headphones
    • keyboard / tablet / game controller(?!)
    • modem
    • printer
    would be great.

    I just can't wait to have a dual PPC with half a gig of RAM on my hip... BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

  • How many people move around so much that a GPS is actually useful? Mounted in a boat I understand. 4-wheel-drive, outback adventures sure. But just wandering around during the normal course of life? Can't you people read maps or something?
  • "dual band" refers to the phones ability to communucate using two different frequecy bands (not at the same time). Basically, most parts of Europe use one fequency band (eg. 900 MHz) while parts of Africa and Asia use another (1800 MHz).
    The nokia phone only supports one standard (GSM) in different frequencies. Here in the US we don't use GSM, we use CDMA or analog. Someone mentioned that they have a "dual band" phone in the US. What they have is a "dual-mode, dual band" phone. This means that it can handle two different standards (dual mode) and the two different frequencies (dual band) needed depending on if the phone is in CDMA or analog mode.

  • Sorry guys, you're not the centre of the world for everything.

    Not sure where the centre of the world *is* for techno toys right now, but the combined population of Europe is pretty similar to the USA, with a lot of mobile telephonic innovation happening by Nokia and Ericsson. Somebody want to give me a figure for the Asian market for mobile technology?

    I went to a lecture recently on iMode with a speaker from mOgilvy (Japan) and the speaker made an excellent point about access to the internet/ other info services via mobile telephone interface for Asian countries. Sure, the interface sucks, but if your mother tongue isn't written down using a Latin character set, well then a standard PC keyboard sucks big style. So a well designed mobile phone/ small screen touch and click interface can be an awful lot easier to use. Apparently the end of this year will see the mobile phone overtaking the PC as the prime entry point to the internet for people in Japan.

    IMHO I reckon you're going to see an awful lot more products developed with the USA seen as a subsidiary rather than primary market.

  • This thing suffers from the problems that almost all of the combined personal comms fodlops do:

    1. Try looking something up on it while making a telephone call -- "uhm, yeah, uh, can I call you back, I have to look it up in my phone..."
    2. Too small to type, too small to read, too big to hold up to ear for extended length of time.
    3. I'd hate to try and get my data back off this puppy after it took a swim in the urinal. My phone doesn't store anything more than a few numbers, and I don't use my Palm until I am safely seated. ;-)

    What I really want is a speaker/microphone with a magnetic off-switch glued to my mastoid or other suitable place, and RF linked to my Startac, with special software to listen for voice dialing commands. I want a Palmtop that has a screen like the old HP 360LX, wide enough to get 640 pixels across, but works like a Palm with a touch screen. And make it about twice deep (480 pixels), Also, I want the two week battery life, even if I have to go to monochrome to get it.

    I know what I want. How come I never get invited to focus groups?

  • It runs EPOC, which probably means it includes a JVM (the previous EPOC release, ER5, did), so it should run any Java program.
  • Just out of interest, why do you write "fsck" instead of...

    It's a unix thing: fsck - filesystem consistency check and interactive repair

    Links if it was a serious question...

    man page for openbsd fsck [openbsd.org]

    jargon file: fsking [tuxedo.org]

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:00PM (#608421)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • There were many other lighter models available in the shop, but they were too small for comfort IMHO - I would be frightened of losing them. I guess these weigh around 100 grams.

    And here in Japan, the average phone is less than 70g. (My Nokia NM502i is a whopping 77g -- a bit of a clunker compared to most others.) I carry it in a little pouch attached to my belt, but after years of using heavy GSM phones I still keep checking whether it's really there, because I can't feel the weight at all...

    Oh, the NM502i has wireless internet access, like almost all models in the Japanese market. Unlike most others, it doesn't have a flip-top color screen and a JVM built in...

    Cheers,
    -j.


  • Why is it that the states are the absolute last to get new consumer devices? Game consoles, cell phones, etc. About the only thing we get first on this side of the ocean is movies, and those usually reek.

    In this truly global economy, why aren't things globally launched, and if their aren't enough units then why aren't they launched right here in the sweet U.S. of A. more often?
  • The Nokia 9210 Communicator is a significant advance toward the mobile information society, combining many key elements of third generation technology such as a high-resolution color display, high speed mobile e-mail, a new user interface, and multimedia capabilities like full color video clips.

    All these features and not the one I'd really want: encrypted communication. With so much DSP power available, why not?

    Yet again, most people use license plates and birthdates for their bank account passwords, among others. Not considering the government and conspiracy theories.

    Flavio

  • Asian Stats:

    Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, Hongkong, Taiwan
    -50% of Urbanites have cell phones
    -85% of urban 20-35 year olds have cell phones
    -20% of 25-30 y/olds have more than one cell phone

    Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines
    7% of Urbanites have cell phones
    41% of urban 20-35 year old have cell phones

    Other Asian Stats:

    Cellphone turnover period is about 11 months [every 11 months users buy the latest gadget];

    Youngsters, Professionals and Bizpeople, use cell phones more often than land lines [and everywhere they are - incl. restaurants, airplanes, cinemas, funerals, operas, karaoke lounges...]

    Cellphones are not a status symbol in most Asian countries anymore, but a must-have if one works in IT.

    Real 'IN' people in cafes, carry multiple cellphones and use at least two at the same time -like "oh wow, wait I gotta call XYZ and tell them what you just told me, can you hold the line while I dial?"

    General Gadget Info:

    SE-E-Asia is gadget crazy.
    On the odd chance that something comes out in Europe or the US first, shops that cater to the well-to-do just fly there and buy a suitcase or two of full the gadget and come staright back;
    anything new that is not supported by local infrastrucure operators / service providers results in immediate feeding frenzy and competative push to be the first to support it, which results in plenty half-baked solutions, which are usually abandonned within a few months [and after spending XXX on development and XXX^10 on hype] for the next big 'IN' thing;

    Southeast Asia is Tech Paradise, if you can live with occasional connection speeds of only 36kps and timed local calls, timed internet dial-up, etc.
  • Get a life all you dual band whiners! Dual band just means that the phone can work in two frequency bands. The 9210 works in the 900 MHz & 1800 MHz bands which are standard in Europe. In the U.S. the standard frequencies for GSM are 800 MHz, and 1900 MHz, so the 9210 won't work in the U.S. However, there are dual band phones (GSM, CDMA, and TDMA) that work on the U.S. frequencies (800 MHz & 1900 MHz). A tri-band phon (800/1800/1900) is usually needed to work in both the U.S. and Europe).

  • Wow... I have had a serious Nokia fetish since my first phone (3110, three years ago). Since then I've had the 6110 (as it was small) and currently the 7110 (as it has WAP). I've tried other phones, notably the startac, and the software just isn't as good, as intuitive.

    This EPOC OS is the first fruit of the Symbian Relationship, stewarded by Nokia and Psion as an alternative "Consumer Electronics" (I know, it doesn't stand for that) platform for those in the world who don't kowtow to M$ dominance. And good luck to them.

    As this phone has "Third party software development capability" and supports "pure" W3 html and java, I guess we should all get excited by it. It is pretty /.able.

    Anyway, I'm off to see what they cost over here (less than a PS2, I'll bet) and I'll leave all you nice colonials with your chunky, insecure analogue models. Sometimes we do come first!

    Ben^3, confirmed Nokia fetishest
  • Well, I have the Nokia 9110, so:

    1. You can open it in the middle of a phone call - and it will automatically switches to hands-free mode - and the quality in hands-free mode is excellent

    2. Depends on your fingers size :) - It took me some times, but I can type an email or a SMS message without any problems.

    3. It really depends where do you put it :)

    I know it's pretty big, but the sound quality of talking with it (as a normal cellular phone) is superb when compared to other phone (no wonder, the Nokia 91xx got a real speaker and not a damn twiter or stuff like that)

    And ofcourse, I life the fact that the Nokia 91xx (and I think the 92xx also) is actually a 486 processor with RAM and everything - wonder when someone will install Linux/*BSD on it :)

  • Doesn't work in north america? (Score:5)

    by YouOverThere ( 50298 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @02:05PM (#608460)
    "Just dual-band support, so it won't work in North America"
    I guess I'll have to return my Dual-band phone that I've been using the last year, as dual-band support seems to not work here in North America.

    Funny I swear I've been able to make and receive calls all year......

    Or it could be that people forget CANADA is PART OF NORTH AMERICA!

    and dual-band phones work here fine.
  • Well, most probably that US hasn't yet moved to rest-of-the-world (Europe & Asia) compatible GSM standard. Here GSM 900 and GSM 1800 networks cover most of the continent, while US corporations each push incompatible standards, most of them even analogue. Even GSM is fscked up in the US - IIRC it was GSM 800 and GSM1900, so the band was shifted 100MHz for some strange reason...

    and I am quite happy with my 6110, but I am planning on moving to a 6210 soon :)
  • For those of you who are curious, 244 grams would come to $1500, if you go by Winnipeg prices. ;-)

    ------------
    CitizenC
    My name is not 'nospam,' but 'citizenc'.
  • Would be the addition of GPS capabilities. That would seem to be about the one thing extra that I could think of that would be useful in an all-in-one device like this. GPS isn't catching all too fast, but I think it is more because the devices are cumbersome/overpriced. I would buy one of these in a second if they could add GPS support to the unit.
  • Is the same phone featured on The Saint?
  • I'm not sure if that is true. Sun has created several subsets of Java (namely J2ME, the micro edition) which run with a smaller memory footprint (the K in KVM is for kilobyte). Subset means that some of the standard classes are not available.

    The Psion JVM that you're talking about is 'real' Java (1.1.4 compatible), but I've only heard that it runs on Revo (Plus) and the 5mx. It needs about 3 MB RAM.
  • Do you know kAWT [www.kawt.de]? Nice toolkit ;-)
  • found the speakerphone function useless in our noisy environments (central office and computer rooms). I never did find the adjustments for the cutoffs. Plus, I only got to play with the thing for a few hours. Confiscated by a manager who went off to impress the folks upstairs.

    Most of the time, when I need a keyboard, it's to TELNET and configure a piece of equipment or to act as a TFTP server, so my needs are not typical, perhaps.

  • It doesn't need to run KVM because it comes pre-packaged with a full Personal Java virtual machine that actually has a good AWT implementation, unlike KVM. You can download the Java SDK and the C++ SDK for the Epoc OS at www.symbian.com
  • Funny thing how nobody here mentions that it runs Java. In my opinion, that's one of most important features on this. It's no Java 2 ME either, with KVM that has such a crappy GUI toolkit it's hardly worth mentioning. No sir, it's a full Personal Java implementation and there's a good SDK for it, downloadable at www.symbian.com, where you can also get the C++ SDK for the Epoc OS. Now before anyone says "write once, debug everywhere", I can tell you that I've actually coded Java apps that were run on the Epoc OS (a Psion 5mx device) and I could code everything from scratch on my desktop and just move the code to the Psion and everything worked right away, without *any* changes to the code - no problems what so ever.

    Now thing about what you can do.. RMI to do distributed & mobile apps (remote control your sauna, VCR & whatnot), JDBC to databases, games.

    The real strength here is that they have good free SDK's for it so there will a flood of applications for the phone - and those apps will be compatible with all other Epoc devices, such as those made by Psion and Ericsson and perhaps a little later, by Motorola.

    What is happening here is a clear division of the mobile industry into Epoc & Java vs. Windows CE. Don't miss what's going on! This is the next "browser war"!
  • Since I have both a StarTac tri-band phone that I am using with sprint pcs and a couple nokia phones that I'm using with sw bell wireless, I have to say that you should take a second look at comparing the startac's against the nokia 82XX phones. These are by far the coolest phones I have owned. Less than 4 ounces, super tiny, no antenna to break off, no hinge to break (I have broken my startac a number of times) and pretty much all the features of the startac 'cept for WAP which is so technologically behind in the US that it is fucking useless.

    ~GoRK

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