Dawn Of The Diamond Age? 101
Wiesel Werkstätte pointed out this article in Nature about recent advances in the use of thin diamond films as semiconductors, a tantalizing possibility which has been thwarted thus far by the overlapping, misaligned structures left by the process of deposting diamond in a film. From the article: "Matthias Schreck and his colleagues from the University of Augsburg have found a way to eliminate the grain boundaries. They have not removed misalignments entirely, but they have restricted them to narrow bands that no longer isolate one crystalline region from its neighbours."
OT:You know what the next use for diamond is. (Score:1)
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:2)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:2)
Incidentally, semiconductor resistance usually drops with temperature -- so you on-state works better, but your off-state leaks more. Apparently diamond, if it can be formed into transistors, would stretch the point where it becomes too leaky to work out considerably.
What I would be concerned about is this: what is the forward drop across a diode junction? This determines the minimum voltage where any semiconductor will work. For Germanium it was a fraction of a volt, but Ge was too leaky at room temperature. For Silicon, it's 0.7V, and leakage is reasonable up to about 150C. Diamond is next on the periodic table, with much higher temperature, so I expect the diode drop will be several volts. If there isn't some work-around for that, you can forget about gigahertz diamond circuits. They might be great for the high-voltage, high-powered stuff like controlling CRT's or the AC end of a power supply.
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:1)
Re:Diamond age? (Score:1)
Re:Instead of a ring for my girlfriend.... (Score:1)
"trust me... nothing like they will if they see you're my X. I'd rather they just think we're a disconnected twisted pair."
Re:They don't know half of it (Score:1)
If not, YAAIdiot, and should sign up for the Malthion X project [badassmofo.com]
echo $email | sed s/[A-Z]//g | rot13
Re:Diamonds Part II (Score:1)
I'll tell ya' when this tech is ready! (Score:1)
Somthing I saw that was coller (Score:1)
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:1)
Reply (Score:1)
Secondly, De Beers certainly can see if it is using conflict diamonds. It is a diamond consortium (read trust) and has a lot of control over sources. That is why everyone is so nice to them when they graciously offer to do some sort of analysis that will enable them to see where their cut gemstones come from. Nice try guys but you really can't. You have to have personal knowledge of where they came from in your organization.
Thirdly, I voted for Nader thank you very much. Gore sucks as much as Bush does in my opinion. Go read my K5 diary, it has lots of stuff about the story I have been working on for the past month for national publication, it is about a coal mine that spilt 250 million gallons of coal sludge in 2 river systems, this company is owned by a company that is owned by Fluor Corp which gave half a Million to al gore the so called Environmentalist.
Fourthly, I think that people SHOULD be evenhanded. I would never write anything nearly as biased as what you will find on indymedia for the print publications off of which I make my living. I will however read indymedia as an antidote for the equally strong biases of the corporate media, which it openly tries to combat.
Thank you for your response, seriously.
Still not that useful... (Score:2)
But I thought the major problem with diamond chips wasn't fault lines so much as the fact that you can't p-type dope diamonds; for reasons still unknown they simply boot out any such dopants. Which would make it kinda tricky to do anything useful as far as diodes or transistors. Are these people claiming any sort of innovation in that direction? Or is this result more useful for using diamond as a structural material?
Diamond crystal is not the only structure of C (Score:1)
wherever he wanted it. You could use diamond
crystals for compressive loads and use carbon
nanotube fibers for tensile loads. Given a
composite material of both structures of carbon
I think you could make a very strong *and*
flexible *and* non-brittle building material.
As to whether this material would burn or not...
I don't know.
Re:Diamond age? (Score:1)
Upcoming ages as they will be called by the media:
The Linux Age.
The Information Age II.
The IT age.
The VR age.
The Robotic age.
The Genetic age.
The Microsoft Age.
The Age of Media.
And now for 2002....
--
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:1)
DeBeers, England, with large mines in South Africa.
Re:Cupricious Copper (get it?) (Score:1)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:1)
Kiwaiti
Uses (Score:5)
The main advantage of these are high temperature (500C instead of 150C with Silicon). One theoretical advantage is running higher voltages at hotter temperatures with less breakdown. So you could over-clock these babby's.
One issue will have to be the metalergic process by which copper attaches to the carbon. It took hundreds of small miracles to find the right intermediate layers to get copper to stick to silicon; will it take just as long for carbon?
Don't know if better or worse, just know that it'll be different. And from the looks of it, more expensive
Re:You know what the next use for diamond is. (Score:2)
Re:Who will be in charge? (Score:2)
DeBeer's main fear at the moment is not diamond films in processors, but those artifical diamonds made in Russia with huge presses.
They spend a fortune just to make test equipment available that can decide wether a diamond is articifical or not.
Carbon as a raw material ... (Score:1)
Carbon is abundant -- it's all around us. Although removing carbon from the living carbon reservoir might be undesirable, in the short term the supply is more than sufficient for a technique like the one in the mentioned article.
With a practical method of large scale diamond coating we could preserve structures, heirlooms, and treasures almost indefinitely. We could create surfaces that are virtually scratch proof, and optics that only deform under the most extreme conditions. With the technology to create panels of diamond we could create incredibly thin windows that are structurally superior to steel. With sheets of colored or opaque diamond we could build structures that would last for eons.
And don't forget one current application for vapor-deposition diamond: coating the cone with diamond creates bitchin' hi-fi tweeters. :)
Re:Oh No! Will my kids join the Drummers? (Score:2)
Re:(More than Slightly) OT: Conflict Diamonds (Score:1)
I only hope you do not have children, and if you do you do not pollute their head with this extremist activism against anything. First off, your post is completely OT and very inflammatory of DeBeers. You really are in no position to tell others that they are an evil company because you feel they have allowed themselves to be tricked.
My guess is you have never worked into any B->B->C type chain, because most of the time you have a good idea where something came from you really don't know. DeBeer's cannot devote the resources to ensuring that each and every diamond came from a nice peaceful mine with dwarves singing "Hi Ho" as they chip away at the rock.
After reading both your main site, and your protest site I really have to say - Stop reading national enquirer. Good grief, you are so against all the bad things Bush stands for you wont even give him any credit on valid things he does. C'mon - like Gore is any better of a man than Bush is. They are the same, a simple man with a cabinet behind them and a country to support them. This country will not let them ammend things to the constitution and take away their guns, and cause oil companies to start spreading baby seals on their ships. Get a grip on reality, look at history and realize that there are more sides than what you see because from everything said (on your site) it seems you really only look on sided.
Now that I'm done with that, and you wont listen because you will blow me off as a conspirator or naive consumer I'm going to get back to my code.
Hot of the fab, into the fire. (Score:2)
Also it's worth noting that diamond stops being a semiconductor at 500C. I hate to dust off ye ol wayback machine (I never know if it will work properly) but I seem to recollect that Diamond became usefull around 220C. Obviously the performance of a 300C chip would suffer somewhat due to more electrons being scattered by the high temperatures, but it's not so much their preformance, but their useability that is the issue. Besides wouldn't we all want to see ads for Cray HVAC/supercomputers?
Warning! Suspect Anecdote Follows, Use Caution.
Once upon a time I was making amorphous substoichiometric thin films of tungstun trioxide (WO3). The Air Force was interested in this (though not me specifically) because W03 could be made into WS2 which was a nice semiconductor, well at least the band gap was attractive. It was a little higher temperature than Si. What the hell would they want with that? Well they wanted to use it to replace the mechanical devices that read the fuel pressure in the tanks of their fighter (probably all planes). I know for commercial planes 1 lb of weight translates to an additional $20k of annual operating cost (for a fighter plane I'd assume it's many times greater). But not only would such devices be much lighter, they'd be much smaller, and more reliable. It's the boon of solid state physics, as one makes things smaller, nearly every property improves. There were some other characteristics of WS2's structure that made it handy from a manufacturing stand point, but it was the band gap (higher temperature operation) that made it useful. I certainly see how the air force might want high performance fighters that had more room for accessories, while being more reliable and cheaper to fly. Something to consider.
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:1)
-Ryan
Mr Creosote (Score:1)
Cu CPU (Score:3)
Re:Somthing I saw that was coller (Score:1)
let's see... 'cooler', 'wafers', 'scoring', 'lasers', 'sink', 'sandwich', 'allowing', 'coolent', 'super'
that should take care of that.
the carbon you speak of is most likely Buckminster-Fullerine, a.k.a. Bucky Balls. you wanna make some quick bucky balls? take your average cigarette lighter (not the one from your car, should you have one), light it, and hold it under a spoon (metal, not plastic. plastic works, but it tends to melt much more readily than metal). the 'soot' that accumulates on the back of the spoon is the buckyball form of carbon.
the other possibility are nano-tubes. wonderful little things, those, but they're far too fragile to serve as a load bearing structure such as you speak.
another nit-pick. crays are super computers, granted. however, the term 'cray' does not apply to the cpu's used in such computers. cray built super computers by combining multiple cpus in parallel, like a dual cpu system, only with a lot more. cray is not the only company to do this. sgi is also quite fond of parallel processor power.
my suggestion, next time you wanna try and post something intelligent, a) don't just blurt out the first thing that comes to mind, b) do a lil reading before-hand, and c) spell check.
GaAs (Score:2)
A little TLC does the body good.... (Score:1)
carbon is abundant (Score:1)
and yes, they really do make silicon from sand.
Re:Uses (Score:1)
next issue, crystalographic orientation. silicon sets up crystals the same way carbon does.
another issue, those 'disturbances', or grain boundaries are what gives poly-crystalline silicon the carrier (electron transport) characteristics we like so much for transistor gates. i'm not going to go into too much detail, because that would require digging thru every thing i learned over the past year finishing up an EE degree with a specialization in NMT (nanofabrication manufacturing technology), but grain boundaries for gates are good.
coppermine (Score:1)
Re:Instead of a ring for my girlfriend.... (Score:1)
This would be great not only as fine jewelry but as a great weapon.
Rapist: I've got a knife - pull your pants down.
Woman: Please, hold my hand while I am doing that, I don't want to fall down.
Next moment a casual spectator would be very surprised to see a burning man jerking hopelessly from high voltage discharge...
at least 20 years old (Score:2)
20 years. Radiation hardened military chips
was supposed an application.
Carbon has same valence as Silicon (Score:2)
carbon is in the same column as Silicon, one above.
Therefore it has properties useful for circuit
design, such as substrates and nano-wires.
(Conversely biochemists have speculated on Si-based life.)
Instead of a ring for my girlfriend.... (Score:5)
----
We need the Monolith... (Score:1)
Then those silly diamonds won't cost so much! Muwahahahah...
Reuasble (Score:1)
How much will they cost? (Score:3)
Covering monuments with diamond film... (Score:5)
This idea has stayed with me for years.
*Sigh* imagine Paris, in the springtime, the Tower and Arch sparkling like diamond in the morning sun...
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:2)
Please No (Score:2)
Nothing like a little skewed facts to give businesses a reason to charge more for their products.
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:2)
(Of course, my knowledge of this stuff runs about as far as yours, so it's possible that this isn't a problem/is unsolvable/is useless. But leave that judgement to the experts.)
Wasn't Dr. Schreck... (Score:1)
"Eh, there's a mouse in my mobo..."
Re:Wasn't Dr. Schreck... (Score:1)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:2)
They're scientists... I'll be surprised if they CAN'T come up with a practical application for this. Heck... post-it notes were just a cool failure sitting around the lab. Someone will figure out how to build/market something using this tech. I guarentee THAT. How fast... thats another story.
diamonds film used as semi-conductors... (Score:1)
Since diamonds are forever.. (Score:4)
(Slightly) OT: Conflict Diamonds (Score:1)
They have said that they do not use conflict diamonds, [oneworld.org] which are diamonds that have been bought from human rights abusing governments and insurgencies in Africa. I.e. in order to get the mine where your diamond was mined, child soldiers may have been used, civilians killed and tortured, etc.
Not really, though. They allow themselves to be tricked, and their diamond reserves in London, Frankfurt and Tel Aviv are of course full of conflict diamonds.
You can only prevent the use of conflict diamonds in 2 ways. 1 make the diamonds yourself, and 2 get the diamonds from sources you control and make open to the public.
I prefer the first way, really.
We do not need to be mining natural diamonds for gem or other purposes anymore.
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:1)
>
And the OS. Controlled by a single-company cartel in the upper US. The restrict or release technology as they see fit. It's like government done right.
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:1)
Localized high currents (only example I can think of is electrostatic discharge, but that's because silicon can't handle intentional high currents) would become more attainable if the substrate could handle short-term or even moderately-long-lived high temperatures without breaking down. Maybe not heating the entire chip up, but specific junctions/switches/gates/drivers being able to survive bursts of high current could be VERY useful..
Diamond age? (Score:1)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:1)
tf=(tc+32)*1.8
where
tf=tempature faranhite
tc=tempature celcius
tf=(500+32)*1.8
tf=532*1.8
tf=957.6
957 degrees faranheit is very VERY hot. Now I could take my little butane blowtorch lighter and test to see if it goes up that high, I know acetaline torches can cut through steel, but i'm sure they have to go way over 957 degrees to do it. Can someone confirm this for me?
--toq
Re:Instead of a ring for my girlfriend.... (Score:2)
Why you will never see a diamond processor (Score:1)
we saw the same thing when GaAs first came out. "GaAs has better better transport properties" they whined but nothing ever came of it b/c Si had too much of a head start.
Si has a great property -- it rusts (so to speak). Si+O2->SiO2. SiO2 is glass and an insulator so to create an insulator on silicon all ou have to do heat it up in oxygen. Diamond is an insulator when you remove all the dopants. How do you dope deep down into the crystal and leave an undoped (insulated) layer on top for a FET.
It costs nearly $5billion to set up a fab when you know what you are doing. How much do you think it will cost when there are currently no machine manufatureres or even known proceses for a new material. No one will jump on the diamond bandwagon because the risk reward prospect is really bad.
New sarcasm: free as in deBeers? (Score:1)
--
Re:Carbon as a raw material ... (Score:1)
I mean, I guess it's good and all but-...I'm just going to be having some difficulties with this-nevermind, just ignore me...
Re:Instead of a ring for my girlfriend.... (Score:1)
Re:They don't know half of it (Score:1)
IANAEconomist, but if demand raises and supply stays the same, prices will rise, not fall.
Re:Wasn't Dr. Schreck... (Score:1)
Mildly Offtopic: Gemesis' man-made diamonds ... (Score:1)
Gemesis is a Florida company that is now producing large, gem-quality clear or colored diamonds.
There's not much information on the Gemesis web site [gemesis.com], but a few weeks ago I remember watching a PBS Nova program entitled "The Diamond Deception" [pbs.org] about the quest for gem quality man-made diamonds. Gemesis contracted for Russian technology to produce what they claim are the best man-made diamonds in the world -- diamonds that can only be detected by a fluorescence test.
The stones being produced are of such high quality that DeBeers is seriously concerned about the future of the diamond market.
Cupricious Copper (get it?) (Score:1)
I'm not terribly sure there's a lot of value in what I'm hoping is a clarification. :) But why not, right? When I refered to dislocations, I literally ment areas of imperfection in the crystal as opposed to the actual edge of a grain. Like a missing carbon atom, or a line where if you were looking at a sheet of atoms in the diamond it would look like someone ripped and slightly seperated the torn edge above and below the plane etc.
At any rate we should get back to talking about diamond not some silly metal. It would be pretty interesting to see some high quality doped diamond, maybe with nitrogen.
misinterpretation.... (Score:1)
-k
Re:A little TLC does the body good.... (Score:1)
here [pbs.org]
for their show "The Diamond Deception."
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/
for those who worry about the goat...)
Re:Covering monuments with diamond film... (Score:1)
So, dirty, grimy sooty eastern Europe was just ahead of its time?
Re:coppermine (Score:1)
Does this have anything to do with... (Score:1)
Re:carbon is abundant (Score:1)
Geology 101: Silicon née silicates are the primary components of the Earth's crust. You get a gold star. :)
If you say it with a short "o" sound as opposed to the long "o" sound you get extra credit.
If you know that silicone is the primary component of Pamela Lee Anderson then the whole class will sing a song to you. :)
But I digress -- silicon is not nearly as durable as diamond. I am not going ga-ga over the idea of semiconductors that can withstand a blowtorch. What juices me are the applications for diamond-deposition technology -- scratch-proofing optics, hardening membranes, preserving surfaces, stuff like that.
Now if we can only get a tech that allows us to diamond coat objects without exposing them to near vaccuum and extreme temperatures that would be ducky, especially for realatively fragile carbon-rich baubles like the Mona Lisa.
Back to Ms. Anderson, she coats herself with diamonds through a process of well-documented reproductive efforts. :)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:1)
tf=tc*1.8 + 32
not that it really makes that much of a difference... 932 vs. 957.6.
devon
Re:Reply (Score:1)
Sorry for the misunderstanding of your roll into it. I do know that it is very difficult, even for a consortium to guarantee that all of the goods are in fact what you want and ordered, regardless of your chain. You have unethical employees (Bob, the inspector buys conflict diamonds, trades them out for roughly equivalent nonconflict diamonds and makes some cash on the exchange), and sometimes just accidents. I never hold any organization completely to blame for something, it usually always comes down to one or two people who made a wrong decision and often times continue that decision to save their dignity from admitting they were screwed up.
Re:Somthing I saw that was coller (Score:1)
Secound, yes crays were super computers but since Compact bought the processor division of Cray when it fell apart. The processors now produced by the compact-cray division I call crays.
Third the carbon scoring was deep into the diamond surface and not just soot!
Fourth this is a very unique solution to multi processing that is not done by SGI (who used to own Cray), EMC, SUN. These super computers rely on switching protocals seperate from the processor bus to handel cache coherency. This method I descriped allows one to do a multy processing solution all on the same bus (beyoud 2 processors). Why is this allowed in the described situation, because by placing the pins on top of one another the bus length is very short compared to a normal bus layout thus creating the electrical properties to allow for a truly multy processing bus system.
Oh No! Will my kids join the Drummers? (Score:2)
Yeah, I overclocked my Diamond Sledgehammer, (Score:2)
Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:4)
Diamonds Part II (Score:1)
I think i read this at arstechnica [arstechnica.com] go check it out.
They don't know half of it (Score:5)
The Russians are doing gem quality diamonds 4 carets every 72 hours. They're also going to do LCD monitors that use almost no power (yet are bright and vivid without backlighting) out of diamond as well.
Simple doping already gives np switching with rough diamond films such as the one shown in the article.
So don't bother buying a diamond engagement ring if you're getting married. In a decade they'll be free with a can of motor oil at Wal-mart.
Who will be in charge? (Score:3)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:2)
I wonder what the maximum low temperature would be. But in any case, anything that significantly expands the range of the operating temperature is going to be useful.
Currently, (I have heard) a typical CPU pulls enough power through that one or two square inches of ceramic to power a sixty watt light bulb. With that kind of power (to 500 degrees) inside of a regular computer box, well that might get a bit dangerous for use in the average home.
Boxen glowing from heat would not do well in wooden homes.
Re:You know what the next use for diamond is. (Score:1)
Re:Kiss your cooling fan goodbye! (Score:1)
Re:Reuasble (Score:1)
Re:You know what the next use for diamond is. (Score:1)
Step in the right direction (Score:1)
Stephenson envisioned building diamond atom-by-atom all the way up to macroscopic dimensions. In principle, such techniques would eliminate defects entire, but this method is a far cry from it.
Re:Instead of a ring for my girlfriend.... (Score:1)
Husband: Actually, I'm reading firewall logs from the home network.
Or maybe:
Wife: I just love it when you wisper sweet nothings into my ear.. But what are you saying?
Husband: ls... cd bin...
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:2)
Kurdt
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:1)
Re:Wasn't Dr. Schreck... (Score:1)
<OT intensity=very>
Max Schreck [imdb.com] was the original Nosferatu.
</OT>
temperature coefficient (Score:1)
Re:Somthing I saw that was coller (Score:1)
'coolant' not 'coolent'
i'm not a grammar or spelling nazi, but don't go flaming someone when you turn around and make the same mistake yourself.
Re:Covering monuments with diamond film... (Score:1)
Re:Since diamonds are forever.. (Score:1)
Only if you have a gem of an OS!
J
Re:How much will they cost? (Score:1)
Re:Wasn't Dr. Schreck... (Score:1)
Re:You know what the next use for diamond is. (Score:1)
Frank Lloyd Wright designed a mile high building to be built in Chicago in the 50's, and they didn't build it for this exact reason.
PovRay rendering of mile high building [povray.org]
More images [primenet.com]
Was the mile high building in Star Wars Episode 1? [fortunecity.com]
You don't need iridium! (Score:1)
You know what the next use for diamond is. (Score:2)
Interesting... (Score:1)
Great since diamonds are a girls best friend, maybe (when, and if I get married) I could give my gf a CPU made from diamonds.
No Honey, I didn't get you a ring! This is better, trust me!!! LOL
Re:We need the Monolith... (Score:2)
Typical short-term solution. Jupiter is a cosmic vacuum cleaner, so it absorbs a lot of comets that would otherwise endanger Earth. If we blow up Jupiter, we'll have to use the carbon to give everyone on Earth a diamond coating so they'd survive an impact event. And we'd have to use lots more on diamond drills so holes could be made to cater to man's procreative/eliminative needs. Then we'd need more carbon to plug the hole that was left so it wouldn't make a draught. Projections indicate we'd run out of carbon in thirty-two years, four months.
So go ahead. Blow up Jupiter. But you'll be condemning humanity to forever going without sex or urination.