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Turn Your PC Into A Tablet 116

Posted by Hemos from the purty-stuff-for-me-to-test? dept.
Odkin writes "Geekstreet.ca has a story on a new concept invented by Philips called Detachable Monitor. It's an LCD with a touch screen that connects to your PC via 802.11b. I found this article in German with some nice hi-res pictures and there's also a link at Philips' homepage. "
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Turn Your PC Into A Tablet More

Turn Your PC Into A Tablet

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  • Am I correct in thinking this would not be good for 3D graphics, since it probably gets its screen refreshes via the 802.11b interface. (Somewhat like a remote X session, which I know is not good for graphics intensive application unless you have great network bandwidth (>10 Mbps).)
    • Yes, the monitor communicates with the PC via IEEE 802.11b at 11 Mbits/s. This isn't really adequate for anything that refreshes the screen a lot, especially since I doubt the communications protocol between the monitor and the PC is as high-level as the communication between an X client and an X server.

      The philips page here [philips.com] gives more details. I don't know why the Slashdot article links to the Philips home page instead of the Philips page that discusses the monitor.
    • Actually 11mb is fine, that's plenty of bandwidth, but it's the latency that would be an issue.

  • Microsoft Mira (Score:5, Informative)

    by XRayX ( 325543 ) <{tobias.boeger} {at} {web.de}> on Sunday March 17, 2002 @10:49AM (#3176683) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft presents something similiar on the CeBit. It's called Mira and is a hybrid between a PDA, a Webpad and a PC.
    Read about it at CNet [com.com] and Microsoft PressPass [microsoft.com].
    • Run the original article link through Babelfish.

      The Phillips device is an implementation of Mira spec, not an "invention". There was a CNet article [com.com] a few days ago about Mira devices presented at CeBit this year.

    • Re:Microsoft Mira (Score:5, Informative)

      by cristofer8 ( 550610 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @12:16PM (#3176849) Homepage
      Microsoft announced MIRA awhile ago, and this seems to be exactly the same thing. As Mira is just the software behind it, I would not be surprised at all if the phillips screen actually runs on Mira. Just for more info, a Mira screen is running Windows CE.NET and connecting to a windows xp sp1 desktop through remote desktop. And no, it works terribly with video or 3d, since the CE screen can't render them well over an 11mb connection.
    • The detachable monitor isn't a standalone machine - it's the display of your existing desktop PC.

      When you buy a separate webpad to be able to read electronic text anywhere in the house you get a proprietary operating system and browser, no support for the latest web plugins and standards and not much choice in general.

      With a detachable screen you get to reuse your operating system, software, hard disk, CDROM, broadband connection, local files, bookmarks, etc. And, of course, you don't pay twice for the LCD screen itself which is the most expensive component.
    • Microsoft presents something similiar on the CeBit. It's called Mira and is a hybrid between a PDA, a Webpad and a PC.

      Yes, and to save folk reading the rest of the thread, most of the posts consist of 'Philips did't invent this, Microsoft had the idea first'. Then folk remember that its slashdot and Microsoft isn't meant to have any good ideas at all, not ever.

      I have been wanting one of the tablet PCs for a couple of years, ever since they were first shown. This particular device looks like it is low end, or rather low power consumption.

      I bought a Wacom graphics tablet last week to see how good the Office XP handwriting recognition is. It certainly appears to be better than it was a couple of years ago when I bought a crosspad. Although I did find the tablet somewhat disapointing, the driver didn't load on XP and there was no way to turn down the sensistivity of the tablet to something useful. What I really wanted was to be able to dedicate the tablet to handwritten input, what the driver insisted on doing was taking over the mouse functions.

      Now if someone would make a tablet PC that was waterproof I could use it in the hot tub.

  • Making a slimline monitor/input device is great, and the pictures look pretty, but why does it need to be wireless? (other than the geek factor..)

    Surely if you really wanted a portable monitor, you'd buy a laptop. Add wireless pcmcia card and run X or VNC over it.

    Anyone got a reasonable use for this?
    • you want it wireless so you don't have cords. To me, if this comes in at around a few hundred bucks (below 400), I'd maybe buy one instead of a laptop due to the fact that a laptop costs over $1000.
    • So you can kick back on your couch or in your lay-Z-boy or, even better, on the toilet and read slashdot. I'd love to have this thing, but I'm not about to shell out $400 for it.

      ~~Galen~~

  • That's not a new concept (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    First of all, people have been using devices like that for years. Any tablet PC or handheld with something like X11, RDP, or VNC will do.

    Also, Microsoft has been the driving force behind making this concept popular this year (Mira [news.com]).

    Let's just hope that the term "invent" won't translate into yet more bogus patents on old technology.
  • Of course, one of the greatest Windows CE Tablets is/was the Clio [pinaxgroup.com].
    • I've been waiting for a laptop version of that for years. I loved the Clio the moment I saw it, but would never buy a WinCE device. Since the key feature of the Clio is mechanical I figured that there would be a full fledged laptop version of it shortly. Who would have thought that years later there wouldn't be a single laptop that uses that pivot.
      • Linux does run on the Clio.

        http://www.linux-vr.org/

        We might be able to get it to run on this Phillips thing too sooner or later.

  • its like a Sony VAIO without the box. cool, me wants.

  • protocol & usefulness (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bromoseltzer ( 23292 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @10:59AM (#3176696) Homepage Journal
    The question is what is the link protocol and what's in the "remote display". They're not sending raw video (or X11) over WiFi, and the box has the ability to show jpegs locally. Hopefully it's not running Windows, but it might be -- using Windows Terminal Server or whatever that's called in the XP world. Surely that's what the MS Mira will do.

    The portable display (along with a portable keyboard/pointer) is the missing link in my home network. I carry around a laptop with WiFi sometimes, but this is overkill. I want the smarts in the "house server" and the remote terminal to be comfortable to carry, nice to look at, and not too expensive.

    So who's doing this in the OpenSource world?

    --Martin

  • DRM (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tjansen ( 2845 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @11:02AM (#3176700) Homepage
    Note that this kind of screen could be the first step to DRM mechanisms build into the output device: They could use it to send pictures or videos encrypted to the screen. Unless you know the key that's inside your screen there will be no chance to get the raw data. Much safer than a software solution. And at least a solution thats a little bit more OpenSource-friendly (you can safely give away the source of the OS without harming the DRM protection, because everything happens in the screen). Also note that the same thing is possible for audio with USB speakers.
  • The english link is rather thin on information - how is this device supposed to "connect" and "allow access" to my PC?

    For my computers, it wouldn't be a big deal to export DISPLAY=tablet:0, but for Windows users how would this work? VNC, perhaps?

    Or is this just using your PC as a gateway, and running it's own software.

    Any bets on how long until this is running Linux?
  • Panasonic had a wireless touchscreen tablet, the Cruise pad, we were experimenting with in Army motorpools in 1994.

  • But of course... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by selectspec ( 74651 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @11:05AM (#3176708)
    Ever since the first PC's, the technology in the box has been modularized and extracted from the box. Ironically, the PC was to break us free from the centralized mainframes.

    Networking has once again revitalized specialization, centralization and modularization of the components within the box. We no longer think of the printer being an accessory to the PC. Direct Attached, NAS, and SAN storage have moved disks out of the box. Applications which used to run on our PCs now live on the server.

    We now ask questions about our PCs. Why is there a hard disk in my workstation? Why is there a CPU capable of immense processing power in my workstation that will run idle for most of its life? Why is there anything in my PC other than the input and output devices that I require? Why can't everything else go in a specialized room somewhere, where it can be maintained, backed up and monitored more easily? Perhaps more controversially, why do I have to bother with that room at all and couldn't it be a service that I subsribe to?

    • I think the shift you're seeing now is due to the fact that we originally went away from mainframes because individuals wanted to be able to use computers. i.e. 1 person 1 computer. Now the paradigm has shifted slightly in the fact that many individuals are now owning multiple computers. We have five in my household, one in my office, one in my wifes bedroom, one hooked to the TV in the living room, one for the kitchen and my ce tablet I use for portability.

      I think you'll also see that the run away from client/server computing was based on the cost of owning/maintaining such a system. With todays servers costing little more than a midrange PC it's much more feasible for a home user to be able to purchase a server for use.

    • I laugh whenever I hear about decentralized computing, because it assumes the people running the decentrialized systems are competent and above board and would NEVER screw anyone over or scrimp here and there to save a few bucks. How did this get modded up so high? There will be a huge market in providing these services in a complimentary fashion, however.. but, since you asked:

      Why is there a hard disk in my workstation?

      Where, exactly, will you store all your pr0n? Are you going to accept huge latencies to move data around? Are you going to trust that the provider of space-of-the-week isn't going to get a court order from the RIAA/MPAA to get rid of your goodies, or serve you with a summons? How about playing your games? Are you going to trust whatever encryption they offer?

      Why is there a CPU capable of immense processing power in my workstation that will run idle for most of its life?

      Because it costs $100 bucks, and will be $50 bucks in a year? CPU power is cheap, and we're nowheres near what's required for the next generation of applications. Will you trust your provider of CPU cycles to always have what you want on demand, and never scrimp to save money? The real question here should be "why do I only have one CPU in my machine" or "why aren't rack mount home basement clusters more popular". My definition of "immense processing power" and yours are likely quite different. Call me when I can get real-time photorealistic 3D pr0n, then, maybe, we can talk about there being enough CPU power in my box.

      Why is there anything in my PC other than the input and output devices that I require?

      Ummmmmm.. that's what's in your PC now. There's no reason to control the data in a central spot, you're right. Anyone who assumes users will mindlessly buy into service models when stuff is cheap is fooling themselves. Does anyone remember Divx, and how hard that flopped? Think about it. That's why most of us have home servers.

      Why do I have to bother with that room at all and couldn't it be a service that I subsribe to?

      Anyone stupid enough to buy into this gets what they deserve.

      • Are you going to accept huge latencies to move data around?

        While I didn't and wont deny your points regarding data ownership and privacy, I'd be more cautious about your technology presumptions. Latencies around hard drives are huge, and they haven't changed much over the past 10 years. It certainly is not keeping pace with networking and transport speeds. Your 100Mbs NIC has roughly the same throughput of the latest and greatest IDE drives. GigE has about 6-8 times the throughput of a disk drive and 10GigE has 60-80 times the throughput. It's just a matter of time before drive latency is outpaced by networking latency.

        Network Latency is an issue, but on the LAN it is already noise compared to spindle speeds. It wont be long before the WAN is no different.

        While I'm personaly not going to put my storage in some SP, I will put in my closet.

      • How hard Divx flopped? What are you talking about?

        Perhaps you should put it in context. The Divx I'm thinking of is an mpeg-4 video codec that encodes at about 40% better than mpeg-2 a lot of the time. That codec is currently in widespread use on desktop machines everywhere. I don't see how this has any relavence to servers at all.
        • I think that the Divx that he was referring to was the failed DVD extension marketed by Circuit City. The system employed encoded DVDs that required phone line activation to allow you to view them. The basic idea was the capacity to purchase DVDs cheaply and then essentially view them on a rental basis. Needless to say the technology tanked badly, so badly that the Divx compression scheme not only took the name without resistance, but the original technology is nearly forgotten.
    • Once upon a time, only the mainframes had enough power to do anything useful. The terminals had a chip to display characters on a screen and send keystrokes back, and that was all.

      Then the PC came around, and everyone could have their own system. Ownership! They could keep their own private stuff private! But the cost was that they could only access their stuff at their own computer.

      Since then, times have changed. Computers have become hundreds of thousands of times more powerful, and much more capable. Since we can do so much more with them, a much greater portion of our lives is associated with them.

      So times have changed again -- not only do we need our OWN computers, but we need access to them all the time! And since not every computer is appropriate for every job, we have multiple computers. Every time we use a computer, we want to use its capabilities (location, portability, power), but we want access to all of the software and data we use at the other ones.

      Now all of our computers are potential mainframes. It isn't a problem that the CPU runs idle all the time (you can even run SETI or DNETC). You get your money's worth out of what you do use.

      So we aren't going back to "Mainframe Computer." And there isn't a "Personal Computer" either. It is simply "Computers." You can use any computer wherever you are to get your data, manipulate it (software), and store it back. You use the local resources (the computer at hand), and your personal resources (the computer at home), and some public resources (the servers online) and get your job done.

      It isn't that the pendulum has swung back to mainframe from PC. It is that we now have the power to keep the benefits of mainframe and the benefits of PC, and add some additional benefits.

      Of course, keeping it all simple is the hard part... But the Phillips tablet (Mira) seems to be a step in the right direction.
    • Why can't everything else go in a specialized room somewhere

      Because then you need extremely high bandwidth connections from that room to each workstation. If the processing that generates your video is done remotely, you need more than a 100MHz ethernet connection to get it to the screen without taking a highly noticeable performance hit as compared to a PC that calculates the picture internally. So out in the real world, where high bandwidth costs more than silicon, you need a powerful CPU and quite a lot of RAM in the workstation.

      The answer is less clear-cut with the hard drive. Diskless PC's, where the programs and data all must be downloaded through the network before the PC starts crunching on the numbers, clog the network and performs very poorly. If the software was rearranged so the program ran in the server room, and the PC simply expands the results into display screens, then you could get decent performance. But the way this would usually be implemented would be with one dual or quad CPU box serving dozens of people -- and the performance would bottleneck there. Put enough CPU's in the server room, and find software that works in this "thin-client" mode, and you've got a good system for medium and big business. It costs a little more because you've got (nearly) two CPU's and two sets of RAM per user, but it's quite possible to save more on maintenance than it costs in hardware, if you can find the software.

      However, you'll probably discover that most people need at least one program that wasn't written for thin clients, and will not perform adequately if either the disk access or the video goes over the network. So you wind up back to a full PC on every desktop, plus all those extra CPU's in the server room, and even more maintenance...
    • "Why is there a CPU capable of immense processing power in my workstation that will run idle for most of its life? "

      Ive never understood this question.. Looks to me like its a rare product that has its performance potential maxed out all the time. My cars engine runs low (or not at all) most of its life. My ceiling fan isnt on "high" 24/7. The house doors arent swinging back and forth non-stop. Why arent we complaining about that?
  • This could potentially be a good idea. I work in real estate Appraisal, and one of our industry's longstanding problems has been going from field notes to data entry. Newer solutions exist that run on Palm OS devices, but the fact of the matter is that the 2-4 page legal sized forms we have to fill out are represented terribly on the little screen. A laptop would be a great solution, but they're bulky. And being in a cold, northern climate doesn't lend itself to lugging around a lot of technology in the snow. With a device like this, I could leave the laptop itself in the warn confines of my car, and use the touch screen tablet to do my data entry. I guess this would only work if the display doesn't weigh very much though.

    I've also been looking into AquaPad's, but I don't think they have enough storage for the OS and all of our appraisal software (of course it's all Windows-based... And it probably always will be.. Hell, it took most companies 7 years just to make 32-bit versions of their software.). Toshiba also has a laptop coming out that's supposed to be >3 lbs. and has a rotatable (sp?) lcd. When the lcd is rotated around so that the laptop is closed but the screen is on the outside, it uses a stylus for data entry. If this thing is not too cumbersome this might also work.

    It's nice to see that there are people out there working on these things, and I imagine that in 5 years truly usable handheld tablet devices will be ready for the mainstream. Hey look at the bright side-- that's only 15 years after they were announced.
    • "...but the fact of the matter is that the 2-4 page legal sized forms we have to fill out are represented terribly on the little screen."

      You should not have to *display* your entire form for data entry. Your paper based from is made up of fields that are displayed in a fashion so they are easy to read on legal size paper.

      For data entry these fields need to be displayed for entry and viewing only. You would have plenty of room in a PDA enviornment because you are eliminating the whitespace and irrelevant data from paper based legal.

      According to this recent /. article [http://slashdot.org] the US Census is looking to move to PDA for mobile data entry and the *industry* states the technology is there. If a PDA can handle the above your application is entirely possible.
      • You are right in that the entire form does not need to be represented. However, many folks in this business are older and the PDA screens are just too small. The other problem is you still cannot do your sketching on the PDA. So, you still have to carry a regular pen and paper with you. Not a great solution either way you slice it. Now a 1.5 lb. tablet PC running the actual software (instead of a limited subset of it) would be a godsend.
  • Putting blocks together (any kid can do it):
    More than that in modularity concept [mindspring.com]
    Consistant Common Connection [mindspring.com]
    And the OS to handle the software side will be the Hurd.
  • those pictures are really his-res, 200kb, 800kb, 1100kb? this site's gonna be up for a while... someone should mirror it.

    it's nothing impressive to look at, btw.
  • I use a computer for MP3s, DVDs and poor-man's TIVO. I have it set up with a dual display with one of the displays piped to my TV and the other going to a large monitor. Right now I use a wireless keyboard and mouse to control the whole thing, but a detachable, flat-panel, touch-screen monitor would be even better. Basically it would act as nifty remote control for my little world of convergence. Right now I have to run the computer monitor at 640x480 'cause it's on the other side of the room. If I had the detachable flat panel I could run at a decent resolution without squinting. I _could_ just put the computer next to the couch and run a bunch of extension wires, but the flat-panel looks like a much more elegant solution.
    • It's a lengthly video, but Microsoft demonstrated this very use at CES. Video can be found at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ehome/news/news.a sp.

      What you're talking about is exactly what I've been looking for from a PC as well. Microsoft is bundling this "Mira" detachable screen and their new "Freestyle" interface to deliver exactly the home media center that you're describing.

      The first version has the following limitations:
      1. Only one user session can be active
      2. No video or high-end graphics

      There's another good overview of these technologies here: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/freestyle_mir a.asp
      • The first version has the following limitations:
        1. Only one user session can be active
        2. No video or high-end graphics

        Interestingly, the one user session limit is strictly a licensing restriction on XP. XP Professional is limited to a single remote user connection not because of technical limits, but because MS doesn't want people running terminal services without paying for a server OS. The RDP in XP is pretty much identical to the RDP that has existed in NT Terminal Server and Win2k server platforms for the past few years. That said, I don't see that limitation being a drawback to this particular product since it is more geared toward a single-user environment (where you can carry your desktop computing environment with you to the conference room or to the toilet) and not toward having a ton of roaming users off of this single box, although it would be nice to be able to run the type of home entertainment system from one box and have multiple clients scattered throughout the house.

        • That's my answer: VNC! I can set up my laptop to take control of the multimedia computer with VNC. It's already wireless too. If I wanted too I could even run the multimedia computer without a monitor and reclaim the extra space. That's what I hate about /. I see something very cool that I want to spend money on and you all take away my fun by showing me I can get the same thing for free. :( TW

  • Wacom's touch screen monitor/tablet (Score:3, Informative)

    by bckspc ( 172870 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @11:13AM (#3176729) Homepage
    From http://www.wacom.com/lcdtablets/index.cfm [wacom.com]:

    ---
    Wacom's Cintiq combines the advantages of an LCD [wacom.com] monitor with the control, comfort, and productivity provided by a Wacom tablet. The LCD monitor is clear, bright and easy to look at. The Cintiq pen has 512 levels of pressure-sensitivity [wacom.com], is cordless, and batteryless and includes both a DuoSwitch and a pressure-sensitive eraser. The Cintiq pen is used directly on the screen offering everyone from designers and illustrators to doctors and professors a powerful and intuitive new way to work on their computers.

    The Cintiq LCD monitor is a true-color active matrix screen providing 16.7 million colors, a resolution of 1024 x 768 and a full 15" diagonal viewing area (the equivalent of a 17" CRT monitor).

    For comfort and convenience, Cintiq features a removable pen holder that can be attached to either side and adjusted to your preferred height and angle. The Cintiq stand allows you to easily adjust the angle of your Cintiq screen between 18 and 73 degrees - and you can even remove the stand to comfortably rest the Cintiq in your lap.
    ---

    It also works with UNIX [204.119.25.129].

  • All these companies from microsoft to phillips keep talking about having a "revolution in handheld computing." Where the hell is it? Can I buy it today? No. We're still 5 years behind where we were when we lost the newton. Grr... I wish these people would put their chips up and let me vote with my wallet.

  • 802.11b? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tswinzig ( 210999 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @11:33AM (#3176755) Journal
    How in the hell are they getting video to the monitor over 802.11b. The article doesn't cover this aspect at all.

    I can just imagine trying to decipher the text in my editor through all the block artifacts left from the MPEG compression they are doing to the video?!

  • IBMs Meta Pad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by XRayX ( 325543 ) <{tobias.boeger} {at} {web.de}> on Sunday March 17, 2002 @11:34AM (#3176759) Homepage Journal
    IBM follows a much more interesting concept when it comes to such hybrid devices. It's called Meta Pad [ibm.com] and is currently developed by IBM Research [ibm.com].
    The MetaPad provides different services in different environments without rebooting.
  • One of my favourite concepts is the PaceBook [paceblade.com]. It's a kind of web pad or panel pc plus wireless keyboard. Both parts ship in a special bag so you can also use the system like a notebook.

    (And it looks as if the device is actually available :)
  • Other than the implementation through 802.11b I don't see any major difference between this remote station and similar ones that have been implemented in the last few years. All are great for a basic remote access terminal, but lack a few critical features such as access speed (for a true high resolution tablet with good response back and forth I would think one would need a pipe larger that 802.11b supplies) ease of use (I notice that the details on rechargability and battery life were sketchy)and a reason for use other than "geek factor" (not that geek factor isn't a fine thing in and of itself). I can't think of one single compelling reason to have one of these things around my house. Well one single compelling reason that would be worth the pricetag (and please factor in a 802.11b hub because they are not, regardless of what you would hear, standard equipment in all young urbanite homes yet).

  • If we all rush out and buy all the 802.11b and Bluetooth gadgets that marketdroids are shrieking about, aren't we going to run out of bandwidth really fast, especially given that 802.11b and Bluetooth share a frequency and don't play nicely together? Sure, we've got used to contending for network resources, but hands up who would swap a wired in IO peripheral for a wireless one that has any sort of lag or stutter, even (or especially) intermittent jerkiness. You're going to spend $$$ on a bunch of super-hardware and then tolerate a worse user experience? Excuse me if I don't put down a deposit right now.

    Huh, I shouldn't speak. I develop voice over IP, and we're still stuck with IPv4 (with no QoS). Our marketdroids actually tell customers that the choppy voice quality is all in their imagination. Funnily enough, they're not buying that, in any sense of the word, and I wouldn't buy this product either unless I could test it thoroughly in a realistic office environment first.

    • First of all, Bluetooth IS 802.11b. Second, there are a few channels on 802.11b, and unless you are running three networks or are in an area with an area-wide network, you shouldn't run out of channels. Each channel has the full 802.11b bandwidth.
      • Bluetooth is *not* 802.11b. 802.11b is the equivalent of wireless ethernet, very high speed, very low latency, and collisions. That collisions thing is an important part. The more people you have on an 802.11b network, the slower it gets. In fact, it gets slower at an exponential rate thanks to the ethernet collision back off algorithm.

        Bluetooth on the other hand isn't near as fast as 802.11b, and is a completely different protocal designed with the sole purpose of being easy to manufacture chips for (so that a bluetooth chip can realisticly be in every device in your home).
        They do both however use frequencies in the 2.4ghz range, though I believe separate parts of that range.
        • Bluetooth IS 802.11b

        You really shouldn't drink and post. 802.11b and Bluetooth use overlapping frequencies, but completely different protocols. Oh, and I forgot to mention cordless telephones, which also use 2.4Ghz.

        • Each channel has the full 802.11b bandwidth

        Oh please take a cluecheck. Bandwidth has been appropriated from radio lingo and used to refer to data rate on a dedicated connection. But we're talking about a radio frequency issue. Sound it out. Band. Width. I'm talking about the limited number of discrete channels you can squeeze around a nominal wavelength, not the data rate per channel. The fact that you can send 11Mb/s on a given channel isn't the point; it's that if (as I suggested) we all go and buy Bluetooth keyboards, mice, PDA's and cellphone headsets, and stick them in the same area as a bunch of 802.11b devices, then your notionally "dedicated" channel is going to receive a lot of cries of "Hey! Listen to me! Listen to me! I'm a 2.4ghz device trying to negotiate a connection! Hey!" from devices futily but repeatedly trying your channel in the hope of getting a connection.

  • Uhm, what about an aquapad [aquapad.org] using Midori Linux [transmeta.com] with an X server on board, eventually with the help of LTSP [ltsp.org] on the server side (not needed since the Aquapad has its software in a CF card), and perhaps using also rdesktop [sourceforge.net] to access Windows Terminal Server, or VNC [att.com] to access regular Windows machines (and the ICA client to access Metaframe)?

    It doesn't seem to be a new concept at all.

  • While it doesn't go into depth, several PC tablets where covered at TechTV [techtv.com] in their article Tablet PCs: The New Ultraportable? [techtv.com] based on their shown of February 7. It would seem to have the links to the major players. Now what I want to is is get my audio/video routed then controlled by such a beast.

  • Ease of use issues. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by buff_pilot ( 221119 )
    I've been experimenting with this type of use at home. I've use both a Panasonic CF-01 and a Fujitsu Stylist 1200, using 802.11b. They are hooked into one of my machines that has a DSL connection. Having wireless web surfing was my prime reason. A few issues that I've experienced:

    Battery life - 802.11b pcmcia cards seem to suck the lifeblood out of batteries. They really drain dry within an hour or two. They also generate a large amount of heat.

    Screen Size - 800x600 would be the bare minimum for surfing. Anything less really is sub optimal on the user experience.

    Keyboard input - In my opinion, this is a huge limitation. No keyboard means using sometype of onscreen keyboards, which really sucks. It's painful to type sentences by tapping on the screen and the "writing" recognition just isn't there yet. The killer app for these wireless handhelds will be someone coming up with a easy and RELIABLE way of entering textual data.

    -jim
  • View the viewsonic product Here [viewsonic.com] (Which I like better IMHO)

    Microsofts video of a family happily using their portable monitor: Here [microsoft.com]

    I the title of the article is a little off. These products are more like simple portable monitors more than anything else. If anything they are glorified WinCE machines.

    Tablets are entire computers that are held and used like the product above, except your actually carrying around the entire device. Microsoft showed some manufacturers products @ Comdex and is even releasing a Tablet Edition of Windows XP [microsoft.com]

  • Invented by philips? (Score:3, Informative)

    by TummyX ( 84871 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @01:07PM (#3177004)

    "Geekstreet.ca has a story on a new concept invented by Philips called Detachable Monitor

    Considering Microsoft already have 'invented' the idea (Mira [microsoft.com]), and that Philips have just announceed [wininformant.com] that it will deliver Mira devices, don't you think the article summary is a bit um...made up?

    Perhaps this article would never have made it to the main page if it had said that Microsoft 'invented' the idea.
    • How about William Gibson? Anyone read All tomorrow's Parties (I think that was the one). Where the guy had the touch screen LCD type monitor to his computer with him when they were on the subway.
      It's been a while, but I think that was how it worked. Anyway, it's just nice to see these things going from sci-fi to reality...
    • I suspect that if tracked, this 'idea' probably goes back to Xerox Parc Labs.
      Not Microsoft, not Philips, not Disney.
  • Yes, this may be considered a troll, but, I'm so sick of all the cry-baby whiners and complainers on slashdot. Most of you just bitch and moan about products and stuff you've never even seen or used.

    I for one *have* used this device and it was incredible. It was connected to a tivo-like box,
    a stereo and a home computing system. You could watch TV or movies or surf the web, from anywhere in the base station range. I listened to mp3's too :)

    So, for all you disparaging this product, wait until you get to try one before you make a fool of yourself in front of all us slashdotters... :D

  • ... that they forgot to put on the tablet, is a retractable can holder to attach a bottle of glassex or mr. clean (whatever your fav brand) and add a wiper (the mercedes benz style, single blade) to the tablet, in order to clean the screen every once in a while. I found myself using my iPaq without a stylus because I lost it on a trip. It's incredible how the screen gets greasy and dirty quickly. It becomes so murky that you end up obtaining an anti-aliasing blur effect.

    PPA, the girl next door.
  • Products already existed that allowed you to put a touch screen to a currently existing monitor, this product right here is just an evolution of those other products.

    Now once they release one for which a Waccom Airbrush works on (They are those Digital Airbrushs that detect tilt and have flow control and every other possible feature. They are Very Nifty Indeed(:D) ) I will be right out to buy it.

    Well right after it drops below $400 or so, hehe. :)

    Still though, I am instantly thinking of the artistic possabilities for this.

    No, wait. The UI possabilities! YA!!!!

    Heh, can I set the machine up so it has five "mouse pointers" going on at once? Hehehe. I have long fingers so I could get some REALLY [i]creative[/i] usage out of this thing, LOL! Would give a whole new meaning to the term multitasking, LOL!

    "Oh yah, hell, I'm just playing Quake3, UT, and Half-Life all at once." :D

    (Ok so my poor left hand would run out of fingers to use to control all of my characters, but hey, hehe. I could still do Defender, Breakout, and Joust all at once. :) )
  • Apple users have been preeching this things praises for months. We all thought this is what Steve had in store for us in the new iMac. Oh well, I guess we can't have all the inovations to ourselves...

    • Re:that was supposed to be the new iMac (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The flat panel display of the iMac is removable.

      It's really quite cool! Go try it yourself. You may have to pull really hard, and don't be afraid to put your foot on the boob to get some leverage.

      Trust me! It works great!
  • I have this Toshiba 486, running Win3.1. It has a little stylus pen which you use to click, draw, write, whatever on the screen. It's got 8mb ram, a 40mb hard drive, a ps-2 connected keyboard, pcmcia sockets, the works. I maximize paint.exe and let my child draw stuff on it.
    Point being, tablet type pc's are hardly new, and hardly as fun as the marketing folks would have you believe. It's just another thing they want to sell you.
  • with a bad hangover.
    My monitor was missing again.
    This happens all the time; its detachable.
  • So, if I'm reading this right, it will run Windows CE, and allow you to do remote desktop stuff with a Windows XP machine via Windows Terminal Server. That sounds really nifty, except I don't want to run Windows XP, ever.
    Perhaps it could also net-boot and run Linux Terminal Server [ltsp.org], instead. Are there any good X Servers for Windows CE? Any GPL'd? I think there is a GPL'd Java [jcraft.com] one that might run on Windows CE.
    I know that VNC [att.com] runs on Windows CE. While VNC is very slow when connecting to a Windows machine, it is quite fast connecting to a Linux machine. From what I understand, it isn't as fast as Cygwin/Xfree [cygwin.com] ,but the install is sooooooooooo much easier.

  • Wacom (Score:1)

    by vanyel ( 28049 )
    It's not wireless, and it's not cheap, but check out the Wacom Cintiq [wacom.com]. I saw one at a Mac store and I'd definitely make do...
  • If this thing connects over 802.11, what happens when there are too many wireless devices? Even wireless has its limits.

    More importantly, what about security? At school, we love changing somebody else's background when they forget to xhost -. We've all heard the stories of 802.11 networks not being secured properly. What's to prevent somebody from taking over the connection, or mirroring what's being displayed? Will people start trying to intercept the entire video signal, rather than just the data packets?

  • Just captured 800x600 Netscape window with slashdot and saved as bmp(rle), gif, jpg and tif (every format have it's flaws; sorry, no png here). Results (assuming we've got 11 Mbit/s):

    Size Extfps
    190490 bmp 7.2
    57274 gif 24.0
    254061 jpg 5.4
    82080 tif 16.8

    24 fps is pretty playable. Gif discards true color but lcd are not good at displaying colors anyway. Translating delta and few tricks with remote GDI, MPEG and 3D will make it absolutely smooth.

  • This is a Microsoft Mira implementation (Score:3, Informative)

    by sheldon ( 2322 ) on Sunday March 17, 2002 @04:29PM (#3177640)
    It's nice to see slashdot.org announcing innovations coming out of Microsoft, but it would be nice if you'd properly attribute them as well.

  • I dunno...something about the pictures on that website do not look real. They look like cg renderings. Notice especially the light sources like the led's.
  • This is one of a new breed of smart displays as exemplified by Microsoft's Mira concept. So basically rather than the 17 - 21 inch flat panel display you would like to have... Instead you get a 12 inch display with a digitizer glued to the surface thus making the contrast suck. Geuss what wonderful protocol the display uses to communicate with your desktop? How about RDP! Can you say slow. Some displays have an additional DVI or VGA connector for direct connection. The original concept was that this would replace your primary desktop display. Then the braniacs realized that no one would want a 12" primary display. DUH! So now they are trying to sell it as a secondary display with a bit more utility.


    Save your money... Buy a laptop with 802.11 It'll be faster. The display will look better. You'll have a keyboard and, someone else in your family will still be able to use your desktop machine at the same time!

  • The only thing new and innovative about this thing is the fact that it's wireless. Wacom has had an incredible little tablet lcd you can sit on your lap or desktop and draw directly on the screen with for years. Pretty good tech, expensive as hell though. I guess they'll have to come up with a new model that's wireless to compete now.
  • i keep seeing these [oportal.com] on ebay. they have what looks like a 486-100mhz with 32 megs of ram. it looks like a lcd monitor without a base, but that's the whole computer. not a bad little device for less than $200 used.
  • I remember back when i was about 6 or 7 (circa 89/90) dad bought home an NEC 'pen' computer that ran 'Microsoft Windows For Pen 1.0' (which was basically windows 3.11 but designed for the touch screen)... It was about the 2cm thick and the size of an A4 hardback book.

    IBM have also been making them for years but they're much bigger and chunkier and heavier... and a *lot* more expensive. When i was doing work experience at their laptop centre here in melbourne one of the ones they sold to telstra (our biggest telco) came back covered in mud (one of their field techs had dropped it in the mud) and they were gonna have to replace just about every part of it (and charge telstra $20k to do so)

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