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Technology

Practical Universal Wireless 68

Posted by Hemos from the tired-of-hearing-about-this dept.
A reader writes "A story in Technology Review today outlines the advances in wireless that need to take place before wireless broadband can be effecitive. Quite frankly, I'm getting a little sick of the whole notion of wireless internet access and until improvements are made to both wireless input and output devices, the only thing I will use the "wireless web" for is to check a Red Sox score."
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Practical Universal Wireless More

Practical Universal Wireless

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  • Re:who actually uses this for business? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have. I agree, wireless web on a mobile phone is totally useless. But I use a wireless Palm and I can't remember how many times I've used it for legitimate business use.

    I travel (a lot) and often book my flights, perhaps a little too close to my meeting times. Frequently, I'll be stuck in a meeting and have to change my reservations. Or, sometimes the flight gets cancelled. I can get myself rescheduled while I'm in the taxi on my way to the airport and avoid waiting at the counter for an eternity.

    Usability is still limited but, I use it for business. I can't help but wonder if one of those Windows CE devices would be more usable, though?

  • Honestly, if I could use WAP services here in the USA from my 3-band GSM phone, the same way I can do pretty much anywhere in the world,
    and not be charged for incoming calls
    and pay no mothly fee as the vast majority of non-USA wireless providers,
    I'd be happy.

    For any wireless service, the first step to get any decent quality is to exit USA territory.

    USA cellphone/wireless/wireless data providers suck, period.

  • I agree. I've seen at least one phone with "Wireless Internet," and it left me unmoved.

    OTOH, I'm a Palm VII user, and that strikes me as a much more reasonable wireless device form factor. It has a screen easily three times as big as a WAP phone, and a much more convenient UI (tap the screen to "click" on a link). And, for text entry, Graffiti (or Jot, if you're so inclined) may not be perfect, but it beats "typing" on a phone keypad hands down.

    The biggest drawbacks are the speed (9600 bps max, via the BellSouth Mobitex network), the need for "query applications" to visit Web sites (although if you download the Google PQA, you can get around this to some degree), and, of course, the cost. It's also not a true TCP connection, like the Palm Vx/OmniSky combo can do; if I were starting again, I'd probably go the Vx/OmniSky route (or the Visor Platinum/OmniSky route). I do wish I'd waited for the VIIx, too, especially now that they're so heavily discounted.

    Eric
    --

  • I'd love a solid 16 or 20oz PDA with great battery life, lots of features and performance, and a high res screen, packed into a sturdy steel case.

    You're all alone, then. Apple's 2K series Newton was just that, and they sold about 12 of 'em. No steel case, but it was sturdy.

    What you ask for costs big money (well, it did 4 years ago). Nobody wanted it.
    "Beware by whom you are called sane."

  • It sounds like you need an iBook [apple.com] running Mac OS X.

    No, it's not a PDA, but i's pretty small, pretty light, and covers pretty much what you want, and $300 cheaper too.
    "Beware by whom you are called sane."

  • Okay, maybe mathmatician is a strong word. How about "any person with a checkbook" then?

    When using the calculator to figure out how much is in their checking account, the end result (usually fitting on a 10 digit calculator) tells the person:

    • how much money they have
    • whether or not they can buy that HDTV
    • how many bills they can pay

    My point is that even a simple number, in context, gives massive ammounts of information. It's all in the context and how it's accessed, not the size of the display.

    But then, I think you knew that and was just trying to be irritating...
    "Beware by whom you are called sane."

  • Re:so many choices so little time (Score:3)

    by rho ( 6063 ) on Monday May 21, 2001 @12:01PM (#208127) Journal
    E.g. If there were a combo pager/cell/pda I think many people would flock to it, provided it wasn't filled with bloat.

    If there was a hover-car/boat/jet plane, I think many people would flock to it, provided it wasn't expensive.

    Bloat is relative -- vis. emacs vs. vi religious wars. I don't want my Palm acting as a phone. It's too unweildy to use as a phone (the width of it, I mean). However, I sure think it's stupid that I have phone numbers in two places -- in my phone and in my Palm. I'd like to be able to sync those to together. However, I don't want to be FORCED to carry both (i.e. in order to recall phone numbers I have to have the Palm). If they synced automagically, even better.

    The screen size is not the problem -- you can display plenty of information on a very small screen. As an example, look at a regular 10 digit display calculator. In the hands of a mathmatician, it can convey MASSIVE ammounts of information in a meaningful way. A Palm (or even a cellphone display) can do the same, as long as the information is displayed in such a way that the information is easily retrievable.

    It's not the ammount of information, it's how it's presented.


    "Beware by whom you are called sane."

  • and (firewire) isn't designed for daisy-chaining (but someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one.)

    You're wrong. It is designed for daisy chaining in a manner very similar to USB. The only reason why most people haven't seen this is because of a lack of Firewire products. You've got your video camera hooked up, now what? (Well, okay, you might have a hard drive and CD-R burner as well - but all three? unlikely. also unlikely that you'd use all three at once.) Yes, there are Firewire hubs, although, like most things Firewire, they're unreasonably expensive.

    In nearly every reguard, Firewire is superior to USB. Oh, except for price point! :)

  • Re:who actually uses this for business? (Score:3)

    by brassrat77 ( 9533 ) on Monday May 21, 2001 @11:11AM (#208129)
    I do. Using palm Vx and Omnisky:

    email when I'm remote and away from a net connection - regularly.

    look up tech info on a website - several times - depends on which web browser works (Avantgo is best overall as a web browser, but syncing channels wirelessly is PAINFUL)

    get directions/phone numbers to someplace I am trying to find (work and personal)

    check stocks - became too painful watching my alleged net worth evaporate

    trade stocks - haven't bothered to make necessary changes to my account

    Check news, slashdot - when I'm bored, assuming there is a PQA out there (or I'll start using sitescooper)

    remote access via ssh to other boxes - several times when I needed it and this was only way. Also handy for irc access.

    Granted, the connections are sometimes slow and not always reliable, even in places you'd expect them to be solid. And the omnisky software can go belly-up at the damndest times.

    I was reading the Tech Review article last night, and I think the combination of dual-mode (CPDP + digital network) "modems" and improvements to the software will make wireless access "good enough", at least for techno-geek early adopters.

    As my spouse rarely uses a PDA for more than an address and appointment book, I think it'll be a while for the masses. And USEFUL unification of PDAs, phones, 2-way pagers is even further off.
  • My point is that even a simple number, in context, gives massive ammounts of information.

    No it doesn't. The context holds the information. To continue with your example, if the checkbook-balancer left the room and I walked up to see the number on his calculator, I would have no idea (and no way of knowing) what the number meant.

  • Lumpy Clause wrote:

    ....and what percentage of cell phone users have EVER used their phone for any emergency purpose?

    I agree with most of your post, but this line stuck me as rather thoughtless--why not also ask, what percentage of air bag owners have EVER used them in an emergency?


  • I especially liked the picture at the beginning, where they put that wearable HUD on that rotten potato covered with silly puddy..

    Oh my god.. that's not a potato..

  • Sports Scores (Score:3)

    by gmhowell ( 26755 ) <gmhowell@gmail.com> on Monday May 21, 2001 @12:23PM (#208133) Homepage Journal
    While I'm no fan of the Sox (unfortunately, I have to love Peter Angelos' monument to the ego, the Baltimore Orioles), there is this nifty new technology that lets you not only get scores, but also get play-by-play coverage of the game! It doesn't require a computer, and is so simple, my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother could use it. Heck, it doesn't need a power cord, and some don't even need batteries.

    Now, you do need to be close to a transmitter (kind of like with the wireless internet thing) but they are all over the world. Everywhere. It's amazing how this thing has taken off. This guy named Marconi [tmlp.com] invented the whole thing in his basement, so he should get plenty of Slashdot cred.

    Heck, like TCP/IP the protocol is totally open source, and it's easy to build your own transmitter [yesterdayland.com] or receiver [radioshack.com]. Heck, there is even a simple encryption scheme [soton.ac.uk] available.

    But wait, there's more. With a simple hardware add on [bbc.co.uk], you can enjoy interactive events [donandmikefans.com] and IM [phonesexcentral.com].

    I tell you. This technology is here, and it is here to stay. Give it a chance. You might enjoy it.

  • all in one combo phone/pager/laptop

    There is. It's called the Nokia Communicator... Unfortunately, the latest version, the 9210 [nokia.com], is not available in the U.S. I've heard Nokia decided that Americans were too enamored of the palm/pen style of UI to be very interested in mini-keyboard devices. :( I wish daily for one of these things...

    FYI, if anyone from Nokia every reads this, I'm a keyboard kinda guy! :)
  • As an example, look at a regular 10 digit display calculator. In the hands of a mathmatician, it can convey MASSIVE ammounts of information in a meaningful way.

    I'm curious exactly what massive amounts of information a mathematician is presenting here. I've worked pretty closely with a lot of mathematicians and from what I've seen most of what they do is in high-level symbolics. How do you express a theorem or a vector space or even an integral from calculus one on a 10-digit text display? While I agree that small displays can be very useful and if presented well can convey a lot of information, I believe you analogy of a mathematician using a calculator screen is flawed. Frankly, numbers tend to be of a lot less importance to mathematicians than theorems and symbologies.
  • Exactly. I was not trying to be "irritating" at all, I was trying to make a point that the poster's assertion was flat-out wrong. There's a certain information bandwidth for any given device which can not be exceeded, and while the original poster was correct in saying that small displays can convey more information than one would expect, his calculator analogy was dead wrong. Like you said, it is the context which holds the information, not the display.

  • so many choices so little time (Score:4)

    by joq ( 63625 ) on Monday May 21, 2001 @10:54AM (#208138) Homepage Journal

    The whole wireless ploy has become such overkill, that it's stomach turning. The benefits of having a Palm or other device for Wireless access is not a neccessity by any means in real world scenarios, they just make things easier.

    Too many companies are trying to focus on stamping out product after product while failing to give just one definite product to handle it all.

    E.g. If there were a combo pager/cell/pda I think many people would flock to it, provided it wasn't filled with bloat. Not saying bloat is always bad, but I see many of these wireless PDA's on the market with nothing worth true substance to make me want to buy it.

    I have my cell, page, laptop which I carry around, so other than trying to keep up with the Jones' I see no need to run out and buy something I already have by carrying around my other gizmo's.

    One, my laptop stores more info than a PDA, and its easier to use than scrolling a little pen over a small ass screen. Secondly my pager sends me news every hour, and I can receive email on it too. My phone can receive the same, news, and email, so what makes the PDA companies think I need to carry extra baggage to access these features. Typical email can wait, as if there is an emergency, via pager or cellphone, I can be emailed or paged.

    Should I need to store information, I would rather jot it down on good old pen and paper to xfer it to my pc's should I not have on powered on. Just imagine getting a super models phone number then smashing your PDA by accident (bad example but hopefully many will see the probs I find with PDA based stuff). You're screwed.

    While companies may brainstorm on how big of a screen they should make, or what new programs they could insert on the limited diskspace, maybe one, just one vendor can do something a'la mid sized (between PDA, and Laptop sized) all in one combo phone/pager/laptop and do away with all those annoying little PDA's.


  • so true (Score:1)

    by TomL ( 63825 )
    so many advances in mobile data input and display need to be made before any wireless technology will get my attention. i don't really care much for getting news headlines and sports scores no matter where i am. what i'd like to be able to do is read and post to /. while sitting on the beach. but i don't wanna carry a laptop around.. the device will have to be smaller to be worth it to me. but i doubt i would sit on the beach and use wireless internet anyway. so it really doesn't matter i guess. nevermind.
  • I have a wireless device that gives me Red Sox scores, along with realtime play-by-play and color commentary (in two languages), and fan feedback (accessable from any telephone).

    Also, I get traffic and weather reports, news headlines, and the latest stock market numbers.

    Not only that, but there are channels that stream the latest hits in near-CD quality, too.

    All for the low, low price of $9.95. No hidden monthly fees, no credit card required.

    It's called a "transistor radio" and it's nearly forty years old.

    Sheesh.

    k.
    --
    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people
    are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
  • I see people posting that pervasive wireless net access isn't necessary, that they wouldn't use it, that existing laptops, cells, pdas, etc. are sufficient for their needs. These people sound like the people in the 70s that thought PCs weren't necessary because mainframes were perfectly capable of handling all their computing needs. What you aren't getting is that new uses, new applications could become possible that aren't possible (or practical) today. All the things you do with computers today evolved in their environments and are best suited to those environments. Of course those things could be cumbersome/impractical in some other environment. But new ways of doing things will evolve in that other environment that may be better than the old ways.

    In other words, try to think beyond next month.
  • Anyone living in the southern half of minnesota and northern iowa can have wireless broadband. a person in that region can drive from norther iowa (soiux valey area) to willmar (north central MN) a near 300 mile trip without ever getting off the internet the whole time reciving cable/dsl speeds.
    sure, you need a few hundred dolars worth of equipment. The cost is little more than a nice dsl/cable modem and is completely portable.
    secretive26@hotmail.com
  • I recently started using the Ricochet wireless modem and so far, I love it. I can't get DSL or Cable modem service yet and this is an alternative that is much better than a dial-up 56k connection. I'm in an Atlanta suburb and I'm getting 150-180Kb/s downloads and ~85Kb/s up.
  • It seems to me that we should be focusing on deployment of a true wireless network -- not just for PDA's, but for all devices needing connection to the Internet.

    The same technology that will deliver wireless to your PDA could just as easily deliver broadband to your home PC.

    With reliable broadband being hideosly difficult to get, there needs to be a way to centralize the way it is provided. DSL is not a viable solution for the long term, nor is cable. Right now, it's almost impossible to know if with any certainty that you can even get them in an area until they are actually set up and working.

    Here's an interesting story: while looking for apartments with broadband access, I happend upon one complex which advertised that it could get dsl through Verizon. I called Verizon, and they confirmed this. I even checked dslreports.com. After signing a lease and setting up my phone number, I unfortunately found out that the second floor was connected to a different Central Office (CO) than the first floor, and was thus over the maximum distance that Verizon provided dsl (16,200 ft). My apartment was on the second floor, so I was SOL. Just goes to show you that you don't know if you can get broadband until you actually get it.

    The point is that DSL and Cable require costly equipment installations in multiple locations (COs). This contrasts with the idea of setting up a few wireless towers throughout a city to serve everyone. Unless you live behind a mountain, you'll probably be covered. Plus, when it comes time to upgrade, all the wireless provider has to do is upgrade some tower locations and maybe its own office. No local phone companies or obsolete cable equipment to deal with.

    If anyone with $$ out there is listening and can do this, I know lots of people who would pay lots of money if they could get reliable, fast broadband at home.

    P.S -- if anyone can recommend good broadband capable apts in North Dallas, please let me know :)

  • Wireless data services will give us tons of new opportunities, albeit more slowly than we would like. Clearly the initial hype has led to overinvestment and unrealistic expectations about the wireless internet. Furthermore, putting "internet" in its nickname has created expectations of having an experience that resembles the current HTML, fixed-terminal, Netscape/IE rendered WWW. However, in a pretty short time, we have gone from having nothing in this area, to having a number of wireless data services that people think are worthwhile. Personally I've been grateful even for the 28.8K connection I got from my laptop via "high-speed" GSM data during frequent train trips. Consumers in Europe, Japan and the Philipines have taken off totally on mobile messaging, and they don't seem to care about the limited input interface. Tweaking maximum value out of limited technology, companies in Scandinavia are offering a wide range of services from dating/matchmaking to event info on the SMS protocol (services that are often based on the same content databases that are fed to their WWW sites). I find the article very static in its views of both the internet and the society. It presents only what is needed to bring the net in its present form to today's devices in today's society. For instance, there is limited credibility to the "social stigma" theory of the barriers to wearable computing devices (such as the "cyborg" goggles). As with any new technology there will be an initial phase where the main market frowns upon it, while only a limited group of innovators embrace it. When the usefulness and fashion value of the thing is established, the rest will follow. This initial inertia is actually a good thing for the technology, as it allows the product to mature a bit with the early adopters before it hits main market. pk
  • ... "checking a Red Sox score" is likely the only thing that the wireless web is good for right now. However, there are plenty of times that I would be love to be able to do that.

    Walk first. Then run.

  • I guess this counts as "personal use", but it's certainly business use for the people who rescued him [iwon.com]

  • Actually, this issue of Tech Review includes an article on this very topic -- Wireless input and output devices -- and makes the same point: that a decent user interface is just as important (or maybe almost as important) as having the raw bandwidth. This article describes some really neat output devices (for example, little eyeglass-mounted deals that project a Big Screen view onto your retina). However, it says that the technology for mobile INPUT is not as far advanced, describing folding keyboards of various types and various voice recognition devices and schemes.
  • You're looking for a Toshiba Libretto or one of the Sony Vaio sub-notebooks.
  • I have been a Palm and Windows CE user, but I hated both. All of the Windows CE software is unstable, barely qualifies as functional, and lacks the features needed to make it more than a toy. Not to mention 3 hour battery life of color screens, and a 131 MHz processor and it still takes less time to open up StarOffice on my Notepad than it does to open up WinCE's crippled word processing program.

    Palm isn't as bad because it is much more stable, and doesn't typically suck down batteries with a color screen, but it still lacks decent software, has a tiny screen, and data input is painful.

    To shorten this story.... I got a Psion 6mx. Found that it had a 640x240 screen, full keyboard, compact flash port, terminal emulator, backlit screen, great battery life, and the most impressive line-up of applications ever on a handheld. Type up documents with all the formatting you could want, the ability to integrate spreadsheets, or a graph resulting from a spreadsheet, drawings, built-in clipart. Print directly from the Psion to an IR printer, connect the serial cable to the printer, or connect to your PC and use your desktop printer. All this is just built-in, and much more is avilable. There's also a built-in database, scientific calculator with previous commands displayed on screen, etc. Before I get too carried away here, I'll just say that Psion creates tools for business people, not toys like M$ and Palm (it's their slogan). They have no bells and wistles to attract the uneducated, but I doubt any user will be able to give theirs up. I've personally rid myself of several pounds of papers, notes, books, just because the Psion does it all. All the complaints in this message, and the main article, would be a non-issue if they had used Psions for 5 minutes.

    Forgive the rant,but it needs to be said... Just because the two big players are mimicing each other, doesn't mean all handhelds are as bad. But whoever buys the handheld that doesn't have the bells and wistles?

    www.psionusa.com

    ---=-=-=-=-=-=---

  • Um.. my good buddy Jack over there at SkyBurst internet ( http://www.skyburst.net ) has been doing affordable wireless internet access for businesses and residential customers alike for over two years. What is with all these articles on /. extolling wirless as some Flash-Gordon future technology?! In this case, It's already deployed throughout a giant section of the South Bend / Michiana area. If the idea of downloading MP3's at a red light or at home @ 150k/sec is appealing to you, check it out! Corporate consulting services also available.
  • I think the technology for wireless exists, but the motivation from companies is low. What I would like to see is a 802.11b repeater that would cost very low (under $20 or so) then you can install these little devices in every light post!

    If the electric companies want to get on the Internet, here is what they need to do, develop this device, mass produce it. Make channel 1 lets say the "public" access. Each of these repeaters would have a router and dhcp server. (run RADIUS with WAP so you can get your profit)

    This CAN be done with current technology, but the motivation and investment from companies is so low, that no one is pursuing this.
  • Damn funny - I got a phone with Wireless Web capability a couple months ago, and guess what I've used it for? Yup - checking a Red Sox score! sorry, this was a metoo.
  • But I believe about 0.01% of these calls are necessary.

    When it really comes down to it, your telephone is not necessary. Nor is your nice little 328, the cup of coffee in your hand, even having a job or living where you do now. This isn't about necessity, this is about convenience. Once the early adopters have worked out the bugs, wireless 'net will probably replace a home internet line in the great majority of households.

    z
  • Execept for the unix variant OS, I would pay for it in a heartbeat. I don't think a unix variant OS is good for a handheld (you only need rudimentary security, console password and process/memory segregation, imo), I would REALLY want a uniform interface, and I haven't ever found X to be reliable or easy on resources. I much prefer winCE, or in a pinch, PalmOS will do.

  • Ok, I'm giving this one away:

    ...mobile reception of streaming mp3's, from my home computer or from mp3.com.

    Now you'll finally have time to listen to all 33,000 [mp3.com] trance tracks.

    (Synthr's [mp3s.com] Spiderman soundtrack remix is actually kind of nice :)

  • Wireless networking would fall a few points above that, particularly if you were a customer representative/salesperson. For the rest of us? Another expensive toy.

    Let me just blow your entire, ignorant theory out of the water with one simple idea:

    Imagine what all the telecommuters in the world would do if their broadband internet connection was wireless and worked ANYWHERE on Earth.

  • This is all about time-stealing toys, not efficiency. In a recent visit to Chicago, I noticed that everyone on the street has a cell phone stuck to their head. But when I got close enough to listen, most of them were talking to someone about, the weather, the dog, what's for dinner. Same thing with email. 90% of it could be omitted or handled a different way. Wireless Web-PDA is more of the same.

    It seems obvious, but you can keep your appointments and phone numbers in a little tiny book that doesn't require batteries or have even a remote chance of causing brain damage.

    Wireless web is just more crap in your life. Don't buy in. Spend your time talking to the people in the room with you instead picking up the cell phone. Take time to eliminate time-consuming crap like checking sports scores and stocks (they won't change between now and when you get home) and use that time to connect with who and what's around you.

    You'll be surprised how much more you'll get out of a day.

  • Yes, you are a moron. But if you get wireless internet access, you'll be smarter than any 10 of us combined!!!

    Hey, are there any other /. South Bender's out there?

  • In workspace, household, ok. But mobile? Consider for a moment the bottleneck with trying to provide all the cell phone users with their own little nitch to chat away on. Now, even with broadband, consider the likelyhood off even approaching that number of users with wireless. The frequency spectrum is packed as it is and the only direction to go, accounting for speed, is up and into Satellite or LOS.

    A thought to ponder... Several years ago personnel in the US embassy in Moscow were concerned that microwaves were being beamed directly at the embassy, potentially harming their health. We've got quite a lot of that, particularly in some of the denser population centers. Studies are probably still inconclusive.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • Where I live is probably one with the greatest access to the best wireless technology. When I'm not at home it never enters my mind to connect and see what's happening in the world. I'm often busy enough keeping things going in my little sphere.

    Typical day:

    Alarm rings

    fire up laptop, download email

    Shower, dress, breakfast

    Delete 15+ Spam, shutdown laptop

    Drive to work

    Work 7-12, lunch, work 1-4

    Drive back to town, check PO Box

    Stop at pub, have a drink 'network' with friends

    Drive home, fire up laptop, download email

    Delete 20+ Spams, shutdown laptop

    Ride bike, run, whatever, eat dinner

    Catch sunset, call friends, read book, etc.

    fire up laptop, download email

    Delete 10+ Spams, check /.

    Read until I fall asleep

    Can't figure where I'd fit mobile-computing into a day like that. Sure I could download email while driving, but in 10+ years I haven't got one email that couldn't wait. Answering machine, OTOH, is where people leave important messages.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • magine what all the telecommuters in the world would do

    Funny you should mention this... I worked for a company which contracted and had regular employees telecommute. They all worked from home anyway, as that was where all their development materials (manuals, printouts) were. Great if you aren't so media resource-intensive, but hardly a convincing argument (Hey! I'm such a dork, I take my laptop with satellite communications on a cruise ship to do work!) Reality is, there's few occupations in which telecommuting is an option. (Sorry, you can't paint houses from your broadband enabled PDA! Doh!) Where it is an option, the field I work in, it's still a minefield which requires some navigation to be able to, what with employers worried about liabilities (is your home actually a safe work environment, would you allow OSHA to inspect it?) We've been trying to get that option for some time and have been advised it's pretty unlikely at this juncture.

    And in case you missed it, the labor market isn't as strong as last year this time and IT folk have a lot less leverage.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • A Waste of Time? (Score:3)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Monday May 21, 2001 @10:56AM (#208163) Homepage Journal
    I'll admit, I have a laptop and have had a cell phone a few times, but the need to be anywhere and connect has been somewhat overrated. When I'm out and about I never take my laptop with me (they get stolen too easy.) If I was able to view stuff on my phone or on a PDA I'd still not be inclined to use it. Cell phones (i.e. mobile wireless communication) are pretty easy to use, so much that I see people driving, walking, eating, etc. with one on the side of their head (gee, how did they survive without one?) But I believe about 0.01% of these calls are necessary. Wireless networking would fall a few points above that, particularly if you were a customer representative/salesperson. For the rest of us? Another expensive toy.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • USB, while designed for low-speed devices, actually has 12 Mbit/s of bandwidth available, 8 Mbit/s of which is doled out on the Isochronous channel on a first-come-first-serve basis. This can lead to some nasty conflicts, which is the reason that practically nobody uses the isochronous channel (not to mention its a pain in the ass to work with). But, I did manage to write code that allows 8-Mbit ADSL over USB (with an 8051 controller, no less :), presuming no bandwidth hogging devices like cameras are attached.

    Firewire, in the abstract, is pretty similar but with much (much much) higher bandwidth. Unfortunately, it'll never be as cheap for a few reasons. Namely:

    1) Having a 400 Mbit/s serial connection means that you need a 400 MHz clock at the line.

    2) Every device on the bus is aware of every other device on the bus, meaning that the protocol is much more difficult to deal with.

    3) The above two problems mean that you're going to need a fairly fast processor on board (a $3 8051 won't cut it). Having a faster processor means increased cost there, plus the fact that power consumption will go up. Increased power consumption means that you're less likely to be able to bus-power your device, meaning you also have to add an AC rectifier/power-supply increasing the cost of the design further.

    Firewire is just a bit ahead of its time. The processing power needed isn't yet economical in consumer embedded devices, but should be soon.

    Tim
  • I saw this interview linked to on securityportal. This guy Dennis Blaine talks about the future of wireless sec. I like this part best...

    Q: Why don't we have that today?
    A: Just like there is a huge number of types of mobile platforms and methodologies, you could also have the same number of encryption technologies. To date, no one has addressed that problem: the problem of how a single carrier can accommodate all those different encryption technologies.

    My point is that the one thing keeping me from adapting is that fact that I can't really do the things that I think are really important like checking my stocks, or bank account, or even my yah00 mail. They are my passwords and I'd like em to stay that way.

  • Advances in USER INTERFACES, not wireless (Score:3)

    by sstammer ( 235235 ) on Monday May 21, 2001 @11:06AM (#208166)
    From my reading, the article deals with advances in the user interfaces for mobile systems. It has very little to do with wireless communications. The UI issues would be equally applicable to a system that had no wireless communications, with the I/O devices connected via wires.
  • good point, in fact even just having a wireless LAN is great, sit outside in the sun with laptop reading slashdot and stuff. still, where I'm moving in October they have wireless LAN style net access in parts of the city centre, sitting in a pavement cafe with a coffee and /. anyone?

  • Keep your ears open for IS-856-based technology. This is part of the CDMA-2000 standards family and has been developed by Qualcomm corporation. When this is deployed, you will have many vendors building to one standard that provides you with cellphone and high-speed wireless access. All sorts of cool devices will be available. Look for deployments beginning the middle of 2002.

    Magnus.
  • I use my cel (Samsung 6500) to check my work mail when I'm in transit in the morning and to check news. The UI is painful and the only reason I use it is because I start getting the shakes if I can't get online (I'm pathetic,I know). I think that a better UI and slightly larger screens (A Palm sized screen would be great if it had a better UI) would do it. A co-worker has the Visor Deluxe with the wireless modem and folding keyboard and it is truly awesome.
  • Yeah, I have read about it too, cell phones have been popular among robbers lately over here.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Isn't there a preview button posting stories so that you don't make a mistake like leaving the whole post in italics?
  • I tried using it for on the spot E-bay price checks.

    The idea was to hunt around in the bargain / flea markets, see what was available, vs. the price on e-bay.

    To some extent, it did work. I was able to check the prices, and my ebay profits went up.

    I ended up quitting it in about 3 weeks.

    The problem I ran across was the interface. All these wirless web WAP thingys use CPCD, right? (I'm W/ ATT Wireless). I've used CPCD on laptops before, and the speed wasn't too bad for browsing, especially if you disable image loading. On the other hand, surfing on my Ericcson RLX280 was an excruciatingly slow process.

    Is there some sort of overhead associated w/ WAP or perhaps the WAP/Phone browsers? I can't see data transfers taking 15-20 seconds for less than 2k of text.

  • Quite frankly, I'm getting a little sick of the whole notion of wireless internet access and until improvements are made to both wireless input and output devices, the only thing I will use the "wireless web" for is to check a Red Sox score."

    I recently convinced by boss to get me a Ricochet PC card (128K wireless in major metropolitan areas), and I have to say that's it's awfully nice. If this is the beginning of the wireless web, then it's something we should be excited about. Unfortunately, this seems to be a niche market. If we're betting the future on cellphones and pagers, we've got a long way to go. Ricochet works with the iPaq, but even that (relatively large display area) isn't very enjoyable for browsing.

    I'm a little concerned for those friends of mine who are working at wireless startups (generally the only internet-related startups with cash to burn this year.) All the reformatting technology in the world isn't going to overcome the fact that the "wireless web" is nothing more than a stripped down version of gopher running on a cellphone.

  • Universal Serial Bus (USB) is not universal yet, and is competing with firewire. Maybe USB is not that universal.
    Nope, sorry, wrong answer. USD and firewire are complementary, not competing, technologies.

    USB is designed for relatively low-speed desktop devices, such as keyboards and mice with a maximum speed of 1.3 Mb/sec and can daisy-chain devices. Firewire, on the other hand, runs at 400 Mb/sec, and isn't designed for daisy-chaining (but someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one.)


    -----------------

  • I'm in cautious agreement. I've seen some demos on TV of what the 3G DoCoMo stuff can do, and it's pretty incredible. Streaming video on your 3G mobile phone! Too bad they had to postpone the rollout until October because of network problems.
    -----------------

  • E.g. If there were a combo pager/cell/pda I think many people would flock to it, provided it wasn't filled with bloat. Not saying bloat is always bad, but I see many of these wireless PDA's on the market with nothing worth true substance to make me want to buy it.

    Getting a little OT, but Samsung is coming out with a cellphone / Palm combination this summer that to me looks like the first of these type of devices that got it right. There's a little article about it here:

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID= 17 50P

    I like the form factor--I'd rather have a cellphone with PalmOS than a Palm with cellphone capability. Which is why I've never been too interested in the Kyocera (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1 707) or that monstrosity Qualcomm came out with a few years ago.

    I'm already sold on the PalmOS, so having the cellphone integration is a bonus. It's one less gadget I have to carry around. (And I carry my Palm everywhere.)

  • There's no way for us to know how universal will it be. For example, Universal Serial Bus (USB) is not universal yet, and is competing with firewire. Maybe USB is not that universal.

    The same can be told in this case, there's always somebody who doesn't like the universal interface, or the universal standard, or the universal communication, and will put in market different products with promisses like this: "Avoid Universal problemas, with specific solutions". And that's it, our Universal anything is not universal anymore.

    IMHO we need to let market decides, of course it's not always the best product, but the best company who wins! (win? windows? what can we do? I also think that horrible products dies soon or later)

    I know it might seems a flamethrower, but that's the way I think, and that's the way things seems to walk now a days.


    Don't worry, I'm to angry [to|every]day

  • I allways found gopher to be much more responsive than the web. Maybe I should try Lynx.
  • i'm cynically half joking (just look at how it propelled initial vcr use and internet adaptation):

    someone has to develop a killer wireless porn app and that's all she wrote...

    i'll leave it to your imagination on the various input/ output devices that could supplement the article with the idea of porn use in mind... ;-P
  • All the hype about the wireless broadband will become true only if we get good bandwidth AND good services. Any one of these without the other doesnt help. Unfortunately, both of them are related because, only if people start using more and more of these, will these telcos be able to invest more and deliver better bandwidth. So it is the first job of these guys to make us use these things. Concentrate on giving value added services like location specific data, instant messaging services etc. Then the usr base will grow. Then probly I will try one of them...

  • I don't own a laptop, PDA, cell phone or pager. If I want to find out the news, I turn on the radio, fire up my internet connection or buy a newspaper. If I need to call someone, I pick up my regular phone. If I'm out, I drop by a pay phone. If someone wants to get in touch with me, they email, call, or drop by my house. If I'm unavailable, they leave a message. I've been living like this for years, and I've NEVER had a problem. Quite frankly, I'm just not that important a person.

    All of these devices that are supposed to make life convenient have some drawbacks that have all been said over and over again. We become slaves to them. They are annoying. They cause traffic accidents. They drum the common decensy out of us and turn us into obnoxious jerks.

    Everyone got these things "for work" or "just in case of an emergency." Last time I checked, unless you were a doctor or a pimp, you didn't need to be in constant contact with anyone for work, and what percentage of cell phone users have EVER used their phone for any emergency purpose?

  • From the original post:"the only thing I will use the "wireless web" for is to check a Red Sox score." I agree...I have never EVER seen anyone use the wireless web for anything other than checking their stocks, or getting a tid-bit of info on sports or something along those lines. Any I high, or have some of you actually used your PDA for something other than personal use?
  • Until there's a compelling and "transparent" interface to the internet, wireless is just another way to get information that can be gotten in other and usually better ways.

    Now, when the time comes that information can be directly visualized without A) the clunkiness of PDAs or laptops or B) the horrendous limitations on display quality (and quantity!) of data-enabled cell phones, then we might have something.

    What I'm waiting for is something along the lines of Peter F. Hamilton's datavises and neural nanonics (unfamiliar start here [amazon.com]). Yes, we're talking a quantum leap in technology, but I don't see wireless as being truly compelling until such a time, at least for the WAN. This coming from someone who runs an 802.11b LAN at home.

    -

  • I think the common mistake is to think of wireless devices (PDA, web phone...) as all-purpose internet tools. In fact, I think that the differentiating factor isn't the fact that they are wireless, but that the physical UI is different. This makes different devices suitable for different applications: PC: Good for heavy-input tasks, high graphics, etc. This one is obvious. PDA: Portable, and still has a reasonable screen - this is good as a newspaper, and can be used as a quick address book/memo pad (try whipping out a laptop to type in an email address when you meet someone on the subway) Web Phone: get quick, current tidbits of information. What was the score? What's the stock price? What movies are playing at theater X right now?
  • The wireless access touted by cell phones and PDA's is useless. Or at least there has been no compelling use found yet. But wireless access for laptops via 802.11b is great. I'm posting this from a Coffeeshop in Seattle that has wireless access with no charge. I also have a Wireless access point at home and at the office. With five hours of battery life in my PowerBook I can work almost all day without plugging in. I've been doing this for almost a year now and there is now way I'm going back to wires. Taking the laptop into the bathroom to read the news finally killed my newspaper subscription (besides, slasdot doesn't deliver) What we really need is to get more places wired with 802.11b so that you can real internet access in more places. From the amount of time I spend in this one coffee shop (and it's always packed, getting a table after five is tuff) there is a compelling business argument for providing access for customers.

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