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Acer Laptop W/Fingerprint Recognition System 246

Posted by Hemos from the building-it-in dept.
Dekaner writes "Acer has announced the TravelMate 740 with a built-in fingerprint recognition security system. The fingerprint sensor is part of the notebook? s palm rest. Users must train the recognition system, which is then used to boot the machine or to decrypt files stored on the hard disk. The TravelMate has a 1.2 GHz Pentium III processor, a 15-inch screen with a resolution of 1400 by 1050 pixels, built in 56K modem and Ethernet connection, and it can be supplied with either 128 or 256 MB of memory. It can be configured with a second hard disk, CD-ROM, DVD, or a DVD-CD-RW drive. It will go on sale in October."
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Acer Laptop W/Fingerprint Recognition System More

Acer Laptop W/Fingerprint Recognition System

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  • Not for use with *really* valuable data (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:24AM (#2378028)
    If there is one thing I learned from 'Demoliton Man' with Rocky^H^H^H^H^HSylvester Stallone is that Wesley Snipes will come and cut parts of your body off if he needs them badly enough.

    Don't keep data on this thing that's worth dismemberment, because scary terrorist-types will cut your fingers off.
    • Don't keep data on this thing that's worth dismemberment, because scary terrorist-types will cut your fingers off.

      Nah - these things can tell a dead finger - blood, pulse, rigor mortis etc. You need to have it attached to you when you use it. Of course, this presents a problem if you do something disfiguring to your finger (don't joke, it happens!), and you can't get at your files. What's more, someone can just hold a gun to your head until you put your finger on the pad...so it's by no means foolproof.
      • So, you just made a good point:

        With a standard passwd, you had to consent to give this valuable information to a bad guy.

        With this system, you just have to stand nearby, and, whether you agree or not, a pirate will find it less difficult to *borrow* you to hack into your computer.

        In conclusion, this fingerprint system will make both our lives and computers less secure.

        • I have to disagree (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Snootch ( 453246 )
          After all, if you struggle at all, it will be unable to get a good fix. Even twitching the muscles in your finger violently should be enough, and if $BADGUY hold your finger down hard enough to stop that, you'll get a screwy reading anyway
      • these things can tell a dead finger - blood, pulse, rigor mortis etc

        Some do. The question is, can Acer's?
    • Last "Ultra-secure data hosting company" I worked for always pointed out this sort of biometric device to tourists and journalists, but explained that they looked for a pulse, too, so cutting off the finger wouldn't work. Maybe Acer should advertise this feature, too.
      • I wonder if you can use the scanner to save prints, or if it's only usable for their security system.

        It would suck to have one of these and not be able to scan in other people's prints, and play with the resulting images.

        Apple's voiceprint secuirty is like that: The only way to "save" a voiceprint is to create another user in the Multiple Users control panel. They built a whole extension for vioce recognition, you'd think they'd make it accessible to more than one place!

        I'm sure someone will make a linux driver with all imaginable options. Right? Right?

    • Demolition Man? No...Red Dwarf ! (Score:5, Funny)

      by oneiros27 ( 46144 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @10:24AM (#2378327) Homepage
      I doubt Red Dwarf was the first show to use it, but they were much funnier about it....

      They come upon a door.

      KRYTEN: Uh-oh, a door. We'd better use an air vent.
      LISTER: No need.
      KRYTEN: Sir?
      LISTER: Look, I'm gonna do something now, Kryten, that's totally, totally
      gross. I don't want you to look. Turn around.
      KRYTEN: What?
      LISTER: Trust me, you don't wanna know!

      KRYTEN reluctantly turns around. LISTER pulls the object he picked up
      earlier out of his jacket: it's a hand. He presses the severed hand to
      the palm-print device, and the door opens. He puts the hand back in his
      jacket and turns around. KRYTEN has a sick look of realization on his
      face.

      KRYTEN: Logically, sir, there is only one way you could have possibly
      have opened that door. I feel quite nauseous. Where is it?
      LISTER: Where's what?
      KRYTEN: Oh, sir!! You've got it in your jacket!!
      LISTER: I got us out of the hold, didn't I?
      KRYTEN: Sir, you are sick! You are a sick, sick person! How can you
      possibly even conceive of such an idea?
      LISTER: Cheer up! Or I'll beat you to death with the wet end!
      KRYTEN: Sir, if mechanoids could barf, I'd be onto my fifth bag by now.
      You're a sick person! Sick! Sick!
    • They will take my fingers from my cold dead hands.

  • New Crypto Rules (Score:5, Funny)

    by FatRatBastard ( 7583 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:25AM (#2378030) Homepage
    Yeah, but according to the new crypto laws you'll have to cut off your pinkies and give 'em to the FBI to keep in "finger escrow."
  • Now maybe those government officials won't have to be "quite" as worried when they lose laptops full of top secret files.

    These small, integrated fingerprinter scanners have been in the works for a while now. It's good to see that they're finally being put to use. What's next? Fingerprint ID car-starters? Cell-phones? so many possibilities...

  • 10 cents says you can boot into the bios and reset it, or use a paperclip.
    If not, how could you ever sell it, or let anyone else use it?
  • If.. "The Identix software is integrated with the Windows 2000 user management database, so you can enroll through an option in the log-in dialog or by navigating the system administration dialogs." to quote http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,38898,00 .asp

    What stops you from reformatting the hd to get rid of this thing?

    • Well, the idea is to keep the data safe, not the laptop itself.
      If you reformat the hard drive, then whoever had valuable secret data in there has nothing to worry about it getting out in the open or in the wrong hands.
      • What then stops you from mounting the drive off of a boot disk?
        • well, if the fingerprint recognition is used at the BIOS level (i assume that it would), then the boot disk would still require fingerprint recognition in order to work.

          • Re:So I ask you this... (Score:2, Informative)

            by sporty ( 27564 )
            read my orignal post, its not in the bios in this case..
            • the file system is encrypted, most likely using a proprietary encryption key. If someone booted the drive using a boot disk, they would be able to read anything that is not encrypted on that drive. If they somehow got access to the encryption key, then there is an entirely different type of problem that needs to be addressed.


              There's always a way around security...it just depends on how much that data is worth. And if it's worth so much that someone would be willing to manually decrypt an entire HDD, then maybe that data shouldn't be on a laptop in the first place.

        • Win2k & XP Pro support NTFS encryption. Sensitive files would be safe even if you mount it outside the system or with a NT boot disk. Plus, you have to log into the file system anyways for access. Still, you could reformat the HD, but the files would go with it.
    • Yeah, but then you'd erase all the protected files. This isn't so much a computer protection thing as a file protection thing.
    • We'll get Passport integration, too? Once the DNA readers come along we can keep our genetic code on file in Redmond. {feelings of unsettle}
  • Now I will have to use both hands to run the laptop. No more Pr0n surfing for me. :(

  • It is interesting... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frleong ( 241095 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:28AM (#2378047)

    The article is short on details but it seems not to be very reliable. In corporations, the IT department usually has a master key so that even when the employee leaves, the company can still retrieve the data. What about this fingerprint-recognition system?

    Second, this article makes me wonder if Slashdot will consider inserting text ads like Google by masquerading as submissions. I think it is a great way to get income to maintain this heavyly used site (banners at the top are no longer very effective), given the financial conditions of the parent company VA Linux.

    • In corporations, the IT department usually has a master key so that even when the employee leaves, the company can still retrieve the data. What about this fingerprint-recognition system?


      You leave. Your finger stays.
    • The article is short on details but it seems not to be very reliable. In corporations, the IT department usually has a master key so that even when the employee leaves, the company can still retrieve the data. What about this fingerprint-recognition system?

      Indeed, if we don't know how it works internally, how do we know that Acer hasn't built a huge backdoor into it (like how their CEO's fingerprints or an easily reproducable pattern will always work)?

      I expect it uses some system to "hash" fingerprints into simpler indentifiers, but how do we know that this function is unique? I've already dealt with iris-identification products that, given a large enough input sample, start incorrectly identifying people since the hashing function didn't produce unique hashes.

    • Here's my guess about how it works and some questions:

      The BIOS probably interacts with this and tells you to put your finger on it before it will complete booting. There's probably a finger-less way to update the bios which puts the laptop back into "new" mode, forgetting its fingerprint settings. This seems like the most likely way to override this security as a method of getting a working laptop.

      Presumably this wouldn't allow decryption of files encrypted to use fingerprint as an access method to some other encryption keys, but it would make the laptop a functional computer again.

      Regardless of the fingerprint system, it still seems possible to part the laptop out as individual components (of limited usability since its a laptop) as well as replace the motherboard or flash RAM if its socketed.

      This computer is kind of confusing because its trying to solve two problems: laptop security (keep the laptop from functionality if stolen) as well as data security (protect the data even if the computer is made workable).

      The latter is hard, but the former is very desirable to me as a corporate IT guy. I'd love a hardware-key system that would render the laptop useless if stolen. Fingerprint is a PITA since they're kind of tied to humans, but access cards would be great since presumably there could be many cards capable of accessing or modifying the laptops (ie, master key).

      It still might not prevent disassembly or other hardware attacks, but my guess is that most laptops that are stolen are stolen to be resold as complete units, not sent to back-alley chopshops to be sold as parts..
    • Second, this article makes me wonder if Slashdot will consider inserting text ads like Google by masquerading as submissions. I think it is a great way to get income to maintain this heavyly used site (banners at the top are no longer very effective), given the financial conditions of the parent company VA Linux.

      What's so special about this article in particular that made you start suspecting this ? The situation you propose is already here: the book reviews already look very much like text ads, very very big text ads that come with very large endorsements from -presumably- unbiased reviewers and that come complete with hyperlinks to buy product. From this admittedly jaded perspective it comes as little surprise that 1) the majority of book reviews are very positive; anyone who reads many tech books would be suspicious at this alone, 2) a suspiciously large number of them seem to be published by O'Reilly, who as I recall run banner ads here.
  • Simply because it's made by Acer. Everything with that brand name turns to crap, a' la the old Packard Bell.
    • I disagree.

      While Acer Desktops aren't exactly cream-of-the-crop, their laptops aren't bad at all. I personally own an Extensa 501T and it runs Slackware Linux. Everything works beautifully - Display, Sound, and there's even support for the Winmodem. I've enjoyed this laptop for the past four years, and I've only ever had trouble with the floppy drive.

      In that event, Acer paid to have it returned to the factory, fixed it, and had it back to me the same week.

      I would definitely recommend Acer laptops. I've had nothing but good things to say about mine.
      • Everything with [the Acer] brand name turns to crap

      That's unfair! There's nothing wrong with my Travelmate 507, apart from the faded keys, jerky touchpad, cracking hinges, heavy weight, crappy video card, noisy hard drive, crackly sound, fragile modem socket, erratic parallel port, blocky display, overheating CPU, short battery life, sluggish system speed, minimal upgradability, and the lack of WinME/Win2K/WinXP support for all of the wierd hardware in it.

      </sarcasm> (OK, OK, but it was cheap, the CD reads burned discs very well, and it runs Linux better than it runs the bundled Win98SE)

  • A valid reason (Score:2, Informative)

    by smaughster ( 227985 )
    I knew someone would eventually find a way to make all those fancy CEO's give their laptop the finger.

    Btw: for all the l337 hackers suggesting cutting off fingers: proper finger recognition systems can sense whether the finger being scanned is attached to a living body by checking for temperature, pulse etc. So instead of just stealing your thumb and laptop, they will have to steal you as well.
  • Gives new meaning to the phrase "three-finger salute," doesn't it?

    Ctrl-Alt-middle finger, indeed.
  • this [linuxjournal.com] article mentions java-based smart card readers that work with Linux. Does anyone know of a similar biometric product?
  • This should be very popular with companies - problem #1 with giving managers/execs laptops is they'll lose them or have them stolen, which, when combined with the lack of (transparently) easy security means that a lot of important data can be compromised very easily.

    For the same reasons it should be popular with MI6 who last year seemed to be losing a laptop a month.

    So long as it's implemented sensibley, I think Acer are on a winner here.
  • What I am wondering is when is the verification done? Is it completely seperate than the OS, or does the OS load up some program? I would hope it does it immediately after you turn it on, that way it would be much hard to bypass. Still, though, when things like this usually come out, it normally only keeps Normal Joe User out, and it a gifted person that knew what they were doing (the type that would probably steal the laptop to begin with), they could probably access the data somehow. None the less, though, some security is better than none!

    • I'm guessing thatsome part of the OS would have to load. The BIOS would have to have a quite larege program to analyze the scan, and some pretty hefty storage to store the unlocking print.
      Possible maybe BIOS level though.. it'd be alot nicer to lock the OS out totally(waay too easily bypassed)
      • The article says it's part of win2k, but you COULD do it in hardware, storing the print in WORM memory, rather than writing it all into BIOS firmware. Of course, you'll need some sort of hardware level security as well, otherwise someone can just open up the case, take out the reader, and insert thier own....

  • This is neat, but not really useful (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The Ultimate Badass ( 450974 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:32AM (#2378067) Homepage
    This sort of biometric authentication is not really all that vital for most of us, and the effort required to keep it functional, in this case at least, outweighs any advantage gained.

    Don't get me wrong -- I can see this being very useful for corporations and governments who have valuable information to keep encrypted. For those applications, this is a good idea.

    The problem I see is that fingerprint sensors require maintenance. The human fingertip exudes oil, used to increase the traction of the fingertip. This is not good for a sensing surface, and will necessitate regular cleaning. Anyone who has owned a trackball can tell you that anything the finger touches regularly, builds up gunk quickly.

    Another problem is susceptibility to damage -- scratches in particular. I wouldn't want to be locked out of my files due to clumsiness. Also, damage to the recognition system through any form of clumsiness will keep you out of your encrypted files. Using an ordinary encryption method, you'd just hook the HD up to a different machine and be back in business.

    I'll assume that the device is good enough to detect your print accurately. I wouldn't think the company would willingly release a half-engineered product in such an important area as authentication.

    • Another reason it might not be useful (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @10:56AM (#2378461)

      How many bits worth of unpredictable information, exactly, is in a fingerprint? I know it's "a lot", but is it enough? 48 bits is "a lot" too, but it has been demonstrated to be not enough for protection against a simple brute-force attack.

      Ultimately, it's all just bits. This fingerprint-recognition device ultimately must convert your fingerprint into a binary key, and use that key to perform the encryption/decryption. If someone can get a copy of your encrypted data, they could run it through software which tried binary keys until it found the right one. If the adversary could lift your fingerprint from something you've touched, that might give them information which helps them narrow down the search.

      Until I found out just how many keys they'd have to try before exhausting the keyspace, I wouldn't trust this to be secure. A good mixed-case/numbers password with a - or ! (et al) thrown in can easily have 67**8 > 48-bit strength. A 5-word english passphrase can have up to 38619 ** 5 > 76-bit strength (38619 words in /usr/dict/words, and that's assuming no case variations). For very secure stuff, I'll keep a 1024-bit RSA keypair on a floppy disk in my lapel (no, I'm not just being a smart-ass, I already do this.)

      Seriously, though, does anyone know the strength of a key generated by Acer's gizmo? And how much it might be narrowed down with a sample fingerprint to work from?

      -- TTK [ciar.org]

    • umm, a friend of mine had her laptop stolen from her house off campus this year. She ended up getting a laptop w/a thumb print authentication and it works quite well.

      She said that other people in her house were all pissy (girls, go figure ;) b/c those w/o computers were using her laptop to talk on AIM but can't now.

      Seems to work just fine. Kinda cool as far as I am concerned. Although I really don't know how effective this is for stopping stealing.
  • Data Glove That Turns Gestures Into Commands [slashdot.org]
    and
    Body Powered Batteries -- Thermoelectrics [slashdot.org]
    and you have total wearible personalized computer!
  • this will only keep out your friends. Your enemies would just steal your notebook and then take it apart and eventually get the stuff off your hard drive from another machine.

    At least this is a step in the right direction.
  • ...when all you really have to do is set a strong BIOS boot password. Of course, even that can be reset by clearing the CMOS, but i'm sure this fingerprint recognition system works the same way.


    This should definitely add to the FUD-factor at your local Best Buy, though...i can see it now:


    Salesman: But if you don't have fingerprint recognition, ANYONE can get into your private personal super-top-secretest files!!! Even TERRORISTS!!!!

    Customer: I'll take fifteen of 'em!!!

  • I'd hope that they've tested this thing 9 ways from Sunday. Hate to be 6-12 months into my ownership of one of these, and suddenly have the scanner stop working. Let's hope it's a rugged, fail resistent (IE, SIMPLY made), piece of hardware, that can be overridden by some alternate means.

    I like the idea of a backup password to allow you to still boot the machine should fingerprint ID not work. It's not quite as secure as the standard "Have something, know something" protocol, but it'd at least let you check your email until the scanner could be replaced.
    • Autonomy: what does "up to 4 hours" mean? (hint on my personnal laptop, this means 2 hours)
    • Modem: Winmodem or real modem?
    • Finger print stuff: Do they give this detector's specs? what about a Linux driver? (Could be fun to bypass the Linux login sequence or ssh communication keyboard-oriented establishment)...
      BTW, what if I scorch my finger?(I guess it could work but I would like to be sure)

    Finally, some more details are given just a click deeper [acer.com]...
  • When the laptop is stolen, if the thief tries to log in, perhaps it could let them continue a bit while it sends the fingerprint to the police for identification.

    Damn, I should've patented this instead of releasing it to public domain by posting in a public forum!

  • Office Max (and I am sure others) sell a $50 USB finger print reader. I have always thought it would be cool to make a driver for this in Linux. It could also be used to loggin, protecte files, etc.

    Anyone wanna help?
  • What happens if something goes wrong with the
    finger print reader?

  • Acer (Score:1)

    by jmu1 ( 183541 )
    Ok, does anyone remember acer desktop machines?

    Is there any reason that we would want to buy a piece of malfunctioning junk like that again, even if it does have it's own paranoia system installed?

    Perhaps if it were a company that didn't make utter junk, I would consider it. But then again, I'm not stupid enough to put data that sensitive on a bloody laptop!

  • My guess is that it's only intended to protect the data, and that you could still use the laptop itself if you formatted or something. If you want real security on your laptop, install lo-jack. Or go retro and just handcuff it to yourself like those guys with the briefcases.
  • I've had an old older model travelmate with fingerprint recognition for over 6 months now.

    I don't use it because I'm worried I won't be able to get back in. (apparently even different levels of grease on your fingers can throw off the sensor)

    If you use it for you hard drive, and you get locked out, you have to ship the drive back to the manufacturer so they can physically reset it.

    I'll stick to passwords for now.
  • Is a thief more likely to:

    a) Read the warning label before taking it, or;

    b) Take it and see what he's got later?

    If b), you've lost it anyway...
  • You can have my laptop when you pry it out of my cold-dead-er-nevermind.
  • "...a 15-inch screen with a resolution of 1400 by 1050 pixels..."

    When will these types of screens be available in standard laptops??? I'm not interested in the finger print technology, I just want that display!!!
    • > When will these types of screens be available in standard laptops???

      Dell has been selling their Inspiron 8000 with 1400x1050 and 1600x1200 screens for quite some time. I have the 1400x1050 display, and it's very nice indeed. Not to mention the Dolby Digital sound, TV out, dual monitor capability (LCD + external), or 1394 port.

  • bah (Score:2)

    by British ( 51765 )
    Forget the finger print, how about that resolution!?

    1400 by 1050 pixels? That's better than my desktop's!
  • This would be a great way to both improve ese of use, and security at the same time. no more repeaded logins to do simple maintenace.

  • False security is worse than no security (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pesc ( 147035 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:46AM (#2378138)
    The article fails to give a technical explanation on exactly how the fingerprints enhance security. Does anyone here really believe that this laptop can protect its data when it is stolen? In order to do that it must encrypt the data on the disk.

    Using what encryption key? Your fingerprint? Does anyone believe that your fingerprints are secret? You are putting thousands of copies of your prints on various objects every day. You probably have several fingerprints on your laptop! And once your secret encryption key becomes known, how do you change your key? :-)

    The key (sorry) to good encryption security is to change your keys often.

    Until a good technical description on the security is provided I will regard this laptop as techno-babble trying to impress PHB types.
    • Using what encryption key? Your fingerprint?

      Obviously not. More likely, a key generated at some point in the setup process, and your fingerprint is merely the passphrase to access the key. Same way PGP does it, really.
      • Actually most fingerprint scanners derive mathematical equations from the image of your fingerprint. Thats how the recognition part works. It wouldnt be much of a stretch to carry it over as part of the key used to encrypt the data.

        • Re:False security is worse than no security (Score:4, Informative)

          by Panaflex ( 13191 ) <`moc.oohay' `ta' `ognidlaivivnoc'> on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @10:33AM (#2378378)
          (disclaimer, I worked for a few years on a fingerprint security project)

          Actually, the problem is that you have to keep a copy of the fingerprint to match. Getting a copy of this fingerprint from disk or memory would be fairly simple.

          Also, you can not hash a fingerprint. Each scan of the same fingerprint is different from the previous one. You can't protect the b' enrolled fingerprint.

          The only way this would work is by:
          (a) using a dual password/biometric. The password would unlock the b' biometric(enrolled) and the fingerprint would be used to extract it.

          (b) using a hardware protection and matching system. Whereby the hardware is responsible for protecting itself. Simular to a smart card concept, the hardware would encrypt the data on disk, and also gather and match the fingerprints. Still, a bit of reverse engineering could defeat this. Also, a cheap fingerprint scanner could probably be fairly suseptable to rubber finger attacks. ;-)

          Pan

          • Re:False security is worse than no security (Score:5, Insightful)

            by hacker ( 14635 ) <hacker@gnu-designs.com> on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @11:22AM (#2378570)
            Having worked at $LASTJOB{PHARMA [pfizer.com]} where the FDA was looking over our potential implementatation of biometrics in wireless handheld webpads in 1998, I can tell you how this is done:

            CFR 21:11 [gpo.gov] , the Code of Federal Regulations, goes through this fully. In order to be "validated" as the real person, you must hold at least two of three key pieces of information:

            1. Something you have: A keycard, a physcal key, an iButton
            2. Something you know: A password, passphrase, memorized key
            3. Something you are: Iris scan, fingerprint, voice, some other biometric.
            . If you have two of those things, any two in combination, you are said to be one of two things:
            1. Truly that person to which the biometric belongs, or
            2. A conspirator, working with that person, since you cannot have obtained the second piece of information without consent from the holder

            This is how our Federal Government looks at it anyway.

            Biometrics have come a long way, and contrary to popular belief, this fingerprint-style technology does not compare a "picture" of your finger. It measures datapoints (the FingerChip [thomson-csf.com] for example, measures many more datapoints than most biometric scanners, and is a fraction of the size).

            The "retraining" you have to do is so that your "personality" is measured as one of the datapoints. If this was a signature capture biometric, it would measure whether or not you dot your "i" before your words are finished, or after. That "personality" is set in the equation as part of the measurement. This is why even if you have someone's signature on paper, and can replicate it perfectly freehand, a good biometric will rule it out, since the "personality" (speed to write, dot i's first/last, etc.) will certainly not match.

      • Obviously not. More likely, a key generated at some point in the setup process, and your fingerprint is merely the passphrase to access the key. Same way PGP does it, really.


        And when I have stolen your laptop, and I remove the disk and put it in my own Linux-controlled laptop, exactly how is the fingerprint scanner protecting the disk / flash ROM?

        And how is the "passphrase" in the scheme above secret? And how do I change it once it has become known?

        How does a "fingerprint scanning device" that operates with known inputs make ANY memory device (bar smartcards which isn't used here) on your stolen laptop "secret" from me?
        • Answer; it doesn't.

          The fingerprint idea will basically keep folks entertained at your next 2600 meeting, but it won't keep anybody out of your data other than casual intruders, who would have been just as easily kept out by a BIOS password. This product is snake-oil.
  • This sounds great, except for the fact that it's an Acer.

  • Acer laptops are impressive (Score:4, Interesting)

    by proxima ( 165692 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:47AM (#2378143)
    After doing some research, I recommended to my girlfriend that she buy an Acer laptop. The reasons were simple - it had a modem, ethernet, and wireless ethernet built in, it had a large 14" screen, and it was only 5.2 pounds with the dvd drive installed, 4.5 without, and came installed with Windows 2000.

    I looked at a variety of other laptops, especially Dell and Compaq, and none could build in everything (she wanted wireless ethernet for use at college and in the future) at such a low weight. The price wasn't too bad either, for last June - about $2100 including Windows 2000 and Office 2000 from CDW.

    When it arrived, there was a feature I sort of brushed over - a smart card reader. Its primary purpose in this laptop is to restrict access if the card is not installed. It looks like a credit card, and is easily removable. By default, the security settings are such that the smart card must be installed for the computer to boot. Of course, this isn't perfect protection against things like theft, but it is more convenient than a boot password to prevent people from simply using the laptop.

    So I am not surprised to see that Acer is leading the way with more laptop security features. I absolutely hate the many old desktops that I have had to fix over the years, but the quality of the laptops is quite nice. They fit a lot of features, including some pioneering ones, into a laptop that is comparable in price to Toshiba and Dell with less weight.

    • After doing some research, I recommended to my girlfriend that she buy an Acer laptop. The reasons were simple - it had a modem, ethernet, and wireless ethernet built in, it had a large 14" screen, and it was only 5.2 pounds with the dvd drive installed, 4.5 without, and came installed with Windows 2000.

      And without Windows 2000 installed it was only 1 pound right?
  • Linux users beware. I was the proud owner of a AcerNote 370. What can I say, it was cheap. Not only were the PC card slots sunk in to the case (sorry folks, no x-jack) but all of the nifty "features" like 0-power sleep mode, were Windoze drivers, i.e. wiping the hard drive and installing Slackware wiped out all those options. You get what you pay for I guess. I wrote Acer, hoping to maybe get some specs on the BIOS hooks so I could hack my own... no go. I would imagine this laptop is the same, with all the features meshed into W2k

    I've got my Vaio now, life is much better.
  • Pretty simple. This technique has proven itself at cash machines. Biometrics may marginally help prevent someone from stealing a machine outright when you're not there. So if someone really needs the data, it just means they're going to wait for the owner/key to arrive. Yoink.

  • Biometric Authentication Experience (Score:4, Troll)

    by Nishi-no-wan ( 146508 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @09:54AM (#2378172) Homepage Journal
    Finger print recognition has been a pain for me. We had it installed at work a few years ago, and it worked fine for the first couple of months. However, my hands start peeling due to dryness in the winter, and it soon came to the point that the system wouldn't let me in. This wouldn't have been a problem except that I was usually the first one to work in the morning, and was getting locked out.

    We tried registering all of my fingers to no avail. In the end, I got a magnetic card to get in.

    I had tried one of those systems where you sign for authentication, too. But it turns out that I can't write my own signature the same twice. I haven't had much luck in having biometric authentication figure out who I am.

    • Maybe the Yoyodyne computer knows the difference between Red Lectroids and Black Lectroids but nobody programmed the popup for it before the economy turned.

      --Blair
      "Requirements-based testing: it's not just for breakfast any more."
    • Finger print recognition has been a pain for me. We had it installed at work a few years ago, and it worked fine for the first couple of months. However, my hands start peeling due to dryness in the winter, and it soon came to the point that the system wouldn't let me in. This wouldn't have been a problem except that I was usually the first one to work in the morning, and was getting locked out.

      Yeah right. You're really just worried because your fingerprints might be hard to read after those late nights reading playboy.com

    • ...my hands start peeling due to dryness in the winter, and it soon came to the point that the system wouldn't let me in. This wouldn't have been a problem except that I was usually the first one to work in the morning, and was getting locked out.

      Locked out, standing in the cold, your hands getting dryer and less likely to work the next day. Oh my!

      We use a hand and plastic card system here for entry. It seems to work well. Key numbers work where there is no card reader or if you forget your card. The hand readers themselves tollerate changes in my hands from exercising, but not gloves, and are speedy. This might not work for a laptop, but it's tops for building entry.

  • Creepy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by zarathustra93 ( 164244 )
    I'm not so sure that biometrics are really a good idea. People have already pointed out various means to thwart the system, i.e. chop off your finger, put a gun to your head. Facial recognition systems have proven so far to be less than reliable. I don't understand how biometrics will make any information more secure than already well established best practices for security.

    This trend towards biometrics just seems like a way to make security somewhat brainless. The big problem is that security that is brainless isn't security.
  • Does this mean my clone can boot my laptop? Hope it's not my evil twin...
  • Until it spills out into the air via the "optional Acer InviLink IEEE802.11b wireless LAN PC Card." ;)
  • Hmm, so if you got in a car accident, and lost your hands - all your data would be totally and permanently unrecoverable?

    Will this drive up the incidence of finger mutilation as people could potentially try to hijack your computer?
  • It's easier to detect the authenticity of a finger than one might think.

    After being unable to activate my touchpad with anything other than my finger, my curiosity had been captured. After a great deal of experimentation, and actually getting 5 other engineers running around looking for something to fool the touchpad, we finally resorted to technical support. Here was my letter:


    I have a prosthetic limb which I am unable to use
    the synaptics touchpad with. I am unaware of the type of touch sensing it uses, and have been unsuccessful in my attempts to 'simulate' a fingertip on my prosthesis.

    I even bought a rubber hand and cut the finger off
    and stuck it to my prosthesis, but to no avail.

    I have also tried heating the prosthesis to my body temperature.

    The pad works fine for the other engineers in the
    group with real fingers, so I don't believe there is a problem with the pad itself.

    Do you have any suggestions for a tip I can use to
    properly activate the touchpad?

    If not, do you plan on releasing something I would
    be able to activate
    with a prosthesis?



    And their reply was:


    Hi Chris,

    Unfortunately, as you have discovered, our touchpad uses finger-sensing technology. Basically, the touchpad determines that a touch is made through the capacitance of the human body.

    I'm very sorry to say that we cannot recommend a
    product you can use to activate it at this time.

    Best regards,


    So what have we learned other than how fun messing with tech support can be? Even a heated pulsing finger isn't going to work if the electrical properties aren't right. Capacitance is a tough thing to trick. Try putting probe leads on two parts of a finger, and plot the voltage / current patterns. Very, very difficult to duplicate.

    Of course, medical science will always find a way to stick severed fingers on hands, and we know that your average bin Laden follower won't scoff at the replacement of one of his fingers with a victims...

  • Umm, this is OLD. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TrevorB ( 57780 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2001 @11:23AM (#2378582) Homepage
    A co-worker of mine got one of these Acer laptops with fingerprint recognition several months back, perhaps around April.

    The fingerprint recognition was OK for one person, but as soon as we tried to configure it to recognize two people, we had horrible problems. It seemed like there were differences between the BIOS level recognition and the software OS level recognition. We were eventually both locked out and just sent the laptop in to be reset.
  • .. adds your fingerprint to a global FBI like database, that is used with MS passport and knows all the porn sites you visit... once it knows who you are it does not let you out of its site..
  • The success of this technology is going to depend on what type of fingerprint image is being scanned.

    Is it photographic ? That is, the mechanism captures a photo of the fingerprint using lighting differences to create a pattern. If so, then what happens when I get the errant pen mark or paper cut across my finger ?

    Is it geographic ? There are some nifty technologies out there that either through sonographic or similar means create a viritual image of the fingerprint pattern. These are far more accomodating in ignoring things like dust, dirt, pen marks, paper cuts, chaffing/sluffed skin, boogers and other stuff that sticks to our hands.

    Does anyone know which type is being used on this laptop ?
  • cut off your finger accidentally and you won't be able to access your files. :-)
  • According to the Acer site [acer.com] the chip is made by Authentec, Inc. [authentec.com] (based in Florida); here are some more tech specs: Products [authentec.com]; and some other details are in their Media Coverage Archive [authentec.com].
  • I have two holes to punch into Acer's new notebook:

    (1) Their illustration of a Pentium III-M processor is good for a laugh. Check out the lower-right corner of the second page of the brochure [acer.com], and tell me that isn't an FCPGA Coppermine Pentium III sitting on top of a circuit board.

    (2) More than likely, they've implemented the hard drive protection using an IBM Travelstar [ibm.com] hard drive, which has a password-protection option (although this is very rarely used in the real world). Why am I poopooing this? Keep reading.

    Section 11.8 of the Travelstar 48GH Specifications [ibm.com] (page 87, PDF page 101) details IBM's security system. I would imagine this can be circumvented in one of two ways, the first being in the hard drive itself and the second being part of the notebook's security implementation.

    First, there's a Master Password in addition to the normal User Password. If you don't know what the Master Password is, and don't know that only you know both passwords, anyone with access to the Master Password (quite likely any high-level Acer technician) can send a Device Unlock command to the drive along with the Master Password and voilà, the oyster opens to reveal the pearls inside. (No, you can't read the passwords out of the drive's EEPROM; it's stored in a non-externally-addressable area of the disk. Even if you know and control both passwords, though, I'd imagine there are undocumented commands to reset the password or unlock the drive regardless of the password. If you're thinking that IBM would need to be able to unlock drives to refurbish/repair them, they wouldn't, because there's a command which will write zeroes to every externally-addressable sector on the drive then unlock the drive and erase the password. No hard drive maker that I know of guarantees the integrity of the data on any hard drive that's sent to them.)

    Second, I'd be very surprised if they had gone any further than storing the Travelstar's access password in CMOS or an EEPROM part, and sending it to the drive if the fingerprint matches what's stored there as well. (They couldn't store a one-way hash of the drive password, because any obfuscation would have to be reversable to be able to feed the password to the drive.) Therefore, anyone with an SMD rework station and an EEPROM reader could probably extract the password from the CMOS/EEPROM.

    In summary, I wouldn't trust state secrets to this. I would recommend PGP Corporate Desktop [pgp.com] instead as the closest thing a mortal can get to decent data security. (An interesting aside: You know how the government erases drives holding classified information before they're resold? They don't. The drives are physically destroyed. For good reason. [google.com])

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