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Technology

Danger's Mobile Device - The HipTop 158

Posted by CmdrTaco from the incredible-converging-technology dept.
A random reader writes "All the "convergence" devices I've seen so far are great, but they all miss a feature or two. Cellphones with PDAs but no keyboard, PDAs with keyboards but no phone, etc. Has anyone ever heard of the HipTop? This little baby has a screen the size of a gameboy advance, runs Java, has a cellphone, keyboard, PDA functions, a camera and even an 8-voice MIDI synth... " Excluding a color screen, what more could one want in a toy?
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Danger's Mobile Device - The HipTop More

Danger's Mobile Device - The HipTop

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  • Speaking of sliding mechanisms [slashdot.org]; Is it just me, or does that thing look extremely flimsy?

  • this is a conceptual device only (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    the pics are mock-ups.
    without reading the site much, they're trying
    to attract funding or licence the concept.
    • $36,000,000.00???????

      For a friggin **CONCEPT**?

    • Re:this is a conceptual device only (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, it's not. I am acquainted with a guy who helped
      design the things and he has at least a prototype
      to play with. Said prototype, iirc, is rather close
      to the final product.

    • Re:this is a conceptual device only (Score:4, Informative)

      by bluescreen ( 90218 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @08:53AM (#2635940)
      In addition to being uninformed, you also didn't bother to read.


      They are funded pretty well, and I can tell you
      that I've personally seen real and working danger devices. I beleive they also did a working demo at comdex.


      I know this may seem like flaimbait, but I cant stand it when people post armchair assertions as fact from a quick skim of a site..

      • I know this may seem like flaimbait, but I cant stand it when people post armchair assertions as fact from a quick skim of a site.

        It's an all too common phenomenon - a flashy web page with zero technical details, hyping a product that will never see the light of day.

        If you say they've made a prototype, I beleive you, but don't blame me for my "armchair assertion". Blame Danger's marketing dept. And the pic most certainly *is* fake/altered, even if the product is real. No way that image on the LCD was photographed.

        Anyway, more power to these guys if the product is for real. It sounds like a great gadget, but I can't get excited over a flash animation!
        • Yeah, the LCD is definitely not real, but how many pictures of real, working products (such as Palm Pilots, televisions, monitors) have you seen with real pictures on them?

          Just because what's shown on the screen in a picture isn't real, it doesn't mean the product is a complete mock-up
    • Wrong-o! I held a working prototype in my own hands months ago. At that time the plastics weren't final, but the device definitely worked.

      They've been working on this thing for quite a while. If you'd actually bothered to read before posting, you'd have seen that they already have received round B funding.

      I had so much fun with the prototype that I've been eagerly awaiting the product/service launch so I can buy one.

      (And in case anyone is wondering, no, I don't work for Danger.)

  • What more could people want in a toy? (Score:3, Funny)

    by yatest5 ( 455123 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @07:24AM (#2635704) Homepage
    Ummm, variable speeds?
  • I would have liked some more technical details on their product pages, but all in all it looks like a pretty cool device. I would really love to see a color unit.

    They should add a more interactive demo, so that people can get some more of the feel of using it's interface. I love the fact that it uses Java. Theoretically, it should be pretty easy to extend, software wise.

    Devices like this are going to be coming out of the wooodwork soon enough. I for one can't wait, I'm tired of carrying a multiple devices around.
    • Devices like this are going to be coming out of the wooodwork soon enough. I for one can't wait, I'm tired of carrying a multiple devices around.

      I hear ya! Having to juggle a cell phone, 2-way pager, iPAQ, Palm VII, and a laptop every day isn't my idea of fun - but it's my day.

  • Since you asked... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Talisman ( 39902 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @07:24AM (#2635706) Homepage
    "Excluding a color screen, what more could one want in a toy?"

    - GPS
    - Hologram projection device
    - Grappling hook
    - Uranium energy cells (no need for batteries. ever.)
    - Death ray (add pistol to list of things i can stop carrying around)
    - Interfaces to every type of gaming console in existence
    - Quake 3

    Santa's gonna get a shakedown unless he produces the goods.

    Talisman
  • http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/wireless/2001-0 9-06-update.htm

    http://quicken.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-7070200. ht ml

    • Re:Better links (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Sorry, that sucked. Try this:

      USAtoday [usatoday.com]


      CNET [cnet.com]

      --MB

  • Neat (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @07:32AM (#2635716)
    Neat but in all honesty I'm waiting for the Microsoft efforts.

    Yes, I know that will rile up the majority of /. readers but I'm a PHB who relies almost extensivily on Microsoft products (Outlook, Powerpoint, Excel, Word and Powerpoint).

    I was full synchronisation between my PDA and Outlook. I currently have a Palm Pilot but as nice and small as it is, it's not quite what I want (what do I want? Portable Outlook without the email).

    Phone and PDA convergence is very nice and well but if you're not careful you'll end up with a mediocre PDA and a mediocre phone. Granted, its going to take them a while to get this sorted but something like an iPAQ with a bluetooth and GPRS enabled 8210 would suit me (and a lot of other PHB's) down to the ground for the time being.

    So yes, I'm sorry but I'll be waiting to see what Microsofts efforts are like. Yes, they're a monopolistic company with dodgy business practises but I need something that helps me work and, as much as I hate to say it, they could be the only ones that help me do that ...

    • I think you are right about one thing,To achieve the perfect device, if at all possible, will have to come from a company that has enough finaces to develop something that most people would like. I don't believe that it will be at all possible to have something that everyone would be happy with. As for how timely Microsoft may be with developing something that may do this, we may have to wait and see how popular the X-Box is to see if they get more brave about joing other markets and the other ones that they have joined may need to rise in market share. In order for something to really take off, it must be understood by the common person. Microsoft does take steps toward so I think they will be the ones that will pull this off.

  • Someone tell me again... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ChristianBaekkelund ( 99069 ) <draco@[ ].edu ['mit' in gap]> on Friday November 30, 2001 @07:39AM (#2635724) Homepage
    Someone tell me again, why are we trying to achieve "convergence"?...

    I mean, really, what's wrong with specialized devices that are really good at what they do, instead of trying to throw it all into one device which is not as good as the specialized devices at any given task, but just amalgamates them?

    For example, I personally have so far steered clear of those printer/fax/copier/scanner all in one jobs, because I just have a sneaking suspicion that if I bought one, I'd regret it...Can't quite put my finger on why, though.

    With regards to cellphones/pagers/PDAs, etc., I am actually far more in favor of "convergence", but this seems to almost have gone too far?...

    Or am I just paranoid?...heh
    • As someone who once had the misfortune of using Microsoft Works, I agree with you 100%.
    • Well, convergence means different things in different contexts. I don't really want a fax/scanner/copier/printer, because I have room to have a seperate machine for each.

      However, being a guy and therefore not carrying a purse, I don't have enough pocket space for a cellphone, PDA, GPS device, etc, etc, etc. In the portable market, convergence makes sense.
    • Imho what one would want is rather a stable general purpouse device with easy plug-in capability; not unlike the general purpouse pcs that sit on your desk or in your lap.

      The problem with many "converged" devices is that they come in a brittle, non-upgradable form. For stability, simplicity is required - combinatorics sort of dictates that at a very fudamental level. But you would certainly not want to carry a whole army of little devices, each with its own battery, display, network-if, speaker etc. etc.
    • So - you want to carry around the following gadets (all having a single feature):
      Cellphone.
      Phonebook (cellphone can't have that - that'd be convergence).
      GPS-device.
      MP3-player.
      CD-player.
      WMA-player.
      OGG-player.
      DVD-player.
      PDA-like device, that can only be used for text-documents.
      Etc, etc, etc.

      Of course, you can easily upgrade your devices whenever needed, but really - just how annoying would it be to carry around all that stuff?

      I'd prefer a single device, that could easily be upgraded via software; some stuff, like e.g. the GPS would have to be hardwired in the system, but various codecs and programs should be easy to install.

    • For example, I personally have so far steered clear of those printer/fax/copier/scanner all in one jobs, because I just have a sneaking suspicion that if I bought one, I'd regret it...Can't quite put my finger on why, though.

      I'll tell you why - because if your scanner breaks, you're also without your copier. If your printer breaks, you're also without your fax. If you run out of ink for your printer, you also can't print faxes or copies, and so on.

      I find the idea of saving space attractive, but don't like the idea of a single, simple hardware failure disabling several devices. My rule in the past few years has been to buy the highest-quality item with the longest warranty and best reviews that I can possibly afford. The all-in-one printer/fax/copier/scanner job sounds more like four cheap and probably unreliable devices all at once.

    • This is very simple. Pocket space. I know my pants can only hold so much. I want to be as connected as the next guy but I also don't want to walk around with 30 lbs. of electronics on me, all doing a piece of the puzzle. They make holsters for people who like independant devices. I personally like to spend more time putting on my clothes than all of the gadgets. Already I feel like I'm suiting up for battle in the morning. We have Pagers, Cell phones, PDA's, MP3 players (with headphones), wallets, keys, watches, etc. It's almost like we're becoming borg-like. What this very cool little convergence devices tries to do is combine the vast majority of the devices into one nice small package. Personally, having never seen one of these in person, I'm already sold. If it lives up to half of what it specs, then it's by far one of the best devices on the market. I've been dying for something like this for some time now. And you can plug a camera into it at well...too cool. Does anyone know where I can get one? Also, what type of cell phone service does it get? CDMA, TDMA, GSM, etc.? How about battery life? What is the speed you can connect at? You know, the basic questions...

      Just my 2 cents...
      Joe.

      • Re:Someone tell me again... (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Heh... speaking of suiting up for battle... After Sept. 11th, all employees had to go through metal detectors whenever they entered the buildings (fed. gov.). Every morning, I'd run my bag and coat through the X-ray machine, and run through the following ritual:

        remove pen from pocket

        remove keys

        remove change

        remove watch

        remove pillbox

        remove notepad (wirebound... sets it off every time)

        remove sunglasses

        remove leatherman-like Gerber multi-tool (and scaring the guards just about every day in the process)

        remove mini pocketknife (can't put it in the bag, 'cause when they see it in the x-ray, they can't tell how small it is and get all freaked out)

        remove ID badge (metal clip)

        remove photon light (on little retractable clippy thing)

        remove MD player/rec, and remove the remote and headphones which are routed halfway around my body to be comfortable and out-of-the-way

        remove cellphone and belt-clip

        remove headset for cellphone
        Then, I walk through, and maybe about a quarter of the time, my belt buckle would set it off anyway. Then another 5 minutes to put it all back on. Sure would be nice to have a MD-player-recorder(or MP3, if I can ever get 128MB flash cards for $5 each)/Nextel-compatible phone with headset/PDA on which I can quickly and effectively take notes. The metal-detector tribulations really make suiting up with your gadets a prime PITA.

        Why do I bother, you might ask? Well, I do tech support. I need the pen and notepad to keep track of tickets. I need the cellphone to keep in touch with co-workers. I need the music and sunglasses to get me through my commute. Keys, change, watch, pillbox, and ID badge should be self-explanatory. Gerber, 'cause the screwdrivers on a Victorinox are next to useless when working on computers. Kershaw Chive pocketknife, 'cause whipping out the blade on the Gerber is comparitively a huge pain and this little puppy is much smaller and quicker into action than a Victorinox. Photon, so I can see what I'm doing while crawling around under desks and finding light switches in LAN closets. Furthermore, you get bombarded as soon as you walk into the office around here -- you'd best walk in prepared, if you want to stay sane! That means you don't have 10 minutes to get in, turn the PC on, unload, gear up, and get some coffee before the work starts. I sure could use some of that tasty convergence!

      • I know my pants can only hold so much

        TELL me about it.

        ~jeff
    • If you've ever watched a Master Craftsman (Norm Abram springs to mind) do his stuff you'll notice the strong preference for lots of specialized tools, some of which might appear to be identical to the untrained eye.
      I saw one of the New Yankee Workshop series where he uses no less than 5 drivers with slightly different bits to accomplish a task. With proper bits, I could have accomplished the same thing with just one driver, but changing bits between steps would have added an hour to the project.
      This is also why many power users prefer the UNIX-style "large collection of simple tools" (sed, awk, grep, etc) over single do-it-all applications like MSWord (or even Perl) which add unnecessary weight and complexity.

      Then again, the "397 Tools In One" Fix-O-Matic (TM) seems to always sell well with the consumer types who are more interested in feeling productive than in being productive.

      I guess we know which type you are.
      • Then again, the "397 Tools In One" Fix-O-Matic (TM) seems to always sell well with the consumer types who are more interested in feeling productive than in being productive.

        I guess we know which type you are.
        Why don't you ask Norm Abrams to carry his workshop around a city all day? I bet you he'd cut down a bit on the number of specialized tools, and replace 'em with some damned-fine mutli-purpose items.

        Can you afford 5 different drills to work those 5 different bits? Is the ~$400 worth saving that hour of work? I don't have room to place a table saw, let alone a planer and a jointer, so I get by with a circular saw and a hand-planer when its woodworking time. I carry a Leatherman around because I can't realistically carry a big pair of pliers, a can opener, bottle opener, 4 different screwdrivers, a utility knife, and scissors around the various buildings I support. There's no question that I'd rather use real tools, but as the gun guys say, "When you need a gun, a .22 in your pocket is better than the .44 you left in the safe at home."

        Then again, ragging on people for thinking differently seems very popular with those who are more interested in looking intelligent than being intelligent.

        I guess we know which type you are.

        By the same token, ragging on people for ragging on other people is always popular with those more interested in looking superior than being superior, so I guess we know which type I am.
      • do his stuff you'll notice the strong preference for lots of specialized tools, some of which might appear to be identical to the untrained eye.

        You do realize that the reason he has all those tools, and uses/talks about them so much, is because the tool-manf. is the #1 show sponsor.

        No one in his right mind would equip a tool-shop ala NormAbrahm, Norm - as good as a carpenter as he may/may not be - is a shill. The show puts $250,000 worth of tools in his shed and tries to convince handy-types that they need *anther* bit of equipment for their next project... its just not true.

        i know this is OT, but I really dislike when people get snookered into missing the obvious self-interest of some corporate whore. In these days of "economic might is right" and "profit at any/all costs", it pays to be a little more aware of the motivations of others, question the seemingly innocuousness of a situation and be leery of the source of all information - it could be tainted to meet someone's selfish commercial motivations.... ala norm abrahm and his 1231^2 tools.

        As for the idea of convergence vs. single function tools: I look at it like this, I could have an array of single-function devices to replace my x86 PeeCee, I dont because they all share common needs. My word processor, spreedsheet and midi app all require a interface: Monitor/Keyboard. My games, music and video all require a common audio system: my $20 snd pci card. Do I have a OGG player, Arcade Machine, TypeWriter/Word Processor, SpreedSheetProcessor, Calculator etc? no...

        Really, what convergence does is reduce the cost of the individual functions. It allows my mp3 player to share an interface with my PIM on my pda, reducing the overall cost of each device - its about "value". Abstract the PIM, mp3 and email as 'functions' and look at your PDA again - you find that they are 99% the same device (if required to be single pcs of hardware) why would I want to do that?

        Multi-function/General-function is the way to go. I want a miniature PC... like the Sharp LinuxPDA... give that wireless phone/data ability and its the "perfect" device... I the new 'digital devices' boiled down into the pocket version of my PeeCee... capable, expandable, powerfull and dynamic.

      • The key difference is that he has a big-ass workshop, and I like to keep tools in my pants. (huh huh. Tool. Pants. huh huh)

        My Leatherman Wave is arguably not as good as a dedicated pair of pliers and a mess of screwdrivers, but in 99.44% of the cases when I'm away from my toolbox, it's Good Enough. As a matter of fact, the only serious drawback is that I don't have a screwdriver AND a pair of pliers simultaneously. But, the fact that I can have it on my person at all times (except when I'm flying on a plane, dammit) makes up for its (modest) functionality limitations.

        Portability is the killer application for these electronic devices, and for me it's paramount. The Handspring Treo looks to be the killer device...just wish I could afford one. : )
    • I totally agree. I don't want to carry that kind of device all the time. Ideal situation for me would be separate phone and PDA. You can use the phone and PDA to read your email, maybe check your calendar etc. Outside business hours you only have to carry the phone, which these days can be so small that it's almost invisible in your pocket.

      What's that thing in your pocket. It's my PDA. Yeah, for sure...
    • I bet you don't mind convergence on your desktop.

      Think about all the things your computer does: word processor, game player, email client, web browser, and all the rest. How would you like to have a different device for each of these tasks?

      Of course, the computer's complex enough that each of these *feels* different, because they're abstracted from the hardware, and you can upgrade your apps to new versions, or from vendors you appreciate.

      Right now PDAs aren't like that. the Linux PDAs are an important step because the hardware isn't strongly tied to the software. Palm is also moving along this direction, albeit slowly.

      When the hardware is sophisticated enough that buying a particular device doesn't mean buying into a single software model, then I bet you'll be a lot happier.
  • Java is a feature?

    feh!

    Flamebait.

  • VaporWare??? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by CProgrammer98 ( 240351 )

    The page is badly /.ed but when you get there, all you see are two paragraphs of text with no detailed tech specs and 6 pictures.

    MAN that keyboard looks TINY. You need real slender fingers to work it!

    Anyone know if this is for real????


    • "You need real slender fingers to work it!"

      How about using some kind of pencil? I often use that for my touch-tone phone - not because I have fat fingers, but because it's often covered in icky stuff ... some people don't wash their fingers after greasy fast food.
      • I dare not as what the sticky substance is that might be covering your fingers!

        Seriously though, if you need to use a stylus to operate the keyboard, why not just have a virtual keyboard on screen. OK, you lose some screen space whilst you have the keyboard popped up but your keys won't get sticky substances on them... but then again, the screen's a bit small for displaying images of nekked folks...
        • LOL!

          I first thought it might have been a slip on my part, but actually "it" refers to the last noun ,"phone", and not "my fingers", as "fingers" are flural, and would have to be refered to as "they".

          Other than that, I don't really see a problem with your idea, as it would increase the size of the screen (you don't have to have room for buttons). I do see a problem with letting someone else use it - most people I know don't mind squashing their fat greasy fingers against their flat-screen monitors.
    • It looks very like a demo model to me. Not to say that it can't be done, but you'll end up with something like the Motorola V.Box [motorola.co.uk].
    • The keyboard on the RIM/Blackberry mobile devices looks just as small and most people manage a reasonable typing speed with just a little bit of practice. I just worry that I'm developing the 21st century version of "Nintendo thumbs" from typing on the thing (grin).

      Hmmmm, they also seem to be using the same thumbwheel device as the RIMs do. Maybe Research in Motion will buy them out and start making these things... stick a corded or Bluetooth headset/mic combination on it for cell-phone functionality and finally I'll only have ONE device to carry around.
      • One of he disadvantages of having a single "mega-device" is that you pretty much have to be wearing the headset all the time if you want make/take calls and also use the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink-in-my-hand device to also retrieve information or make notes. This is ok if you're already wearing the headset say on a train or out walking, and listening to MP3s (assuming the device is intellegent enough to cut in and pause the music when you receive a call) but what if you're in a business meeting or slaving over a hot keyboard at work where headset-wearing is not allowed. You're a bit scuppered then! I guess in that situation, you have to rely on the original killer app (pencil & paper) to make notes and then transfer into your device at the end of the call, which kinda makes it all pointless!

        • One of he disadvantages of having a single "mega-device" is that you pretty much have to be wearing the headset all the time if you want make/take calls and also use the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink-in-my-hand device to also retrieve information or make notes.
          Err... I think you're mistaken. Why on earth would I have to have the headset on to write notes? Even if for some strange reason the device required a headset be connected when NOT on a call, how would it know if the headset wasn't actually on my ear? I can't imagine audio output or voice input would be necessary to operate the notes/organization functions of a PDA. It might be nice (clicky noises when you select something on screen -- wait, that's not nice, it's annoying), but hardly vital to the operation of the unit.
          what if you're in a business meeting or slaving over a hot keyboard at work where headset-wearing is not allowed.[snip]in that situation, you have to rely on the original killer app (pencil & paper) to make notes and then transfer into your device at the end of the call, which kinda makes it all pointless!
          Err.. who the h3ll isn't allowed to wear a headset at work? I'd never get anything done if I couldn't talk on the cell phone hands-free. If you're in a business meeting or some other situation where you really shouldn't be taking calls, then why would you be on a call while trying to take notes? The only problem I can see is that if you're in a call and trying to write something down (such as directions the person on the phone is giving you), it might be tricky to take notes on the same device, but I'm assuming the developers have worked around that problem and made it simple to use the PDA and phone functions simultaneously.
  • pretty neat but i still say an i[aq or a jouda with bit color and the cell phone card trumps it for overall useability/timewasting factor

    by the way, i prefer the "taco is christmas shopping again" stories to the half assed "scientists discover strange gas in uranus - discuss" or the "i have a really specific and vertical question about a really arcane protocol, sugestions?" topics that usually come up this early in the mornin'
  • Uhm ... is this site xxx-rated? Otherwise I'd better not say.

  • Nokia Phones (Score:5, Informative)

    by jeriqo ( 530691 ) <jeriqoNO@SPAMunisson.org> on Friday November 30, 2001 @07:49AM (#2635742)
    Both Nokia 9110 and 9210 have a keyboard, a few PDA features, and of course, cellphones.

    They're pretty expensive, and probably not as powerful as regular PDAs, but they may fit your needs.

    For more info, check the nokia website:
    9910 [nokia.com]
    9210 [nokia.com]

    The 7650 [nokia.com] is pretty interresting too, but has no keyboard.

    -J
    • If you live in the USA, these won't work, but the US version of the 9210 is the Nokia 9290 [nokia.com].

      They're pretty cool devices, they run the Symbian [symbian.com] OS (Think Psion), have really decent organiser functions, a web browser, a mail client, a WAP browser, and even a Java virtual machine!

      You can even download a telnet application for it. IRC on the train? Sweet.

    • Nope, looks like a keyboard to me.
    • i want a phone a pda but i have no desire for a keyboard.. i want my pda to recognize my speech, and failing that, my writing..

      --

    • They run the same OS as my PDA, a Diamond Mako / Psion Revo, I have a friend who got a Palm for his birthday last year(not the cheapest one, but not the most expensive one) and the Mako beats it hands down in everything but the # of progams you can find for it.

      Jaysyn
  • Dosen't the Handspring Treo 180 have a keyboard, phone, and pda. I beleive so and it is much more attractive then that moded pager.

  • another tricorder wannabe (Score:5, Funny)

    by kaoshin ( 110328 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @08:09AM (#2635775)
    It doesn't look like it has enough lights. How are you supposed to analyze the atmosphere on an alien homeworld without rows of blinkin LED's?
  • From what I read on alot of tech sites, there are several devices on the way which will have the keyboard/PDA/Cellphone thing. I can't resist to tell you that I am working on such a device at Motorola. You probably haven't heard about it yet but it's called the Accompli 009 and has been in a few press releases. Accompli 009 [motorola.com]. Google also has a good image archive of it here [google.com]. But anyway there are more devices on the way from Samsung, Nokia, Sharp, ... pratically anyone who makes gagdets. Lots of them run Linux too, like the Sharp SD500L.
    • There has been info going around about the a009 and the various PDA and gadget sites for quite a few months. I was actually under the impression that it was already available. Looks like a decent device, but I'm not so sure about only have an earphone option to use it as a phone.
      • there is also a speakerphone module that plugs into the side. It would be more convenient if it were built in, but the quality is amazing. The A009 also has both J2ME support and supports FlexScript applications written with Motorola's free IDE and dev tools.

        We've had demo units for quite a while now. From my understanding, Motorola is just waiting on the carriers to approve the device. This device allows use of GPRS for things beyond WAP, so the carriers are a bit afraid of what it will do to their new data networks once it's released...

        Of course at $5/meg, you'd think the carriers would want us to use as much bandwidth as possible... (and that much cheaper than most of the rates in Europe!)

  • What is it about color displays that makes them a "must have"? I've got a Psion Revo [psion.com] which doesn't suffer from lack of color, and has a longer battery life for it.
    • What is it about color displays that makes them a "must have"? I've got a Psion Revo [psion.com] which doesn't suffer from lack of color, and has a longer battery life for it.

      I was of the same opinion, until I sold my Revo and bought a Jornada 565. The Revo didn't even have a backlight and was practically useless in dim lighting. None of those problems with color. I do miss the keyboard though, my terrible handwriting will probably never work well with the various pen input methods.

  • Man... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @08:23AM (#2635815)
    What I REALLY want in a handheld device is something akin to the PADDs in ST. Ever since I first saw a Newton Messagepad I've been waiting for something that would really fit that sort of roll. Palm based devices are too fucking small for my hands and I can't exactly read the text at a glance. A handheld ought to be something you can store a bunch of notes on, control presentations from, and interface with other systems by. Here's what I would spend some dough on:
    • The size of a good notepad, 6"x9" with screen real estate being most of that area.
    • A screen with good contrast but not necessarily colour, preferably reflective with a switchable backlight.
    • An internal antenna set, a set of them maybe three in the housing each tuned for a different band
    • Multiple expension modules, specifically so I could have a AirPort/PCS/GSM/ect modules hooked to the antenna set (hence multiple band antennas) and I could also have other expansion modules in.
    • Serial port and bus connectors somewhere so I can plug it into just about anything and use it as a terminal or storage device or use something else as a storage device.
    • Really thin with a long battery life.


    • I also want to be able to remotely control the Enterprise with it too. Or at least play Nettrek on it.
    • Yeah.. I'd surf the web using the touch-screen, then when I'm done I'd use it as a beer coaster. Ohhh baby. Dunno if anyone else has tried using an iPaq as a coaster, but it's not really up to scratch.

    • Re:Man... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Mwongozi ( 176765 )
      It sounds like you want a tablet PC [microsoft.com], although this being SlashDot I'm sure a lot of people will hate the fact that it's Microsoft.
      • I've seen the TabletPC before and it is pretty interesting and comes close to my criteria. It is essencially a notebook PC with no default attached keyboard and most designs will probably lack a hard drive. They even claim it is the evolution of the laptop. However I the particular design of it makes it a little less than what I'd really like. The TabletPC spec aims to run WinXP software with no modification, I could jam Photoshop onto one and edit away. This means an x86 compatible processor (wow maybe someplace the Crusoe MIGHT actually work) and plenty of drive space. Flash memory is quickly becoming very cheap and could be speedier if it were embedded onto a main board rather than as an expansion module. Even so I don't want to have to pay for 512 megs of FlashROM in a TabPC. Also with WinXP TabPC edition, Microsoft hasn't yet learned that their GUI just doesn't fit in some screens. WinXP's Luna interface theme looks like shit on a 800x600 screen because everything is so crowded together. Likewise apps with lots of MDI spawns look like shit when you don't have alot of screen real estate. For my TabPC-ish Tab I'd like a more customized toolkit(s) optimized for the small screen. As well as the option of a less juice consuming processor, something like a PPC 750cx which gets fine performance with little power consumption. Shit a StrongARM or old MIPS core would work fine with a clock somewhere between 200 and 300MHz. That's just me being a bit picky though, the TabPC is really cool and that was a good suggestion.

  • People who fly.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StevenHallman76 ( 455545 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @08:46AM (#2635913)
    Why would you want a cellphone/pda combo? or a cellphone/mp3 player combo? The first thing they tell you when you get on a plane is TURN OFF YOUR CELLPHONE. As soon as your devices are combined you lose them all whenever you fly..

    don't combine my cellphone with anything!
    • All the Motorola combo devices have radio off modes specifically for planes and hospitals. i.e. TP935 pagers and the new Accompli 009 phone.
    • My Kyocera 6035 "smartphone" Palm functionality works just fine with the phone turned off. For palm users, this is a very nice compromise convergence device. I replaces, in my pocket, a cell phone and a PalmV with something smaller than the combined weight/form factor of those two.
    • Feh.

      I have a Visor Deluxe with a VisorPhone. The Visorphone has it's own power & powerswitch. And it's removeable.
      Granted, it's a bit bulkier than a standard phone or Visor, it's way more convenient to carry than to carry two devices.

  • Err... it already exists in Japan!! (Score:4, Informative)

    by nikko ( 158280 ) on Friday November 30, 2001 @08:48AM (#2635921)
    Dude, check out the latest DoCoMo phones. THey do it all. They have built in keyboard, built-in PDA, run Java, built-in tiny digital camera. They send email, they browse the web (well at least i-mode sites), they can attach pictures to your email.

    Oh yeah, as an added bonus the mobile phone service actually works!! (unlike in the U.S.).

    Unfortunately they're only available in Tokyo (looks like a decent place to live). I don't think people in the U.S. realize just how far behind our mobile communications infrastructure has fallen.
    • from NTT DoCoMO's site

      http://investor.nttdocomo.com/news/20011120-6516 4. cfm?CompanyID=IPO&PIN=169481500&ReleaseID=65164&pa ge=article&type=Press&Format=HTML&date=2001%2D11%2 D20%2000%3A00%3A00

      "NTT DoCoMo to Launch Location Information Service Based on Own PlatformTOKYO, JAPAN, November 20, 2001---NTT DoCoMo, Inc. announced today that it will launch a nationwide position-information service based on the DoCoMo Location Platform, dubbed the "DLP service," on November 27, 2001.
      The service uses information from global positioning satellites (GPS) to identify, register and communicate geographic position. Through Application service providers (ASPs) and other companies, users can access related services, such as:

      confirming one's current location to, for example, obtain information about the area

      informing others of one's position

      registering positions on a server database

      confirming the location of a third party, such as teachers checking the whereabouts of students on a school outing......"
    • "Unfortunately they're only available in Tokyo (looks like a decent place to live). I don't think people in the U.S. realize just how far behind our mobile communications infrastructure has fallen."

      Thanks to the FCC and the big guys' stranglehold on the airwaves.

      F^&@#ng sigh.

      paulb
  • When it is made smaller and voice enabled, and can handle being submerged and knocked around(milspec) then I will get excited.

    Can I wear it on my wrist? Can it give me altitude? Temperature? Magnetic North? GPS?
    Can it tell me my heartrate? Can I tell it to take a message, and have it converted into text? Can it seamlessly connect to another computer and synchronise all the info? Will it be a take anywhere computer that allows me to analyse data or even act as a log wherever I go?

    A mix between the SUUNTO wristtop computers, and the onhandpc(www.onhandpc.com)would be nice.

    OK my rant is over for now.
  • "All the 'convergenc' devices I've seen so far are great, but they all miss a feature or two. Cellphones with PDAs but no keyboard"

    Did anybody else miss the discussion group 2-3 articles below that reviews the Handspring Treo -Cellphone, PDA, keyboard...?

  • Excluding a color screen, what more could one want in a toy

    3G or at very least, GPRS. That's what I would want.

    At least the Handsping Treo will be upgradable to limited GPRS.

  • Blatant Karma Whoring (Score:2, Informative)

    by StikyPad ( 445176 )
    The site seems to be slashdotted, but I found a few [usatoday.com] other [allnetdevices.com] stories [techtv.com] on it, and this one [pdawear.com] has a small picture of the device in question.

    Enjoy

    --
  • Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!

  • Damn, when I first saw the message I thought it was about a new PDA for Danger Mouse. Penfold will be sad about that. "But Chief, you promised!"

    -J
  • you hit 25 and your eyesight starts its inevitable and irreversible decline. Then those 2" (5 cm) screens don't seem so wonderful anymore...

    sPh
  • what i want to see on these PDA's is a good one hand easy to ues keyboard. I mean.. one that is not a QWERTY... ok Yeah you'd nead to relearn it but its not that hard to relearn something like that anyway.. Also it would be a hell of a lot easier and quicker to do stuff.. I mean QWERTY was an invention to make sure typewriter hammers wouldn't jam together.. Thus it made you type slower and all the commmon keys are far apart for less probable jamming. Now we have computers we shouldn't need to use that anymore. I mean hell I would love to be able to type with one hand quick and easily.. and I know that a keyboard could be made for this.. and it would be easy to use. (i have seen the half keyboard that was made but... thats still QWERTY and its still harder than it needs to be)

    • Try the Half Keyboard (Score:2, Interesting)

      by yerricde ( 125198 )

      I mean QWERTY was an invention to make sure typewriter hammers wouldn't jam together.. Thus it made you type slower

      Do you know the URL of a study that shows that QWERTY is significantly slower on average than Dvorak?

      and all the commmon keys are far apart for less probable jamming.

      Sholes placed the keys far apart so that the keys would have a better chance of alternating between hands (yes, I know, some words such as 'monopoly' fail, but unless you're transcribing a finding of fact in the sequel to the Microsoft case, it shouldn't matter).

      Here's a one-handed keyboard [halfkeyboard.com] that uses the QWERTY or Dvorak muscle memory you already have.

  • I thought you were cool!

    Who the hell wants a black and white toy.

    A backlit color Etch-a-Sketch is a better toy than this thing.

    -J

  • I need my dream device to run palm OS because I sync with meeting maker (a calendar/scheduler tool) at work.

    Whenever I see something running a new OS I know it won't have the third party support that I need. On a side note, I bet WinCE supports whatever calendar tools I'll need too.

  • /.ed (Score:1)

    by juha0 ( 148119 )
    Is everyone downloading the 1MB flash demo, or why can't I get to the site..?

  • Yes, it is for real (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is all information I picked up when visiting Danger a number of months ago; since they've released the product, I assume my NDA is no longer applicable. Keep in mind, this could all be wrong.

    I had the good fortune of using a prototype in early spring of 2001. The devices worked then, and I don't doubt that they work now. (You don't pick up second round funding from some of the biggest telcos running around without a product). They've seen limited release largely, I think, because of the poor GSM coverage in the US.

    They have a Java runtime, and play along with everything you'd expect them to: web, mail, IM, etc. I was amazed that I was sending mail, surfing the web, and doing all the things I'd do online with such a tiny device wirelessly and effortlessly. Like a cell, they're _always on_. This means that your IM pages come through and buzz you in realtime, etc.

    What also makes it a joy is the online service that you get with the device; your content isn't just stored on the device itself--it gets backed up to the service. Loose the device? The next one you pick up will restore itself from the service when you register yourself with it.

    The interface is slick and usable, the keyboard is not nearly as bad as you think, and it does an amazing job of bringing together everything you'd want from a PDA and phone into one very small package--moreso than my experience with cell/PDA combos that are readily available now.

    Danger Labs has some very sharp people there, and as far as I could tell were working hard to do things right. The HipTop is going to be a great little unit when they go mass market.
  • The Handspring Treo is both a phone and a PDA. You were looking for a unit with a keyboard? How's this one [handspring.com]?
  • While I can't speak for the product itself, I can tell you that I've known the CEO, Andrew Rubin, since I was 14. In fact, he ran one of the better BBSes I've been on, a huge multi-line BBS called "Spies in the Wire" that became "spies.com" and a mass of other things. I've kept in touch through the years (although he's harder to reach these past few, go figure), and Andy's always got his hand in something or somewhere cool. Beyond that, he's a great guy all around, who often gave great technology or computer resources away for free to people just to ensure that more folks could share in the fun (we're talking the 1980's, when it was a bit harder to get access to systems and resources beyond home use).

    He's put in his dues as far as working at companies and startups are concerned, and I've seen him "walk the walk" when it came to actually producing neat stuff.

    Good luck with the Danger, Andy!

    - Jason Scott
    TEXTFILES.COM
    BBS Documentary? [bbsdocumentary.com]
  • Walter Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal had a review of the Handspring Treo 180 yesterday. (Picture here). Here's how the article begins: [wsj.com]

    FOR THE PAST week, I have been carrying around a new hand-held, wireless device that is simultaneously the best personal digital assistant I have ever used and the most capable cellphone.

    It looks like a flip-phone and makes and receives calls with ease. It has a large screen, and can surf the Web and send and receive e-mail. It also has a full keyboard that makes composing e-mails or memos a breeze. It uses the Palm operating system and can synchronize dates and addresses with a PC.

    Yet, despite all that power, this device is shorter and narrower than a Compaq iPAQ Pocket PC, or even a Palm V. About the size of a wallet and under 6 ounces in weight, it feels great in the hand and fits easily in a pocket.

    This new product is the Treo 180 from Handspring. It costs $399 and will be available in early January. Designed by Jeff Hawkins, the man who invented the Palm Pilot and the Handspring Visor, the Treo is a true breakthrough. Unlike other combo devices, which were either phones with Palms jammed into them or Palms with phone features added, the Treo is a true hybrid. It was designed from the ground up to be a new kind of device, which the company calls a "communicator."
  • Check out the flash bit where it shows the bookmarks. Its got The Onion's website as one of em. I'm sold.
  • I wanna built-in barcode scanner with no wires to tangle. I don't care whether it's software for the camera, CCD or laser. Every damn thing I buy except fresh fruit has a barcode on it. My receipt now has a barcode on it. I want to be able to scan the things and automate my shopping list. Sad, eh?

    Vik :v)

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