Message from Kabul 776
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.
Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)
"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.
Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.
If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.
There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one another all over the country; Junis isn't the only Afghan e-mailing these days. He says other coders and gamers hid their PC's as well. Meanwhile, he's especially eager to get his hands on the Apple iPod, and has been drooling over the Apple website site since he got back online. And some things, of course, never change. "I thought they were going to get Microsoft," he wrote. "I guess not."
A decade ago, when East Berlin teenagers stormed the Wall and crossed over into West Berlin, the first thing many of them did was rush to music stores to buy tapes and CD's they'd been secretly, illegally listening to for years.
The Taliban worked to create the antithesis of the American world, one without technology, computing, the Net, music, or any vestige of popular culture (not to mention women's rights, elections, a free press or any religion except fundamentalist Islam. Junis said people in his town risked their lives repeatedly, not to fight the Taliban, but to try and listen to CD's and watch videos smuggled in from Pakistan, watched in the dark under blankets and in cellars. It seems the outcome was inevitable.
Technology... (Score:3, Informative)
Bull all the way (Score:3, Interesting)
Stupidity.inc?
"Facts" on Afghanistan (Score:3, Informative)
1 The number of ISPs in Afghanistan (as of 2000)
NA The number of Internet users
10 The number of TV stations
100,000 The total number of TVs
14.7% The infant mortality rate
31% Literacy rate
$800 GDP per capita in 2000 (estimate)
Telephone system: general assessment: very limited telephone and telegraph service
domestic: in 1997, telecommunications links were established between Mazar-e Sharif, Herat, Kandahar, Jalalabad, and Kabul through satellite and microwave systems
international: satellite earth stations - 1 Intelsat (Indian Ocean) linked only to Iran and 1 Intersputnik (Atlantic Ocean region); commercial satellite telephone center in Ghazni
CIA factbook is a problematic source (Score:5, Informative)
Another problem is that some figures are pretty difficult to estimate. Consider "Internet users", for example. For Uzbekistan [cia.gov], for example, it lists 42 ISPs and 7500 Internet users. How on earth did they get that number? What constitutes an "Internet user"? How do they count Internet cafés which are really widespread in the cities of poorer countries, for example? Is an Internet café a single Internet user, or do they count the 100 or 200 regular café users individually? In the first case, the figure means nothing at all, in the second, it's plain wrong from personal experience.
Also, you never know precisely when they collected their data, which, in telecommunications or computing, does make quite a bit of a difference.
In general, be as careful with the CIA factbook as with any other source. In spite of the label, it does not only contain accurate facts, and the label "CIA" does not necessarily imply correctness of information.
Hmmm. (Score:5, Interesting)
He's trying to download movies on a Commodore?
Re:Hmmm. (Score:2, Insightful)
yeah I wondered about that too.
Maybe it's an Amiga, although my mental picture was a dusty C-64, tape drive and 300 bps modem.
Amiga perhaps? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Amiga perhaps? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm. (Score:3, Insightful)
There hasn't been enough time for the "little village" to be sent new computers, and how does he even know how to connect to the internet? Dial into his local IP? Junoweb?
Next question. What, in gods name, does this have to do with slashdot? News for nerds?
I hate to flame/troll whatever, but I read this comment [slashdot.org] last Katz article, and I'm starting to agree with it...
Re:Hmmm. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep. I didn't want to be the one to say it, because I fear the mighty, mighty hand of Pro-Katz moderation, but the entire article smells like fiction.
"He just dug out his commodore, one of the only 4 in the village, and now he's pirating movies and is "mesmerized" by open source and slashdot."
I mean, you'd figure that anyone who can get a gnutella client working from a warzone has heard of linux before.
Re:Hmmm. (Score:3, Interesting)
There hasn't been enough time for the "little village" to be sent new computers
Sheesh... All you people saying things like this. Did you read the whole piece? He dug it out from under a chicken coop where it was hidden. Since he can watch movies with it, we should probably assume it's the more capable Amiga and not the C-64. A lot of people buried their contraband and waited out the Taliban. That itself is interesting--I'm sure some of those people died and left behind techno time capsules.
and how does he even know how to connect to the internet? Dial into his local IP? Junoweb?
It wouldn't surprise me if they were using some ancient phone system that was really easy to bluebox. The threat of losing your right hand has proven more effective than 128-bit encryption. Also, if he can dial Pakistan, he can probably dial a Pakistani ISP. Also, no FCC there! I bet they can amp their 802.11b all the way to Islamabad and back. If it were me though, I'd just waltz into what used to be the Taliban NOC and run CAT-5 from there.
Anyone who can "first post" from a former Taliban NOC should get some kind of a prize... Penguin mints or something.
Re:Hmmm. (Score:3, Interesting)
I checked the number of users from Afghanistan who were using Audiogalaxy [audiogalaxy.com]. There were TWO. Today (as of this moment) there are ONE HUNDRED TWENTY THREE. Allow for some errors here. They may not all truly be from Afghanistan but I'd bet that a good portion of them are. It certainly sounds like an increase.
Welll... (Score:5, Informative)
silly question for katz (Score:2)
Re:silly question for katz (Score:2)
A professional programmer in Afghanistan is likely to have access funds and resources that the average person does not.
Re:silly question for katz (Score:2, Insightful)
Downloading movies on a Commodore? (Score:2, Insightful)
Still, interesting story.
poor bastards... (Score:2)
But Baywatch
Jon, you were trolled (Score:5, Funny)
How can this Afghani geek afford an Ipod? When did DSL/broadband get into Kabul?
This story sounds fishy, but then it is Tuesday.
Uhhhhh... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Uhhhhh... (Score:3)
The only other alternative would be that Katz is outright making it up, but much as I've disagreed with him before, I don't think he would stoop that low.
Re:Uhhhhh... (Score:2)
I only wish that Katz had posted the email, rather than just talking about it. His comments don't always ring true. For example: nobody in Asia would think of martial art's movies as coming from America. Think Bollywood, not Hollywood!
Re:Uhhhhh... (Score:2, Insightful)
a forwarded e-mail from Junis
routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London
Ok, so the people who said "How did he get Katz's email address!" didn't read that it was forwarded to John from someone in London.
Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired
And it seems to me that the folks suggesting this is just another typical internet chain-email hoax missed the part where Junis had written to Katz before! Come on people. Just because you don't personally know anyone in Kabul, Islamabad, or London doesn't mean that a well known journalist (and he is well known, and respected, in geek journalist circles) wouldn't have enough connections to get an interesting email from someone in a newsworthy place.
Could it all be made up as a device for another article overusing the phrases "geek", "open-source", and other buzz-words about the pervasiveness of the net and the radical societal shifts brought about by the rise of the geeks? Sure.
Could the government be hiding evidence of alien landings at Roswell and poisoning our water with mind-control flouride so we won't notice the UN's silent black helicoptors when they come to impose the oppressive new world order and take our guns away? Um...sure.
Too many people want to validate conspiracy theories instead of debating the ideas Katz brings up.
- StaticLimit
What should be required to back up a story? (Score:3, Interesting)
The way I see it, sufficient proof would be full email headers, substantiating email from each member of the forwarding chain, photos of the much ballyhoo'd Commodore (preferably playing a downloaded copy of The Phantom Edit), and ISP records proving that movies could be (and had been) downloaded on the outskirts of Kabul. Or alternatively, I guess a video interview with the dude in Afganistan might suffice, though it's not like Jon can just hop on a flight to Kabul (unless he enlists in the special forces
Frankly, that's a pretty heavy burden of evidence to place on any journalist and especially here on Slash-(We'll post obvious product advertising literature sent from company email addresses)-dot. I'd be curious what sort of evidentiary standard reporters are generally held to at upstanding newspapers and magazines.
Screw on-topic! Let's start a thread...
What is reasonably required to back up a journalist's story? And especially here on Slashdot (Katz, Taco, rest-of-crew feel free to chime in [unlikely]... or mod down [more likely])
- StaticLimit
Former corrispondance... (Score:2)
The big question (Score:4, Funny)
Well, half the population is less oppressed... (Score:5, Interesting)
But the women aren't allowed in the theater, they can't function in public, and they still aren't allowed to see doctors. It's not that removing the Taliban is a bad thing, but for a significant part of the population, the current status really hasn't gotten any better.
Food for thought, and it makes me thankful that I was born in the US and have the ability to say such things...
Re:Not to sound like an asshole, but... (Score:4, Informative)
Mankind is my business, and yours too. Enslave someone *anywhere*, and I have the moral right to stop you. Morality does not stop at national borders.
Ask orthodox Jews or the Amish if they'd like to be forced to "modernize", and see what they think!
The Taliban forced people to do things they didn't want to do. It's not like all of Afghanistan sat down and agreed, "OK, women stay at home, don't get schooling, and have to wear burqas." People with guns forced others to behave that way.
Morality is not globally valid (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not as simple as that. Do you have the right to e.g. punish someone that thinks he/she is doing the right thing, no matter what organisation, religion or culture that person belongs to?
You don't have the right to force someone to do (or don't do) something unless that other person "agrees" (has the same cultural, religious or ethnic backround, or lives in the same country and abides to the same laws).
I think things like for example the U.N. declaration of the human rights are good things, but some other things don't simply have global validity. You take them for granted, like double glased windows, central heating, universities without fees, and taking your shoes off when going indoors (I'm a Swede), but everyone else does not. You can't enforce things like that, not even the U.N. declaration of human rights, on anyone.
Enforcing a way of life upon someone is wrong. It is a violation of the integrity of the other person. It is denying everything that the other person is.
I'm not saying it's wrong to stop people hurting each other. I'm saying it's way wrong to call it your moral right to do so, because morality is not global.
And don't forget: The conflict in Aghanistan exists because of American foreign policy, because of economics, because of oil. Prove me wrong.
5000 people is a small prise to pay to ensure that ones interests in the middle east are not jeopardised. Don't come talking about moral, because moral is nothing.
Re:Morality is not globally valid (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm 28, and you're a troll, but I'm replying nontheless.
No I'm not flaming. I'm pointing out stuff that can and should be viewed in another perspective if one only cares to think for a while. What I was "flaming" about was the fact that the OP (you? I didn't really take note of who wrote it) assumed that he/she had some kind of moral right towards people with a totally different way of thinking.
I haven't had marshmallows for ages. Too much sugar. And I don't have supper, I have dinner.
Nope, I'm not saying that it's okay to kill 5000 people. I'm saying that the U. S. of A. is using the relatively small number of deaths in the WTC crash (and in terrorist attacks generally) as a means of expanding their economical influence in (and gain from) the middle eastern region. It's all economics. That's how countries work, and it doesn't have anything to do with moral.
There are other causes of death, some of which are directly sponsored by large industries (guns, tobacco, cars and oil), that are far more common than death by terrorist attack. The sad thing is that these other causes are all "normal" and "acceptable" due to them being part of the American way of life.
I'm also saying that the people who did the flying and they who did the planning of the WTC crash were "right". They thought they were right in just the same way as most Americans apparantly [we are told] thinks it's correct to bomb the living daylights out of Afghanistan and it's people. They would probably say, just as you are, that they had the "moral right" to do it.
Did you say I was flaming? :-) Are you assuming that I am religious in any way? I'm an anarchist [anarchistfaq.org], I believe in my right to express myself and to think whatever thoughts I want. I don't believe in being opressed by imaginary entities.
Sorry, but that is totally wrong.
People that do good doesn't need to know a thing about what's right and what's wrong for anyone. Only you can decide what's right for you.
It's a species, not a race. And I'm already part of it, thank you.
Re:Not to sound like an asshole, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
It may not be any business of yours, but I'm making it my business. You can try to stop me, but you won't do so with words.
If your only issue is whether the people in these places want change, that's an easy question to answer: they do, go visit one of these countries sometime and ask.
If you were truly correct that the people in these societies liked the conditions they lived under, it would be a different matter. The fact is, though, most of them don't; however, brutal police states, corrupt governments, and lack of resources stops most of them from doing anything about it.
I've travelled and lived in Africa, and travelled in the Middle East, and what you often see is similar to what used to happen in the Soviet Union: people do the things people do anyway, if they can get away with it, but they do it underground and at serious risk to their lives and freedom. You may not care about this, but having lived in environments like this, I do.
And, despite your belief that "putting our nose in somebody else's business" got us into this, one can make a credible argument for the opposite being true: the U.S. has remained too hands-off in its foreign policy, only getting involved when it has a clear, direct strategic interest in a particular situation. The reasons for this foreign policy date back to World War II and Vietnam. However, this may not be in the the US's own interest. It means that from the point of view of people in other countries, US involvement is capricious and unpredictable, leading to resentment when the US does or doesn't get involved in a situation where others think it should or shouldn't.
A policy based more clearly on things like human rights interest could actually go a long way towards improving America's reputation in the rest of the world, and would not necessarily cost significantly more money, since America could certainly get international backing and cooperation for such a policy.
Re:Well, half the population is less oppressed... (Score:3, Informative)
Forget the US Air Force, here comes the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)
Just a reminder... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, as nice as this sounds, the story is a little strange - I was under the impression there were almost no remaining international phone lines and that electricity was probably out in many of these areas, so I am a bit suspicious. But what do I know, maybe he has a generator and maybe the international phone lines are back up. Also the line about trying to download movies is definitely suspicious. At 9600 baud perhaps? OK, give them the benefit of the doubt, 28.8k. Doesn't sound too believable to me.
So I think this submission is either a bit of a hoax or a bit exaggerated, but it still is a nice sentiment even if the specifics are not true. And hopefully there is a guy somewhere in Afghanistan digging up his old Commodore.
Re:Just a reminder... (Score:2)
I'm just trying to figure out if Katz was trolled or if he is knowingly propagating false information. Journalistic integrity == 0.
Re:Just a reminder... (Score:5, Interesting)
I know, it's a little odd when you get hit with demands for factuality and proof. I mean, any of us who'd spent so much time writing opinion-based fluff would probably have a slightly hazy view of reality.
But for god's sake man.
Leaving aside the technical details already well-discussed, do us all a favor, and if it's not entirely a hoax, save whatever remains of your reputation and post the original email.
We're mostly big-boys here, post us a copy with the routing headers intact, give us the text, and then spend two or three hundred words pointing out how great it is.
We might still belive you got rooked, but at least we're less likely to attribute what prima facia appears to be a load of... um, horse-shit to you.
Re:Just a reminder... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Just a reminder... (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Back in 1995-1996 I was downloading plenty of movies at 9600 or 14.4 baud. They were all in the old ViVo format (.VIV which was purchased by Real a couple years later). I think the first one I ever downloaded was Boobwatch. Each movie was only about 60-100MB in size and could easily be downloaded overnight. The bitrate was HORRIBLE but back the thrill of downloading an ENTIRE MOVIE made up for it.
2) My only 486 could never in its wildest dreams play DivX, which is MPEG-4 and requires a crapload of processing power...but even a lowly 486 can handle MPEG-1 or low bitrate RealMedia. So I can believe it's possible to watch movies on even an old Commodore PC clone.
3) The warez scene outside the G8 looks completely different. There is virtually no sympathy for copyright interests, especially US ones. You are more than likely to find major warez sites being run from state-owned resources (I myself was once offered access to a site that resolved to something under iif.hu and, judging from the amount of information it contained, had obviously been running for months). The scene is usually very close knit and tight. If you only have one or two ISPs then you get to know the staff pretty intimately, and from there its very easy to develop a "communal software resource".
I think a good way to look at computer users in these underdeveloped countries is to compare them to HAM radio users. They have a piece of hardware that connects them to a larger community of users, and sooner or later they'll run into someone in their own area, and from there they can exchange contact with others they have met and boom, a local user group is born.
- JoeShmoe
Re:Just a reminder... (Score:5, Insightful)
It noted that the average household income in a "Blue" area pushed $100k, while the average household income in a "Red" area was about $42k. So why weren't the reds resentful towards the blues?
Cost of living.
An average house in a Blue area goes for $400,000-1.5 million. The same house in a Red area costs $140k or so. A $ 42k household can easily afford a $140k house. A $100k household cannot easily afford even a $400k house. So who is really better off economically, the Reds or the Blues?
I looked this up in realtor.com and sure enough, he was right. And he had other examples. He couldn't spend $20 a plate dining out in ANY Red restaurant. This, of course, is par for the course around the Blue parts of town. He got a parking ticket in Redsville, and it cost him $3 instead of $25. And so on.
The phenomenon is going to be even more extreme in Afghanistan, a country where the average income is not even possible to determine with any accuracy. $1,000 a year is a fortune over there, but that wouldn't even pay my phone+DSL bill for the same period.
If you could make $1,000 a year in Afghanistan, you might well be better off than people making $100k in San Francisco, because that $100,000 just doesn't go very far.
The catch, though, is that living in a Blue area is a lot more enjoyable for more sophisticated people then red areas. When I wandered through South Florida, I saw plenty of places where the only radio was some preacher talking about having us saved. Sadly, if you're a True Blue, even the cheapest housing in the world probably won't make you happy in a Red zone. And that may apply to foreigners, too.
D
(*) Sadly, the article is not online.
Re:The question is, why? (Score:3, Insightful)
The huge downside, of course, is that only the Blues that are wildly successful have even what might be considered a middle-class lifestyle in Red-land. I think this may be why many Blues have leftist voting records; they don't think of themselves as rich, even though technically they have lots more money than the rest of the country. I'm personally conservative because I deeply resent the government's share of my income, in view of the exceptionally poor quality of most government services. Because we have a progressive tax structure, "rich" blues who still can't afford a half-decent house are penalized more than Reds who can.
The sophisticated stuff does cost lots of money, but you can avoid it if you want, so that's not the total answer.
As Daniel (the anonymous coward below this post) said, it's harder to buy stuff in the Red zone; you can't get ballet tickets, and you can't get fantastic ethnic foods. Those things balloon Blue budgets beyond all reason. In Redworld, you are more or less forced to live within your means.
This is, of course, exactly why Blues are highly unlikely to venture into Redworld and be happy; we need (or think we need) that urban cornucopia of stuff.
D
In that case... (Score:2, Informative)
Hrm... I'm skeptic (Score:4, Insightful)
As for digging up all the forbidden stuff as soon while they could still see the dust from the trucks of the talibans, that is just plain unbelievable. I doubt anyone who's just lived under such an oppressive regime would take that risk. What if they forgot something and drive back up to get it? Just because the trucks have driven away doesn't mean they're gone for good.
I would think that people living under oppressive regimes develop a sort of natural paranoia as a survival mechanism... my father who lived most of his life in communist Romania still has it twenty years after fleeing the country... I find it surprising that afghans would lose it in minutes...
Daniel
Forgive me (Score:2, Insightful)
The people of Afghanistan don't have televisions, they don't have music, and they don't have telephones... but they have e-mail access one day after the Northern Alliance "liberates" the city? And, coincidentally, he likes Open Source and Slashdot? What???
I'm sorry, but I just can't honestly believe this story to be true without some kind of third-party verification. And even then, I'd still be skeptical. It just doesn't sound legit to me...
Re:Forgive me (Score:3, Funny)
Not that this doesn't sound a bit fishy to me as well, but I'd like to point out a couple things about Kabul that you may have missed:
These people may not have much, but they do seem to have a fair share of electronics.
No wonder America is viewed as corrupt (Score:4, Insightful)
So the top three TV shows mentioned in the story ("acutely missed" is the phrase connected to one of them) are Baywatch, Survivor, and Temptation Island?
Three shows based on the concept of manly men frolicking with scantily-clad women, and in the latter two, premised on the assumption that all humans are conniving backstabbers, and that relationships cannot last in the face of lust, respectively.
And we're trying to convince the Middle East that America is a just and moral nation? Ya ha ha, whatever.
Re:No wonder America is viewed as corrupt (Score:3, Insightful)
Hey, that is the Muslim heaven - the central concept that's been used to sell martyrdom to the religion. If we can't offer them at least this much, and on this earth rather then some future realm, we can't even begin to compete. Wait, we are offerring them this!
It may be crass, but it's a lot more just and moral than getting them so frustrated in this world that they kill for the false promise of the next one. Yeah, I hate those shows too ... but we win if we convince them we're more fun, as well as swing a mean sword of justice. You never win at the "morality" game, since morality is always defined by retrograde local religions, there as here.
What is the afghan's people perception? (Score:5, Funny)
What is the perception of the afghan's people about the US intervention? Do they feel that the sacrifice of innocents (accidents/mistakes on US forces part, but none less deadly) justify their new freedom? Do they feel that westerners should continue to use force to try to democratize Afghanistan? Or should the coalition now leave from their point of view?
I saw on TV an Afghan who lost 8 members of his family to US bombs. Yet, he had one message for the US forces: aim better. He did not asked to stop. Others though were very angry against the US after loosing some family member.
I want to know what the people of Afghanistan wants. I see some demonstrations in western countries asking for the bombings to stop. I say, that we might at least hear what the Afghan have to say. If they believe that the bombings are worthwhile, who are we to ask to stop these actions?
BTW, have you some websites/forums to suggest where we could directly interact with Afghanistan people? I would really like to have a few exchanges with some of them.
maybe too fast (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:maybe too fast (Score:2)
Afghanistan is among the world's poorest countries and has the lowest per-person food intake in the world
External constraints (Score:3, Insightful)
Having lived in Africa, I've seen firsthand how quickly, frighteningly so, things can change during a coup d'etat. People whose constraints have been mostly external for some time, lose control very quickly when those constraints are lifted, but within a few days things settle down and they regain their internal control/balance.
Answer some questions? (Score:3, Interesting)
holes in katz's story: (Score:5, Insightful)
1 - I know it's been said already, but it bears repeating...how does one download MOVIES on an "ancient commodore"? And furthermore, how does one play them?
2 - When you're living in Afghanistan, who do you call to get internet access?
3 - If the guy's using that "ancient commodore", what would prompt him to salivate over an IPod? First of all, it's doubtful that he would have ever acquired even a single MP3 file, let alone enough to fill an IPod. Oh, and Commodores didn't have firewire back in my day. Seems like the guy would be more likely to lust after a 2-year old Athlon system and a broadband connection rather than an IPod.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed this pile of absolute rubbish. Katz should be sent over to Kabul to investigate the situation himself.
As a separate point against this entire letter... (Score:5, Insightful)
This was bullshit. Sorry, but it *can't* be legit.
Suspicion (Score:2)
It looks like Katz is the butt of someone's joke. Without some backing evidence (such as complete mail headers showing routes, and evidence that the headers aren't forged), I consider this a kremvax [astrian.net].
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Did he send a picture too? (Score:2)
I tell my mother when she gets emails like the one you have, katz, is to first check snopes [snopes.com], then check the local news (if it isn't on the news, then it isn't real, usually).
Think about it. A computer geek in afghanastan finally gets his computer (commodore, mind you), and whats one of the first people he emails? Jon Katz? Hmmm....
Sorry, but I'm waaay to skeptic for this (and I'm religious...)
Global Village Returns... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'd never really thought of it before seeing this post, but the one common factor you always hear small town residents use to describe their lives is "Everyone Knows Everyone." I'm probably being a pollyana here, but I believe that the "Global Village" is doing the same thing, helping people throughout the world understand (and hopefully get along) with each other.
I had a grandfather who went to West Point and served with distinction in the U.S. Army in WWII. A good, honorable man in many ways, but also a bigot down to his bones. I can't help but wonder what sort of man he'dve been if he could've clicked on a website growing up and learned how people live in Saudi Arabia or Tokyo or even just the "wrong side of the tracks" in his hometown.
What the people want... (Score:2, Interesting)
WHOA! (Score:3, Funny)
haha I want a pink slip with Katz's name on it for Christmas.
Not that it really matters but... (Score:2)
It really comes down to this. This email is suspect because it is written in a very american perspective and anybody who has traveled extensively outside of the US knows that most of the world doesn't work or think this way. I feel this person would be just simply unable to gain the ideology expressed here. But on the other hand, I could be wrong.... -Sean
It's not that simple (Score:2)
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere
Surely life has improved tremendously in the few days since the Taliban left Kabul. And certainly many people are enjoying new (old) freedoms. However, your description is a gross exaggeration -- "everybody", "everywhere". Resistance groups like the RAWA have already expressed concern [false.net] that life under groups like the Northern Alliance will be like life in Afghanistan was in the years before 1996 -- still brutal and repressive, just not in the extreme. While the picture of people shaving their forced beards off in masses or playing music and partying is certainly relieving, it is contrasted by a reality of executions/murders and, likely, rape. (Also, to be sure, many people are quite happy with their beards and appreciated the censorship and repression by the Taliban, much like many Germans supported the nazis completely.) Save the picture of "liberated Afghanistan" for the day when Afghanistan is actually liberal.
Fortunately, the US government seems to be pushing for a secular Afghanistan, but do not be satisfied just because the Taliban are going into guerilla mode. The Northern Alliance are merely the lesser evil.
I'm sorry but (Score:2)
Gotcha.... (Score:2)
For godsake this sounds like the most hockum hooey I've heard in a long time. "Independence Day" as a movie to rent. Lets get this straight
30miles outside of Kabul there is a video shop (lets pretend that one is reasonable) which saved its copies of "Independence Day" which it was renting to an audience which in the vast majority of cases doesn't speak english.
Hokum, baloney and rubbish. This sounds about as likely as a lead balloon circumnavigating the globe. I've read some vomit inducing stuff here from Katz but this takes the biscuit. Quite simply unadulterated rubbish. Movies on a commadore, what browser is our Afghan friend using and what player ?
You've been had Katz by one of the most transparent hoaxes I've ever seen.
I have bridges you might want to buy.
Wrong, or just an exception to every rule? (Score:2)
Okay.
But could someone please explain to me about communist China?
Yeah, it was for his school project. (Score:5, Funny)
Hi, my name is Junis. I live in a town 35 miles from Kabul in Afganistan. I am doing a school project to see how many people can read an email in 30 days. Please forward this to everyone you know, and keep the headers intact.
Thank you, your pal,
Junis
P.S. I really like Jon Katz, he is great.
Post the email, Jon (Score:5, Insightful)
[mod this up if you agree -- I'm at the cap anyway, so I'm not KW'ing]
Re:Post the email, Jon (Score:2)
The relentless pressure... (Score:2, Funny)
Nice one Katz! (Score:2)
Way to tip off the world to the location of American special forces troops. Their blood is on your hands.
Idiot.
- Freed
Forward This To Everyone In Your Address Book!!!! (Score:2, Funny)
>>>>>>>>>>>the email have
>>>>>>>>>>a closing line
>>>>>>>>>kinda like my
>>>>>>>>>>subject line?
what a fantasy world... (Score:4, Insightful)
Jon, get this guy to write an article! (Score:2)
The best thing in the world, for the world, is for people there to get their experiences out!
Other related issues (Score:2)
If they aren't attacking our people, back off and leave 'em alone. If they are, destroy them, and let their people sort out the relacement themselves.
The best defense is a lack of enemies. That means don't create enemies, and once you have them, eliminate them.
Follow these instructions (Score:4, Informative)
2) go to the "authors" column, check "JonKatz"
3) click "submit"
One small nitpick (Score:3, Funny)
Easy on the 'Hoax!' shouts... (Score:4, Insightful)
If you got a random email from someone you've never heard of from a
Baz
Re:Easy on the 'Hoax!' shouts... (Score:4, Insightful)
1. He and three other villagers had Commodores in hiding (presumably because that's all they could acquire) for 5 years, yet he's a "computer geek obsessed with Linux". Where was he able to get a Linux box and play with it enough to become obsessed?
2. He's trying to download movies he's missed despite the fact that one minute of a movie is probably larger than the amount of RAM on a Commodore. In addition, is there an OS for any Commodore computer that can play MOV, AVI, MPEG or other movie files? How about VCD images? That would be news to me and a lot of other people here.
3. American TV has been banned for the reign of the Taliban, as have computers and Internet connections. Yet he can already predict (in the few days he's been browsing the web, presumably) that "Survivor" and "Temptation Island" will be big hits over there. How the hell did he even find out about these shows, let alone learn enough about them to claim that Afghanis will fall in love with them?
4. iPod was just released, yet he knows he already wants one. Hell, I haven't had the chance to go to the Apple store 5 miles from my house to see if I want one. You would think that the oppression he's been under would drive him (and others) to want a stable food supply and guaranteed shelter before wanting an MP3 player that doesn't interface with a Commodore computer.
5. "I thought they were going to get Microsoft"? Huh? Would this even have been big news in Afghanistan 5 years ago, when the Taliban took over? I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong.
All of this just seems a little...odd. If I had just gotten out from under the boot of an oppressive government, I'd be concerned more about my immediate future than downloading entertainment from a network that had morphed into something completely different over the last 5 years.
And I don't at all mean this as a troll -- if someone with knowledge of the situation over there could explain how someone with so little access to the rest of the world could know so much about a foreign country, I'm sure we'd all be much abliged. According to the article, he (and possibly other people) are addicted to Slashdot -- Afghanis, if you're out there tell us the truth!
greg
Yeh, right. (Score:4, Insightful)
And as others mentioned, you can't download movies to a commodore, it just wont happen And he wouldn't have been able to do 'modern' programming on it for a long time. While I have heard reports of video stories and movie theaters opening back up, they're more likely to renting Indian and Pakistani films. Although I'm sure some people go for the American ones as well.
And comments about the iPod and Macs? Yeh, right. This sounds like more of a katzian fantasy to me. How would he even hear about the thing? And why would he want it rather then more reasonable mp3 players. After all, on a pure modem link he isn't going to be able to download movies.
And unless the northern alliance has managed to get DSL installed in the past few days, he isn't going to be downloading movies no matter what computer he has.
Katz if you have an journalistic credibility, post the actual message.
No. (Score:5, Interesting)
Still, the guy must be brilliant - not only has he got a five year old Commodore to get onto the Apple site, with a five year old browser, over non-existent phone lines but he's planning on spending five years wages on an ipod too?
It's bollocks.
I've been to the area [benhammersley.com] and know the sort of conditions. First up, if anyone is using email in Afghanistan it is not over the standard POTS. If much of that is still remaining, it is in no way any condition to get a data connection over. Internet connections in Afghanistan are satellite (Bin Laden's is, so are the Aid Agencies and the journalists). So unless our hero has a either a sat phone, or a 3ft dish in his back garden, I doubt he sent an email from anywhere in the area.
"Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London" is not the way it would go - if I remember correctly, the main Pakistani bandwidth goes via Singapore. Unless Katz means this email was sent to someone in Kabul who forwarded it to someone etc etc etc.
In which case I'd hazard a guess to say the first passing was on paper, not electronically.
Next, "Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)"
Well, Hotwired's URL was first registered on 21-Apr-1994, but Katz's first writings were on Netizen. That started in 1996. The Taliban took Kabul in 1996, so Junis must have been quick. Obsessed with Linux then, sure - but now mesmerized by open source?
Which brings us to I thought they were going to get Microsoft," he wrote. "I guess not."
How did he know of the court case? Meanwhile, where did he learn perfectly idiomatic English? "Get" Microsoft? I "guess not"?
Temptation Island? Survivor? Riight - an area that until a week ago was isolated from the rest of the world is now aware and anticipatory of a tv show that is not even being aired on a nearby satellite network?
I'd love to believe this, I really would. But it's smelly as all hell, not to mention the highly dubious "they did it all for the toys" politics.
Still, if JK posts the email, with the headers, I'll be happy to believe, and drink a toast to Junis and his friends.
hoax (Score:4, Funny)
((satire))
Cheers,
-- RLJ
if you're not getting the joke [somethingawful.com]
Internet in Afghanistan highly doubtful (Score:5, Informative)
Now, in Uzbekistan I had quite trouble getting Internet access outside the larger cities such as Samarqand or Tashkent; in rural areas, where you've partly still got manually switched telephone lines, you can just about forget it. It's Soviet telecom infrastructure, basically.
So how on Earth is this guy supposed to have Internet access in rural Afganistan where you can't even take it for guaranteed that there's electricity or running water, let alone toilets or telecom infrastructure? (All of this experienced in southern rural Uzbekistan.)
So either this guy has a satellite phone and a generator hooked up to his ancient Commodore to download movies with, or he's in one of the rare villages with running telephone on a one-phone-per-village basis and continually occupies it for use with the 1200 baud acoustic coupler modem and his Commodore to download movies and inform himself about getting Linux on his Commodore, or this is just a hoax.
The sad thing is that it's such a primitive hoax in the first place - just like the "technology conquers all" nerd variation of the romantic patriotic young outlaw theme.
So unless I get to read the original e-mail including forward information some time soon, JonKatz goes down in the dumpster for me.
Secret documents, smuggled out of Osama's cave (Score:5, Funny)
We've all been putting in long hours but we've really come together as a group and I love that. Big thanks to Omar for putting up the poster that says "There is no I in team" as well as the one that says "Hang In There, Baby." That cat is hilarious. However, while we are fighting a jihad, we can't forget to take care of the cave. And frankly I have a few concerns.
First of all, while it's good to be concerned about cruise missiles, we should be even more concerned about the scorpions in our cave. Hey, you don't want to be stung and neither do I so we need to sweep the cave daily. I've posted a sign up sheet near the main cave opening.
Second, it's not often I make a video address but when I do, I'm trying to scare the most powerful country on earth, okay? That means that while we're taping, please do not ride your razor scooter in the background. Just while we're taping. Thanks.
Third point, and this is a touchy one. As you know, by edict, we're not supposed to shave our beards. But I need everyone to just think hygiene, especially after mealtime. We're all in this together.
Fourth: food. I bought a box of Cheeze-Its recently, clearly wrote "Osama" on the front, and put it on the top shelf. Today, my Cheeze-Its were gone. Consideration. That's all I'm saying.
Finally, we've heard that there may be American soldiers in disguise trying to infiltrate our ranks. I want to set up patrols to look for them. First patrol will be Omar, Mohammed, Abdul, Akbar, and Richard.
Re:Secret documents, smuggled out of Osama's cave (Score:5, Informative)
-tim
So how do we contact somebody in Afghanistan? (Score:3, Interesting)
Disgusting (Score:5, Interesting)
1.) Please remove this article at once. It is a filthy assortment of random lies and is an embarrassment to the
2.) Please strongly consider firing Jon Katz for his lack of journalistic integrity. Better yet, decide via a Slashdot poll.
3.) A major improvement to Slashcode would be a system by which readers can moderate the posting of articles on the main page.
That being said, I am all for the overthrow of the Taliban regime and the restoration of the rights and freedoms of the Afghan people.
Cultural Narcotic (Score:4, Insightful)
People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing,
American culture is all of those things.
The tidal wave of American culture is frightening and Borg like.
As long as it is seen this way, reactionary forces will gain support from the many who watch with despair as traditional culture and values developed over many centuries are replaced within a generation with what comes over satellite television from America.
It's too bad we're incapable of giving the Afghans freedom, democracy and human rights without simultaneously injecting a huge dose of consumerism laced with appeals to lust and violence.
Oh well, I suppose I can't fault the rest of the world for falling into the same traps that my fellow Americans have for decades. Don't like it? Don't watch it.
In additional amusing news (Score:3, Funny)
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0147/ridgewa
WASHINGTON, D.C.-Suddenly, Al Qaeda doesn't look so smart. Just
yesterday, a Times of London reporter found a cache of plans, left in
a Kabul home as the Taliban retreated, that included notes for making
a thermonuclear device. The papers sent a chill through the Western
world, since they appeared to indicate sophisticated designs for an
atom bomb.
Now the online Daily Rotten says at least part of those documents
photographed by the Times are taken verbatim from a "semi-famous"
pseudo-document that has been circulating on the Internet for years.
It's a reprint of a scientific parody called "How to Build an Atom
Bomb," from the geek-humor newsletter Annals of Improbable Research,
originally known as the Journal of Irreproducible Results.
In his report for the BBC, reporter Anthony Loyd held some of the
papers up for the camera, giving a glimpse of documents the Daily
Rotten now compares to the 1979 parody.
Even the language Loyd uses to paraphrase the abandoned material
sounds like that of the satirical document.
Describing the scene in a Times article, Loyd wrote: "The vernacular
quickly spun out of my comprehension but there were phrases through
the mass of chemical symbols and physics jargon that anyone could
understand, including notes on how the detonation of TNT compresses
plutonium into a critical mass producing a nuclear chain reaction and
eventually a thermo-nuclear reaction . . .
The parody document reads: "The device basically works when the
detonated TNT compresses the Plutonium into a critical mass. The
critical mass then produces a nuclear chain reaction similar to the
domino chain reaction . . .
a big thermonuclear reaction. And there you have it, a 10 megaton
explosion!"
To find these faux atomic-bomb plans, do a Web search for "The device
basically works" or "Let's Build an Atomic Bomb!" instructs the Daily
Rotten. "It gives us pause and joy to know the Taliban are wasting
their time downloading what amounts to joke mail and spending time
trying to discern the facts therein."
Homeland security secretary Tom Ridge acknowledged the plans had been
found, but downplayed their importance. With this Daily Rotten report,
the public may get a glimpse of why.
Reached at the Pentagon spokesperson Major Tim Blair said, "I can't
comment on that. You can find all kinds of reports, and you have to
look at which ones are credible. We issue briefings and press
releases, but we don't talk about anything dealing with intelligence.
I'm not throwing stones, but the media should check the credibility of
their sources. You all have to do your job."
The foreign editor who handled the story for the Times was not
immediately available for comment.
--
I have to say ... (Score:3, Interesting)
... this is a ridiculous concoction. Digging up a computer after it's been buried 4-5 years? Um, even leaving a computer in a hot trunk all weekend can cause it to fry ... 4-5 years of climate changes, dirt, moisture ???? Watching video on a Commodore computer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but an "ancient" Commodore is not even as powerful as a gameboy or an old HP scientific calculator. And internet access - from a string tied between two empty bean tin cans?
Katz, either you are (A) purposely perpetrating a propaganda fraud or (B) so fucking clueless that you would buy into a hoax email and trot it out as a feature story or (C) got your dates confused and thought it was April 1 today but that would be a sick joke ...
That does it ... as soon as I post this, I'm going to set my /. preferences to filter out all "stories" by Katz. If I want Cinderella tales or bedtime stories, I'll go see the new Harry Potter movie ...
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:2)
Sooo. (Score:2)
Good thing I don't give a damn about karma.
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:2)
Um, if the stuff is *hidden* from the Taliban, how are they supposed to just destroy it? They did destroy everything they could--just look at those 1800 year old Buddha statues they blew up in March.
Sort of like the drug "war" in the US--according to your logic, the US government should be able to find drugs and get rid of them in a moment, even though they are right under their noses.
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's ridiculous that Katz should take this at face value, or that /. editors would pass this on without comment. The minor effort required to check even one of the outlandish "facts" in this piece would have been worth some effort.
This is really sad. I've been after Katz to look at his journalistic basics since the day he decided that ABC TV was "wrong" when they used a hidden camera, wielded by a paid undercover operative, to show Red Lion supermarkets selling rotten meat.
He claimed that it was "unethical" to get a job at Red Lion with a falsified job app, even if you already knew potentially lethal poison was being sold to people.
At the time he was celebrating a decision (later overturned) that would have hog-tied such investigative practices.
He doesn't understand the basic debt that a journalist owes his readers, and probably never will. One can only hopes that he takes this embarassment as a lesson.
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:3, Insightful)
I must say though, it makes me feel a little sick that the first thing the Afghans will see when they brush the soil from the TVs will be Jerry Springer, Temptation Island and MTV...
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:2)
Nope, there would be a mass march of gun owners on Washington, loaded and ready.
This will never happen, though, because only the Amish and Luddite freaks don't see the value of technology. Even the most rigid fundies still want to be able to proselytize via the net.
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems you've lost a lot of freedom recently - I haven't seen anyone march. Besides do you seriously believe a group of disorganized people with handguns an rifles is actually a match for the US army - one of the most modern and best trained armies in the world? Didn't work terribly well for the Taliban just now, did it?
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:2)
DB
Re:Hmm, sounds odd... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the point, with new technology they can fry all the fish. Traffic analysis, vacuum cleaner information gathering. Collect them all, and let the database sort them out.
Here's the kind of thing that could happen: Intellegence could find out that I've gotten copies made at BestCopy in Toronto (credit card) which was connected with Bin Laden, Bonk! My security risk karma gets a +1. So more automatic tests get run. Maybe I made a phone call to the next-door neighbour of a gun-runner, Bonk! I've mentioned gun-powder on Usenet, Bonk! I associate with the notorious Keith Henson, charged with threatening $cientology with weapons of mass-distruction, Bonk! And so it goes... Wider and wider searches that find possible and maybe connections.
The trouble with systems that collect everything is that there will be a temptation to automatically create profiles, and if it's not done right, some innocent person's security risk karma could max out -- and we're weakening the rules on innocent until proven guilty.
Sounds it sounds paranoid, but security agencies are paranoid by nature, and have to look at possibles and maybes.
If you want an excellent look at what a paranoid "knows everything" system would be like, the best I've read is Sam Hall by Poul Anderson. Hard to find short story, but well worth the search!
Luckly I paid cash at BestCopy so they'll never know
Re:ipod (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't felt this way before, but this is the first article I have really wanted to see withdrawn from slashdot. It scares me that a news orginization with the readership of its magnitude could post this crap.
-Sean
Re:ipod (Score:2)
Re:ipod (Score:2)
Please read the title underneath the Slashdot logo.News for Nerds. Puh. Yeah, I definitely think the root post here needs some more attention. I agree. Jon Katz's posts have been specious before, but this is just utter bullshit. I call for a retraction and censure.
Simple request (Score:3)